New Research Shows a Vast Majority of Cis People Won't Date Trans People

Burai · Jun 21, 2018

Bullshit. This is like saying gay people are sexist because they won't date women.

You can't equate sexual preference with acceptance. We all "discriminate" due to personal preference. From the way people look, their social mobility, their income, to the things they say we naturally dismiss potential partners for a whole host of legitimate reasons.

There are a huge number of legitimate reasons why you might not want to date a trans person; they can't naturally conceive children for a start which is a genuinely massive barrier for people when thinking further ahead about a life-long relationship.

Robin · Jun 21, 2018

Siggy-P said:
Is this reffering to pre or post op?

Cus if it's pre-op the unfortunate reality is that, no matter how socially accepting someone is, if they don't like a particular type of genital they're not likely to make an exception.

the selections were non descriptive, so if a participant was not selecting transwoman, transman, or non binary because of genitals, they would be making a presumption.

Aang's_Bae · Jun 21, 2018

Brock Reiher said:
I think it may be a bigger factor than the other two though, definitely more than religion. Bisexual people had the highest acceptance for a reason. Everyone else, gay or straight, is thinking about genetalia.

Yep. Doesn't matter how masc or fem you look when undies are dropped. Many people consider playing with their partner's genitalia as an important part of their sexual experience. People have divorced perfectly compatible spouses over less.

KHarvey16 · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
People's minds are closed because of a bigoted society telling them that some things are desirable and some are not. Nobody is born thinking "I would never date a black person" for instance but a ton of people would probably say that. And if you are cognizant of that you can choose to work at reprogramming yourself to not be closed-minded. Most people won't do the work because their prejudices are ingrained in them and they don't want to do the work to change.

Do you believe any person can train themselves to be ok dating any other person? Male, female, tall, short, white, black, red head, brunette?

Deleted member 176 · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
People's minds are closed because of a bigoted society telling them that some things are desirable and some are not. Nobody is born thinking "I would never date a black person" for instance but a ton of people would probably say that. And if you are cognizant of that you can choose to work at reprogramming yourself to not be closed-minded. Most people won't do the work because their prejudices are ingrained in them and they don't want to do the work to change.

Again, this is akin to calling anyone who isn't pansexual close minded. Which you're free to do, but I don't think a lot of people would agree.

Chamberlin · Jun 21, 2018

Someone needs to tell all these "because I want kids" people about adoption.

I think if not for bigotry and especially ignorance, these numbers would be a lot higher, but there will still ultimately be innocent sexual preference. To fault people for that is like faulting gay people for not being straight. This sounds like a corny liberal parody but I feel privileged to have had several cool trans friends because it's taught me a lot about it. Even being totally in favor of trans rights and recognition before, there was still a lot I didn't pick up on or really understand before I met them and I probably had some slight hold onto stereotypes too. My point is that I think even just a positive friendship with an openly trans person would, on top of making many people more understanding and accepting, also make them more likely to consider dating a trans person.

Squiggely · Jun 21, 2018

Vibri said:
Yeah it's pretty disingenuous to call personal sexual preference "discrimination".

Concur, it's a loaded statement.

I'm heterosexual but me not wanting to chose a partner of another sexual orientation due to my own perference seems pretty off to me.

Interested Observer · Jun 21, 2018

Yasuke said:
Gotta admit, I don't get the "well, I want kids argument"; I always found that a bit of a weird defense. How many people are you interviewing mid-date about their ability to reproduce? Not being able to bear children isn't just a trans thing, after all. I guess I find it hard to believe a lot of the people who claim that as their reasoning would actually leave a relationship with a cis person if they ended up not being able to reproduce.

Ok so leaving trans people aside for a moment, how does this not extend to everyone who doesn't date people of the same gender as them?

SugarNoodles · Jun 21, 2018

Interested Observer said:
Ok so leaving trans people aside for a moment, how does this not extend to everyone who doesn't date people of the same gender as them?

Trans woman = woman
Man =/= woman

RedMercury · Jun 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
Do you believe any person can train themselves to be ok dating any other person? Male, female, tall, short, white, black, red head, brunette?

Yep, sure do, KHarvey.

SneakersSO · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
People's minds are closed because of a bigoted society telling them that some things are desirable and some are not. Nobody is born thinking "I would never date a black person" for instance but a ton of people would probably say that. And if you are cognizant of that you can choose to work at reprogramming yourself to not be closed-minded. Most people won't do the work because their prejudices are ingrained in them and they don't want to do the work to change.

The bolded is a slippery slope, logically speaking - you can't say people aren't born with a set of sexual preferences or inclinations, and then also claim that homosexuals are simply 'born that way' and can't choose who they love.

