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Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
Nah. The cost involved, culture shock, citizenship red tape, etc. Too much trouble and too risky of a proposition.

If Trump gets re-elected in 2020, though...

Come to Ireland. We've recently voted, overwhelmingly, to legalize both gay marriage and abortion, both of which were in our amendment, something you'd never see changed in America because of that 'MURICA mentality a lot of people have there.

...frantically Googles "moving to Ireland"....
 

Austriacus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
722
This.




And its hilarious hearing people on here saying "Im in Cali, Im in a Blue state, etc" like that shit makes a difference for my dark skin. The privilege must be nice. I always wanted to go try and live aboard, but real talk where the f can/should I go?? Is the question Ive asked myself my entire life.

Listen, im not black so i cant tell you how it is outside the US for black people, the only ones who can are other black people living abroad.

What i can tell you is that theres no built in discrimination systems for black people in most developed nations and you sure as fuck arent getting shot in any of them by the police.

It would entirely depend on what you value the most. Some minorities have no fear of being shot and are doing well for themeselves, so the two above are not a consideration. The ones that do have those fears are AT WORST getting the same or less discrimination they get in the US BUT without the institutional discrimination and the fear of being shot by the police when moving to another developed nation.
 

bmdubya

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,511
Colorado
I would love to, but I don't know where to start. I've already told my family that if shit starts to get worse, I'm out. But, I don't know how to do it. I've read that you need a job in another country, and that helps get you there. I'm so sick of this shit, I'm sick of fellow citizens who defend this shithole of a country. People who I used to respect their opinion defend the awful shit that happens in this country. I want out so bad.
 

drog

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
545
Yes. Absolutely. For multiple reasons. America is one of the worst places on earth to try to live. It's only a pretend first world country, unless you have excessive disposable income it sucks.

Surely this is a troll account? I don't see how anybody could legitimately believe this....
 

Llazy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,073
because of this thread i booked a plane ticket to canada, im leaving next month thanks op
 

FeistyBoots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,506
Southern California
Rad re: overwatch. Toronto and Vancouver are both nice. I lived in Ontario for a while. While I was there one of my friends transitioned (first friend that I knew of that did so), and as far as I'm aware had a lot of support and didn't encounter much prejudice (well, except for online, naturally). When it happened, our department converted our (single person) bathrooms to be gender independent, which was really cool. Anyway, I grew up in Vancouver, so I'm a little biased towards the west coast. Come to think of it, I believe one of my old school friends works at EA in the Vancouver area...

I'd work for them, haha
 

drog

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
545
Serious questions: some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread is baffling to me, what EXACTLY has lead some of you to the decision to leave the US? Besides the obvious Trump being elected, what has taken place post-election that has upset you to such an extent that you'd move out of the country? Or is it just the fear of what COULD happen? Again I'm not being facetious here, genuinely curious.
 

CanUKlehead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,411
Serious questions: some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread is baffling to me, what EXACTLY has lead some of you to the decision to leave the US? Besides the obvious Trump being elected, what has taken place post-election that has upset you to such an extent that you'd move out of the country? Or is it just the fear of what COULD happen? Again I'm not being facetious here, genuinely curious.
I'd be a bit scared of school shootings if I had kids. Maybe that's enough for someone? (Just a thought; I'm not even American)
 

Baladium

Banned
Apr 18, 2018
5,410
Sleep Deprivation Zone
I am 30.

Donald Trump has appointed more than 10% of the judiciary in less than 18 months because republicans obstructed Obama for years in a soft coup. They're appointing hard line ideologues and party loyalists rather than impartial judges (mainly as a backlash to how Souter turned out).

My entire life, the supreme court has been conservative. Neil gorsuch is only 50 - Republicans are deliberately nominating people in their 40s in order to stack the courts in their favor until the 2050s. So, I'm not really seeing republicans get the raw numbers in support that the democrats are, but, realistically, I'm probably looking at a republican judiciary until I die of old age.

We can't undo this. Laws can be repealed. Officials face election every 2, 4, or 6 years. The judiciary appointments are for life, and the only mechanisms around their decisions are:

A. The judiciary overrules itself. Not likely when it's been stacked with true believers immune to debate and discussion.

B. Impeachment in the house and conviction in the senate. Requires 67% of the senate. The US frowns upon using impeachment as a vote of no confidence over poor leadership, judgement, or political alienation.

