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When will Halo Infinite be revealed?

  • Yes, before E3

    Votes: 13 11.8%
  • Yes, during E3

    Votes: 20 18.2%
  • Wait, E3 was canceled

    Votes: 32 29.1%
  • Daisy, Daisy...

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • I will not... allow you... to leave. This. PLANET!

    Votes: 14 12.7%
  • Halo's just dad.

    Votes: 29 26.4%

  • Total voters
    110
Status
Not open for further replies.
Jun 7, 2018
472
that's a gross oversimplification of the sentiment.

people say that many of the things added/changed since 3 are bad. this doesn't mean that H3 is perfect (it's very far from it actually) or that there aren't things that could be added to Halo's benefit. it means SAs and ADS aren't examples of such things.

it means that 3 is a better starting point for a good Halo game than anything that came after.
Is it an oversimplification? A vocal minority hate SA's, Sprint, Clamber, Loadouts and ADS. Back in the day they hated equipment also. So I mean, where can they improve other than base movement speed to not make it feel like a nearly 20 year old game?

Personally, I'm ok with Sprint and optional ADS. Not a huge fan of SA's and clamber is ok. But if the next Halo is gigantic, please let me traverse quicker.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Is it an oversimplification? A vocal minority hate SA's, Sprint, Clamber, Loadouts and ADS. Back in the day they hated equipment also. So I mean, where can they improve other than base movement speed to not make it feel like a nearly 20 year old game?

Personally, I'm ok with Sprint and optional ADS. Not a huge fan of SA's and clamber is ok. But if the next Halo is gigantic, please let me traverse quicker.

how can you call it a vocal minority when the game is half as popular now compared to its heyday? A silent majority dislikes where this series has gone. SAs ruining engagement and map design are apart of that.

you don't need a sprint mechanic (gun down, forward-only speed boost) to traverse quicker. how about making the characters default speed fast enough? how about positing vehicles and teleporters in ideal locations? how about having terrain and level design interesting enough that players don't inherently want to blow past it?

needing sprint to traverse a large area is gaming's biggest lie. the dev either 1) put too much space between point A and B, 2) or the character's base speed is too low. just fix one of those two problems... there's no need for an additional mechanic.
 

Deathman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
599
how can you call it a vocal minority when the game is half as popular now compared to its heyday? A silent majority dislikes where this series has gone. SAs ruining engagement and map design are apart of that.

you don't need a sprint mechanic (gun down, forward-only speed boost) to traverse quicker. how about making the characters default speed fast enough? how about positing vehicles and teleporters in ideal locations? how about having terrain and level design interesting enough that players don't inherently want to blow past it?

needing sprint to traverse a large area is gaming's biggest lie. the dev either 1) put too much space between point A and B, 2) or the character's base speed is too low. just fix one of those two problems... there's no need for an additional mechanic.


Heres the thing though, I can sprint if I want to cover ground more quickly in real life, why should I not be able to do this in game?
 

Anton

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
671
Realism is a poor argument in a game. It should be what plays best, not whats the most realistic in game design, especially when the arguments against sprint from a gameplay perspective are a lot stronger than keeping it in
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,188
If we go by realism route, shotguns should have ranges in excess of 100 meters, Warthog's should look like proper military jeeps with reasonable center of balance (instead of as high as it is without V-hull), the plasma weapons wouldn't work at all, the Elite mouths would be different, etc. etc.
Realism is really poor argument in most games, outside simulation games. Sprint falls in neither category, because of the effects it has on other things in game (eg requiring larger maps, probably reducing base movement speed, etc.).

Spartans don't need sprint from realism POV anyway really. Their endurance and strength along with their powered armor allows them to maintain high speed (for a normal human) for a long, long time. There is little need for sprint in such circumstances.
 

DemonCarnotaur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,229
NYC
Realism is a poor argument in a game. It should be what plays best, not whats the most realistic in game design, especially when the arguments against sprint from a gameplay perspective are a lot stronger than keeping it in
I think realism can be twofold: it's not what is real to our world, but what feels real and right to the player and the world it's set within.

Sometimes I have noticed people don't really want realism when they ask for it, but rather they find a weapons actions not as intuitive as they expect. This can even come down to visual depiction of feedback.
 