NoRéN · Jun 21, 2018

SneakersSO said:
I wouldn't equate sexual preference to social acceptance. I have absolutely nothing against transpeople; I want them to have every major freedom & right a person can have. However, for my own personal sexual preference, I wouldn't want to date someone who was.

At a certain point, an individual's persons sexual preference is theirs to do with as they please while also not being labelled a transphobe or what-have-you.

Damn, hell of an excellent post.

Antiwhippy · Jun 21, 2018

Yasuke said:
Gotta admit, I don't get the "well, I want kids argument"; I always found that a bit of a weird defense. How many people are you interviewing mid-date about their ability to reproduce? Not being able to bear children isn't just a trans thing, after all. I guess I find it hard to believe a lot of the people who claim that as their reasoning would actually leave a relationship with a cis person if they ended up not being able to reproduce.

I mean having kids is a make or break thing for relationships.

Yasuke · Jun 21, 2018

Chumley said:
Having children is very important for some people. It's not my place or yours to tell them they're wrong for wanting that out of their life.

I never said it wasn't.

I am saying I find it hard to believe that that is truly the reason some people wouldn't date a trans person, as it seems way more likely someone would make it work with a cis person in the same situation.

If having children means that much to you, that's great! I'm doubting how genuine that defense is in general, not for anyone specifically.

SneakersSO said:
I do agree with what you're implying - that certain people just aren't into dating a transperson & are using the reproductive excuse to cover up their true intention. There are absolutely people who will cut off a relationship the moment they discover they can't have kids with their partner, that much is true.

Pretty much this.

RedMercury said:
Then why argue against the interests of trans people by calling it disingenuous and putting "discrimination" in quotes?

That isn't what they did.

KHarvey16 · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
Yep, sure do, KHarvey.

Is there research to suggest such a thing? I believe you'll find this is not a common outlook anywhere.

Deleted member 24907 · Jun 21, 2018

Yasuke said:
I mean, that's not what they're saying.

No one in here thinks trans people shouldn't be afforded the same rights and treatment as everyone else.

Right, just that they need to accept that the vast, vast majority of society will think of them as un-dateable.

No big deal tho /s

Interested Observer · Jun 21, 2018

SugarNoodles said:
Trans woman = woman
Man =/= woman

Yes I'm aware of that thank you. I don't really know what this has to do with my post.

SugarNoodles · Jun 21, 2018

Redhead On Moped said:
My ex-roommate ended his relationship with girlfriend of 4 years due to finding out she was sterile. Having his own child was just that important to him.

I believe you, but I dont think that's the correlation to the study in the OP that we're looking at.

RedMercury · Jun 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
Is there research to suggest such a thing? I believe you'll find this is not a common outlook anywhere.

Not that I'm aware of. I'm fine with that.

Aang's_Bae · Jun 21, 2018

Chamberlin said:
Someone needs to tell all these "because I want kids" people about adoption.

Adoption is expensive and not everyone can afford it. Many adoptions cost the amount you would spend raising a child to the age of ten at birth to put it in perspective.

Robin said:
the selections were non descriptive, so if a participant was not selecting trasn-woman, trans-man, or non-binary because of genitals, they would be making a presumption.

Don't most trans men never go post-op because the tech just isn't there yet? And most trans women because of the cost?
It seems like a pretty reasonable assumption based on what I've read though I fully admit I might be wrong.

SugarNoodles · Jun 21, 2018

Interested Observer said:
Yes I'm aware of that thank you. I don't really know what this has to do with my post.

Well, this study isnt about asking straight men if they are willing to date trans men. Do you see the difference?

KHarvey16 · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
I'm fine with that.

And do you equate everyone who questions the truth of your claim with bigots? Even without any research or other material to support your position?

Deleted member 18568 · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
When a minority class who has historically been treated badly and have never been given a fair chance just wants to be treated the same as everyone else it's disingenuous and not discrimination? Hm

This thread is going to be a shitshow, but I hope it's still here when I wake up tomorrow

I'm all for for literally everyone being given a fair chance. People can date whoever they want! Where did I say otherwise?

Trying to dictate other people's biological sexual preferences is a completely different topic. If I don't like red hair, it's no ones business but my own.

I'm saying it's disingenious to equate the two. I mean, I can't believe I have to explain the difference.

Son Lamar · Jun 21, 2018

SugarNoodles said:
This is really ridiculous unless you're actually implying that most people would break it off with someone upon finding out that they're sterile or cant have children for health related reasons.

Would I break it off depends on how much time we been together, if I made it known I wanted kids and you withheld that information from me yes I'd leave you in a heartbeat, if I'm with someone and later something occurs that they can't have kids no I wouldn't leave them

leenbzoold · Jun 21, 2018

Chamberlin said:
Someone needs to tell all these "because I want kids" people about adoption.

Some peoples preference is to pass on their very own genes.

Zelda · Jun 21, 2018

In terms of sensation during intercourse are post op vaginas the same as real vaginas?