C. Constitutional amendments. Require 3/4ths of the state legislatures, time limited.

It's actually really sick, but the most feasible way to undo this would be violence. Which is an absolutely abhorrent idea. We all know it's wrong, we are all against it out of principle, we all know it's a dark place that would backfire and destroy the very fabric of our society. That said, the systems and political norms we have in place do not provide for democratic means of undoing damage through the judiciary. It creates a dangerous environmemt where hyperpartisanship can thrive and tensions will continue to bubble up until they explode.

This is not a healthy country. One side is engaged in propaganda and applies zero sum game theory to every action it takes, while the other side is excluded from the Democratic process out of spite and gamesmanship. My Republican representative does not let the public talk to him. It feels like civic engagement from the left is outright ignored by the right, in the executivrle branch, on the house and senate floor, and now even in the courtrooms.

That is dangerous. Someone will embrace their violent impulses, justified or not, right wing, left wing, minority, or white, and we are all going to wind up worse off for it. Regardless of who is in power, who suffers, who thrives, who lives, who dies, a society can't go on like this when faith in its institutional integrity is eroded to this extent. The people can't be happy. No matter how secure they are in their day to day lives.

Edit: like fucking clockwork, sounds like an entire newpaper office was shot up.

Dude, this is eerie. The timing is impeccable. O_o
 

Deleted member 7207

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
417
Here's the real question. Where in the world can a black man go with his family without the worry of discrimination. At this point moving out of the country is not worth it because we're going to get treated the same outside the country as we are treated in the USA.

I think you need to expand your horizons a little if you think every country around the world faces the same level of discrimination against people of color as the US. It's important to keep things in perspective when you're viewing stories (and reactions to said stories). In other words, if you see two or three separate stories about a black man being poorly treated in country X, is that a fair reflection of how the country at large treats all black men? Too often you'll see reactions to those stories that sound a lot like "they're just as bad as US" or "fuck country X," extremely limited views about an entire country's treatment of a particular portion of its populace based on a story whose intent was likely to stir emotions because that's a surefire way to gain views/social media exposure.

Pay some of those countries a visit if you're interested and can afford it to judge for yourself, otherwise seek out people living in those countries online that can provide you with some personal insight. I think I mentioned it earlier in this thread, but I consider Kamau Bell's show to be a good addition to CNN's series of original programming and I saw an ad on CNN for an episode asking if Canada was worthy of the praise it receives as an inclusive society. As far as I know, he has no reason to paint it as such, but with the exception of the work that still needs to be done as it relates to the indigenous population, that episode did, more or less, view the country as being as inclusive as it's perceived, a short clip or two posted at CNN.

Again, perspective is important. You can find stories about almost anything on the web if that's your intent (re: "we're discriminated against elsewhere"), which makes confirmation bias an easy trap to fall into. The web grants us access to an insane amount of information, but even better than all the stories printed by various media outlets, almost all of which are aiming to make money, is the access to people from across the globe that can provide us with unfiltered accounts of what life is really like in their corner of the world. Seek those out before you reach any conclusions.
 

Min

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,077
Serious questions: some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread is baffling to me, what EXACTLY has lead some of you to the decision to leave the US? Besides the obvious Trump being elected, what has taken place post-election that has upset you to such an extent that you'd move out of the country? Or is it just the fear of what COULD happen? Again I'm not being facetious here, genuinely curious.

I'm partially afraid that based on how this administration treats our allies and the impended trade war that we'll reach a point where travel restrictions will be put into place. This might be an irrational fear, but a fear I have as I read The Making of the Atomic Bomb, the rise of nazi germany and the few who managed to flee with the foresight.

As for what has lead me to this fear and my wish to leave:

Increased rate of mass shootings
Support of Police Brutality
Verbal attacks/threats on the Press
*Verbal attacks/threats on our ally nations, e.g. leading to a Trade War
*Obscene friendliness and agreement with autocratic regimes
Erosion of almost all government institutions -- judiciary, Senate/Congress, Executive, EPA, HUD, FDA, FCC, Department of Education, etc.
Erosion of health care systems that were already terrible
Reversal of climate policy and other potential health risk policies
--Increase of zoonotic disease
--Increase of natural disasters
Unbridled governmental debt and personal gain of tax dollars from this administration
Continual/increasing divide between power/wealth in corporations and individuals


The list continues and continues, and yes, these are not things that were by any means great in previous years, but Trump's an autocrat and his party is doing everything in its power for him to remain in power.
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
Serious questions: some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread is baffling to me, what EXACTLY has lead some of you to the decision to leave the US? Besides the obvious Trump being elected, what has taken place post-election that has upset you to such an extent that you'd move out of the country? Or is it just the fear of what COULD happen? Again I'm not being facetious here, genuinely curious.

