subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,252
What a waste of time lolol

People just get so angry over crypto and NFTs.

Big corporations are licking their lips at this because they are seeing the next thing to blame climate change on. And so far folks are ready to do just that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,247
The tl;dr is they're JSON files, usually referring to externally hosted media (such as images). The problem is that while the JSON files can't be edited (hence the 'non-fungible'), there's nothing to prevent the host of the media from editing or deleting the media the JSON files refer to. In addition, the overwhelming majority of NFTs don't involve any legal rights to the artwork in question, you just get the JSON file.

Thanks for trying to explain. I kind of get it haha
 

CrankyJay

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
Unless he can hack and change the record of who actually owns it then this is a big nothing burger.
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,293
China
"Guys. NFTs can be used for just so much more than that! Imagine concert tickets! Imagine unique items in Videogames! Imagine how much that could change the world."
"So. Where can I get that NFT concert ticket?
Guy with an ape/lion/pixel avatar always talking about gains:

632.jpg
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Thanks for trying to explain. I kind of get it haha
Ultimately, they're basically like inventory systems in an arbitrary multiplayer game, except hilariously less energy efficient and with IRS expecting users to pay capital gains tax on transactions. It's basically only really of interest right now to fraudsters and marks who are desperate to get rich quick, and when the cryptotaxes kick in the States the market will probably collapse (assuming Tether doesn't finally pop first).
 
OP
OP
Lightning Count
Jan 27, 2019
16,091
Fuck off
Ultimately, they're basically like inventory systems in an arbitrary multiplayer game, except hilariously less energy efficient and with IRS expecting users to pay capital gains tax on transactions. It's basically only really of interest right now to fraudsters and marks who are desperate to get rich quick, and when the cryptotaxes kick in the States the market will probably collapse (assuming Tether doesn't finally pop first).

I swear a lot of NFT sales are being used for money laundering. But yes once crytotaxes become a thing the bubble will likely burst.
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,019
Just like how I can look up the Mona Lisa in Google and just print a high res copy or go and have a look at it in the Louvre without having to own it. I still know who made it and who currently owns it. My access to it isn't limited.
The Mona Lisa is in a museum in France with a 15 Euro entry fee and opening hours. Your access to it is absolutely limited.

Digital assets are post-scarcity and we should be embracing that instead of trying to arbitrarily reimpose scarcity upon them.

Why are normal concert tickets not good enough anyway? lol
Why would I have a regular old concert ticket on a piece of paper or in a small database when I could have a cyber concert ticket that hundreds of dumbarses have to devote storage space and processing to for the next hundred years?
 

Yahsper

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,607
The Mona Lisa is in a museum in France with a 15 Euro entry fee and opening hours. Your access to it is absolutely limited.

Digital assets are post-scarcity and we should be embracing that instead of trying to arbitrarily reimpose scarcity upon them.
And I can also just look it up on Google or print it. I can even ask a forger to paint it and hang it up my wall.

NFT do not impose scarcity. It's not a bug or a huge 'GOTCHA' that you can just right click and save them. It's a way to see who is the original creator and current owner of a digital asset. Using it to sell or trade silly JPG's is a dumb, immature way to use it, but there's nothing inherently wrong with being able to track this in a digital space.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
And I can also just look it up on Google or print it. I can even ask a forger to paint it and hang it up my wall.

NFT do not impose scarcity. It's not a bug or a huge 'GOTCHA' that you can just right click and save them. It's a way to see who is the original creator and current owner of a digital asset. Using it to sell or trade silly JPG's is a dumb, immature way to use it, but there's nothing inherently wrong with being able to track this in a digital space.

The whole value of NFT's is that they DO impose scarcity. If there is no "original" there is no value. By designating an "original" (by linking it to a token) it is imposing scarcity for that token.

My problem with it is that NFT's in and of themselves don't confer ownership, if they do come with commercial rights there has to be an underlying contractual obligation or you own exactly nothing of worth. So there is no real benefit unless you have like government issued ledger licenses. Otherwise you're just adding another step.
 

Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,779
Personally I've been involved with a couple million dollars worth of NFT sales this year and I'm involved with all kinds of cool NFT projects that have utility in various fashions, I'm even designing an NFT collection currently in which the buyer does get a sublicense for the commercial rights to the media involved

Most of the criticisms towards NFTs are pretty dumb because it's an extremely open ended technology that can be almost anything, and can do basically almost anything too; NFTs with no utility do not actually sell for that much except for the "vintage" NFT collections from like 2017, the big selling NFT collections now all have an actual purpose one way or another, like unlocking content or being used to purchase something or to be staked to earn something

Here's a bunch of cool NFT collections that are not just a series of images:

thedogepoundnft.com

The Doge Pound is a collection of 10,000 unique Doge NFTs on Ethereum Blockchain.

The Doge Pound NFT, also called 'OG Doge' within the community, is a collection of 10,000 NFTs (Non-Fungible Tokens) on the Ethereum blockchain. Every OG Doge grants members-only benefits, including early access to new releases from our gaming studio & partners, upcoming P2E games, conferences...
www.cryptokitties.co

CryptoKitties | Collect and breed digital cats!

Collect and trade CryptoKitties in one of the world’s first blockchain games. Breed your rarest cats to create the purrfect furry friend. The future is meow!
www.cyberkongz.com

CyberKongz

Welcome to an alternate reality, where evolution took a different route and weird apes roam the earth. Some appear normal. Some look weird. And some are just damn cool! Every CyberKong is unique and owns randomized items with different rarities.

Hashplants

Digitaly cultivated NFTs
worldofwomen.art

Home - World of Women

World of Women: A community celebrating representation, inclusivity, and equal opportunities for all. United by a first-of-its-kind collection, featuring 10,000 artworks of diverse and powerful women.

Many of these NFT Collections above actually do give commercial rights to the buyers, have multiple functions, change over time, can be "bred" together to make new NFTs, and in general just have a broad road map of all kinds of features involved with the NFTs themselves beyond just being an image. I do not think the randos in here jumping on and hating NFTs are aware of how expansive and rapidly growing this space actually is, and to be honest, I've made this exact type of post like 5 times here on this board and still see the same people taking a dump on NFTs without probably even reading this post

It's possible to know about everything you just said and still think it's ducking stupid, because in my opinion it IS fucking stupid. Their just beanie babies, decentralized, digital beanie babies with light software features, but still just beanie babies.
 

Yahsper

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,607
The whole value of NFT's is that they DO impose scarcity. If there is no "original" there is no value. By designating an "original" (by linking it to a token) it is imposing scarcity for that token.

My problem with it is that NFT's in and of themselves don't confer ownership, if they do come with commercial rights there has to be an underlying contractual obligation or you own exactly nothing of worth. So there is no real benefit unless you have like government issued ledger licenses. Otherwise you're just adding another step.
Sure, the original is scarce. I guess I meant it doesn't impose scarcity by limiting access to the asset.

I think we agree about when NFT's do gain value (in both monetary value and usefulness) is when they are programmed with smart contracts. I'm personally convinced that at one point, alot of administration like house deeds, personal ownership, etc, will all be registered on a blockchain used by governments and banks. For instance, my house deed, of which there is only one, is linked to my personal account as an NFT, tracked by a blockchain ledger under government supervision, and smart contracts manage the transfer and sale of my house to another account. It removes some middle men from the equation and eases up on administrative tasks on both my end and the government. We're still a long way from that, but it's still very early and people are currently just playing with a newly found toy trading their JPG NFTs.

Not to say I don't understand what people are doing. The energy use is baffling though PoS will help ALOT and there are alot of grifters (though alot of people in the crypto community also despite the current use of NFTs because it detracts attention from actual useful usage. There's just a very loud minority getting rich).

But for instance, my dad was active in the art world for a while. At my home we have a lot of abstract works from artists who made multiple silkscreens of an artwork. I have always compared the current usage of NFT's to those. I personally don't see much difference between having 'silkscreen nr. 7 out of 50 of an artwork' hanging on our wall with a certificate of authenticity somewhere in a dusty drawer and having an asset in a digital space that can easily be copied with a certificate of authenticity somewhere stored on a blockchain.
 

