MoviePass Discussion

Burt · Jun 20, 2018

SeanM said:
Neither scenario is good for Regal - both end up with them having to ultimately start their own service. It makes more sense for them to avoid MoviePass altogether and rush to start their own service while this subscription market is still in the early stages. That way at least they control their own destiny rather than being reliant on others. Regal has enough power and leverage (a third of the US screens) that they can negotiate deals directly with movie studios to make a service like this sustainable.

This is why I'm half expecting MoviePass to get bought up at some point by one of the data-centric mega corporations. MoviePass-esque subscriptions are the way of the future and a third party one-Pass-fits-all-theaters is a value proposition that I don't think any single chain can reasonably match, but it's an incredibly tough battle to break even when you're fighting from the bottom-up with the theaters resisting at every turn.

Someone like Amazon or Facebook would have the cash to burn, the technical/customer service/UX expertise that MoviePass seems to lack, the ability to make use of MoviePass's data and tons of data that would be useful for MoviePass, and most importantly, the broader userbase/suite of services that would give them the advertising and general marketplace leverage to strongarm the chains into a more equitable deal. Facebook in particular seems like it would be a good fit given its advertising-oriented nature. That, and I imagine that there's a lot of overlap between the MoviePass demographic and the 25-40 year olds that are getting disillusioned with Facebook and leaving it in droves.

Not that I have any desire whatsoever to reactivate my Facebook account, but that's the point.

Carthago Delenda Est · Jun 20, 2018

SeanM said:
Could Regal negotiate a much better deal than the 20-30% the other chains are paying right now? Probably. But that doesn't exactly help MoviePass stay afloat, and at that point Regal would basically be sending users to the service that they are helping to kill.

I see two possible scenarios:

1. Regal negotiates a great deal that is one-sided in their favor. MoviePass signs it out of desperation but is soon forced to cease operations after investors realize they've essentially been shut out from any earnings at 70% of the US market (AMC and Regal) and that MoviePass has no path to profitability. With MoviePass gone and lots of angry customers, Regal is forced to start their own service, but now AMC and others have a huge head start on them.

or

2. Regal plays ball, helps MoviePass become more popular, and in turn MoviePass uses that popularity against Regal by demanding a much higher cut and percentage of concession sales etc during their next round of contract negotiations. Regal is either forced to accept MP's aggressive terms or start their own service. Like above, if they decide to start their own subscription service at this point they'll have to start from nothing and their competition will have a huge head start.

Neither scenario is good for Regal - both end up with them having to ultimately start their own service. It makes more sense for them to avoid MoviePass altogether and rush to start their own service while this subscription market is still in the early stages. That way at least they control their own destiny rather than being reliant on others. Regal has enough power and leverage (a third of the US screens) that they can negotiate deals directly with movie studios to make a service like this sustainable.

First scenario: MoviePass can make money in many ways, only one of which is through taking a cut out of earnings (which, to be clear, is not profit at all but instead simply a reduction of expenses so it doesn't solve the problem). For MoviePass to survive, they're going to have to leverage their membership and the data that provides. That kind of data is valuable, especially as they get more of it. Movie-going habits of someone on a subscription can reveal a lot to production companies about what types of movies appeal to certain people. MoviePass is not in a rush to be profitable anyway - Silicon Valley does not require that. Rather, they just need enough of a chance to continue to get investors. A deal with Regal would do that even if it was one-sided (which, again, it wouldn't be as MoviePass would benefit as well).

Second scenario: There are plenty of ways to play the long game and get around this or at least mitigate it. Either way, if you can push that off for 5-10 years, you can position yourself to be in a much better situation when you need to fight that battle. Regal has the upper hand right now, so whatever contract they negotiate is going to stand for quite a long time. MoviePass literally cannot afford to say no.

I agree that Regal could start their own service, but there's no evidence you've put forth to show that it would be in their interest to jump in early as opposed to later. MoviePass is a viable alternative to their own subscription service, especially if they allow e-ticketing and even advance ticketing if MoviePass can develop that. You get the same benefits in the markets you control and you don't have the negative effects of having to support a subscription service, which is undoubtedly a short term loss. In the event MoviePass dies, all those people wouldn't just immediately sign up for AMC's. Regal could be ready with its own subscription so that its loyal customers never miss a beat.