Jun 7, 2018
472
I think realism can be twofold: it's not what is real to our world, but what feels real and right to the player and the world it's set within.

Sometimes I have noticed people don't really want realism when they ask for it, but rather they find a weapons actions not as intuitive as they expect. This can even come down to visual depiction of feedback.

I agree, which is why I welcome ADS and Sprint. Playing Halo 3 I've found myself trying to Sprint and trying to aim. It's second nature now due to the fact that every other game uses these mechanics and are considered default. Here's the beauty about ADS in Halo 5, it doesn't matter if you use it, the guns play the same way zoomed in or not. So it's really up to you. The same can't be said about sprint, but I would like to have this ability.
 

Anton

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
671
If you really want the feeling of going faster just increase the base movement speed and FOV, 3 feels so slow because of the incredibly narrow FOV despite the movement speed being the same as CE and 2
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
If anything, spartan charge needs to go. I think that is a 99% thing that everyone can agree on lol.

Everything else needs tweaks for better implementation that will also really depend on map size too i guess....

(keep ground pound, i love pounding)
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,340
I too like to move fast. So we should act like supersoldiers and sprint with our guns up. In any direction. You could call it "increased movement speed."
Far as I know, even Spartan II's are still humans with human body kinematics. A spartan running with sprinter's form is going to be faster than one running with a gun shouldered and aiming. Stupid ass argument anyway. Sprint should be in the game because it's fun, works well mechanically, and makes you feel like a badass. If they can maintain the boost-slide-jump mechanics without sprint it could possibly be done as well as it is in Halo 5.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Heres the thing though, I can sprint if I want to cover ground more quickly in real life, why should I not be able to do this in game?

you can go prone in real life if you want to get lower.

you can blind fire around corners in real life if you want to shoot from behind cover.

you can carry more than two weapons in real life.

in real life bullets can travel through walls

should we throw all that in too?

Halo isn't a sim. realism shouldn't be the basis for the inclusion of a mechanic. sprint negatively effects the games balance and map design so it shouldn't be in. if Spartans are too slow, just make them faster... there is no need for an extra mechanic.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
The realism argument fails when you realise Spartans can flip a 50 ton tank but are absolutely helpless when it comes to the SMG's recoil.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
I think realism can be twofold: it's not what is real to our world, but what feels real and right to the player and the world it's set within.

Sometimes I have noticed people don't really want realism when they ask for it, but rather they find a weapons actions not as intuitive as they expect. This can even come down to visual depiction of feedback.

this is true.

but it's 100% possible to have a visual depiction of a Spartan's speed without removing the player's ability to shoot.

the fact that maximum move speed is tied to a single direction and an inability to shoot is completely arbitrary and has no logical place in a game with arena roots.

the dev can make it appear that Spartans are sprinting and make it feel like Spartan's are sprinting, without all the baggage that comes with the sprint mechanic.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
17,386
I think Fallout 4 handled the balance of movement speed and sprint well for an open-world setting. Players still maintained a fast base movement speed comparable to Fallout 3 or New Vegas, but added a Sprint function that tied into the VATS mode, which is not necessarily essential, but still a staple of Fallout's gameplay. Level design was not impacted by Sprint this way since players would want to save their AP to use in VATS, keeping levels tights and manageable without needing to use Sprint; I rarely Sprint anyway when playing Fallout 4. If Halo Infinite were to keep some variation of Halo 5's enhanced mobility mechanic, I think it would be wise to tie Sprint to the other Thruster-based abilities in a similar fashion. So when traversing the possible "open-world" of Infinite, players could utilize Sprint during periods of downtime, but then save the "AP" for combat encounters that do don't factor in Sprint, since players won't be using it.

The multiplayer competent could work in a similar fashion if Sprint even remains in there; an argument could be made since that Arena consists of purely arena-based maps, there would be no need to incorporate Sprint there since movement speeds and Thrust would be more than enough to suffice in the tighter space. It could be incorporated in bigger modes like BTB or Warzone (if that even returns), as well as if the open-world becomes a shared space. And even if Sprint were to remain in Arena, it's effects would be seriously reduced to the point where it becomes an even riskier option for such tight combat. For example, if a player decides to sprint around the map, then they will drain their "AP," making them more vulnerable in a gunfight since they will not be able to use their Thrusters as much, if even at all. And if they are losing a gunfight and have barely or no "AP" left, then escaping will not be a viable option unless they can get away naturally and survive long enough to charge their "AP" to make a successful getaway. Or let's say the player is hit by a weapon that drops their shields completely before they use any of their "AP" like the Sniper Rifle. The player will then be able to use it as a last resort "panic button" and use Sprint as a tradeoff mechanic to find cover faster so they can wait to recharge their shields like they would have to in Halo 5, assuming they don't get killed while fleeing by a follow up shot. Also, maybe EMP-based weapons like the Plasma Pistol could drain "AP" as well, and if that proves to be too OP then a new weapon could even be made that can drain "AP" somehow.

