ThousandEyes

Banned
Sep 3, 2019
1,388
What is the consensus. He's a shit father, he treats his sons like tools. He forced Lorgar to kneel in front of his entire legion. He sent Russ to kill Magnus. Basically treated Magnus terrible. He isolated the primarchs from the true nature of Chaos. He was xenophobic, runs an absolute dictatorship. How is he any different from Palpatine?
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Every empire just wants to survive in the 40K Universe. There are no 'good' guys.
 

Pilgrimzero

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,129
5f7.gif
 

JoeInky

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,567
They're all the bad guys in 40k


Even the good guys eventually have "but what if they were actually secretly bad all along" stuff thrown in there.
 

Mr_Antimatter

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,576
Did he actually want Magnus dead, or was it someone else who changed the orders? I thought the lore was the ordered were intercepted and altered, and while old one ye was due for a time out, the emperor needed him to help fix the damage to the webway.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,015
Columbia, SC
There are no "good" guys, just endless war that burns up countless lives like coal in a steam engine. Every faction is ruled by assholes for different reasons.
 

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,092
How is he any different from Palpatine?

Unlike Sheev, He conquered the galaxy instead of politicking His way to be installed as the Emperor. Also the Imperium has lasted for over ten millennia while the Galactic Empire was if not defeated, then irreparably fractured by a band of plucky rebels after a couple of decades.

Also, Lorgar deserved to be humbled as he was repeatedly told to stop converting people to worshipping the Emperor and use that time to conquer more planets. Now having the Ultramarines bombard a city from space to make him kneel in its ashes however...

And He sent Russ to capture Magnus and to bring him back to Terra, Horus changed the orders and the lord of the furries wanted to knock down the nerd anyway.
 

Prolepro

Ghostwire: BooShock
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
7,310
I like the idea that the super sketch seeming god figure associated with a galaxy-spanning military dictatorship really WAS a good guy, or at least pure of intentions in a universe so full of impossibly evil bullshit, and that his work and desires have been twisted by the species he tried to save.
 
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ThousandEyes

ThousandEyes

Banned
Sep 3, 2019
1,388
I meant in terms of their alignment we would consider palpatine evil while the god emperor we treat as more ambiguous
 

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,092
those are the ones people keep telling me to read some of

i didnt know they were so far back relatively

This blurb opens basically every other non HH book.
It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries the Emperor of Mankind has sat immobile on the Golden Throne of Earth. He is the master of mankind by the will of the gods and master of a million worlds by the might of His inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion Lord of the vast Imperium of Man for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day so that He may never truly die.

Yet even in His deathless state, the Emperor continues His eternal vigilance. Mighty battlefleets cross the daemon-infested miasma of the Warp, the only route between distant stars, their way lit by the Astronomican, the psychic manifestation of the Emperor's will. Vast armies give battle in His name on uncounted worlds. Greatest amongst His soldiers are the Adeptus Astartes, the Space Marines, bio-engineered super-warriors. Their comrades in arms are legion: the Imperial Guard and countless planetary defence forces, the ever-vigilant Inquisition and the Tech-priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus to name only a few. But for all their multitudes, they are barely enough to hold off the ever-present threat to humanity from aliens, heretics, mutants -- and far, far worse.

To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.

I meant in terms of their alignment we would consider palpatine evil while the god emperor we treat as more ambiguous

To a certain extent. He is a tyrant and a warlord that waged one of the bloodiest set of wars in human history in order to unify all of humanity. Would it have all been worth it? Maybe for the greater part of humanity, but after the Heresy things got so off the rails that we won't know.
 

iFirez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,733
England
there are no good guys in 40K if that's what you're asking
The Tau would like to have a word with you...

In all seriousness, that's kind of what I've always loved about 40K. All the races seem like different kinds of fucked up. The Nids are vicious, hive minded creatures - The Chaos are demonic forces of altered Space Marines and spawn. And there are races who are far more civilised than those two... but have committed much worse catastrophes than either of those ever have.
 