To the extent Regal has leverage with movie studios, that's completely independent of this. They'd use that leverage no matter what. It doesn't matter.

mrmoose · Jun 20, 2018

Moviepass is not in a rush to be profitable? I mean their stock is about to be delisted, and they want approval from stockholders for more stock shenanigans. That seems like desperate straights to me.

How much data do they really gather and how much is that worth? If you make the price low enough, people will see movies that they normally would never pay actual ticket prices for, but how do you differentiate that from the ones that they would've gone to anyway? Amazon and Facebook already know more about people than anyone else. Also, what about this company is so proprietary that someone couldn't recreate it if they really wanted to? The debit card technology, which is ripe for fraud and is a pain to the users?

Carthago Delenda Est · Jun 20, 2018

mrmoose said:
Moviepass is not in a rush to be profitable? I mean their stock is about to be delisted, and they want approval from stockholders for more stock shenanigans. That seems like desperate straights to me.

How much data do they really gather and how much is that worth? If you make the price low enough, people will see movies that they normally would never pay actual ticket prices for, but how do you differentiate that from the ones that they would've gone to anyway? Amazon and Facebook already know more about people than anyone else. Also, what about this company is so proprietary that someone couldn't recreate it if they really wanted to? The debit card technology, which is ripe for fraud and is a pain to the users?

They'd like to be profitable, they don't need to be. They never expected to be profitable in the short term. Obviously they can't be, not even close. They want to survive, not be profitable, and those are entirely different. They are desperate, that's for sure. The goal's just much closer than you think it is (not to imply they're guaranteed to get there).

As for data, you get to find out what types of movies people might see if they didn't have to pay for it. You can also track interest in films and whether that interest translates into sales. You can track genres. Actors. Directors. Genders. Age. This stuff isn't so easy to get and MoviePass is making it easy. It will help companies make better decisions when investing in new movies once they get enough of it. Amazon and Facebook know much more, sure. But they don't know this.

As for their idea, obviously anyone could do it. But they didn't so MoviePass gets to shoot first. Sometimes that's all you need. It's like Netflix and Redbox.

RastaMentality · Jun 20, 2018

wonder how high AMC will price hike a list when moviepass dies.

Ashhong · Jun 20, 2018

RastaMentality said:
wonder how high AMC will price hike a list when moviepass dies.

As a major theater chain, I don't think they will. And the current price is locked for a year.

That being said, anyone wanna buy 6 months movie pass sub? Lol

Senator Toadstool · Jun 20, 2018

//ARCANUM said:
dat name tho

The people love the Big D

Dan-o · Jun 20, 2018

edit: oops. Someone might have already posted that. Didn't see the time stamp.

Pikachu · Jun 20, 2018

I thought MoviePass got severely nerfed recently. What is it like now?

mrmoose · Jun 20, 2018

Pikachu said:
I thought MoviePass got severely nerfed recently. What is it like now?

Nerfed as in:
Everyone will be required, if they aren't already, to take pictures of their movie stubs
You can't watch the same movie more than once
The parent company's stock is at like 30c

crimsonECHIDNA · Jun 20, 2018

RastaMentality said:
wonder how high AMC will price hike a list when moviepass dies.

I imagine it depends on how Regal and Cinemark eventually responds. Assuming Regal creates their own Subscription Service and Cinemark retools their Movie Club, the three chains would have to be competitively priced.

To the very least, I imagine AMC introducing a tierd-subscription.

Memles · Jun 20, 2018

Like everyone else, curious to see how Regal and Cinemark respond: both are much closer to me (the AMC is about 25-30 minutes away, traffic depending), and I'd probably choose Regal since it's the closest.

But Moviepass' versatility in terms of location is definitely much more desirable, even when you consider the lack of repeat viewings. Plus, there's going to be no similar program for the local arthouse where Moviepass works, so seeing the big exhibitors pushing Moviepass out will definitely have a negative impact on my moviegoing even if Regal steps in with a similar plan to AMC's.

whooter · Jun 20, 2018

Memles said:
Like everyone else, curious to see how Regal and Cinemark respond: both are much closer to me (the AMC is about 25-30 minutes away, traffic depending), and I'd probably choose Regal since it's the closest.

