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Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Harris and Booker both co-sponsored Bernie's M4A bill, but then backtracked on the main component of that bill within ~24 hours. Right now they are both backing 3 different healthcare bills each, one of which is barely different from the current system. I knew it was too good to be true.


https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-backtracks-vowing-eliminate-131505611.html
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/1/18207383/cory-booker-2020-medicare-for-all
The public option is literally in Bernie's M4A bill.

The reason you consider this "too good to be true" is that you've repeatedly attacked Harris in prior threads, but it's not a surprise someone dumping on US candidates from the UK wouldn't be aware of that.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Harris and Booker both co-sponsored Bernie's M4A bill, but then backtracked on the main component of that bill within ~24 hours. Right now they are both backing 3 different healthcare bills each, one of which is barely different from the current system. I knew it was too good to be true.


https://news.yahoo.com/kamala-harris-backtracks-vowing-eliminate-131505611.html
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/1/18207383/cory-booker-2020-medicare-for-all
This was covered a ton of pages ago. What was actually said is that Harris wouldn't be against a bill that was multi-payer but she'd prefer single. Do you think Bernie would veto a multi-payer bill?

On top of that, senators can co-sponsor more than one healthcare plan.
 

torresregen

Banned
Jan 13, 2019
74
This was covered a ton of pages ago. What was actually said is that Harris wouldn't be against a bill that was multi-payer but she'd prefer single. Do you think Bernie would veto a multi-payer bill?

On top of that, senators can co-sponsor more than one healthcare plan.
The problem is that she wants M4A to be just a slogan and not a specific bill that she cosponsored (S1804). She is calling all three plans that she cosponsored "M4A" and thus saying that she still supports M4A. Meanwhile, she backtracked on the main issue of the M4A bill (S1804), thus being opposed to S1804. She still claims to support M4A because she also calls the other two bills M4A.

Paul Ryan tried to do something similar with Social Security. He wanted to completely change (privatize) Social Security, but still called the new program "Social Security" and claimed that he strongly supports Social Security and only wants to make it "stronger", while actually opposing Social Security.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The problem is that she wants M4A to be just a slogan and not a specific bill that she cosponsored (S1804). She is calling all three plans that she cosponsored "M4A" and thus saying that she still supports M4A. Meanwhile, she backtracked on the main issue of the M4A bill (S1804), thus being opposed to S1804. She still claims to support M4A because she also calls the other two bills M4A.

Paul Ryan tried to do something similar with Social Security. He wanted to completely change (privatize) Social Security, but still called the new program "Social Security" and claimed that he strongly supports Social Security and only wants to make it "stronger", while actually opposing Social Security.
M4A has been coopted into a general slogan including everything from the public option from the original Single Payer bill for over a decade now, deliberately done because while the slogan is popular, Single Payer is strongly divisive relative to optional programs. Hence why politicians keep using the slogan while avoiding details. All of this far predates Harris's 2020 bid.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
The problem is that she wants M4A to be just a slogan and not a specific bill that she cosponsored (S1804). She is calling all three plans that she cosponsored "M4A" and thus saying that she still supports M4A. Meanwhile, she backtracked on the main issue of the M4A bill (S1804), thus being opposed to S1804. She still claims to support M4A because she also calls the other two bills M4A.

Paul Ryan tried to do something similar with Social Security. He wanted to completely change (privatize) Social Security, but still called the new program "Social Security" and claimed that he strongly supports Social Security and only wants to make it "stronger", while actually opposing Social Security.
M4A meaning both multi-payer and single-payer is not a new thing.

That aside, to quote the article you cite:

"Medicare-for-all is the plan that she believes will solve the problem and get all Americans covered. Period," Sams told CNN. "She has co-sponsored other pieces of legislation that she sees as a path to getting us there, but this is the plan she is running on."

Which is not a back-track.
 

Deleted member 3896

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,815
The problem is that she wants M4A to be just a slogan and not a specific bill that she cosponsored (S1804). She is calling all three plans that she cosponsored "M4A" and thus saying that she still supports M4A. Meanwhile, she backtracked on the main issue of the M4A bill (S1804), thus being opposed to S1804. She still claims to support M4A because she also calls the other two bills M4A.

Paul Ryan tried to do something similar with Social Security. He wanted to completely change (privatize) Social Security, but still called the new program "Social Security" and claimed that he strongly supports Social Security and only wants to make it "stronger", while actually opposing Social Security.
This is misinformation.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Kamala keeps on rising.
Screenshot_from_2019-02-04_08-32-20.png
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,685
3rd overall is pretty good for Harris. She just needs to keep building her name recognition and she'll be a solid contender.
Wondering how long Bernie/Biden will wait before announcing their bids.
Also despite her more recent appearance in media, Gillibrand is still less than a percent?
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
3rd overall is pretty good for Harris. She just needs to keep building her name recognition and she'll be a solid contender.
Wondering how long Bernie/Biden will wait before announcing their bids.
Also despite her more recent appearance in media, Gillibrand is still less than a percent?
Yep it's bad for Gillibrand. Kamala is only 2% Bernie who has 100% name id which is very impressive this early.
 