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
The only 'good guys' are the rulers of your respective species. Every thing else is literally a bad guy out to consume/devour/conquer/assimilate/destroy you.
 
May 26, 2018
24,359
There are no good guys. Good died in 40k's past, and now it's just a race to the death of the universe.

It's a really depressing lore :P
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
Unlike Sheev, He conquered the galaxy instead of politicking His way to be installed as the Emperor. Also the Imperium has lasted for over ten millennia while the Galactic Empire was if not defeated, then irreparably fractured by a band of plucky rebels after a couple of decades.

He's not a bad guy because he was better at oppressing his conquered territory.

Got it.
 

Edgar

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
7,180
Warhammer 40k threads are probably most interesting threads to read on this forum.
 

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,092
Arent the Tau the mind slave empire?

Not exactly. There's some odd stuff going on how the ethereals control the rest of the castes, but on the surface there's no mind control, though the way they got the vespid under them is very suspicious. However, they are very strictly caste based so if you get born into the earth caste and want to be a soldier, tough luck. Or a fire cast soldier repairing his own arms/vehicle will get court-martialed. Within the caste however they are very egalitarian. And all the other races in their empire are subservient to the Tau.
They'd be the villain of the week in a more normal scifi show.

He's not a bad guy because he was better at oppressing his conquered territory.

Got it.

I didn't say that. I listed the differences between the two of them. Both are tyrants, one is better at being a tyrant than the other.
 

electricblue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,991
He's an immortal god emperor that keeps his people in a state of perpetual war, I'm gonna go with bad guy on this one
 

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,628
This is why you trust Orcs.

They keep things simple no matter what fantasy setting they're in and just bash everybody over the head with a club.
 

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
The Emporer basically recognised what was necessary for humanity, and just life in general, to survive. The original plan was to conquer the Galaxy to impose science and reason. Not because Religion was wrong, infact more because it was, in a way, right.
The worship, prayer and religious wars of living beings with souls (Not just humans) gave power to beings that were, for all intents and purposes, actual Gods. Gods that wanted nothing more than to turn the Galaxy into a literal Hell.

For a while, before the Emperor stepped into the limelight, humanity in 40K was actually pretty Star Trek. Peaceful, traded with and lived alongside alien races, explored and peacefully settled the Galaxy. Then things got massively fucked up and the Emperor basically had to step in or humanity would be either extinct or enslaved.

The Emporer was basically the living embodiment of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
 

Bleu

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
1,599
he ended up turning into exactly the opposite of what he wanted for mankind.
that is what's fun about it.
also he's a dick.
 
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ThousandEyes

ThousandEyes

Banned
Sep 3, 2019
1,388
The Emporer basically recognised what was necessary for humanity, and just life in general, to survive. The original plan was to conquer the Galaxy to impose science and reason. Not because Religion was wrong, infact more because it was, in a way, right.
The worship, prayer and religious wars of living beings with souls (Not just humans) gave power to beings that were, for all intents and purposes, actual Gods. Gods that wanted nothing more than to turn the Galaxy into a literal Hell.

For a while, before the Emperor stepped into the limelight, humanity in 40K was actually pretty Star Trek. Peaceful, traded with and lived alongside alien races, explored and peacefully settled the Galaxy. Then things got massively fucked up and the Emperor basically had to step in or humanity would be either extinct or enslaved.

The Emporer was basically the living embodiment of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"
Your referring to the dark age of technology era right?
 

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,092
He killed off his army after the unification war. If that tells you anything.
To be faaaaaair, they were going to die off soon anyway because their genemodifications were unstable.... because the Emperor didn't have the time to give them proper ones. YMMV whether that makes culling them better or not.

Literally anyone with the title "God Emperor" is a bad guy.
He's an immortal god emperor that keeps his people in a state of perpetual war, I'm gonna go with bad guy on this one

Well it's not exactly a state He wants to be in. He wanted to lead humanity to a future of peace and rationality and very much denied being a god. Lorgar's fanfiction becoming the state religion after the Heresy is one of 40k's great ironies.