But Moviepass' versatility in terms of location is definitely much more desirable, even when you consider the lack of repeat viewings. Plus, there's going to be no similar program for the local arthouse where Moviepass works, so seeing the big exhibitors pushing Moviepass out will definitely have a negative impact on my moviegoing even if Regal steps in with a similar plan to AMC's.

Cinemark already responded with this laughable program: https://www.cinemark.com/movieclub

The "get a free smartphone" thing is new since the last time I looked it, but I'm guessing it was (and still is) DOA.

thediamondage · Jun 20, 2018

RastaMentality said:
wonder how high AMC will price hike a list when moviepass dies.

Pretty legit rumors that AMC was gonna launch A-List back in Q4 2017 at a $29.99/mo price point without including Dolby/IMAX/3D. So moviepass definitely had an impact on their plans and features.

I imagine once MoviePass is dead and buried, and A-List has 1-2m+ subs, they will slowly roll the price up by $5 increments every year.

Vire · Jun 20, 2018

AMC's thing, can you get two tickets to one showing and use up 2/3 movies per the week?

Kirblar · Jun 20, 2018

Vire said:
AMC's thing, can you get two tickets to one showing and use up 2/3 movies per the week?

No, it's per person. You can do 3 in the same day though, which is a big plus for some people.

shintoki · Jun 20, 2018

thediamondage said:
Pretty legit rumors that AMC was gonna launch A-List back in Q4 2017 at a $29.99/mo price point without including Dolby/IMAX/3D. So moviepass definitely had an impact on their plans and features.

I imagine once MoviePass is dead and buried, and A-List has 1-2m+ subs, they will slowly roll the price up by $5 increments every year.

I feel like 19.99 a month is the end of the normal price range, 29.99 just puts into enthusiast range. And as someone who goes weekly, out of muyy range

Imm0ralKnight · Jun 20, 2018

I can't wait to sign up. Will definitely hold up on watching Jurassic World FK. Gonna use this for an IMAX or Dolby Cinema showing.

Here in NYC an IMAX or Dolby ticket costs around 20 dollars.

crimsonECHIDNA · Jun 20, 2018

thediamondage said:
Pretty legit rumors that AMC was gonna launch A-List back in Q4 2017 at a $29.99/mo price point without including Dolby/IMAX/3D. So moviepass definitely had an impact on their plans and features.

I imagine once MoviePass is dead and buried, and A-List has 1-2m+ subs, they will slowly roll the price up by $5 increments every year.

I think when the day comes that MoviePass goes belly up, AMC will pull a Netflix and probably go the tier'd route;

$19.99 a month for 2D showings and $29.99 a month for 2D + premium.

sigma722 · Jun 21, 2018

crimsonECHIDNA said:
I think when the day comes that MoviePass goes belly up, AMC will pull a Netflix and probably go the tier'd route;

$19.99 a month for 2D showings and $29.99 a month for 2D + premium.

Assuming MP goes out within the next year, then I would think they still need to honor the program as is for the full 12 months, given that they give that "guarantee".

After that, then yeah, tiered for sure. Hoping the max version isn't higher than 30/35 though.

Cannot wait for this program to begin.

thediamondage · Jun 21, 2018

Some big MP moves today

They are going to intro Surge Pricing, charging more ($2 it sounds like) for "popular" movies for monthly subs. Annual subs excluded?
http://www.businessinsider.com/movi...urge-pricing-by-july-imax-and-3d-later-2018-6

They will also roll out "bring a friend" and upgrade options for IMAX/3D in late August.

They also are in the process of raising $164m in debt by selling preferred shares to investors
https://finance.yahoo.com/m/3e0cbf60-a408-3b8e-b1ad-260b2d66d674/moviepass-majority-owner.html

And finally they issued official SEC filings that said they lost $40m in May (thats after sub revenue, so if they made $30m in subs they spent $70m on tickets for a $40m net loss), expect to lose $45m in June, and expect they will need an additional 1.2 billion (BILLION) to "succeed".
http://www.businessinsider.com/movi...0-million-in-may-might-need-12-billion-2018-6

Whole thing sounds insane, but surge pricing definitely takes me off the MP train and makes it real easy to board the AMC A-List train.

