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pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Is a representative expected to reflect the interests and concerns of an electorate, or to maintain their own set of perspectives?

It's an interesting question, and goes to the heart of representative democracy.

One thing about the electorate is that, in general, it has incoherent policy preferences. For example, polls consistently show that most Americans would like to lower taxes while spending more on every department of government. Obviously this is not possible. One of the primary roles of representatives is to resolve these difficult choices between policy goals. This requires a certain independent judgement.

It's also important to note that most of the opinions of the electorate are weakly held. Most people do not have strong opinions on every political issue. They have one or two strong opinions, which they use to determine a party affiliation, and look to that party to give them a catechism on every other issue. Thus, the representative they elect doesn't just follow the concerns of their constituents, they shape those concerns with their arguments and campaigns. There's a reason why the classic American political narrative is running on a specific policy, getting elected, and implementing that specific policy.

However, ultimately politicians serve to implement the will of the people. To the degree that they have independence, it is in identifying and shaping that will, not in defying it. I generally support politicians shifting their views to match the political climate, while also abiding by the moral requirements of office.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
But ultimately it's on Mitch to decide when she will be questioned and when a vote would happen.
Normally I would sardonically say, "But the president might say mean things about them on Twitter!!!!!"

But it could actually happen, and since they've wedded themselves to him so thoroughly, they need to maintain his favor.

What happens if they delay until midterms with the president screaming every day, "WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG?"
 

BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Eh, the Christian right really has a stranglehold over the party. It's not stupid to support them if you want to rollback social progress.
Rolling back social progress is stupid though. Supporting Trump and claiming to be Christian is also a sign of stupidity and hypocrisy. It's a fact that Republicans are overall less educated and more susceptible to fear mongering, which is what Republicans dish out.
 

shadow_shogun

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,743

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,596
Normally I would sardonically say, "But the president might say mean things about them on Twitter!!!!!"

But it could actually happen, and since they've wedded themselves to him so thoroughly, they need to maintain his favor.

What happens if they delay until midterms with the president screaming every day, "WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG?"
I don't know but I think sooner rather than later is better for us because if it's deiayed until fall, it will motivate the base.
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,213
It's an interesting question, and goes to the heart of representative democracy.

One thing about the electorate is that, in general, it has incoherent policy preferences. For example, polls consistently show that most Americans would like to lower taxes while spending more on every department of government. Obviously this is not possible. One of the primary roles of representatives is to resolve these difficult choices between policy goals. This requires a certain independent judgement.

It's also important to note that most of the opinions of the electorate are weakly held. Most people do not have strong opinions on every political issue. They have one or two strong opinions, which they use to determine a party affiliation, and look to that party to give them a catechism on every other issue. Thus, the representative they elect doesn't just follow the concerns of their constituents, they shape those concerns with their arguments and campaigns. There's a reason why the classic American political narrative is running on a specific policy, getting elected, and implementing that specific policy.

However, ultimately politicians serve to implement the will of the people. To the degree that they have independence, it is in identifying and shaping that will, not in defying it. I generally support politicians shifting their views to match the political climate, while also abiding by the moral requirements of office.

Yes, it's something I think about a lot, particularly during election campaigns and especially starting around late 2015 (when I started reading this thread). A candidate puts forward a broad platform, which tends to gain the interest of a potential voter based upon one or a couple of items, and perhaps a different voter for a different item, as you said--or even on the "I could have a drink with this person" rationale. Yet a candidate is of course responsible for much more than one issue. When it comes to the responsibilities of a representative over the course of time, though, it's just always been unclear to me how a representative is expected to continue adapting their platform in an appreciable way, without being condemned as having a loose stance. "Change" elections seem specifically ungenerous to a candidate whose policy history doesn't match the present interests of an electorate, even if their intent is to remain aligned with the will of the people.
 

Stinkles

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
20,459
It would be pretty logical for turnout to nominate then in up turnout among abortion folks but that could backfire for the same reason if Dems and sane independents swell the ranks
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
Posted this Milbank opinion piece up in OT cause I think it's a very very good summary to share with people explaining the GOP's behavior over the past 20-30 years and where it's lead us - https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...d3beccdd7a3_story.html?utm_term=.4d0963414b27
That piece doesn't really get into the most important bit -- not that there's normal election and voter enthusiasm cycles that respond to current power holders -- but that republicans have been using the time they have in power to set the stage for long term minority rule, in contrast with democrats that do what they can when in power and then let the cycles take the power from them naturally.