Overall, I think that this would be the best way to implement Sprint because it fits the mechanic into the Halo sandbox without effecting anything, but instead improving one of the drawback of some of Halo's design issues when spaces get to large without any vehicles around, such as in a BTB map like Blood Gulch or a mission like Assault on the Control Room. However, tying Sprint to Thrusters via an AP-like system will create a greater consequence for this action, so while it becomes viable in situations where the level design does not allow the player to engage in combat effectively or even at all (such as just roaming around), Sprint becomes the best ability to commit your "AP" to since it will be of actual use, but when combat picks up in close quarters, that "AP" will need to be used elsewhere. Sure, there will be some times where Sprint will still be an annoying feature, like if a player actually manages to escapes fair fight with it somehow, or if a player with longer-ranged weaponry does not need to use Thrusters as much and can therefore reposition themselves faster with Sprint (although some people might actually like that element to balancing the abilities with gunplay), but overall it will be much more tastefully implemented than in Reach, 4, or 5.
 
Jun 7, 2018
472
I feel like Halo should have modern game mechanics. Upping the movement speed only makes the levels bigger and turns it into DOOM/Quake. That's not what I want from Halo, that's what I want for DOOM/Quake. Halo is about fancy gunplay. Once you are in a gun fight only one person is leaving anyway. Sprint or no Sprint. There is no harm in keeping it.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
I think Fallout 4 handled the balance of movement speed and sprint well for an open-world setting. Players still maintained a fast base movement speed comparable to Fallout 3 or New Vegas, but added a Sprint function that tied into the VATS mode, which is not necessarily essential, but still a staple of Fallout's gameplay. Level design was not impacted by Sprint this way since players would want to save their AP to use in VATS, keeping levels tights and manageable without needing to use Sprint; I rarely Sprint anyway when playing Fallout 4. If Halo Infinite were to keep some variation of Halo 5's enhanced mobility mechanic, I think it would be wise to tie Sprint to the other Thruster-based abilities in a similar fashion. So when traversing the possible "open-world" of Infinite, players could utilize Sprint during periods of downtime, but then save the "AP" for combat encounters that do don't factor in Sprint, since players won't be using it.

The multiplayer competent could work in a similar fashion if Sprint even remains in there; an argument could be made since that Arena consists of purely arena-based maps, there would be no need to incorporate Sprint there since movement speeds and Thrust would be more than enough to suffice in the tighter space. It could be incorporated in bigger modes like BTB or Warzone (if that even returns), as well as if the open-world becomes a shared space. And even if Sprint were to remain in Arena, it's effects would be seriously reduced to the point where it becomes an even riskier option for such tight combat. For example, if a player decides to sprint around the map, then they will drain their "AP," making them more vulnerable in a gunfight since they will not be able to use their Thrusters as much, if even at all. And if they are losing a gunfight and have barely or no "AP" left, then escaping will not be a viable option unless they can get away naturally and survive long enough to charge their "AP" to make a successful getaway. Or let's say the player is hit by a weapon that drops their shields completely before they use any of their "AP" like the Sniper Rifle. The player will then be able to use it as a last resort "panic button" and use Sprint as a tradeoff mechanic to find cover faster so they can wait to recharge their shields like they would have to in Halo 5, assuming they don't get killed while fleeing by a follow up shot. Also, maybe EMP-based weapons like the Plasma Pistol could drain "AP" as well, and if that proves to be too OP then a new weapon could even be made that can drain "AP" somehow.