Zej · Jun 21, 2018

Surge pricing is awful. So much for "subscription service" model. Will wait for more details, but this seems like a final ploy to convert people to annual subs to keep them afloat another month.

PanzerKraken · Jun 21, 2018

They are tossing everything at the wall and hoping it sticks, while just losing money like crazy.

AMC's move shows they are shook, and if the other big chains start doing similar things, MP is dead

b33r · Jun 21, 2018

Yeah surge pricing sucks, but is not a deal breaker for me. I like the option to upgrade though, and the friend thing is nothing to care about.

Ashhong · Jun 21, 2018

Surge pricing makes no sense from a consumer perspective. The movies are all the same price! That's crazy.

Westonian · Jun 21, 2018

Go see surge movies once a week and the MP price is now essentially $20 or more a month.

I think I'm out if this happens.

Deleted member 198 · Jun 21, 2018

Surge pricing literally defeats the entire purpose of the subscription

Deleted member 28076 · Jun 21, 2018

I don't think I understand surge pricing. Is it that if you go see a popular movie, they immediately charge $2 to your credit card on file? Or something else?

thediamondage · Jun 21, 2018

Doctor Ironic said:
I don't think I understand surge pricing. Is it that if you go see a popular movie, they immediately charge $2 to your credit card on file? Or something else?

Yes they will charge you an EXTRA $2-6 (unclear) if they decide a movie is too popular at that moment. Presumably the app will warn you, "Hey Jurassic World 2 is really popular this week so its gonna cost you an extra $3 to see it today, is that ok?" but who knows.

Also the article wording seems to say that when they roll out Bring a Friend and Premium services, monthly subs will be forced to accept those services. Its unclear whether it will be a minimal monthly charge or an on-use charge or both either -- if they charge an extra base $5 for each service for example, it would bump the fee of MP to $20/mo without you seeing a single movie.

CookieMonster · Jun 21, 2018

Doctor Ironic said:
I don't think I understand surge pricing. Is it that if you go see a popular movie, they immediately charge $2 to your credit card on file? Or something else?

I believe they charge you immediately. Warning you if you will be charged, is another thing. They dont communicate that well with their subscribers and are hoping an average moviepass holder doesnt see the extra charge.

Doesnt make sense anyway, theaters dont charge extra for popular movies. This is a way to recoup money they've spent.

Based off the wording on the business insider article, it seems like the charge for premium experiences and bring a friend option can not be opted out if you are monthly payer. Expect a price increase this summer.

sigma722 · Jun 21, 2018

I hope movie pass can make it at least until Wednesday so that AMC has to go through with their plan

Einbroch · Jun 21, 2018

Need to lock in that $19.99/mo because as soon as MP dies you know they're gonna jack that up. And judging by the way MP is going, it could be sooner rather than later.

BWoog · Jun 21, 2018

So AMC's is three movies, any movies including IMAX and VIP, per week for $20 a month?

That's a pretty banging deal, maybe a tad better than Moviepass'.

BWoog · Jun 21, 2018

Ruh Roh

By the end of the summer, you'll see some major changes to your MoviePass subscription — and you're not going to like them all.

The movie-theater subscription service told Business Insider that by August, members of the service will be able to add a friend when buying tickets through the app and will have the option, at an added price, to order tickets to IMAX and Real 3D movies.

But the first change to the service will happen in the coming weeks, when MoviePass will start charging members what CEO Mitch Lowe calls "high-demand" pricing.

The added charge to members will range from $2 to higher for titles the app deems very popular with MoviePass subscribers, according to Lowe.

"At certain times for certain films — on opening weekend — there could be an additional charge for films," Lowe told Business Insider.

http://www.businessinsider.com/movi...urge-pricing-by-july-imax-and-3d-later-2018-6

Rvaan · Jun 21, 2018

The second this happens I'm switching toSinemia

Ronabo · Jun 21, 2018

Ah, this explains why when I saw Solo yesterday at the local AMC I wasn't allowed to use my stubs rewards card with Moviepass.

mrmoose · Jun 21, 2018

Ronabo said:
Ah, this explains why when I saw Solo yesterday at the local AMC I wasn't allowed to use my stubs rewards card with Moviepass.

What does? You were never technically supposed to be able to use stubs rewards with Moviepass, it's in the stubs TOS.