Mukrab

Banned
Apr 19, 2020
7,712
Wow. I dont care about art NFTs but really? Some of you really think that NFTs cant be copied? The ID cant, not the image. If an NFT is worth 10k it doesnt mean that your copy of it is worth that. Its worthless without the id. Just like people can copy like literally everything and it doesnt make it the same as the original.
 
OP
OP
Lightning Count
Jan 27, 2019
16,091
Fuck off
Wow. I dont care about art NFTs but really? Some of you really think that NFTs cant be copied? The ID cant, not the image. If an NFT is worth 10k it doesnt mean that your copy of it is worth that. Its worthless without the id. Just like people can copy like literally everything and it doesnt make it the same as the original.

You've got this the wrong way round, the ID/ownership token is worthless because it cannot be enforced.
 

N64Controller

Member
Nov 2, 2017
8,505
Personally I've been involved with a couple million dollars worth of NFT sales this year and I'm involved with all kinds of cool NFT projects that have utility in various fashions, I'm even designing an NFT collection currently in which the buyer does get a sublicense for the commercial rights to the media involved

Most of the criticisms towards NFTs are pretty dumb because it's an extremely open ended technology that can be almost anything, and can do basically almost anything too; NFTs with no utility do not actually sell for that much except for the "vintage" NFT collections from like 2017, the big selling NFT collections now all have an actual purpose one way or another, like unlocking content or being used to purchase something or to be staked to earn something

Here's a bunch of cool NFT collections that are not just a series of images:

thedogepoundnft.com

The Doge Pound is a collection of 10,000 unique Doge NFTs on Ethereum Blockchain.

The Doge Pound NFT, also called 'OG Doge' within the community, is a collection of 10,000 NFTs (Non-Fungible Tokens) on the Ethereum blockchain. Every OG Doge grants members-only benefits, including early access to new releases from our gaming studio & partners, upcoming P2E games, conferences...
www.cryptokitties.co

CryptoKitties | Collect and breed digital cats!

Collect and trade CryptoKitties in one of the world’s first blockchain games. Breed your rarest cats to create the purrfect furry friend. The future is meow!
www.cyberkongz.com

CyberKongz

Welcome to an alternate reality, where evolution took a different route and weird apes roam the earth. Some appear normal. Some look weird. And some are just damn cool! Every CyberKong is unique and owns randomized items with different rarities.

Hashplants

Digitaly cultivated NFTs
worldofwomen.art

Home - World of Women

World of Women: A community celebrating representation, inclusivity, and equal opportunities for all. United by a first-of-its-kind collection, featuring 10,000 artworks of diverse and powerful women.

Many of these NFT Collections above actually do give commercial rights to the buyers, have multiple functions, change over time, can be "bred" together to make new NFTs, and in general just have a broad road map of all kinds of features involved with the NFTs themselves beyond just being an image. I do not think the randos in here jumping on and hating NFTs are aware of how expansive and rapidly growing this space actually is, and to be honest, I've made this exact type of post like 5 times here on this board and still see the same people taking a dump on NFTs without probably even reading this post

There is absolutely nothing that you couldn't do without NFTs in the links you've proposed here. All of them have at their core have these shitty, poorly made avatars that are devoid of style, substance and any worth as art. It's a club, you get perks for being part of it. You can buy stuff. I don't get what your post is supposed to prove here. Did you just link to projects you personally support or are a part of? Are you hashplant gang? Are you a Kongz?

Your post isn't any different from every other NFT posts out there. Every single time someone tries to post anything about NFTs and about how they're not "just" images, they're not "just" club memberships, they end up posting something that just furthers that belief. The World of Women one was particularly funny because you reach "THE TEAM" part and you see 3 out of 4 people using their shitty Ape or Punk avatars, one of them having in his bio "BELIEVES IN NFTs" and another has the title of APEFLUENCER.

I'm sorry, but all of this is redflag factory. I've screwed up my Youtube and overall Google algorithms these past few weeks by looking and searching and reading about NFTs. All these projects portray themselves as different, as more. All of them have the vast majority of their community saying "OMG IT'S MORE THAN THE PICTURE" and yet all you see is fucking pictures and profile pics and avatars on Discord. Then they tell you RIGHT CLICK SAVE is a meme, doesn't change anything. Then they get unironically mad when people rightclick save their stuff. It's all that happens, all the time. Then you see pictures of their eventual parties where they talk about how amazing of a club it is and how welcoming it is.