Overall, I think that this would be the best way to implement Sprint because it fits the mechanic into the Halo sandbox without effecting anything, but instead improving one of the drawback of some of Halo's design issues when spaces get to large without any vehicles around, such as in a BTB map like Blood Gulch or a mission like Assault on the Control Room. However, tying Sprint to Thrusters via an AP-like system will create a greater consequence for this action, so while it becomes viable in situations where the level design does not allow the player to engage in combat effectively or even at all (such as just roaming around), Sprint becomes the best ability to commit your "AP" to since it will be of actual use, but when combat picks up in close quarters, that "AP" will need to be used elsewhere. Sure, there will be some times where Sprint will still be an annoying feature, like if a player actually manages to escapes fair fight with it somehow, or if a player with longer-ranged weaponry does not need to use Thrusters as much and can therefore reposition themselves faster with Sprint (although some people might actually like that element to balancing the abilities with gunplay), but overall it will be much more tastefully implemented than in Reach, 4, or 5.

i just feel like we need to be simplifying and streamlining rarther than adding another layer of complexity. i just don't see why movement needs to be another limited resource the player must manage.

if people absolutely must have a sprint-state, why not just have the animation and sound effects kick in after pressing forward long enough to accelerate to BMS, but w/o losing the gun?
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Could be weird feedback effect, i think, especially since it would not functionally do anything. Could be confusing.

Maybe, I don't think it would be confusing though.

It would have a function. Traditionally, when you move the joystick completely forward, you don't instantly hit max speed. There's an acceleration period. The animation would indicate you've reached top speed, which could enable slide, have implications for making jumps and perhaps implications for melee damage (if they invoke CE).

This similar to how mirrors edge works, except you can shoot at top speed. There's no sprint button, sprint is BMS.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,188
Maybe, I don't think it would though.

It would have a function. Traditionally, you move the joystick, you don't instantly hit max speed. There's an acceleration period. The animation would indicate you've reached top speed, which could enable slide, have implications for making jumps and even melee damage (if they invoke CE).

Similar to how mirrors edge works.
Ah, i see. Yes, that could work. Fine line between subtle but effective effect, and something overt an annoying, Halo is not a parkour game focused on just running like Mirror's Edge after all.
Also completely forgot Halo 5 has slide, i don't think i ever used it, for whatever reason, possibly because i tend to play with toggle crouch.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
Ah, i see. Yes, that could work. Fine line between subtle but effective effect, and something overt an annoying, Halo is not a parkour game focused on just running like Mirror's Edge after all.
Also completely forgot Halo 5 has slide, i don't think i ever used it, for whatever reason, possibly because i tend to play with toggle crouch.

Halo's not parkour game, but we spend A LOT of time running. The only reason we have 'sprint' is to make people feel like they are running, because FOV hasn't allowed player to perceive BMS as fast.

Would it be annoying to see some arm waving that doesn't require a button press? I doubt it. But since it wouldn't be accompanied with an actual boost of max speed, players who don't like the animation could turn it off w/o having any gameplay downsides.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,188
I was just thinking about the effect on Mirror's Edge. Kind of white screen edge blur or something like that, maybe? Didn't really like it. Indicating you're at max speed is kinda tricky, it shouldn't be distracting, or annoying. Not to mention it most certainly should've be silly, the character starting to wave arms every time you move at max speed would be silly.

As for FOV, not increasing at least a bit doesn't make much sense. Or, well, doesn't seem to make sense. Would it have much effect on performance? Either way, don't think sprint is really here because of FOV.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
I was just thinking about the effect on Mirror's Edge. Kind of white screen edge blur or something like that, maybe? Didn't really like it. Indicating you're at max speed is kinda tricky, it shouldn't be distracting, or annoying. Not to mention it most certainly should've be silly, the character starting to wave arms every time you move at max speed would be silly.

As for FOV, not increasing at least a bit doesn't make much sense. Or, well, doesn't seem to make sense. Would it have much effect on performance? Either way, don't think sprint is really here because of FOV.

Mirrors edge sprint animation is just arms waving + blurry white lines on the edges.... its very similar to halo 5s, except 5's lines aren't blurry.

In my estimation, the sprint animation would come into play after some time at max speed w/o shooting or being shot. I don't think arms would be waving any more frequently than they do now, tbh.