Deleted member 176 · Jun 21, 2018

For some people it may be kids or just plain bigotry or whatever else, but I'm telling you guys is probably just people want to see the parts they like when their partner takes their underwear off. In however many years when we're able to perfectly recreate different body parts I don't think you will see these kinds of responses.

Garrett 2U · Jun 21, 2018

Am I discriminating someone by not being attracted to them? That sounds fairly unreasonable to me.
I'd treat someone that I am not attracted to the same way as anyone I am attracted to.

MegaManTrigger · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
People's minds are closed because of a bigoted society telling them that some things are desirable and some are not. Nobody is born thinking "I would never date a black person" for instance but a ton of people would probably say that. And if you are cognizant of that you can choose to work at reprogramming yourself to not be closed-minded. Most people won't do the work because their prejudices are ingrained in them and they don't want to do the work to change.

This doesn't even make sense because you are disregarding a major element aka the actual sexual attraction that one has for the opposite gender. The kind of genitals that someone has plays a major role in their attraction to the other partner. A cis man/woman aren't going to suddenly be attracted to the same gender's genitals by simply being more socially aware or disregarding prejudices of trans men/women. Human beings aren't computers that can be "reprogrammed" into being attracted to more than what they know.

Siggy-P · Jun 21, 2018

Robin said:
the selections were non descriptive, so if a participant was not selecting trasn-woman, trans-man, or non-binary because of genitals, they would be making a presumption.

Right, but like, that would likely make a massive difference to the entire purpose of the study.

You can't say that a straight man is discriminating against a trans person, when as far as they are aware, that person has a penis, and they specifically don't like penis. You can't demand someone become bisexual or pansexual.

SneakersSO · Jun 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
Is there research to suggest such a thing? I believe you'll find this is not a common outlook anywhere.

By this logic, RedMercury believes in sexual reprogramming therapy that the LGBT has often rallied against.

Either people are allowed to be attracted to & sleep with the people of their choosing, or we are all bigots for having our set of individual preferences, whatever they may be.

Interested Observer · Jun 21, 2018

SugarNoodles said:
Well, this study isnt about asking straight men if they are willing to date trans men. Do you see the difference?

Again, this is really nothing to do with my post or the one I replied to. What are you on about?

Brazil · Jun 21, 2018

96,7% of heterosexual men wouldn't date a woman because she's trans.

Yeah, there's no prejudice or insecurity at all in that absurdly high percentage.

Aang's_Bae · Jun 21, 2018

Zelda said:
In terms of sensation during intercourse are post op vaginas the same as real vaginas?

Yes ,at least from what I've read, but many don't get the surgery for various reasons.

Brazil said:
96,7% of heterosexual men wouldn't date a woman because she's trans.

Yeah, there's no prejudice or insecurity at all in that absurdly high percentage.

Or they assume they're talking pre-op and the subjects aren't into dick no matter who it's attached to.

The researchers really should have been clearer about this.

T'Challa Shakur · Jun 21, 2018

SneakersSO said:
I wouldn't equate sexual preference to social acceptance. I have absolutely nothing against transpeople; I want them to have every major freedom & right a person can have. However, for my own personal sexual preference, I wouldn't want to date someone who was.

At a certain point, an individual's persons sexual preference is theirs to do with as they please while also not being labelled a transphobe or what-have-you.

Pretty much

UraMallas · Jun 21, 2018

Yasuke said:
Gotta admit, I don't get the "well, I want kids argument"; I always found that a bit of a weird defense. How many people are you interviewing mid-date about their ability to reproduce? Not being able to bear children isn't just a trans thing, after all. I guess I find it hard to believe a lot of the people who claim that as their reasoning would actually leave a relationship with a cis person if they ended up not being able to reproduce.

I think it is a bigger thing than maybe many know. When I was younger it waan't as big of a deal because a lot of my friends swore up and down they didn't want kids. Now that I am getting older, I've started to see the change. I have had two friends end it because of the no kids situation. One the girl was unfortunately unable to reproduce and the other already had two kids and had their tubes tied.

Speaking personally, I have had two breakups revolve around the fact that I did not want kids. On the first occasion, I was unclear about this fact and it was partly my fault for not knowing at the time what I wanted for my life. The second girl, I was honest and up front with but she grew to want to have children so it also ended.

So, what I am saying is that it might be more common than one would initially think. It is a legit deal-breaker. Even with my past relationship malfunctions I totally agree that it can be for some. It's a valid feeling. Biology doesn't fuck around.

RedMercury · Jun 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
And do you equate everyone who questions the truth of your claim with bigots? Even without any research or other material to support your position?