I don't think people are ignoring your post, just not entertaining you with a quote because of how silly it sounds. Maybe some feel bad for you, or just don't click on the links because they fear it might give their computer STDs.

NFT influencers like yourself are pretty horrible at explaining what NFTs can actually do outside of providing a shitty profile pic. All your posts are always the same. You either mock people for not knowing, or just link to the same links, the same arguments, the same ideas, the same prepared speeches about NFTs. If you're so into it and you're so knowledgeable about how important and different it is, why is it so hard for you guys to provide any fucking explanation as to what you mean? It's never there! You never link actually useful links or talk about actual application. All we get is links towards projects, that talk about inane applications like having access to parties or being able to have a shirt made out of your ape or promises that their NFTs will be usable in videogames. "TAKE A LOOK AT THIS 5024523529575892739523 CHARACTERS FIGHTING GAME WITH ALL ORIGINAL CHARACTERS!".

Like, fuck. If "most of the criticism towards NFTs" is dumb, then say why. Don't just link to links. Don't just spew the same bullshit ALL NFT grifters are spewing. All you're doing is complaining that people don't understand, and then you don't explain anything.
 

UltimusXI

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,001
Wow. I dont care about art NFTs but really? Some of you really think that NFTs cant be copied? The ID cant, not the image. If an NFT is worth 10k it doesnt mean that your copy of it is worth that. Its worthless without the id. Just like people can copy like literally everything and it doesnt make it the same as the original.
So who decides which ID is the 'real' ownership ID of a piece of art? I mean, I assume the ID incorporates the hash of the image and the current time, so you could own the first / best image version, but what if I have a lower (or higher) res version of the image and try to create an NFT out of that?

So if like in this piracy case, I take all images, downsize them to like 90% of the image quality / pixels, maybe change the composition a bit, would I be able to register the ownership of those images to me? Who decides or knows if the original owner allowed me to do that? Will 'my versions' be blocked from being registered or somehow marked as copies?
 

Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,779
by that logic movies, tv shows and music are scams because people can pirate them for free too

Also this post is ridiculous, movies, tv shows and music get their value from their entertainment value, NFTs get their value because some dudes say they have value and spent money on it. It's all a fucking get rich quick scheme that will eventually blow up in someone's face.

Sure, the original is scarce. I guess I meant it doesn't impose scarcity by limiting access to the asset.

I think we agree about when NFT's do gain value (in both monetary value and usefulness) is when they are programmed with smart contracts. I'm personally convinced that at one point, alot of administration like house deeds, personal ownership, etc, will all be registered on a blockchain used by governments and banks. For instance, my house deed, of which there is only one, is linked to my personal account as an NFT, tracked by a blockchain ledger under government supervision, and smart contracts manage the transfer and sale of my house to another account. It removes some middle men from the equation and eases up on administrative tasks on both my end and the government. We're still a long way from that, but it's still very early and people are currently just playing with a newly found toy trading their JPG NFTs.

Not to say I don't understand what people are doing. The energy use is baffling though PoS will help ALOT and there are alot of grifters (though alot of people in the crypto community also despite the current use of NFTs because it detracts attention from actual useful usage. There's just a very loud minority getting rich).

But for instance, my dad was active in the art world for a while. At my home we have a lot of abstract works from artists who made multiple silkscreens of an artwork. I have always compared the current usage of NFT's to those. I personally don't see much difference between having 'silkscreen nr. 7 out of 50 of an artwork' hanging on our wall with a certificate of authenticity somewhere in a dusty drawer and having an asset in a digital space that can easily be copied with a certificate of authenticity somewhere stored on a blockchain.

I don't think anyone's issue is with the existence of the technology but how it's being applied currently. I think you'll be hard pressed to find people who take issue with a digital record of ownership existing for a real world asset sometime in the future. People are just annoyed with evangelists talking about how smart they were for paying 6 grand for a hash value confirming they own a picture to some butt ugly art, access to a discord server and promises orders of magnitude sketchier than the mighty number 9 kickstarter.
 
