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Deleted member 1849

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More on Twitter if you click through and see the whole comment chain.







Confirmed by multiple other workers, and many of the employees were promised money. Please see this Twitter comment chain:

 
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Deleted member 15476

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Oct 27, 2017
5,268
Really disappointing if his claims turn out to be true. I'll abstain from supporting the studio until things have cleared up.
 

Deleted member 5129

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Oct 25, 2017
2,263
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long

Edit: Oh boy, the storm of quotes. What I mean is I wonder if they were promised something by Chucklefish and then got ripped off.
 

Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,489
That's awful. The fact that Starbound was hugely successful makes it even worse.
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,636
Big yikes

That said there is going to be a lot of blaming a 16 year old in this thread, I can feel it
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,602
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long
If they were 16, maybe for the experience.
 

Landford

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,678
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long

He was sixteen. Fresh on the industry, working on a really prestige project that raised a fuckton of money on kickstarter.

Come on now.
 

BRSxIgnition

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
I was excited for eastward but. Chucklefish doing this leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 1849

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,986
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long
Impressionable kids working for experience to get into their dream job, before the realities of the industry have hit them. AKA: The prime targets for expoitation.

You really going to victim blame them?
 

dstarMDA

Member
Dec 22, 2017
4,346
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long

He was 16.
 

5taquitos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,946
OR
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long
Probably an unpaid internship.
 

Deleted member 29237

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Nov 1, 2017
803
This has been a hell of a week for shitty companies and people in gaming. A very sad state of affairs.

- Voidpoint / 3D Realms tolerance of hate speech
- Jeremy Soule (Skyrim, Guild Wars composer) rape accusations
- Alec Howolka (Night in the Woods coder) sexual assault allegations
- Michael Antolov (Oculus) sexual harassment allegations
- Telltale Games being brought back, but previous employees only bought on as contractors
- This
 

PlzUninstall

Member
Oct 30, 2017
563
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long
Young, inexperienced, exploited. Desperate to get into the industry. He was getting experience in something he loved and left worse off for it. Assuming this is true: damn shame that Chucklefish aren't one of the better ones, I would've thought they'd know better than to do this being a smaller studio - you'd think they'd be better at taking care of their own.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,515
UK
Sounds right? I vaguely remember some people I knew did work on this. I don't think they got paid either. I think it was more of a volunteer basis? It has been actual years.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,893
But why work to begin with if you're not getting paid? They're implying they were not even employed at the company..? Like who works for 2 years without getting any sort of compensation

Not saying they're in the wrong or Chucklefish is in the right - I just think it's odd that it happened for so long

Edit: Oh boy, the storm of quotes. What I mean is I wonder if they were promised something by Chucklefish etc. and then got ripped off
They explained it on that same tweeter thread. Young people usually do anything to get their place in the industry, including working for free or for very little.
 

Dyno

AVALANCHE
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,460
Damn. Love Starbound as well and was always hoping for a sequel :/
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
Here I was thinking Chucklefish were one of the few studios that actually has some integrity and credibility, especially after they spoke of how Sony were playing favorites and/or not allowing crossplay for certain devs etc.

Guess you dont really know a person or studio until you see how they treat the proverbial waiter serving you in a restaurant. It's easy for them to be the small fish when compared to giants like Bethesda or 2K. But in the big picture, their ALL bigger than us, the blue collar working our ass off. Highly disappointed in them.
 

PucePikmin

Member
Apr 26, 2018
3,863
As a freelancing vet of over a decade, these kind of stories make me sad inside.

Do...not...work...if...you're...not...getting...paid. If they miss one month, fuck on out of there, or at least stop working until you get your money. I've never not been paid for anything I've done, and I don't even consider myself particularly assertive. But I guess I am?
 
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5taquitos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,946
OR
As a freelancing vet of over a decade, these kind of stories make me sad inside.

Do...not...work...if...you're...not...getting...paid. If they miss one month, fuck on out of there, or at least stop working until you get your money. I've never not been paid for anything I've done, and I don't even consider myself particularly assertive. But I guess I am?
I don't think this is a case of freelancers/contractors not being paid as expected, but more how the studio exploited unpaid interns.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,112
Jesus why would anyone work for that long no matter the age and not ask for money out of it? I mean it would have been illegal and there's not really much they can do but.
 

Smokeymicpot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,856
Jesus why would anyone work for that long no matter the age and not ask for money out of it? I mean it would have been illegal and there's not really much they can do but.

They have a dream to work for a video game company and they decide to do it for free. So they are able to get their foot in the door.
 

Komo

Info Analyst
Verified
Jan 3, 2019
7,112
They have a dream to work for a video game company and they decide to do it for free. So they are able to get their foot in the door.
I mean honestly I would have stopped after the first week. Tho then again I've devoted hundreds of hours to fan projects which get shutdown so I can't really say too much.
 

Molten_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,569
I don't feel sorry for somebody who decided to work for so long without getting paid. That's your own damn fault, either leave or demand payment before returning to your work.

Not saying chuckle fish is in the right here (they're not) just be more responsible. I don't care if you're 16. Age isn't an excuse for stupidity.
 

TheIdiot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
I'd like to know more about this before offering my opinion. I mean, if the arrangement from the beginning specifically stated he wasn't getting paid and this developer signed and acknowledged it... it's not exactly the same now is it? Sure it's a shitty practice, but it's how some internships work unfortunately.

This has been a hell of a week for shitty companies and people in gaming. A very sad state of affairs.