Here's the thing, by the time Trump closes borders/restricts travel (possible), starts imprisoning/deporting "suspected" aliens (ICE has done this with citizens, sometimes accidentally, sometime knowingly), opens up interment camps (check), implements martial law or begins "temporarily" suspending constitutional rights (for example, you can be searched illegally, against your constitutional protection within the US because you don't have your "papers"), then it's too late.

Jews could leave Germany in the run up to WWII until they couldn't. So I get that some Americans are wanting to leave today, especially those with Arabic or Hispanic backgrounds.
 

Deleted member 4452

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,377
Probably Toronto, Vancouver is my first choice (fell in love when I visited 15 years ago), but there are far more video game industry jobs in Toronto from my understanding. Figured having Overwatch on my resume might get some looks.
Don't overlook Montreal. It's the capital of the game industry in Canada.
Here's the real question. Where in the world can a black man go with his family without the worry of discrimination. At this point moving out of the country is not worth it because we're going to get treated the same outside the country as we are treated in the USA.
I'm not saying Canada is by any means perfect, far from it, but we don't have half the voting population still bitter that they lost a war over slavery 150 years ago, our police - though it can always improve - doesn't freely shoot unarmed people anywhere near the same amount as it does in the US thanks in part to a very different culture regarding guns, and we don't have a war on drugs targetting minorities to keep a private prison system well-profitable.
 

PBalfredo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,497
The only thing more ridiculous than those bumper stickers that say "America: Love it or Leave it!" are the people here taking that seriously.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,472
I've spent most of my adult life in between the US and Austria (am lucky enough to have dual citizenship). Even without all the bullshit happening in America over the past few years I'd most likely find myself moving away at some point.
 

HououinKyouma

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
My friends and family are here, so I really have no choice. All I can do is keep my head up and do my part to try and make this country the best place it can be.
 

MrSaturn99

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,481
I live in a giant bucket.
No, this is my home. The America I knew may have been a lie, but I'm sure as hell not giving it up.

That said, I've always entertained the idea of living in Japan for a time, especially recently since I've grown more proficient with Japanese. Maybe if I ever hit it big with my writing.
 

meowdi gras

Banned
Feb 24, 2018
12,679
Serious questions: some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread is baffling to me, what EXACTLY has lead some of you to the decision to leave the US? Besides the obvious Trump being elected, what has taken place post-election that has upset you to such an extent that you'd move out of the country? Or is it just the fear of what COULD happen? Again I'm not being facetious here, genuinely curious.
I'm transgender. Do I need to spell out any more for you?
 

Hoo-doo

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,292
The Netherlands
It's so cute to see the people justifying their indifference with words like 'i'll fight back' or 'the country needs me to vote and defend it'.

You know what? Fuck all that. Who the hell cares what kind of border surrounds the area you live. Why live your life inferiorly just to defend some lines drawn on a map? I bet a lot of folks in this thread would lead happier, more care-free lives outside of the United States. And honestly, choosing happiness for you and your family is a valid and bold decision that should be supported, not mocked. Life is too damn short to be sticking with a country that doesn't give a shit about you. You don't owe it your loyalty. Go find happiness.

P.S. I welcome all progressive americans to visit The Netherlands. Come get a taste of actual freedom and i'm willing to bet you never want to leave.
 

Shadow

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,131
I want to go to Canada for more reasons than just what's going on here as I haven't even really got my life going and I have a health problem that Canada would help me with for free or really cheap (which costs $1k+ every 6 months here). But alas I have family here so eh, I'll probably never do it unless they moved with me or something.

It's so cute to see the people justifying their indifference with words like 'i'll fight back' or 'the country needs me to vote and defend it'.

You know what? Fuck all that. Who the hell cares what kind of border surrounds the area you live. Why live your life inferiorly just to defend some lines drawn on a map? I bet a lot of folks in this thread would lead happier, more care-free lives outside of the United States. And honestly, choosing happiness for you and your family is a valid and bold decision that should be supported, not mocked. Life is too damn short to be sticking with a country that doesn't give a shit about you. You don't owe it your loyalty. Go find happiness.