While I don't think you are entitled to my entire worldview, as it relates to this conversation yes I would say if someone says "I will never date a trans or black or disabled etc individual and I will never find them attractive and I am not willing to examine that or work to change my perceptions that have likely been shaped by a bigoted society" yeah that's pretty fucked up. I'm just one guy though.

SneakersSO said:
By this logic, RedMercury believes in sexual reprogramming therapy that the LGBT has often rallied against.

Either people are allowed to be attracted to & sleep with the people of their choosing, or we are all bigots for having our set of individual preferences, whatever they may be.

I never mentioned sexuality but hey feel free to put words in my mouth and shadow quote me

TheBeardedOne · Jun 21, 2018

TheWickedSoul said:
I wouldn't date a trans person but be friends? Sure. Trans people should have all rights everyone else has and they shouldn't be discriminated for who they are.

Doctoglethorpe · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
People's minds are closed because of a bigoted society telling them that some things are desirable and some are not. Nobody is born thinking "I would never date a black person" for instance but a ton of people would probably say that. And if you are cognizant of that you can choose to work at reprogramming yourself to not be closed-minded. Most people won't do the work because their prejudices are ingrained in them and they don't want to do the work to change.

Then why argue against the interests of trans people by calling it disingenuous and putting "discrimination" in quotes?

Sexuality is not a choice.

KHarvey16 · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
While I don't think you are entitled to my entire worldview, as it relates to this conversation yes I would say if someone says "I will never date a trans or black or disabled etc individual and I will never find them attractive and I am not willing to examine that or work to change my perceptions that have likely been shaped by a bigoted society" yeah that's pretty fucked up. I'm just one guy though.

I think you just jammed a whole lot of words and perspectives in there that I never used or intended. You're not making a good faith effort in this post.

Neece · Jun 21, 2018

I wonder how many of the people that said they wouldn't date a trans person would report being willing to have sex with a trans person. I've read accounts from trans women that they meet men that would have sex with them but wouldn't date them.

excelsiorlef · Jun 21, 2018

Trans folk should start being incels... then folks here would probably show us more empathy.

BDS · Jun 21, 2018

People keep saying this is about wanting to have biological children but that doesn't explain the tiny numbers for cis gay men and women.

Interested Observer · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
I never mentioned sexuality but hey feel free to put words in my mouth and shadow quote me

You said you think people can train themselves to date anyone, be they men/women/etc. So yeah you kinda did.

SneakersSO · Jun 21, 2018

RedMercury said:
I never mentioned sexuality but hey feel free to put words in my mouth and shadow quote me

This entire study is done on the basis of sexual or romantic interest - if you're not talking about a person's sexuality as it relates to a transperson, then you're not talking about the subject at hand.

RedMercury · Jun 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
I think you just jammed a whole lot of words and perspectives in there that I never used or intended. You're not making a good faith effort in this post.

I legitimately answered your question to the best of my ability, that you don't like my answer does not make it in bad faith. This is not new, I'm sure I've said as much in previous similar topics at some point.

Deleted member 176 · Jun 21, 2018

BDS said:
People keep saying this is about wanting to have biological children but that doesn't explain the tiny numbers for cis gay men and women.

Its the genetalia for sure

Yasuke · Jun 21, 2018

Eatin' Olives said:
Right, just that they need to accept that the vast, vast majority of society will think of them as un-dateable.

No big deal tho /s

I don't think they need to just accept that, but I also think measuring how accepted you are by how many people may or may not want to date you is...shaky.

Sexual attraction just kinda is what it is for people. You like who and what you like. I can't do anything about the fact I'm not attracted to trans people. There are certainly people that are though (even if it is drastically less than others, which fucking sucks). I get that.

I'm nowhere near as bad off as they are, but a shrunken dating pool is definitely something I'm familiar with as a person of color. Statistically, I am much less likely to date and/or marry a woman who isn't black. And while I personally prefer black women anyways, that is something I have to deal with any time I'm placed in a position where I'm interested in pursuing literally anyone else.

I'm nowhere near as bad in that area as trans people. But I also can't force someone to want to date me. This is a topic worth broaching, I think, but it's murkier in this instance because you start dealing with people's attractions to certain genitalia and genders, which isn't really something most people can switch on or off. Some of that is socialization for sure, and will get better as we become more tolerant. But some of it isn't.

FUME5 · Jun 21, 2018

KHarvey16 said:
Do you believe any person can train themselves to be ok dating any other person? Male, female, tall, short, white, black, red head, brunette?

What? Train yourself out of intrinsical sexual behaviour? Are you suggesting a heterosexual version of conversion therapy?

SugarNoodles · Jun 21, 2018

Interested Observer said:
Again, this is really nothing to do with my post or the one I replied to. What are you on about?

Well, guessing at what you meant, in your original post, I think the answer you might be looking for is "it doesnt because the argument is bull shit"?

New Research Shows a Vast Majority of Cis People Won't Date Trans People

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