A modest proposal: No smartphones for kids

ArrogantBastard · Mar 23, 2024

Galactic Specter said:
Telling kids to put away phones during class time is easy...

You sweet summer child.

Jakisthe said:
Which is impossible.

You keep using this word...

People in here are saying wait until 10-13, the OP is saying wait till 13/14. They will be fine.

Parents are just going to give them device at 11 or w/e and aren't remotely going to know how to utilize any of the tools to restrict and limit apps, screen time, etc. It isn't a good idea, obviously no one is talking about a mandate it is just general advice from the perspective of an individual who is focusing on development. It isn't remotely a controversial opinion.

Hollywood Duo · Mar 23, 2024

Jakisthe said:
Right, and then they get ostracized and find a way to get an internet enabled second hand iPod for themselves which they don't tell their parents about and access with public WiFi. What do you imagine they'd talk about with their smart-phone packing peers?

"Don't buy it for them" - they buy it for themselves, and don't tell you
"Monitor their savings" - they'd find a way to get cash or borrow a spare from a friend
"Firewall the WiFi" - they find another network, and don't tell you

It's like you guys were never kids trying to find ways around your parents restrictions, or that they would somehow never hear from their friends how great it is.

Some kids who have engaged parents actually follow the rules.

Tagyhag · Mar 23, 2024

I've said this before in this forum.

While this may be anecdotal for one county, LA County is pretty big:

As someone in the education field, those of you championing giving kids electronics as early as possible are going to be absolutely shocked at how stunted their educational and social growth will be in 5-10 years.

We're already seeing it with graduated high schoolers, they can't do anything by themselves and also severely struggle with technology that's not touchscreen.

And it's just getting worse as you go down the grades, we have a very bad experienced teacher shortage in LA County in middle/high school because they realize how fucked these kids are.

We have an aide shortage in the Infant-PREK field due to them quitting immediately due to the kids' behaviors, on average, we have more aide injuries from violent kids than in the past 10 years.

It wasn't like this before. I know it's easy to just be like "Meh, every generation says the same thing!" But we have REAL statistics about this, it's not just word of mouth anymore.

Although one thing always stays the same, parents thinking they know better than licensed educators/doctors, even Millennials are guilty of this shit. Hell, ESPECIALLY Millennials. "We won't make the same mistakes of the last generations!" No, you're just making brand new ones, dumbasses.

It's actually kind of scary and it's making me move away from this field because they have not been getting better. I can't even IMAGINE the COVID generation when they graduate.

BeastmodeDynasty · Mar 23, 2024

Transistor said:
Agree 100%. It's too ingrained in culture at this point.

NinjaScooter said:
its a nice thought but the toothpaste is probably already out of the tube on this.

Schools have the authority to ban smartphones usage while on property/during lessons. That's not "too ingrained in culture", there's absolutely viable, practical solutions here.

From a parenting perspective it might be too ingrained for some families. Education about the dangers and giving parenting advice is the only solution on that front.

BeastmodeDynasty · Mar 23, 2024

Jakisthe said:
What's all this about unrestricted access? Again, it's "no smartphones *AT ALL*"

Which is impossible.

I'm saying the current reality is most kids have unrestricted access at home and at school.

Royalan · Mar 23, 2024

Goodlifr said:
I mean they won't die, but they won't be alright

My sister didn't give her kids a smartphone until they were 13.

I can report they're quite alright.

ironichaos · Mar 23, 2024

I think he did a better job arguing the case in this podcast.

Recommend giving it a listen.

‎Hard Fork: Justice Dept. Sues Apple + Smartphones and Children with Jonathan Haidt + Reddit’s IPO on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Hard Fork, Ep Justice Dept. Sues Apple + Smartphones and Children with Jonathan Haidt + Reddit’s IPO - Mar 22, 2024

podcasts.apple.com

Jakisthe · Mar 23, 2024

BeastmodeDynasty said:
I'm saying the current reality is most kids have unrestricted access at home and at school.

Ok, but the proposal, and the one I said was impossible, was no smartphones at all.

ArrogantBastard · Mar 23, 2024

Royalan said:
My sister didn't give her kids a smartphone until they were 13.

I can report they're quite alright.

Not possible, you see if a child doesn't get a smart phone they are 100% going to get bullied and not have friends. They will be socially stunted, there isn't any evidence of this, all the while we have evidence of exactly the opposite on the harms of giving children access to a smart phone.