Ronabo · Jun 21, 2018

Yea, but now they're gonna crack down on it and stop it. Since they have a competitor themselves now.

b33r · Jun 21, 2018

Rvaan said:
The second this happens I'm switching toSinemia

How is this service? Anyone use it? I haven't heard of it before, but it sounds good. I will need an alternative if moviepass goes away or gets not worth it. No AMC theaters within 20 miles so their plan is no go for me.

gig · Jun 21, 2018

Will wait to reserve judgement, but an extra 2 bucks for opening night isn't dramatic.

Carthago Delenda Est · Jun 21, 2018

I'm a bit worried about surge pricing. I'm fine if it just means super popular mega blockbusters, but it better not apply generally to any major release on opening weekend. Basically if the theater isn't full, I better not be paying for it. Likewise for a 10am showing.

Funny thing is I'd be happy to just switch to yearly and give them the money up front, but I can't figure out a way to do that so I just keep what I have. What an idiotic business model. MoviePass' problem is that their tech and customer service is just not ready for the big time.

MizneyWorld · Jun 21, 2018

I'm an annual member but this latest news is dumb/concerning. MP doesn't have eticketing in my area so it's already a bit of extra legwork/battle royale when it comes to seeing summer blockbusters asap. But I love movies so I deal because MP is a great value. But getting charged an extra non-certain amount of money up to MP's discretion is total BS.

Zelas · Jun 21, 2018

Carthago Delenda Est said:
I'm a bit worried about surge pricing. I'm fine if it just means super popular mega blockbusters, but it better not apply generally to any major release on opening weekend. Basically if the theater isn't full, I better not be paying for it. Likewise for a 10am showing.

Funny thing is I'd be happy to just switch to yearly and give them the money up front, but I can't figure out a way to do that so I just keep what I have. What an idiotic business model. MoviePass' problem is that their tech and customer service is just not ready for the big time.

My thoughts right now too. Fuck off if not. I dont want to pay more than $15 for this type of service. I'd rather see them raise the price by $5 instead of adding even more limitations.

RastaMentality · Jun 21, 2018

lol they're gonna make surge pricing apply to any movie with a $30m+ box office opening huh

Zej · Jun 21, 2018

When their only spin for service degradation is "it's better for the theaters" [debatable: why should they care when a butt is in a seat], the customers have lost.

Rvaan · Jun 21, 2018

RastaMentality said:
lol they're gonna make surge pricing apply to any movie with a $30m+ box office opening huh

$20 says that they add surge pricing to whatever the next Gotti is.

ShabbadooJr · Jun 21, 2018

b33r said:
How is this service? Anyone use it? I haven't heard of it before, but it sounds good. I will need an alternative if moviepass goes away or gets not worth it. No AMC theaters within 20 miles so their plan is no go for me.

I've used it because I wanted to buy advance tickets to lock in my seats to films, and movie pass wouldn't allow me to do that. They recently changed it to where if you buy advanced tickets you only can choose from 3 websites, and if you get billed a convenience fee, they pass it onto you. I'm paying $31.99 for 2 tickets to 3 movies a month. I'm gonna drop it when AMC A-List comes out.

Neece · Jun 21, 2018

And with this surge shit it looks like it's about time to switch to the AMC plan.

Thanks Moviepass for a great 2017-early2018 movie going experience. And for getting AMC to create a subscription plan. You'll always be in my heart for that.

AndreGX · Jun 21, 2018

Neece said:
And with this surge shit it looks like it's about time to switch to the AMC plan.

Thanks Moviepass for a great 2017-early2018 movie going experience. And for getting AMC to create a subscription plan.

Sadly this is where I'm at. I was going to stick with MoviePass until the end because it's been a beautiful thing. but with these changes and AMC's deal actually being pretty damn good, I'm probably going to switch over. I was hoping MP would have added the ability to reserve seats in response to AMC, but they made a much worse change instead.

AMC is still a right dick though, and I'm going to miss the flexibility of MP--especially since the Popcorn at the AMC Metreon is room temperature garbage.

WoahW · Jun 21, 2018

God I hate the surge shit, why can't any AMC theaters be closer to me, i'll Stick it out for now but MP is on a fine line to crumpling it seems

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