Sprint isn't here BECAUSE FoV. It's here because Halo felt slow while other shooters felt fast, and Bungie and 343 though sprint was a good remedy, core design be famed. FoV is the reason Halo felt slow in the first place. It really shouldn't have much impact on performance, but it would impact how we perceive dodgeable projectiles. And there is consideration for distance from TV.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
3,188
Well, limited FOV increase should maintain feel of being able to dodge while making the game feel faster. ODST has wider FOV than Halo 3 and it doesn't feel harder to dodge things there while feeling way better.
Plus, if you feel you move faster, i figure you also feel you can more try to dodge faster-looking projectiles as well...

Gotta say even relatively small FOV increase has pretty large effect on how fast a game feels. I set FOV on Quake Champions to 110 as i figured more might make me nauseous. Eventually i moved it to 120, no negative effects fortunately but man, the game felt even faster (and better) than before.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
I like sprint, indifferent on scope, like thrust, like ground pound, find stabilizers annoying, find clamber weird to this day. Take that!

Y'all need to go back to your old avatars because if all these people are running around with Chief helmets I'm just going to make you the same person in my head.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,386
i just feel like we need to be simplifying and streamlining rarther than adding another layer of complexity. i just don't see why movement needs to be another limited resource the player must manage.

if people absolutely must have a sprint-state, why not just have the animation and sound effects kick in after pressing forward long enough to accelerate to BMS, but w/o losing the gun?
I think my proposed system is decently streamlined, it was understandable enough for Fallout 4 players to wrap their heads around. Keep in mind that sprint-state movement would be already on top off a faster base speed - as everyone here would like to see - which if regulated to a stamina meter shared with thrust - an aspect of Halo 5 that many seemed to enjoy - would allow for sparse use in Arena, especially if paired with non-diluted maps.

With your system, why would someone design a game where a player must accelerate to BMS? That sounds like it would be annoying for veterans, confusing for newcomers, and overall pointless. Sprint would be perishable, whereas this is constant. The same argument goes for offering two speed settings, one maybe Halo 3 speed and the other CE speed; whats the point if everyone is going to be relying on the maximum speed? Also, if a even faster speed is placed on top, maps would probably stil end up diluted. The only system that I could see working alternative to Sprint would be if a Half-Life 2's auxiliary system was added to some capacity with your ideas for visual and audio queue.
Y'all need to go back to your old avatars because if all these people are running around with Chief helmets I'm just going to make you the same person in my head.
Never.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
3,188
With your system, why would someone design a game where a player must accelerate to BMS?
Note that this already happens. Partially because analogue input, meaning no matter you do you can't start at full speed. I was surprised to learn even Quake Champions has acceleration despite it being on PC (so digital input), i would imagine this applies to Halo PC and Halo 2 Vista as well, along with great many other shooters.

EDIT Pretty sure Trup doesn't mean there should be slower or longer acceleration, just that there's indication when full speed has been reached and that that enables sliding.

EDIT avatars, since Fuchsdh doesn't care for our Chief helmets, how about we start using his avatar? Bunch of monitors...
 

SlightlyLive

QA
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
756
Northern Ireland
I feel like Halo should have modern game mechanics. Upping the movement speed only makes the levels bigger and turns it into DOOM/Quake. That's not what I want from Halo, that's what I want for DOOM/Quake. Halo is about fancy gunplay. Once you are in a gun fight only one person is leaving anyway. Sprint or no Sprint. There is no harm in keeping it.

I think Halo should pioneer features and gameplay again. Push niche concepts to the mainstream and pull the gaming industry and console multiplayer kicking and screaming into the future.

Like it used to.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,386
Note that this already happens. Partially because analogue input, meaning no matter you do you can't start at full speed. I was surprised to learn even Quake Champions has acceleration despite it being on PC (so digital input), i would imagine this applies to Halo PC and Halo 2 Vista as well, along with great many other shooters.

EDIT Pretty sure Trup doesn't mean there should be slower or longer acceleration, just that there's indication when full speed has been reached and that that enables sliding.

EDIT avatars, since Fuchsdh doesn't care for our Chief helmets, how about we start using his avatar? Bunch of monitors...
Quake is an incredibly fast game, so acceleration makes sense when moving at that high of a speed, sort of like accelerating a sports car. You're not a sports car in Halo, and never have been; some people would not like Halo back in the day because they saw it as a slower Quake. Halo has had sprint in it for the last 8 years, and when considering that Halo is Xbox's flagship title, it may not be going anywhere, especially when moving into an open-world setting and trying to take the game in a new direction. Bungie Halo is sadly dead, but that doesn't mean there can't be creative ways of preserving the core gameplay.
 