P.S. I welcome all progressive americans to visit The Netherlands. Come get a taste of actual freedom and i'm willing to bet you never want to leave.
Or screw what I just said and I'll go to the Netherlands instead. I totally agree with you.
 

52club

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,499
You have to make the decision of how fast the empire is crumbling. I think I should be relatively fine (41), but if I was half my age it would be a bigger consideration.
 

BlackJace

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,452
It's so cute to see the people justifying their indifference with words like 'i'll fight back' or 'the country needs me to vote and defend it'.

You know what? Fuck all that. Who the hell cares what kind of border surrounds the area you live. Why live your life inferiorly just to defend some lines drawn on a map? I bet a lot of folks in this thread would lead happier, more care-free lives outside of the United States. And honestly, choosing happiness for you and your family is a valid and bold decision that should be supported, not mocked. Life is too damn short to be sticking with a country that doesn't give a shit about you. You don't owe it your loyalty. Go find happiness.

P.S. I welcome all progressive americans to visit The Netherlands. Come get a taste of actual freedom and i'm willing to bet you never want to leave.

Again, this is really short-sighted and doesn't take into account for the socioeconomic restraints keeping people from leaving. Not to mention that, for all of America's problems, it has a wealth of diverse cultures that I'm pretty sure can't be/aren't replicated in the Netherlands of all places.

It's kind of messed up that you think that me (and others) not wanting to leave the country of our birth and do exactly what the people that hate us want us to do is a "cute"/desperate attempt at justification.

My people didn't give up during the Civil Rights Era and leave and I'm sure as shit not going to throw all their work away and run.
 

Chekhonte

User banned for use of an alt-account
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,886
Between my wife and I, we have a decent chance at becoming permanent canadian residents.

Even with all this shit going on, it's very fucking hard to make that decision.
 

Daingurse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,746
Nah. I don't have the resources to move to another country. I'm also too close to my family. I can't leave them here.
 

Deleted member 9330

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,990
Legitimately, yeah, I'm looking into it. Gonna finish my bachelor's so I have something to offer. Don't really want to leave, but I also don't really see any of this as sustainable
 

The Mad Mango

Member
Oct 27, 2017
798
It's so cute to see the people justifying their indifference with words like 'i'll fight back' or 'the country needs me to vote and defend it'.

You know what? Fuck all that. Who the hell cares what kind of border surrounds the area you live. Why live your life inferiorly just to defend some lines drawn on a map? I bet a lot of folks in this thread would lead happier, more care-free lives outside of the United States. And honestly, choosing happiness for you and your family is a valid and bold decision that should be supported, not mocked. Life is too damn short to be sticking with a country that doesn't give a shit about you. You don't owe it your loyalty. Go find happiness.

P.S. I welcome all progressive americans to visit The Netherlands. Come get a taste of actual freedom and i'm willing to bet you never want to leave.

Thanks for the invite (no sarcasm intended). Do you think an Indian would feel out-of-place in the Netherlands? And are there a good number of tech jobs available? I don't know too much about the country tbh.

I still want to give the U.S. a chance for a few more years, for some of the following reasons, some more silly than others:

1) I have an attachment to the pop culture that has come out of this country (e.g. Hollywood movies, hip-hop and rock). I grew up loving it and it's just plain cool to live in a nation that is always at the front and center of pop culture.

2) I'm living comfortable here, making decent money in California. Comfort isn't happiness, fulfillment, or even inner peace. But comfort makes it harder to move from the country I've been in my whole life.

3) It would be a damn shame for progressives to abandon ship just as the Democratic Party might be starting to shift left. For the sake of those who are unable to leave the country, I think it's worth staying and fighting for at least a little while longer. But I'm not judging anyone who's going to leave asap.

4) I'm not sure how many other countries have the melting pot of cultures that the U.S. does.
 

shounenka

Member
Nov 22, 2017
532
Yokohama
Yup, already did. Left during Bush's presidency. I was sad to miss the Obama years, but America is too much of a shit hole country to go back to. It's a fucking circus. My family, aside from my brother, are all Trump supporters and they're all brainwashed. I'll be getting my permanent residency in Japan next year, and I very seriously doubt I'll ever live in the US again. I love visiting home to see my friends and family, and to eat amazing food, but Japan is better than America in almost every other way that matters to me.

オマエは俺かw
The parallels in our respective situations are eerie. You nailed it with your last sentence.

The direction of the US post-911 and general quality of life here is what made me opt for one of those shiny red passports back in 2004.
 