Last edited:

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Personally I've been involved with a couple million dollars worth of NFT sales this year and I'm involved with all kinds of cool NFT projects that have utility in various fashions, I'm even designing an NFT collection currently in which the buyer does get a sublicense for the commercial rights to the media involved

Most of the criticisms towards NFTs are pretty dumb because it's an extremely open ended technology that can be almost anything, and can do basically almost anything too; NFTs with no utility do not actually sell for that much except for the "vintage" NFT collections from like 2017, the big selling NFT collections now all have an actual purpose one way or another, like unlocking content or being used to purchase something or to be staked to earn something

Here's a bunch of cool NFT collections that are not just a series of images:

thedogepoundnft.com

The Doge Pound is a collection of 10,000 unique Doge NFTs on Ethereum Blockchain.

The Doge Pound NFT, also called 'OG Doge' within the community, is a collection of 10,000 NFTs (Non-Fungible Tokens) on the Ethereum blockchain. Every OG Doge grants members-only benefits, including early access to new releases from our gaming studio & partners, upcoming P2E games, conferences...
www.cryptokitties.co

CryptoKitties | Collect and breed digital cats!

Collect and trade CryptoKitties in one of the world’s first blockchain games. Breed your rarest cats to create the purrfect furry friend. The future is meow!
www.cyberkongz.com

CyberKongz

Welcome to an alternate reality, where evolution took a different route and weird apes roam the earth. Some appear normal. Some look weird. And some are just damn cool! Every CyberKong is unique and owns randomized items with different rarities.

Hashplants

Digitaly cultivated NFTs
worldofwomen.art

Home - World of Women

World of Women: A community celebrating representation, inclusivity, and equal opportunities for all. United by a first-of-its-kind collection, featuring 10,000 artworks of diverse and powerful women.

Many of these NFT Collections above actually do give commercial rights to the buyers, have multiple functions, change over time, can be "bred" together to make new NFTs, and in general just have a broad road map of all kinds of features involved with the NFTs themselves beyond just being an image. I do not think the randos in here jumping on and hating NFTs are aware of how expansive and rapidly growing this space actually is, and to be honest, I've made this exact type of post like 5 times here on this board and still see the same people taking a dump on NFTs without probably even reading this post
This is from the World of Women license

The Owner acknowledges and agrees that the Creator remains the sole author of the Art. The Creator
owns all legal rights, including all intellectual property rights, titles and interests in and to the
underlying Art. It is expressly acknowledged and agreed upon that the Art shall at all times remain the
sole property of the Creator. In no event shall this License assign, license, or otherwise transfer any
rights on the Art to the Owner.

The Creator shall have the rights to, including but not limited to, reproduce, adapt, modify, use,
perform, display, publish, distribute, sale and duplicate the Art, in whole or in part, for any purpose
whatsoever, including commercial, by any media and means whether now known or hereafter
devised. In particular, the Creator shall have the right to revise, edit, manipulate, add to, create and
exploit derivative works thereof, use or not use the Art, and to distribute and exploit the Art in any
manner and any medium it may choose.

...
The Owner shall not, nor permit any third party to, do or attempt to do any of the foregoing without the
Creator's express prior written consent in each case:
Infringe, in any way whatsoever, the Creator's moral rights on the Complete Art (including right of
authorship, right of withdrawal, right to the integrity of the Complete Art, as defined under French
law), and in particular use or exploit the Complete Art, in any way whatsoever, without crediting
the Creator;
So basically, the people who made all of the PNGs that are linked to the NFTs continue to own them and can do whatever they want with them with no input whatsoever from the people who have purchased the NFTs. But if they do manage to find some way of commercializing these ugly PNGs and you buy one, they promise to pay you 50%. Nice "ownership" lol

Edit: In fact, I don't think anything here precludes them from going off and making World of Women 2 on a different blockchain using the exact same images. After all, buying an NFT doesn't give you rights to the Art, just the Complete Art with metadata attached.
 
Last edited:

Dakkon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,491
...

I get that ResetERA hates everything blockchain related but there is such a fundamental misunderstanding about what NFT's actually are that it's just painful to read sometimes. And honestly, most misunderstanding stems from Resetera always piling unto any effort to actually inform anyone.