Deleted member 2507

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
3,188
I was surprised because i had assume there'd be no acceleration due to input method. Though in retrospect switching strafing direction has never been instant in most shooters i've played, PC or otherwise, games with truly weightless or inertialess characters aren't common perhaps, so i shouldn't have made that assumption..

Ironically sprint should not be in Halo for the same reason you lay out, it ain't a sports car. Sprint is a high-gear, we don't need that.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,390
I think my proposed system is decently streamlined, it was understandable enough for Fallout 4 players to wrap their heads around. Keep in mind that sprint-state movement would be already on top off a faster base speed - as everyone here would like to see - which if regulated to a stamina meter shared with thrust - an aspect of Halo 5 that many seemed to enjoy - would allow for sparse use in Arena, especially if paired with non-diluted maps.

With your system, why would someone design a game where a player must accelerate to BMS? That sounds like it would be annoying for veterans, confusing for newcomers, and overall pointless. Sprint would be perishable, whereas this is constant. The same argument goes for offering two speed settings, one maybe Halo 3 speed and the other CE speed; whats the point if everyone is going to be relying on the maximum speed? Also, if a even faster speed is placed on top, maps would probably stil end up diluted. The only system that I could see working alternative to Sprint would be if a Half-Life 2's auxiliary system was added to some capacity with your ideas for visual and audio queue.

Never.

you have to accelerate to BMS in every halo game.

Note that this already happens. Partially because analogue input, meaning no matter you do you can't start at full speed. I was surprised to learn even Quake Champions has acceleration despite it being on PC (so digital input), i would imagine this applies to Halo PC and Halo 2 Vista as well, along with great many other shooters.

EDIT Pretty sure Trup doesn't mean there should be slower or longer acceleration, just that there's indication when full speed has been reached and that that enables sliding.

correct on both accounts

I feel like Halo should have modern game mechanics. Upping the movement speed only makes the levels bigger and turns it into DOOM/Quake. That's not what I want from Halo, that's what I want for DOOM/Quake. Halo is about fancy gunplay. Once you are in a gun fight only one person is leaving anyway. Sprint or no Sprint. There is no harm in keeping it.

this is just backwards. Sprint makes levels bigger, and weapons more rangey - both of which negatively impact the game when played at BMS (which is anytime guns are being used). thus, when not sprinting, the player is, relatively, moving slower than in a game that isn't built around sprint.

upping BMS means that map size and weapon effective weapon range are, relatively, unchanged. the difference is that more geo passes the camera with each movement, creating a higher sense of speed

of course the exact same effect can be had by simply increasing the FoV (which is why h2 feels much faster than h3 despite bms being the same)
 
Last edited:

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
I don't think this "flaw" is "surprisingly noticeable, considering the reception to ADS is far more pronounced and negative than any complaints about classic zoom glitchiness have ever been. The ends certainly don't seem to justify the means.

I seriously doubt they went with ADS view so they can have smoother transitions. They did it because they felt FPS players expect the feature, and would positively respond to it. Also to pad the req system.



For me, ADS makes aiming MORE jarring because you have almost 50% less screen space thanks to the scopes and weapon profiles. Also, descoping feels more appropriate with the cam approach.

It's interesting to paint placating a desire to customize zoom options as something good. imo, that runs counter to what makes Halo, Halo. If gun your using zooms too far for your current scenario, then You should be hip firing, or using a different weapon.

I'm not saying that ADS was invented by 343 to solve this problem. I'm saying that every single shooter used to have something like this problem and ADS was invented to solve it. And classic halo feels outdated in this respect because it never found an alternative solution or seemed to acknowledge the issue.

Having things cover parts of your vision that you'd expect to cover your vision is jarring, yes, but in a logical way. I think you're confusing my points though, because what I referred to as "jarring" was the idea of a jump in perspective to a new camera feed, not classic halo zoom, which is perfectly smooth but at the cost of a feeling of real physicality.

When you see your arms and gun wink out of existence, they feel artificial, intangible, abstract representations of a concept. you don't believe that they still exist, holding the gun at some point behind your field of view. you feel like you're a floating gun attatched to some wispy props.

