Super Smash Bros. Ultimate DT2 | News, Site Updates, and Speculation | Welcome to the Echo Chamber

I don't really care about the "rigged" ballot because I never believed it for a second to begin with. The idea that Nintendo would just go along and add whoever won a ballot that conveniently never had its results released or any sort of transparency in the voting process made it clear that the ballot was intended as a way of getting a rough idea which characters people wanted rather than some sort of legitimate, binding referendum.

Weiss said:

I know 4chan leaks are considered uncouth, but given what came out about the ballot I thought I'd share this.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I remember this one being discussed last week. I'm trying to remember the answers that were agreed on for each of the hints. Here are my guesses/what I remember from the five minutes of fame this (probably) fake leak got:

Whip = Simon, Pic = Dark Matter (or K. Rool as a reference to his bloodshot eye), Witch = Ashley, Sliced Apple = Bandana Dee, Anime = Xenoblade Rep, Archer = Decidueye, House = Chibi-Robo

Have no idea for Science or Cards. All of the Echo Fighters are pretty obvious though:
Prime = Dark Samus, Edgy = Shadow, Dog = Isabelle, Asthma = Ninten, Blue Hair = Chrom

The extent of how manipulated it was is what makes me disappointed with the ballot. And this new information -- or I guess old information resurfaced -- is super disappointing. They really played us.

I never expected them to automatically go with those characters with the most votes. There will always be other considerations. But to likely have chosen Bayonetta before even any votes were chosen? Gimme a break. We're allowed to not be OK with that given the way they marketed it.

im skeptical, it feels like alot of characters. I know the whole sakurai has always stated that we shouldnt expect too many characters thing before, but I dunno. I have a hard time feeling it :/

How about Billy and Jimmy?

I'd love to have them in there as much as Simon Belmont.

InASnowBoundLand said:

The extent of how manipulated it was is what makes me disappointed with the ballot. And this new information -- or I guess old information resurfaced -- is super disappointing. They really played us.

I never expected them to automatically go with those characters with the most votes. There will always be other considerations. But to likely have chosen Bayonetta before even any votes were chosen? Gimme a break. We're allowed to not be OK with that given the way they marketed it.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Bayonetta was the best result that could come of the ballot. If the masses wanted something else, well, Sakurai just saved them from themselves.

I think the people trying to make the ballot look rigged are shadowboxing.

It was always extremely sketchy to me that the ballot was closing in October when the character announcement was made two months later, even though character development traditionally takes months.

On top of that, people do realize that a majority of the poll results would've been received during the first few days right? Usually these things have a large drop over time and last that I recall I don't think Nintendo were constantly signalboosting it. Your mileage may vary on whether two weeks is enough to determine this but its fair to argue around that point Nintendo woud've had a solid idea on who's "won" and began hedging their bets. The only ones who are going to continue voting after a certain point are character loyalists, and those results can be re-evaluated for Smash Ultimate. Incidentally, the ballot "ended" when around the time Ultimate's project plan was said to be formed.

And even if the whole thing was a rigged shitshow, who cares, they don't need to abide by it for whatever reason they see fit. Winning doesn't guarantee you a spot.

Though that leak character list would be pretty neat - even though I don't buy it since Archer/Decidueye seems like a standard assumptionary pick. Dog is obviously Isabelle. Dunno who Sliced Apple is though.

Also I don't think the eye suggest Dark Matter. I think it's Magalor.

carlosrox said:

How about Billy and Jimmy?

I'd love to have them in there as much as Simon Belmont.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I'm down for the music, but I don't really know how you could really make them stand out
They're just a red and blue guy that punch and kick
Then again I feel the same way about the Contra people. Red and blue guys that shoot.

Sliced Apple = Ringo from Puyo Puyo since ringo means apple in Japanese. Don't ask about the sliced bit.

Three reps for Sega!

BGBW said:

Sliced Apple = Ringo from Puyo Puyo since ringo means apple in Japanese. Don't ask about the sliced bit.

Three reps for Sega!

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I was tempted to say this but it made no sense for it to be Ringo over Arle

BGBW said:

Sliced Apple = Ringo from Puyo Puyo since ringo means apple in Japanese. Don't ask about the sliced bit.

Three reps for Sega!

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Science= Dr. Eggman. Anime=Sakura (Sakura Wars). Witch=Jeanne.

Six reps for Sega!

Sliced Apple might = Bandana Dee; he does love his apple juice.

Also, this song should be in Smash. They put in Ai no Uta from the Japanese Pikmin ads, so why not?

no, Sliced Apple is definitely Victini

get ready for it

'Anime' has got to be the best clue ever conceived by a leaker.

Literally can describe any character from Japan in a game already consisting of almost only Japanese characters.

Pretty much no matter who is announced, they'll be correct.

BGBW said:

'Anime' has got to be the best clue ever conceived by a leaker.

Literally can describe any character from Japan in a game already consisting of almost only Japanese characters.