NFT's are a means to distinguish ownership of a digital asset. Currently, these are silly JPG's but it can be anything. They are not a way to make it impossible to copy anything. It's not an anti-piracy measure. So your example actually nails down what NFT's are for: to figure out what's the original and who owns it in a digital world where there is no physical aspect to examine. Just like how I can look up the Mona Lisa in Google and just print a high res copy or go and have a look at it in the Louvre without having to own it. I still know who made it and who currently owns it. My access to it isn't limited.

Mind you, the current use of NFT's is absolutely useless and a waste of energy (though I do believe it'll be useful in a world that will evolve to become ever more digital). But at least try to understand what you're criticizing.

Look I'm super old and dumb, so this is a real question and not trolling.

How is this any different from something like the Steam Inventory in sayyyyy, Team Fortress 2. In case if you don't play it:

* players can acquire copies of items that are attached to their accounts by playing the game or spending either real money or steam wallet on them in a store.

* these items are a combination of art and gameplay content as they give you access to weapons or cosmetics in the game but can be displayed on your Steam Profile.

* these items can be sold/traded for Steam Wallet cash (which can be traded out for real world cash on some websites by gifting stuff in exchange for paypal) or other items with other players.

* the original creators of that item get a special Self Made version so everyone knows/can find out who made the actual item, so the original is different from the copies.

* uses fuck all energy to do any of this

Because for the life of me I can't wrap my head around how NFT's are any different...and if they aren't then uhhh, why use so much energy to do something that can already be replicated in a much more energy efficient way. It's not like it's particularly hard to identify a piece of digital content as an original and assign it to someone with an account based system while everyone else can only get a slightly different version of it.
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,019
But it's the same picture is it not? Like, the same pixels, the same colors... What is different
When you screenshot an image it's recompressed and potentially resized, so it won't be exactly the same file. If you save the source file it's as identical as two digital files can be.

I think we agree about when NFT's do gain value (in both monetary value and usefulness) is when they are programmed with smart contracts. I'm personally convinced that at one point, alot of administration like house deeds, personal ownership, etc, will all be registered on a blockchain used by governments and banks. For instance, my house deed, of which there is only one, is linked to my personal account as an NFT, tracked by a blockchain ledger under government supervision, and smart contracts manage the transfer and sale of my house to another account. It removes some middle men from the equation and eases up on administrative tasks on both my end and the government. We're still a long way from that, but it's still very early and people are currently just playing with a newly found toy trading their JPG NFTs.
I see this use case come up a lot but I'm incredibly skeptical that the system can be useful and robust enough to see adoption. If the government is able to supervise the deed then what's the point of having it on-chain? On the other hand if the government isn't able to exert control over the deed then it would be ludicrous for them to recognise its legitimacy.

But for instance, my dad was active in the art world for a while. At my home we have a lot of abstract works from artists who made multiple silkscreens of an artwork. I have always compared the current usage of NFT's to those. I personally don't see much difference between having 'silkscreen nr. 7 out of 50 of an artwork' hanging on our wall with a certificate of authenticity somewhere in a dusty drawer and having an asset in a digital space that can easily be copied with a certificate of authenticity somewhere stored on a blockchain.
The most obvious difference is that physical copies are unique and will always be unique, digital copies aren't. How much stock you place in that varies from person to person and medium to medium. Of course if artists have started embedding the numbers into the actual image while I haven't been paying attention that's a different story, but stamping a series of identical copies with a number still doesn't quite have the same appeal to me.
 
Last edited:

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
By 'not a screenshot' I mean 'it hasn't gone through an additional pass of JPG compression'. It's the exact file.
The hash and filesize.
When you screenshot an image it's recompressed and potentially resized, so it won't be exactly the same file. If you save the source file it's as identical as two digital files can be.
When I screenshot an image in Firefox (using the browser's screenshotting feature, not Print Screen nor "right-click save"), it's saved to .png format, i.e. it's not recompressed
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,069
When I screenshot an image in Firefox (using the browser's screenshotting feature, not Print Screen nor "right-click save"), it's saved to .png format, i.e. it's not recompressed
Check the hash and filesize of both.