- Voidpoint / 3D Realms tolerance of hate speech
- Jeremy Soule (Skyrim, Guild Wars composer) rape accusations
- Alec Howolka (Night in the Woods coder) sexual assault allegations
- Michael Antolov (Oculus) sexual harassment allegations
- Telltale Games being brought back, but previous employees only bought on as contractors
- This

We don't even really know the specifics about this, but even then, I wouldn't really lump this in with rape accusations. Kind of a different ballpark.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,059
Internships. Open ended free labor contracts. The world is built on the backs of the young. It's true and it sucks.
 

Toad King

Member
Oct 27, 2017
945
Chicago
Unpaid internships are scams. It's infuriating that people still think they're worth it for "experience". I even had my parents trying to get me to apply for unpaid positions when I was looking for work in college and they called me "too picky" when I said I would never do them.

Nobody should do unpaid internships anymore, and companies should be shamed for offering them.
 

ryan-ts

Member
Oct 25, 2017
131
The problem here is that Chucklefish decided this was appropriate. How do you decide that it's okay to have a 16 year old working their ass off for free? More than likely he was a naive kid, with no understanding of how he was being taken advantage of. "Oh I can't believe a child would let this happen to himself". Heaven forbid a kid trusts adults to have his best interests at heart.

All of you who are blaming the victim should take a step back.
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,701
probably hired on as an "intern". The crappy part about it is, there's someone else out there who's willing to work for free
 

beetlebum

Member
Nov 24, 2017
776
Brazil
I guess this is a reminder that companies in a fucked-up capitalist world will be companies in a fucked-up capitalist world, no matter how many lovely games they put out.
 

Council Pop

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Oct 27, 2017
1,328
The twitter thread doesn't go into any actual detail, so it's completely impossible to know what the situation actually was. But no unpaid internships last for two years. So the most likely scenario seems to be that they did an unpaid internship for Chucklefish (normal, still acceptable in the US sadly), but then somehow were able to continue working on the game, for free, after this internship ended. So there are big questions for Chucklefish on how exactly this was allowed to happen, assuming it actually did happen in that way.

While there is nothing unusual about an unpaid internship (unfortunately), it's incredible that someone could continue to contribute to a game without getting paid, after this period of glorified work experience had come to an end. There are serious safeguarding issues there, especially as the person involved was under 18. Who in Chucklefish was co-ordinating and delegating the work? Is there no legal regulation of unpaid work in the US? Someone at Chucklefish must have been saying "we need this work done- ok, we'll give it to this person who once interned for us, without paying". Even if that person is emailing every day saying "I want some experience! I'll do anything you want for free!", there needs to be ethical codes and legal regulation that absolutely prevents this from happening, rather than it being okay at the discretion of the developer.

If America's rigid class system means that unpaid internships are unlikely to disappear any time soon, they can at least be very heavily regulated.

This also highlights the educational role that trade unions need to play, and the importance of such education in high schools etc. You are always vulnerable as an employee, even if you're doing an internship and you're not expecting to get paid.
 

Dreamwriter

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
I'd like to know more about this before offering my opinion. I mean, if the arrangement from the beginning specifically stated he wasn't getting paid and this developer signed and acknowledged it... it's not exactly the same now is it? Sure it's a shitty practice, but it's how some internships work unfortunately.
Illegal internships. It is illegal in the US for a company to not pay minimum wage for work to anybody, regardless of agreement. The only legal unpaid interns are ones who aren't doing things productive for the company (the theory is the company has the intern working on extremely minor or even fake tasks so they can be educated on how the industry works from the inside). Unfortunately, it is common practice for companies to ignore the law when it comes to interns.
 

Deleted member 3082

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Oct 25, 2017
3,099
If I remember correctly, very early on in Starbound's development there were a ton of modders / community members who were doing really decent work, adding all sorts of interesting stuff to the game. It was a combination of hype, strong community support and maybe some naivety on the part of Chucklefish regarding legality and such.It was kind of the wild west, to this day, there are still DMCA violation notices for some of the larger mods like Frackin' Universe over people's work getting scooped up and used without their permission. There was a sense of "everybody in the pool" that maybe CF should have been more careful with.

That said, if this guy was actually doing a lot of heavy lifting, rather than just spending his free time making the game better as a member of the community, he should have gotten paid. It's hard to say though with just the tweets so obviously more details are required, but if true this really sucks. From the sound of tweets below it sounds like he should have been getting paid though.

Edit: Folks going on about the legal system in the US; Chucklefish is primarily set up in the UK, not sure how that changes things in regards to internships but they are definitely not an American company.
 
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OP
OP

Deleted member 1849

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Oct 25, 2017
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Chucklefish are a UK based company. Their main studios are in London.

Unless I'm missing something, not sure why you are talking about US labor laws. Do they have US based studios I'm not aware of?
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,490
Sounds like a standard internship, but he didn't get the job at the end?

He mentions two other people became full time employees. It sucks for him, I know the pain of doing one and not getting the job, but the experience is invaluable.
 

Calamari41

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,128
Honestly after the last year or two of stories, software development is going to be a field that I will actively steer my kids away from entertaining. "Learn to code" sounds like a trap to an outsider like me looking at this stuff. There seems to be a clear second part of that phrase being left out: "Learn to code so that our labor pool stays as large as possible, and we will be able to work these people half to death all while paying them peanuts"
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
I've been in an abusive workplace before and can attest that part of being abused in such an environment is having your sense of competence systematically eroded to the point where you feel like you don't deserve things you realize you did in hindsight.

In summary,