Last edited:

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,218
It's so cute to see the people justifying their indifference with words like 'i'll fight back' or 'the country needs me to vote and defend it'.

You know what? Fuck all that. Who the hell cares what kind of border surrounds the area you live. Why live your life inferiorly just to defend some lines drawn on a map? I bet a lot of folks in this thread would lead happier, more care-free lives outside of the United States. And honestly, choosing happiness for you and your family is a valid and bold decision that should be supported, not mocked. Life is too damn short to be sticking with a country that doesn't give a shit about you. You don't owe it your loyalty. Go find happiness.

P.S. I welcome all progressive americans to visit The Netherlands. Come get a taste of actual freedom and i'm willing to bet you never want to leave.
What about those who can't afford to leave? Gotta fight for our less privileged brethren too. They're also the most vulnerable.

Man, what happened to the West? We've become so weak and spineless without any real opposition.
 

PBalfredo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,497
3) It would be a damn shame for progressives to abandon ship just as the Democratic Party might be starting to shift left. For the sake of those who are unable to leave the country, I think it's worth staying and fighting for at least a little while longer.
What's grinding my gears is we're setting up to ride the blue wave but then I look here and see people who would rather abandon ship. Conservatives at least always stay, and we've seen their patience pay off. Lesson's lost on us, I guess.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
What's grinding my gears is we're setting up to ride the blue wave but then I look here and see people who would rather abandon ship. Conservatives at least always stay, and we've seen their patience pay off. Lesson's lost on us, I guess.

Can still vote, donate, and advocate from overseas.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,866
What's grinding my gears is we're setting up to ride the blue wave but then I look here and see people who would rather abandon ship. Conservatives at least always stay, and we've seen their patience pay off. Lesson's lost on us, I guess.

The blue wave can't do shit. The damage is too deep, too systemic, and will last long after Trump is dead or out of office. Meanwhile we'll get a few years of increased Democratic power that'll all be undone the next time a Republican takes office and we'll be right back here again. There's no point in fighting anymore - the mask finally slipped and the true face of America has been revealed.
 

daegan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,904
If I was twelve years younger but had the experience and knowledge I had now (both about where I've traveled to and how things were turning out) I'd be busting my ass to get back into college to get something that would get me in somewhere in Japan

As someone who wants kids, soon, I wish I had skills that made me marketable elsewhere. I also worry about transplanting with my large dog. But I consider it a lot more often than I wish I did, or than I ever thought I would. I've always loved this country but I can't follow it where it's going.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,978
Absolutely not. While I don't begrudge anyone who does leave I feel like I have to stay since I can stay. And by that I mean that anyone who can live through this fine shouldn't just up and leave leaving people who will be hurt and don't want to, or can't, left behind with less support, less votes and in general an even worse position than they're in now.
 

Kisaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,186
I might get one of those TEFL certifications just in case. Otherwise I don't really have the luxury of just leaving.
 

MistaTwo

SNK Gaming Division Studio 1
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
2,456
I started living in Japan about 10 years ago, but was honestly planning to return to live in the States
with my family eventually. I hoped to time it for when my eldest son entered middle school, as I think that's the point where most Japanese schools go to shit.
After everything in the last 5 years or so, I just decided to apply for Permanent Residency here (fingers crossed!) and am looking to just buy a house in Osaka.

I'm not going to put my son and daughter in schools where 'lockdown drills' and such are becoming the norm. Earthquake drills and such are already scary enough,
but at least Japan takes such natural disasters seriously, unlike gun violence in the U.S.

That's just one thing that bothers me on a long list including but not limited it to: Healthcare costs, Ignorant populace with too much power thanks to outdated electoral college and gerrymandering etc., job stability, and the ever increasing wealth gap.

Japan has its fair share of issues, but I feel like the positives outweigh the bad for the most part.
 

daegan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,904
Serious questions: some of the stuff I'm reading in this thread is baffling to me, what EXACTLY has lead some of you to the decision to leave the US? Besides the obvious Trump being elected, what has taken place post-election that has upset you to such an extent that you'd move out of the country? Or is it just the fear of what COULD happen? Again I'm not being facetious here, genuinely curious.
my mother literally died from complications that arose when she couldn't afford to both have food and her needed insulin, which weakened her immune system and let her previously beaten cancer come roaring back, and too many people here are TOTALLY FUCKING FINE WITH THAT STATUS