They'll be different. Filetype has pretty much nothing to do with it.

In 'digital' lingo -- the image has been altered.
He solved it! He solved how to actually copy NFTs perfectly without any issue.
lol
he-admit-it-admit-it.gif
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever™
Member
Sep 24, 2019
35,024
When are folks going to realize that nobody needs a crash course on NFTs and that people are making fun of them (and their evangelists) with all of the requisite knowledge? The narrative that if somebody makes fun of NFTs means that they don't understand them is an extremely old bit that's not rooted in reality. Stop acting like you're on the avant-garde of tech and that we need a lesson lol
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
When I screenshot an image in Firefox (using the browser's screenshotting feature, not Print Screen nor "right-click save"), it's saved to .png format, i.e. it's not recompressed
True, but doing it that way re-samples the image after it's gone through the browser's rendering pipeline and won't be guaranteed to be using the same PNG compression settings as the original. The pixels will probably be slightly different and the underlying binary in the compressed images will almost certainly be.
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,069
I didn't say filetype (aka extension), I said (file) format
Well you mentioned compression which I didn't mention at all and quoted me lol
Point is, the filesize and hash will be different. It's that simple. It's a matter of fact.

Getting into filetype and file format is... I have no clue what your point is to be honest, man lol

I'm just explaining that it wouldn't be the same. Das it.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,652
...

I get that ResetERA hates everything blockchain related but there is such a fundamental misunderstanding about what NFT's actually are that it's just painful to read sometimes. And honestly, most misunderstanding stems from Resetera always piling unto any effort to actually inform anyone.

NFT's are a means to distinguish ownership of a digital asset. Currently, these are silly JPG's but it can be anything. They are not a way to make it impossible to copy anything. It's not an anti-piracy measure. So your example actually nails down what NFT's are for: to figure out what's the original and who owns it in a digital world where there is no physical aspect to examine. Just like how I can look up the Mona Lisa in Google and just print a high res copy or go and have a look at it in the Louvre without having to own it. I still know who made it and who currently owns it. My access to it isn't limited.

Mind you, the current use of NFT's is absolutely useless and a waste of energy (though I do believe it'll be useful in a world that will evolve to become ever more digital). But at least try to understand what you're criticizing.

Picture of the Mona Lisa and the actual Mona Lisa aren't remotely the same thing.

You might think you can explain NFTs but you clearly can't explain art.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,752
United States
...

I get that ResetERA hates everything blockchain related but there is such a fundamental misunderstanding about what NFT's actually are that it's just painful to read sometimes. And honestly, most misunderstanding stems from Resetera always piling unto any effort to actually inform anyone.

NFT's are a means to distinguish ownership of a digital asset. Currently, these are silly JPG's but it can be anything. They are not a way to make it impossible to copy anything. It's not an anti-piracy measure. So your example actually nails down what NFT's are for: to figure out what's the original and who owns it in a digital world where there is no physical aspect to examine. Just like how I can look up the Mona Lisa in Google and just print a high res copy or go and have a look at it in the Louvre without having to own it. I still know who made it and who currently owns it. My access to it isn't limited.

Mind you, the current use of NFT's is absolutely useless and a waste of energy (though I do believe it'll be useful in a world that will evolve to become ever more digital). But at least try to understand what you're criticizing.

I know you have other replies after this one and I have read them. I actually do understand what you are saying here and over the course of your posts. But I think there's an issue with your posts that is worth challenging that also summarizes some of the tension with blockchain technology in general. There is theory, of what the technology could be used for, and there is the reality, of what the technology is being used for right now.

You are correct that there are theoretical applications for NFTs to represent deeds, licenses, and rights. Some of these things might even be practical, useful, and good. However the reality of NFTs is they are exclusively being used to promote arbitrary ownership of mass produced commercial images. This is the brand of the technology. This is the image of the technology. And right now, this is also the reality of the technology. So when people react to the technology and its applications, it is not really reasonable to expect people to overlook the immediate reality of the tech in favor of thinking broadly and respect hypothetical applications instead. Because even if the technology could be used to transfer ownership of deeds, titles, and licenses, it is not being used for that. People hate what is is being used for. When that is the only thing the technology is being used for, it is not unreasonable to condemn the technology.