Pretty much no matter who is announced, they'll be correct.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Pretty sure it's specifically referring to Oscar from The Rose of Versailles.

Cards could be something relating to Hanafuda.

Science could be basically anything though. A scientist like Professor Hector, Robotnik, Dr. Wily or E. Gadd perhaps. Or a character who was created with science, such as Porygon or Bio Rex (lol as if). Or a character who employs powers that can be tied to a field of physics, such as Phosphora using lightning powers, or Susie who's using a robot.
It's about as vague as "anime", lol.

MondoMega said:

They put in Ai no Uta from the Japanese Pikmin ads, so why not?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Speaking of which, if there's one song I don't mind never returning, it's the French version. It's short and doesn't loop well.

Clov said:

Pretty sure it's specifically referring to Oscar from The Rose of Versailles.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Why would they need to tease Lucina?

I have it under good authority that the "Anime" and "Science" hints are actually both for the same character and that character is Jeff Gerstmann from Giantbomb.com

You know, that reddit originating probable hoax got me thinking. How would you like to tab out the stages? Remember that with overwhelming amount of stages being old being likely, using origin Smash game as a differentiator is not the best idea marketing-wise.

I would go with some mix of size and stage-induced chaos, but that's probably boring.

Do you think we'll have to wait for Directs for new reveals like with Smash 4 or could we get a new character site update any random day like Brawl?

Vidiot said:

Do you think we'll have to wait for Directs for new reveals like with Smash 4 or could we get a new character site update any random day like Brawl?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Probably echo fighters through the site, newcomers in directs

IntelliHeath said:

I wonder what another fandom that would reacted so badly as just same as Waluigi fandom?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Part of the issue is the meme influence. People were seeing the fan reaction and the meme-fueled reaction then just writing it all off as one terrible collective reaction.

Considering that, the K. Rool fan reaction could be comparable or potentially worse, if fans generally see him as more popular than Waluigi and suspect he was among the highest on the ballot. But he probably won't get the same negative meme boost.

Vidiot said:

Do you think we'll have to wait for Directs for new reveals like with Smash 4 or could we get a new character site update any random day like Brawl?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Directs, not necessarily, but any random day, highly unlikely, they want that social buzz that comes with metaannouncements.

"Cards"... Who is a character whose first major appearance on a Nintendo console involved a card-centric battle system...? "I know now, without a doubt... Kingdom Hearts... is SMASH!" :)

Remember when the ballot said the overall winner would be the final DLC character?



Oh....

Even back then we said that technically this wording meant that Sakurai could pretty much pick any suggestion he liked the sound of. Bayonetta just happened to be the top [realisable] vote in Europe, so in the end they did go with a top pick.

BGBW said:

Remember when the ballot said the overall winner would be the final DLC character?

Oh....

Even back then we said that technically this wording meant that Sakurai could pretty much pick any suggestion he liked the sound of. Bayonetta just happened to be the top [realisable] vote in Europe, so in the end they did go with a top pick.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

There were a lot of third and first party characters they might have wanted to save for the next games marketing cycle.

Why did no one tell me Howard Stern did a whole bit about Etika's Smash Ultimate reaction and that he even mentions "Ridley the Dragon" by name?

BGBW said:

Remember when the ballot said the overall winner would be the final DLC character?

Oh....

Even back then we said that technically this wording meant that Sakurai could pretty much pick any suggestion he liked the sound of. Bayonetta just happened to be the top [realisable] vote in Europe, so in the end they did go with a top pick.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

No! The top pick, worldwide, was Boshi. Sakurai was just so biased towards Bayonetta, that he deleted all the evidence and presented Bayonetta as the ballot winner! The Boshi fans won't take much more of this, Sakurai!

Necro reply time!

Elfforkusu said:

How does this theory account for Marth's tippers?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It's heavier on the end, duh.

Cards obviously refers to Card Hero Dude



He can summon those weird card minions just like how Yugi summons shit for every attack in the Jump Super Stars DS games

Maybe too late to the party. I just went to the JP site for Smash. Holy crap, those character renders are beautiful.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

That leaks fake as shit, but I would assume Cards = Joker (Persona 5) or the Persona 4 MC (who uses cards). I'm not sure who they'd go with, but I know it wouldn't be 1/2's main character since they're less popular and it wouldn't be 3 since he points a gun at his head. 4's design is more bland but has been on a Nintendo system and is from the better game, Joker's design is cooler but 5 wasn't even out when the design doc was created.

IMO, Whip-Simon, Pic-K Rool, Witch-Ashley, Sliced Apple-Rhythym Trio, Anime-Rex/Pyra, Archer-Decidueye, Cards-Joker/Persona 4 MC. House/science I don't have a single clue for. Kinda makes me think Minecraft or Labo.

Echo Hints-Prime-Dark Samus, Edgy-Shadow, Dog-Isabelle. Asthma I don't know and Blue Hair could be a lot of characters.