The response to ACA is not the model to look at when it comes to the public's response to Trump -- the article mentions the rigged district lines, electoral college, SCOTUS, and voting rights, but it doesn't explore how that changes the game, changes the model -- what happens when the backlash can't come through the ballot box.

 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,497


w e l p

The thing that gets me is, he knows how this looks. He constantly complains about people talking about how bad this looks for him. And yet, and yet and yet, somehow, he always finds a way to be nicer to Russia, despite his image fixation. Almost like they have something on him.

:thinking:
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
That piece doesn't really get into the most important bit -- not that there's normal election and voter enthusiasm cycles that respond to current power holders -- but that republicans have been using the time they have in power to set the stage for long term minority rule, in contrast with democrats that do what they can when in power and then let the cycles take the power from them naturally.

The response to ACA is not the model to look at when it comes to the public's response to Trump -- the article mentions the rigged district lines, electoral college, SCOTUS, and voting rights, but it doesn't explore how that changes the game, changes the model -- what happens when the backlash can't come through the ballot box.


The entire thesis of the piece is "the GOP is trying to set up long term minority rule". You may want to re-read it, he's not talking about typical wave behavior.
 

Wilsongt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,507


w e l p

The thing that gets me is, he knows how this looks. He constantly complains about people talking about how bad this looks for him. And yet, and yet and yet, somehow, he always finds a way to be nicer to Russia, despite his image fixation. Almost like they have something on him.

:thinking:


LOL
O
L

not a fucking Russian puppet
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,788


w e l p

The thing that gets me is, he knows how this looks. He constantly complains about people talking about how bad this looks for him. And yet, and yet and yet, somehow, he always finds a way to be nicer to Russia, despite his image fixation. Almost like they have something on him.

:thinking:

I'm at the point where I can't even laugh at a good "Pee Pee Tape" joke anymore. I need a vacation.
 

Diablos

has a title.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,596


w e l p

The thing that gets me is, he knows how this looks. He constantly complains about people talking about how bad this looks for him. And yet, and yet and yet, somehow, he always finds a way to be nicer to Russia, despite his image fixation. Almost like they have something on him.

:thinking:

What the fuck...
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,969
South Carolina


Either Putin is cashing in and bailing out or The Dotard is completely invested in entertaining his fantasies of Economic Supergenius and Putin's Cum Dumpster in one grand flourish.

Yep.

The NYT, more than any other mainstream outlet, has a serious, systemic problem that desperately needs to be addressed, but it's so difficult to make that point in this climate when the entirety of the press is under attack

Horse-racing. #4 on my list of things needing to be fixed with journalism.

"OK, so NOW we won't be called 'liberal media' again!" or the EiC is some kind of wrong.

Gen Xers aren't showing the same GOP-tilt as they age prior generations have-



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...l-line-hoping-millennials-start-leaning-right

Been a thing. Just another drummer boy in the army of the GOP headed off to senile authortarianism.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
The entire thesis of the piece is "the GOP is trying to set up long term minority rule". You may want to re-read it, he's not talking about typical wave behavior.
I think you're reading into it, rather than actually reading it. It does little more than allude to how the things he lists actually change the model.

If anything, the fury should be far more intense on the Democratic side right now than it was for Boehner in 2010. The Affordable Care Act was the signature proposal of a president elected with a large popular mandate, it had the support of a plurality of the public, and it was passed by a party that had large majorities in both chambers of Congress and had attempted to solicit the participation of the minority.

This is how he differentiates between backlash to dems and backlash to republicans. ACA and Obama was more popular. That's it.

As I said, it does list how GOP Is setting up long term minority rule, but where does it explain the ways long term minority rule changes the model? This is basically all he provides:
It will explode , God willing, at the ballot box and not in the streets.

You can only ignore the will of the people for so long and get away with it.

At best, a hint. Certainly not an explanation.

edit: I think the best I've heard on this topic is from Yascha Mounk and Amy Chua, though Mounk tackles it much more directly.
 
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BoboBrazil

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,765
Trump is openly colluding with Russia and noone is doing anything about it.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
On AFO today Trump said Obama gave them Crimea. Reporter said, no that was Putin, not Obama. Then he said no, it was Obama.
 
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