So you wasted 15 years of time and effort to change a single person's mind.
Thing of all the useful things you could have been doing politically instead of that and you will realize how empty, weak and vapid your argument is.
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Can We Just Admit that Joe Rogan is Alt-Right Already?
- Thread starter BWoog
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So you wasted 15 years of time and effort to change a single person's mind.
Thing of all the useful things you could have been doing politically instead of that and you will realize how empty, weak and vapid your argument is.
Yeah you're right, I should have just lived my life only interacting with people that I agree with and not change anyone's position at all through casual contact.
You characterizing this as some kind of herculean effort that took ALL HOURS OF LITERALLY FIFTEEN YEARS proves how dismissive, empty, and vapid your thought process is. You're more closeminded and pigheaded than he was. At least he was open to entertaining another viewpoint that was even radically different than his.
Christ.
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I don't think he's alt-right per se, but functionally he is as he acts as an enabler by giving credence to what registers to him as more masculine ideologies.
Basically I'm saying that he should be treated the same as an alt-righter. And anyone who disagrees with that statement probably should as well (or at the very least treated like the idiot they are).
Basically I'm saying that he should be treated the same as an alt-righter. And anyone who disagrees with that statement probably should as well (or at the very least treated like the idiot they are).
A pansexual asian latino mixed race far-left progressive that has never voted moderate or right wing in his life and actively makes efforts no matter how small to improve shit? Sorry I don't pass your purity test I guess? I guess that makes me the enemy and as bad as the worst the world has to offer by the logic that I'm hearing.
cya
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Rogan's best interview ever was the one with the former Baltimore cop.
The onus is not on the oppressed to appease and be nice to the oppressors. Period.
I'll leave this here, maybe you'll get some perspective.
I'm not saying that. I'm not saying it's the job of liberals to evangelize and spend all of their energy to convert the opposition.
People in this thread keep extrapolating that I hold some kind dogmatic viewpoint that it's completely not their fault and totally on us to fix them. Not what I'm saying AT ALL.
I'm just saying, in your personal life, should a small opportunity arise where you can exert a not even bothersome level effort to change someone's mind - why is that so fucking horrible?
And that if you happen to move someone towards the left, that effect will ripple throughout their sphere of influence moving forward. Small effort, moderate change, bigger change over time. There is literally no harm in that. How on earth is making tangible change for the better considered appeasement?
Are you familiar with the black man who attends KKK rallies in an effort to convince them not to be racist?
Trump has not proven that, and that you think so is concerning. Deeply so - Trump didn't cause this, or even reveal it. Racism was a problem long before Trump was even an idea as a candidate, and the horrible politics Trump is enacting were all horrible before he was a candidate, and were all real and affected real people.
A significant portion of the 63 million participates in this racism, sexism, and homophobia with absolute glee. And being nice to them and understanding and inoffensive is WHY they can do so - without opposition, they feel they can act so without repercusion.
This for example is such utter bullshit, the definition of boogie politics. When people are constantly attacked, dehumanized, even killed, for whatever reason you deem these people as "doing scorched earth" for defending themselves. You yourself spend so much more time here attacking those the alt-right attacks and kills/dehumanizes than those that prop up the alt-right.
Maybe one should say that this is a problem, then, instead of shrugging and going oh, how unfortunate. This shit has real consequences.
In JPs case, it's embolding people that want to rape and kill women. But that's just fine and dandy, and not being okay with that is scorched earth? I guess I'm just too scorched earth to not want incels to think we're just sex puppets that should be killed if we speak up. How dare I, so uncivil.
Evidently you're not familiar with the reality of that approach or the concept of the phrase "One of the good ones."
Aka, IT DOESN'T WORK! What does work, is direct action.
of the two cases i know where daryl davis turned people away from the kkk one became a nazi the other fired his gun at black protesters in charlottesville
Literally the alt right:Removing our platform drastically reduces our effectiveness
Tone police:Guys maybe we should stop being so loud and mean.
It's a shit ton more effective to stop the messaging from spreading compared to trying to convince racists to stop being racist. That's what people are telling you ITT.
Not even going to address the Davis stuff, huh?
Who told you to be a pessimist? Why are you so invested in helping nazis?
If he's gonna preach about educating people he needs to educate himself about what approaches work outside of his personal anecdote. Personally, I don't give a fuck about the angry jacks™ who apparently need to be exposed to super nuanced and hard to grasp ideas like "black people are people and shouldn't be disproportionally killed by the police in America."
A pansexual asian latino mixed race far-left progressive that has never voted moderate or right wing in his life and actively makes efforts no matter how small to improve shit? Sorry I don't pass your purity test I guess? I guess that makes me the enemy and as bad as the worst the world has to offer by the logic that I'm hearing.
cya
Lol purity test ? Aren't you alitlte too into the victim complex.
" You're more closeminded and pigheaded than he was" but yeah keep it up, I wonder how's the air up there from your tower.
And also that the ideological right are taking time and effort into converting 'moderates' to their side. The left can't afford to not participate in the ideological war. It's silly to say that people like Rogan is Alt-Right when he doesn't espouse White Nationalism ideology at all. Yes he's a flawed person that has some implicit racist ideas, but honestly no more than the white majority of Americans.
I mean to say that Trump getting elected shows that racism will not just end. He's one of the more outwardly racist of the Republican 2016 slate, moreso than McCain or Bush Jr. For a while many people bought into the idea that America was post-racist, which was disproven by Trump.