What I'm doing here is arguing towards two sources: the ADS-hating community and the logic behind ADS-inclusion in a game: the player psychology behind its popularity.

The solution isn't to go back to the classic style, warts and all, it's to think of a new way to display this concept that is internally consistent and achieves the same larger goals to some degree.
 

FUNKNOWN iXi

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,608
no. fuck ADS and sprint. end of story, want that shit, play a different game.
Dude, you really need to...
chill-out.jpg
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,386
While a classic, BMS based Halo may still work for 4v4 Halo, it's clear the franchise is moving forward in a different direction with Halo Infinite. If the campaign is open world, that's definitely going to change the way movement is incorporated into the game, and would clearly not mesh well with classic Halo movement. Even the simplicity that it would bring is most likely no longer that appealing to newer audiences; I'm not saying this means Halo has to curve to adopt trends, but old school Halo is just not a viable formula for the flagship FPS franchise of Xbox. While stylistic choices like art style or having the game be located on a Halo Ring can be seen as going backwards, gameplay does not work in that way. 343i is rebranding, and moving backwards gameplay-wise wouldn't make much sense for them. I'd love to see a classic Halo game in line with the original trilogy, but that's not a reasonable expectation to have for the franchise anymore, and I think anyone expecting that for Infinite is setting themselves up for disappointment. If 343i can find a functional, appealing, and fun way to address the problems that sprint brings and remove it then great, but I'm trying to think realistically here instead of ideally.
 

Dokkaebi G0SU

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,922
if there are open hubs.. we are going to need warthogs everywhere.
i guess that is a thing because in the actual trailer, MC is driving a warthog, drove towards a smoke signal, found marines and is now taking them somewhere they need to be dropped off at i suppose.

SO GET READY TO DRIVE EVERYWHERE IN WARTHOG FASHION BOYZZZZ!!!

mission - Go to X to investigate lead
*on the way to mission, optional quest pops up with smoke signal from marines

boom
 

Deleted member 2507

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Oct 25, 2017
3,188
No need for sprint with vehicles.
If, hypothetically, there are "mission areas", they can be designed to be small and tight (when they are not vehicle areas) so that there is little point in sprint. Longer distances you travel with vehicles.

Amusingly this can work the other way around: In Skyrim, i never bothered with the horse because it was too slow and instead i sprinted everywhere (and cursed the poor implementation of it, control issues), drinking stamina potions or using stamina food as necessary. Having both in the game (along with fast travel) wasn't really useful.
 

Fahzzy

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Jan 21, 2018
1,079
Mirrors edge sprint animation is just arms waving + blurry white lines on the edges.... its very similar to halo 5s, except 5's lines aren't blurry.

In my estimation, the sprint animation would come into play after some time at max speed w/o shooting or being shot. I don't think arms would be waving any more frequently than they do now, tbh.

Sprint isn't here BECAUSE FoV. It's here because Halo felt slow while other shooters felt fast, and Bungie and 343 though sprint was a good remedy, core design be famed. FoV is the reason Halo felt slow in the first place. It really shouldn't have much impact on performance, but it would impact how we perceive dodgeable projectiles. And there is consideration for distance from TV.

FOV directly affecting sense of speed is hugely understated in these discussions.

I played Halo CE on PC with a custom FOV and it felt like Chief was flying. This was achieved without a ridiculous looking FOV too.
 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,817
As someone mentioned earlier, you want a faster game just up the FOV. ODST BMS is slower than any other halo and it feels faster than any of them than H1 and H5. FOV does a LOT.

You can't change the BMS to be faster because you then need to change EVERY value in the game to compensate. AI accuracy and leading, vehicle speeds, your kill times will differ, your magnetism needs to be re adjusted. It would be a mess.
 

Deleted member 2507

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Well, given that Infinite has entirely new engine, i don't think existing values matter much. Everything will likely be rebuild anyway. So, faster base movement should be possible without it affecting things too much.
Undoubtedly it is problematic if everything's done already. But for something new that's being built anyway?
 