Exellus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,348
I mean it's pretty obvious to me that Harris will win this Primary unless she has a Howard Dean level snafu. It feels kind of inevitable.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
I mean it's pretty obvious to me that Harris will win this Primary unless she has a Howard Dean level snafu. It feels kind of inevitable.
I'd say Biden has a reasonable chance. Ironically, Bernie's best chance is probably Biden dropping out. Harris still has a massive amount of lack of name recognition to cash in on.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
Biden is DOA. Old + moderate = unelectable in 2020
Would be nice if that were true, but Biden's and Bernie's bases overlap if you look at approval numbers among dem primary voters and that survey that specifically points out that Biden's supporters view Bernie as a second option most and vice versa. If one of them drops out the other is likely to pick up a lot of voters.

All Biden needs to do is talk a big game and not get bogged down by anything while bringing up Obama left and right.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
Would be nice if that were true, but Biden's and Bernie's bases overlap if you look at approval numbers among dem primary voters and that survey that specifically points out that Biden's supporters view Bernie as a second option most and vice versa. If one of them drops out the other is likely to pick up a lot of voters.
.
The fact that its Biden and not Warren shows that this was never about ideology.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
Would be nice if that were true, but Biden's and Bernie's bases overlap if you look at approval numbers among dem primary voters and that survey that specifically points out that Biden's supporters view Bernie as a second option most and vice versa. If one of them drops out the other is likely to pick up a lot of voters.

All Biden needs to do is talk a big game and not get bogged down by anything while bringing up Obama left and right.
a lot of that is because of name recognition for right now. But I agree that if Biden runs he would do very well.
The fact that its Biden and not Warren shows that this was never about ideology.
Again I think it's mostly name recognition.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown

There's no bot/meme attacks in the comments, she's not considered a serious contender by anyone. Their presence does really show who the real contenders are and something about the type of people that send them.
She's going with the nuclear war fearmongering and with the "neo-con/neo-lib" talk she will draw out the tinfoil hat segment.
It'll be interesting to see who financially supports her.
She'll be dropping out early.
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
These are national right? Not for Iowa?

It's crazy that Gillibrand is below Bloomberg and tied with Gabbard.
Not a lot name recognition. She hasn't done anything to differentiate herself from other candidates. And going by twitter, the people who know her are menninists who hate her because of her actions towards Franken and and her prior moves to address rape culture.
 

Deleted member 5666

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,753
Bernie being stuck around 15% in all recent polling despite 100% name id and coming in second last time should be a major red flag.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,747
All you guys saying Biden is DOA are giving me serious "nervous man says thing for the 7th time" vibes.

Dudes numbers have been virtually un-phased. Someone please get him out of this damn race.
 
Jan 15, 2019
4,393
Gillibrand's momentum got devoured by Harris.
Yeah. Gillibrand needs a good answer to the "why her?" question because I don't see much reason to support her instead of Harris or Warren. Warren has progressive bonafides and Harris seems to be a more gifted politician in general which leaves Gillibrand in an awkward spot.
 

Latpri

Banned
Apr 19, 2018
761
All you guys saying Biden is DOA are giving me serious "nervous man says thing for the 7th time" vibes.

Dudes numbers have been virtually un-phased. Someone please get him out of this damn race.

The Iowa caucuses are literally a year away. Numbers are meaningless right now, especially since the top candidates ha net been interacting much
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,685
All you guys saying Biden is DOA are giving me serious "nervous man says thing for the 7th time" vibes.

Dudes numbers have been virtually un-phased. Someone please get him out of this damn race.
To be fair, we still have quite a bit of time left before primary voting, and Biden hasn't officially announced a bid yet.
Most of the polling at this point reflects name recognition, which yes, Biden would obviously be leading in.
 

Tamanon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,729
Also, probably start worrying if Biden ever announces he's running. Before then, it's just a name.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
All you guys saying Biden is DOA are giving me serious "nervous man says thing for the 7th time" vibes.

Dudes numbers have been virtually un-phased. Someone please get him out of this damn race.

It's easy to be popular when the Eye of Sauron isn't on you, he enters the race this changes drastically as he's a real contender rather than a fictional one.
 

kambaybolongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,080
These are national right? Not for Iowa?

It's crazy that Gillibrand is below Bloomberg and tied with Gabbard.
Out of the "serious" candidates Gillibrand and Booker are DOA
Bernie being stuck around 15% in all recent polling despite 100% name id and coming in second last time should be a major red flag.
He should probably drop out based on this expert analysis 🙄

He hasn't even announced yet, calm your jets. Polls are meaningless until the primary kicks into gear.
 
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