I'm not saying not to let them go unopposed. I think the solution is to bring back the folks who can be redeemed, and quarantine/minimize/deplatform the ones who can't. There's definitely people who are too far gone to be saved. And work to reduce the circumstances which causes racial strife so that future generations has less proportion of people who get sucked into racist ideologies.
But labeling Joe Rogan as Alt-Right does not help because it's very hyperbolic and doesn't really fit the definition. It can be argued that he's giving a platform to the Alt-Right.
I implore people to watch this relevant clip and ask yourself if he's really espousing Alt-Right ideologies.
I've even timecoded it to the right spot.
He provides a platform for the alt-right. That's enough for me to determine how shitty of a person he is.
It's turns out it's super easy to just not hang out with them.
I like Joe and Sam. Don't really care for the other guys in that photo, especially Rubin he seem like such a tool.
A lot of the big alt-right people are well-educated. Spencer, Anglin, Weev, etc. Same with most of the white Trump voters IIRC (I could be wrong on that though).
Yes, your point being? It is a demonstrable fact that education leads to stronger moral values and a better person.
They would be nothing without their rabbid little followers.
This is how we know you're completely full of shit. You gave up on us faster than your imaginary xbox live friend you supposedly chipped away at for fifteen years - the one you claimed was "extremely homophobic and racist", who you "seriously considered dumping him as a person I played games with". You ceded your "educational" efforts here - in a thread full of people who aren't even displaying bigoted behavior - in a manner of hours. Fucking. Full. Of. Shit.
Next time just stay the fuck out these conversations if you're not gonna be sincere.
I'm 100% with you just to be clear, that was just a reference to how you set that up, or seemed to anyway. I didn't mean it in a negative way toward what you were saying.
I mean if we're gonna talk trap cards, I made this almost a year ago :P
ry reading my post, it will give you perspective on why your attempts are futile.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/one-of-the-good-ones.53064/
Labeling Joe Rogan as "helping the Alt-Right" is absolutely accurate, though. Because he did, and does. He's playing a good part in normalizing them and making them acceptable, which is their very goal. Just like he did a great part in making JP big, which leads to the normalization of incels and misogyny in bucketloads.
I did. The problem is, he has it easy. He's not an alt-right target. Some of us are. So we find it a lot less cute to support them. To prop them up. To give them a box to stand on and spread their hatred. To normalize it, and get more people on board.
All the while we're being talked down to, told to calm down, to be patient, to hope for the best, and, well, do nothing. All else is "scorched earth". All resistance is forbidden.
It's weird that there is nearly unlimited patience for the alt-right, even more patience for all that ensure the alt-right has a voice while their targets don't, but zero compassion for their targets other than some handwaving "of course it's a shame that this helps the alt-right".
Nah, I was just joking. I'm still sincere about everything I said.
I'm just accepting that I'm not being understood or not just articulating my point effectively, maybe I'm just naively holding onto some optimism and should just be intensely pessimistic and there's just no point in discussing further. Which is why I'm just done with this, because if you're a few degrees off message you're just going to get heated shitfall for having the gall for floating a different strategy. Despite me being extremely left, I was basically called a shitty person off the bat and being equated with people on the right/altright. I'm just not into it.
I've received messages of support, but no one really wants to openly support something that people are actively dumping on. It's fine. I'll shut up because there's no room for even proposing an argument without people immediately jumping to personal attacks and vitriol. I've learned my lesson I won't post on these kinds of threads anymore.
My point is they'll always find a way to find rabid little followers. Some people are just malicious from birth and education only helps them find their voice in spreading hatred. Unless you can have a universal syllabus for the country to decrease the potential amount of followers, something that will never happen regardless of who's in power, this is going to keep happening. You're not going to stop bigotry in this country, especially not soon with automation over the horizon which will just lead to more scapegoating. 63 million dissatisfied people are not going to all just die off without leaving behind a not-insignificant number of similarly dissatisfied people that take refuge in hatred.
Even if Joe doesn't agree with them and does not believe in a ethnostate?
No, then you aren't a nazi.
You're just someone that does the nazi work for the nazi. But you're not a nazi yourself.
The strange thing is that people seem to think the latter is what matters, not the former. That "not being a nazi" is the important thing to focus on, not "helping the nazi".
See, you are ABSOLUTELY saying that though by saying that people "make things unquestionably WORSE" doing otherwise. This argument has been done to death here and on gaf before so I don't want to get down with the nitty gritty cause I don't think this is going anywhere. I will say that if you want to spend your time converting Alt-right people then that's your prerogative and I personally will not knock you for that. However I will say you can not expect anyone else to do the same and you also shouldn't blame people who would rightyfully want to distance themselves from such people. Like I said in my initial response to you I'm willing to engage nearly anyone who's engaging me in good faith. Very rarely have I felt a trump supporting or alt-Reich asshole was ever engaging me in good faith.
Pretty much this. He doesn't have to be a full blown nazi to be a dangerous fuck guiding his followers towards nazis.
I'm fairness, that didn't exactly play well with Trump's base either. That's why they had to roll it back.
Was the poster talking specifically about chatting with Nazis? That won't work, but I think there are differing degrees of racism.
I'll squee with glee every time Spencer and his ilk are treated like a whack-a-mole whenever their pasty faces pop up, but I wouldn't want my Nan punched out for referring to the shop down the road as being run by 'pakis', y'know?
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