Everything NFTs are being used for right now, and the concept of the technology being promoted by its early adopters, undermines what you believe are its longterm practical applications. All of the talking points of NFT art collectors inspire very little confidence in the legitimacy and longevity of the tech because everything they believe is predicated on insular, manufactured concepts of ownership and authenticity. They are not concepts that people broadly agree with or support - they are, in fact, concepts people vehemently oppose. So when people go on to say how the technology can be used for other more important things as well, people have no trust in those ideas because the proof of concept has gone, and continues to go, absolutely terribly.


Your tone about how people do not understand what they're criticizing is also part of the problem here. Critics of this technology and how it is being used think its proselytes are deranged, detached, and delusional. The art is hideous. The concept of ownership is totally artificial. The attempt to impose limitations on something previously unlimited on the internet is seen as ideologically heinous. People involved with the market for these tokens are universally either deeply dishonest or exceedingly naive. People view NFT proponents so negatively because their perspective is so unrelatable and so offputting that the only possible response is hostility or hilarity. So when NFT champions say that the masses just don't get it and don't understand what they're criticizing, it just contributes further to this idea that their way of thinking is unique entirely to them and cannot be reconciled with reality.

Because the reality, right now, is that NFTs are being forced in to spaces that people find objectionable and offensive and it does a very poor job proving the hypothetical applications in the future that might be better. So it's not that people don't get it, it's that it doesn't matter because that's not the reality we live in.

I keep tweaking this to try not to come across as hostile but I'm also trying to demonstrate the intensity of people's opposition to the way the technology is used. So I will pad the post and try to clarify that I am trying to demonstrate hostility towards the concepts, not towards you personally. I hope that comes across clearly.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,652
And I can also just look it up on Google or print it. I can even ask a forger to paint it and hang it up my wall.

NFT do not impose scarcity. It's not a bug or a huge 'GOTCHA' that you can just right click and save them. It's a way to see who is the original creator and current owner of a digital asset. Using it to sell or trade silly JPG's is a dumb, immature way to use it, but there's nothing inherently wrong with being able to track this in a digital space.

Ah yes "I can just get a forger to make me a Mona Lisa"... but it is us critics of NFTs who don't get it.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,652
Though it really kind of illuminates a sort of illusionary thinking to justify the value of NFTs when you speak of high res images and forgeries of the Mona Lisa as being the Mona Lisa
 

Stalker

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,815
You guys don't understand thou, NFT's have so many applications. We don't actually know those applications or why they need to be blockchain secured but they do. Please understand.
 

E.Balboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,518
Florianópolis, Brazil
When are folks going to realize that nobody needs a crash course on NFTs and that people are making fun of them (and their evangelists) with all of the requisite knowledge? The narrative that if somebody makes fun of NFTs means that they don't understand them is an extremely old bit that's not rooted in reality. Stop acting like you're on the avant-garde of tech and that we need a lesson lol
That's pretty much it.
I know the basics of NFT enough and that's precisely why I make fun of it. Not the other way around.

It only exists as a mean of profiting. That's it. Anything can be sold if there's someone who values it enough. Much better if there is a group of people competing for it. Right now, all that NFT evangelists do is try to increase demand on these worthless digital items hoping that enough people will buy into the scheme. The whole system depends on it.

This whole system is so damn dumb and the fact that you've found someone stupid enough to pay you big sums of money for this shit doesn't proof that it's valuable, only that you've found someone guillible enough.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,652
That's pretty much it.
I know the basics of NFT enough and that's precisely why I make fun of it. Not the other way around.

It only exists as a mean of profiting. That's it. Anything can be sold if there's someone who values it enough. Much better if there is a group of people competing for it. Right now, all that NFT evangelists do is try to increase demand on these worthless digital items hoping that enough people will buy into the scheme. The whole system depends on it.

This whole system is so damn dumb and the fact that you've found someone stupid enough to pay you big sums of money for this shit doesn't proof that it's valuable, only that you've found someone guillible enough.

But brah you can always forge the Mona Lisa ... you can't forge the blockchain on HatsuneMikuOnAPogoStick.png it's just way more valuable.