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Kim-Trump Summit Thread - Fire and Fury Edition
- Thread starter Mar Tuuk
- Start date
Exactly fucking right. But I don't care about the Trump supporters praising him since that's gonna happen no matter what. What pisses me off are the liberals and centrists who should know better buying directly into Trump's narrative and praising him when he did LESS THAN NOTHING.
Oh my god an "open dialogue" or "first step" mean jack shit.
At the beginning and end of the day, Trump was the wrong person for this.
It's rather fascinating.... a month ago South Korean President Moon and Kim Jong Un shook hands, with very little signed on the table as well, and the reaction from the South Korean people and the SK left was overwhelmingly joy and tears.
Here we are with Trump and it's almost the same thing and... it's been poisoned and somehow doesn't look similar at all. Trump poisoned it with his half-brained praise of Kim that goes far beyond what the circumstance called for (which was mere respectful dialogue... not condoning of their entire regime). And he bent over backwards to accommodate them without getting anything on paper. South Korea didn't promise much of them anything last month. I bet Kim is surprised that he got so much from Trump for so little.
Not only that, but the left, who should be open to diplomacy as a superior tool than being a war hawk... they're looking at Trump shaking hands with a dictator and it just doesn't have the optics of good diplomacy and de-escalation of tension. It looks the same as his buddy buddy with Putin and Duterte... and the week after he gave the finger to the G7 allies??
Only Nixon could go to China.
But only Trump could fuck up a good chance of productive dialogue with North Korea.
It's rather fascinating.... a month ago South Korean President Moon and Kim Jong Un shook hands, with very little signed on the table as well, and the reaction from the South Korean people and the SK left was overwhelmingly joy and tears.
Here we are with Trump and it's almost the same thing and... it's been poisoned and somehow doesn't look similar at all. Trump poisoned it with his half-brained praise of Kim that goes far beyond what the circumstance called for (which was mere respectful dialogue... not condoning of their entire regime). And he bent over backwards to accommodate them without getting anything on paper. South Korea didn't promise much of them anything last month. I bet Kim is surprised that he got so much from Trump for so little.
Not only that, but the left, who should be open to diplomacy as a superior tool than being a war hawk... they're looking at Trump shaking hands with a dictator and it just doesn't have the optics of good diplomacy and de-escalation of tension. It looks the same as his buddy buddy with Putin and Duterte... and the week after he gave the finger to the G7 allies??
Only Nixon could go to China.
But only Trump could fuck up a good chance of productive dialogue with North Korea.
Wow this is really playing right into China's hands. Opening up the possibility to remove all US military forces from South Korea?
Don the master negotiator strikes agian.
Don the master negotiator strikes agian.
That's exactly what's going to happen. There will be "negotiations" behind the scenes, but he will say "my people are working on it" forever from now on.
Trump knows he is getting nothing. I mean all you had to listen to was his completely uneducated talk on what Denuclearization is. "Oh it can take as long as 15 years" "Once you pass 20% you can never get nukes again" The man already gave the timeline that allows him to be long dead and no progress while also stating he has no fucking clue what denuclearization is.
Go offline and get help. This Trump obsession isn't healthy.
Dude's a fan of being light on substance. Fuck the details, just say shit.
Ezra always laying things out for the common folk:
"For a long time, US-NK relations were caught in a vise: 1. US wanted what NK wouldn't give: verifiable denuclearization 2. NK wanted what US wouldn't give: 1:1 talks, be treated as a legit power, keep nuclear weapons We were stuck. And then Donald Trump came along."
Entire thread worth reading. Unrolled here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1006574817259094017.html
Basically Trump is great at lowering the bar so much that we see things as a win if we're not at the brink of nuclear war.
"For a long time, US-NK relations were caught in a vise: 1. US wanted what NK wouldn't give: verifiable denuclearization 2. NK wanted what US wouldn't give: 1:1 talks, be treated as a legit power, keep nuclear weapons We were stuck. And then Donald Trump came along."
Entire thread worth reading. Unrolled here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1006574817259094017.html
Basically Trump is great at lowering the bar so much that we see things as a win if we're not at the brink of nuclear war.
This needs to be in the OP of every single NK thread. Its insane that it has to be explained so much when it has all unfolded in front of our very eyes the past 2 years.