One of my bigger things against this list would be the very possible lack of a new third party company, though we kinda get it through Atlus (though Sega now owns them). I think we're very likely to get one of these, with Bethesda, Ubisoft, or an indie studio being the most likely.

We are all aware the leak is 99% fake, but it's fun to try and guess what the clues are referring to.

I saw some people on Twitter not having fun with Smash speculation and the end result was they were hunched in a corner, rocking back and forth, with a foil hat on, muttering that Sakurai stole their votes. We don't want to be that.

I feel like no one's talking about this. Is it just me, or does the lighting look bad in this game? Everything looks too washed out and desaturated. Anyone else feel this way?

trugs26 said:

I feel like no one's talking about this. Is it just me, or does the lighting look bad in this game? Everything looks too washed out and desaturated. Anyone else feel this way?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It's not done yet.

Cards is a deck of hanafuda cards. It's about time.

Are people saying that since the patch that added Bayo's slot happened two weeks into the Ballot, that Sakurai already had decided before the ballot that she'd be in?

Because that's not necessarily the case. Could be that two weeks into the ballot he had a clear Idea of who the realizable front runners were and added slots while still running the ballot in case other realizable characters went up in the rankings.

People saying "rigged" are assuming that Sakurai ever said he would wait until the ballot is finished to start working on the newcomers. So he started working on clear front runner before the ballot was finished. Ok, so what?

trugs26 said:

I feel like no one's talking about this. Is it just me, or does the lighting look bad in this game? Everything looks too washed out and desaturated. Anyone else feel this way?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

If it ends up looking like that in the final version, yeah it looks odd. Some of the style choices remind me of Brawl.

https://twitter.com/Neoriceisgood/status/1014105175567499264


Today's daily character! Do you think the dojo character updates only exist to give fan artists a target?

Anyway, progress gif as well for those who like them:
https://www.deviantart.com/neoriceisgood/art/Progress-Animation-Falco-752718455

I'm more interested in the stages at this point since the roster is already incredible for me.
I want Brinstar Depths back, that was one of the most interesting Melee stages. It's insane how few of the classic stages are missing.

trugs26 said:

I feel like no one's talking about this. Is it just me, or does the lighting look bad in this game? Everything looks too washed out and desaturated. Anyone else feel this way?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I only really notice it with Bowser. In a lot of shots he's got this weird shade colouring going on.
Not great, but not a dealbreaker for me.

The thing that gets to me about this whole ballot conspiracy is there's extremely little incentive for them to fake this whole shit.

Bayonetta 1 was a modest million selling game, it did well but it didn't set the world on fire. The second game bombed on the Wii U, a whole lot of months before the ballot was even announced.

And you're telling me that the DLC was rigged so Bayonetta, an extremely M-rated character from a niche franchise that underperformed hard on the Wii U, could be bootstrapped to Smash?

I don't buy it. If that were the case they'd have literally no issue feigning that same "lie" when talking about Cloud. It'd have been far more believable to say he was one of the Ballot winners.

They already said not all stages are coming back, but I hope DLC changes that.

Vidiot said:

They already said not all stages are coming back, but I hope DLC changes that.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

They're missing so few of them, I hope that's the case. Just ultimate that shit

Forkball said:

Why did no one tell me Howard Stern did a whole bit about Etika's Smash Ultimate reaction and that he even mentions "Ridley the Dragon" by name?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I'd think this was mean if all reaction videos weren't incredibly, horribly overacted.

NotLiquid said:

The thing that gets to me about this whole ballot conspiracy is there's extremely little incentive for them to fake this whole shit.

Bayonetta 1 was a modest million selling game, it did well but it didn't set the world on fire. The second game bombed on the Wii U, a whole lot of months before the ballot was even announced.

And you're telling me that the DLC was rigged so Bayonetta, an extremely M-rated character from a niche franchise that underperformed hard on the Wii U, could be bootstrapped to Smash?

I don't buy it. If that were the case they'd have literally no issue feigning that same "lie" when talking about Cloud. It'd have been far more believable to say he was one of the Ballot winners.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I dunno. I think it's pretty clear that Sakurai did this to deliberately target us Boshi and Swanky Kong fans.

Vidiot said:

They already said not all stages are coming back, but I hope DLC changes that.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

To be honest, we don't really need them all back. Why have Sector Z when we already have Corneria? Do we really need Zebes when we have Brinstar?

Clov said:

To be honest, we don't really need them all back. Why have Sector Z when we already have Corneria? Do we really need Zebes when we have Brinstar?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yes! I want the mega-sized "Corneria" map. I don't see why it should be excluded. I mean, didn't we get Town & City and Smashville back in this game too? Yoshi Island 64 and Yoshi Story Melee are sort of similar too and they're both back as well. (though not TOO similar i guess so point taken)

For Planet Zebes, you can argue that the map layout being different is enough to justify its return. Esp that said similar levels are already co-existing in this game.

On a side note... Knowing my luck though, PokeFloats would probably be excluded for some reason.