Your referring to the dark age of technology era right?

The combined 2-1 punch of the Men of Iron (ie, DAoT AI) rebelling on humanity and right after surviving that, the finishing line of Eldar murder-fucking Slaanesh into existence caused the practical cessation of warp travel, isolating most planets.
 

RivalCore

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
He's the guy who had to make the hard choices...

Of course you can always blame him for having those choices there in the first place...but see how far that gets you!
 

iFirez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,733
England
Arent the Tau the mind slave empire?
Not exactly. There's some odd stuff going on how the ethereals control the rest of the castes, but on the surface there's no mind control, though the way they got the vespid under them is very suspicious. However, they are very strictly caste based so if you get born into the earth caste and want to be a soldier, tough luck. Or a fire cast soldier repairing his own arms/vehicle will get court-martialed. Within the caste however they are very egalitarian. And all the other races in their empire are subservient to the Tau.
They'd be the villain of the week in a more normal scifi show.



I didn't say that. I listed the differences between the two of them. Both are tyrants, one is better at being a tyrant than the other.
Extremely well put Tacitus :) I remember when I first looked into the lore for the Tau... a good 15 years ago or so now. They always seemed like the 'golden boys' of the 40k universe, especially with their approach but as I got older I realised even that was a false facade and they're just as fucked up in some ways as all the other races.

I was a little out of date on my 40k lore but when I started reading earlier this year about The Great Rift, that really shocked me and I think it's also totally awesome. I honestly wish there was more visual mediums to showcase the 40k lore because I don't have a huge amount of time to read 40k specifically or do much with the miniatures these days. Although, that said, 40k will always have a special place in my mindset because of just how awesome and fucked up that universe is, I love it.
 

Lagamorph

Wrong About Chicken
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,355
the only good guys are the tyranids because they're just hungry cuddly friends
Someone mentioned on here once that there had been hints in some of the recent lore that the Tyranids were actually fleeing from something even worse.

Is there any truth in that? I couldn't find anything at the time.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
I didn't say that. I listed the differences between the two of them. Both are tyrants, one is better at being a tyrant than the other.

It's possible that he's better at it, but it's certainly much easier for the Imperium to maintain order, due to how communication and galactic travel work.

In Star Wars you can get from one side of the galaxy to the other in days, and this type of travel is available to anyone with any kind of means. Communication is instant and reliable. Information and ideas can spread like wildfire.
 

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,092
Someone mentioned on here once that there had been hints in some of the recent lore that the Tyranids were actually fleeing from something even worse.

Is there any truth in that? I couldn't find anything at the time.

Quite the opposite, actually. It was a somewhat popular theory, but one of the HH novels basically states that they're coming here for prey after noticing a certain signal.
 

Phil me in

Member
Nov 22, 2018
1,292
What exactly is the emperor. He isn't human is he. As he always existed since humans were a thing.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
5,349
UK
The Imperium of Man is definitely not a force for good in the 40k Universe, but I'd say the Emperor is teetering more on the neutral side. He did what was necessary for humanity's survival at the time and in doing so set the Imperium forward on a destructive path where they're only eclipsed by truly evil beings e.g. Chaos, excluding my boi Ahriman who's just there for the bants. However his intentions were good and how the Imperium is right now was definitely not his intention. So it's a little more of a grey area to me, but still closer to bad than good.
 
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Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,092
What exactly is the emperor. He isn't human is he. As he always existed since humans were a thing.

If we are to take the vision in HH:MoM literally, He was born to very human parents in Anatolia somewhere around 8k BC. But this will never be completely confirmed. Some like the theory that He is a DAoT science project that got out of its box and started thinking too big for its breeches. Such people are of course, heretics.
 

CenturionNami

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,230
The Emperor is way beyond normal human understanding. What he did was utterly horrific, but he did it for humanity's legit survival.

Most of his loyalist sons were far better people then him.
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