Between the US partisan warfare, I occasionally forget that there are people who genuinely support the North Korean regime out there who are championing this whole thing as well. Referring to them as Best Korea in 2018....jeez.
Why is this trash allowed here? Death camp supporters are tolerated?
You missed this gem.
Pro concentration camps is a bold stance.
Guillotine images are mean but we have to hear differing political opinions. If we don't entertain them we might be viewed as partisan, the greatest of sins.
You're really not doing anyone favours. This isn't the first time you've attacked someone over Trump and told them to go get mental help.
People are upset, they're allowed to be
See I'm conflicted - but the way I look at it (possibly naively) is like this:
Is the relationship between USA and NK far better now than it was 6 months back?
Hard to say that it's worse.
People were freaking out about nukes being fired at Guam not long ago - or the prospect of the US doing something unpredictable.
It's not ideal and there is hypocrisy involved (Iran, Trump's handling of the G7 and how he's far colder with staunch allies) but hey.
I'd rather that than the US and NK threatening each other with nukes.
Let's see how it is in 6 months and hope that this time it sticks.
This thread has been an amazing honey pot of Trump cultists and the strategically obtuse. At least my Ignore game is stronk
The question is when this falls apart, like the other dozen times, do you come back to lament giving Un his propaganda coup?
My guess, is no
This really isn't on the same scale as those other dozen times though. I'd never thought we'd be in a situation where the US and NK leader would be meeting in person.
If it backfires, then yes, global leaders should be far more cautious and
Like I said. We'll see.
I'm optimistic because I want it to work. Happy to call it out as shit if it comes to it further down the line though.
I wonder how the South Koreans are going to respond to this.
They were very hopeful about this meeting. They wanted this to happen. They were very proud when their President Moon met with Kim last month.
The reality of Trump doing this looks very different....
They were very hopeful about this meeting. They wanted this to happen. They were very proud when their President Moon met with Kim last month.
The reality of Trump doing this looks very different....
It didn't happen before because no POTUS was dumb enough to give the Norks what they want, for free.
Aside from that singular, dumb-ass difference, how is this time different from the other dozen times?
"Norks" is orientalist and prejudicial, on the order of "ChiComs"
Not really. NK has never offered to speak 1 on 1 with South Korean and American President before.
Obama would have accepted this talk. He wouldn't necessarily have given such a glowing photo op with no concrete deal in place.
That singular dumb ass difference is a projection of your own beliefs.
What do you think the ideal solution to the NK situation would be?
Isolation has worked well hasn't it?
If giving Kim a platform eventually opens up NK then so what?
If you don't know what you are saying, why say it? Jesus fucking christ.
Fun Fact: NK was so desperate to talk to a US president in the Obama years that they invited Bill Clinton to neogotiate a prisoner release...
These are considered exercises. Basically troops playing around in chem gear, hiding in bunkers etc.
What will likely pause is the air exercises.
NK has been making offers to meet with US presidents since Clinton. Got anything else?
Still trying to understand the path of progression here. Plenty of oppressive government have friendly relationships with the US and have for years and years. Where has ever been shown that better relations = better conditions for the people living in that nation. Especially now, when the administration is more than happy to let people like Putin and Duerte do as they please?
Show me then. I am not aware of any time that NK has offered to speak directly to both leaders.
Trump's first US Presidential meeting with an NK leader is following the first meeting between the SK president and the NK president. That is why today is different, and it's not all about Trump being a wild card.
I specifically said South Korean President and American president.
Trump was invited by South Korean President Moon to talk after his first ever meeting with Kim.
This isn't Trump's original action... he is responding to SK's original action. When the two Koreas have brokered their own diplomacy, it's an altogether different thing to say yes to.
Putin and Duerte have done some horrible shit, but they're nowhere near Kim. Read about some of the North Korean internment camps and get back to me.
And you double down lmao
https://www.history.com/news/north-korea-nuclear-deal-bill-clinton-agreed-framework
Do you have any earthly idea of what you're talking about?
It's amazing to watch Trumpers fellate their leader in placating a madman with zero concessions.
This is a shocking level of historical ignorance. SK and NK have met before. You're in here lecturing us on the virtues of diplomacy and you don't even know the basics of the situation over there?