Masterz1337

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Oct 25, 2017
4,817
Ideally, they'd be looking at the tags and fields and structures of the systems in the Halo series and be transplanting that into the new engine. I can't see why they wouldn't, as Halo has some very specific ways the AI functions that is vital to how they work and function (at least on the covenant side). Regardless, you'd still want shield timers and aiming to feel the same as well as projectile speed so the "dance" of halo is retained, and feeling like Halo.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,386
No need for sprint with vehicles.
If, hypothetically, there are "mission areas", they can be designed to be small and tight (when they are not vehicle areas) so that there is little point in sprint. Longer distances you travel with vehicles.

Amusingly this can work the other way around: In Skyrim, i never bothered with the horse because it was too slow and instead i sprinted everywhere (and cursed the poor implementation of it, control issues), drinking stamina potions or using stamina food as necessary. Having both in the game (along with fast travel) wasn't really useful.

Well yes, the game is clearly going to be built to accommodate vehicles in open spaces, most likely with emergent gameplay occurring from between mission zones in open play spaces where both vehicles and enemies can roam for you and your friends to shoot at with whatever you got. However, what if your vehicle is destroyed? What is you don't have enough of whatever is required to call in a new vehicle? What if you're in a forested area that is not vehicle friendly when off the beaten path? There are many opportunities where the average player would want sprint to be able to move faster instead of being stuck in a situation where they have to travel a long distance with BMS, which will make it feel slow and tedious no matter what. Sprint, as implemented as I suggested it, would help reduce this in these situations, while allowing combat zones (like a beam emitter, human ruins, or a Forerunner crypt) to not require, and even discourage, the use of sprint because the BMS will be more than adequate for handling the close quarters.

Think about the mission Silent Cartographer, but in the style of what we think Halo Infinite will be. You drop on the beach with some Marines, secure a DZ for a Warthog, and get ready to explore the island. But whoops, looks like you forgot about that Grunt with the Fuel Rod Gun and he destroys your only Warthog. Now you need to traverse the entire island's exterior on foot. Most players would want sprint here so they could get to their objective faster due to the long distances between objectives. Now when you actually get to those objectives, the interior of the island is pretty right when it comes to place spaces and corridors, which would not be optimal for sprint especially if you need to manage it with thrusters in mind. The inverse would also work in the exterior, where at longer ranges, sprint would be more useful than thrusters since the gameplay is less fast. I think this same philosophy would apply to multiplayer. On a map like Midship, would the player be more likely to use thrusters or sprint? Obviously it's situational, but if they sprint into combat without thinking about needing to thrust later, they'll be at an obvious disadvantage, and therefore less likely to do that in the future, making combat less sprint based in 4v4 scenarios. However, move that situation to Blood Gulch in 8v8 and you've got a much different scenario. Let's say you didn't get a sniper and your teammates have taken all the vehicles, so all you can really do is pop through that teleporter and hope you don't get obliterated in the open spaces where everyone is fighting. You might not need thrusters here, but sprint would be pretty damn useful for traversal purposes, not escape purposes. I would be fine with sprint if it worked out like this, and I'm sure it would make the mechanic more bearable for older fans, while also pleasing the huge population of gamers who expect sprint in games like this, an audience that has clearly been important to 343i.
 

Deleted member 2507

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Oct 25, 2017
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If the game's so fucking big it needs sprint, even just situationally, then it is too big. Halo ain't an RPG or open world survival or whatever else where it sprint might make sense thematically or gameplay-wise. It shouldn't be made so big as to require sprint.
Large, open areas sound good for Halo. The Silent Cartographer is really good map and template for such things. But it wasn't too big, you can run around the map fast enough lack of sprint isn't big deal. So, make that "areas that feel big, without necessarily being big".
For example, Morrowind is, as open worlds game go, actually deceptive in its size. It feels big, but that is partially because you can't take direct path between places easily (plus your average character starts with awfully low speed) and partially because the limited draw distance makes it feel bigger. Perception and design matter, making just a large play area for sake of it is rarely a good idea, smaller and smarter is better.

If Infinite has open world and vehicles for traversal, there will be likely either a teleport/fast travel option, or some other guaranteed method of getting new vehicle if you lose old one anyway. Perhaps most immersive (if annoying) way for that to happen is for an enemy patrol just happen to stumble upon you with a transport that they inevitably abandon to attack you on foot.
At least that's how i'd do it if masses need to be pleased, though personally i'd prefer more hardcore system where you can fuck yourself over if you end up losing your transportation.
 
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