Lozjam · Mar 23, 2024

Typical American Adults
-takes away all of child independence, and makes it illegal for kids to be out on their own and develop themselves
-take away all third spaces for kids
-kids finally have a way to interact with each other
-let's ban that instead so kids have no way to socialize, no where to be, the only thing they have is school and a huge list of extracurriculars that exhaust them and builds onset anxiety by the time they are 12.

To be frank, that's a bad plan.

Now something does need to be done about smart phones. But children need to have access to third places, safe spaces, where they can have some independence, develop friendships, and just be without Karen's calling CPS.

MazeHaze · Mar 23, 2024

My dad stuck with flip phones for so long but we eventually had to upgrade him to a smart phone simply because of cost. They don't make money on the phones they make money on the data plans, so they definitely don't want you to buy a flip phone, so they are extremely expensive compared to all the deals on smartphones. This was a few years ago so maybe the landscape is different but it was basically throwing away hundreds of dollars to buy a flip phone instead of a smart phone. Also they aren't producing any where even close to enough of them to have the kind of margins that they did in the flip phone era so I imagine it is basically a money pit to even sell/make/carry the things.

ArrogantBastard · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
Typical American Adults
-takes away all of child independence, and makes it illegal for kids to be out on their own and develop themselves
-take away all third spaces for kids
-kids finally have a way to interact with each other
-let's ban that instead so kids have no way to socialize, no where to be, the only thing they have is school and a huge list of extracurriculars that exhaust them and builds onset anxiety by the time they are 12.

To be frank, that's a bad plan.

Now something does need to be done about smart phones. But children need to have access to third places, safe spaces, where they can have some independence, develop friendships, and just be without Karen's calling CPS.

Typical American Adults, good line.

Now, I'm sure you are going to demonstrate with evidence how increased smart phone use is actually healthy for children. The overwhelming evidence demonstrates that these devices are a net negative and should be limited.

Honestly, I don't know how a single child made it prior to social media and the Iphone. It was akin to the neolithic revolution.

ClickyCal' · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
Typical American Adults
-takes away all of child independence, and makes it illegal for kids to be out on their own and develop themselves
-take away all third spaces for kids
-kids finally have a way to interact with each other
-let's ban that instead so kids have no way to socialize, no where to be, the only thing they have is school and a huge list of extracurriculars that exhaust them and builds onset anxiety by the time they are 12.

To be frank, that's a bad plan.

Now something does need to be done about smart phones. But children need to have access to third places, safe spaces, where they can have some independence, develop friendships, and just be without Karen's calling CPS.

Yeah I'm American...but I agree with all of this. People aren't seeing through trees with one on how important these lifelines are kids.

Hollywood Duo · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
Typical American Adults
-takes away all of child independence, and makes it illegal for kids to be out on their own and develop themselves
-take away all third spaces for kids
-kids finally have a way to interact with each other
-let's ban that instead so kids have no way to socialize, no where to be, the only thing they have is school and a huge list of extracurriculars that exhaust them and builds onset anxiety by the time they are 12.

To be frank, that's a bad plan.

Now something does need to be done about smart phones. But children need to have access to third places, safe spaces, where they can have some independence, develop friendships, and just be without Karen's calling CPS.

where is it illegal for middle school age kids to be out alone? Like my kids school district allows kids in 3rd grade and up go to and from school by themselves.

TechnicPuppet · Mar 23, 2024

My son has had a smart phone since he was 7 and he doesn't give a damn about it. Can't even get him to reply to a message when he's staying at his grans. Neither me or his mum use social media though. He just uses it for playing games and watching YouTube occasionally.

BeastmodeDynasty · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
Typical American Adults
-takes away all of child independence, and makes it illegal for kids to be out on their own and develop themselves
-take away all third spaces for kids
-kids finally have a way to interact with each other
-let's ban that instead so kids have no way to socialize, no where to be, the only thing they have is school and a huge list of extracurriculars that exhaust them and builds onset anxiety by the time they are 12.

To be frank, that's a bad plan.

Now something does need to be done about smart phones. But children need to have access to third places, safe spaces, where they can have some independence, develop friendships, and just be without Karen's calling CPS.

You clearly didn't read the article or the OP. The researcher is a big proponent of independence and outright says "Give kids far more free play and independence, including more and better recess" as a direct solution. He's anti-helicopter parenting.

SmackDaddy · Mar 23, 2024

BeastmodeDynasty said:
What benefits do smartphones provide? They aren't improving education, conversely they're just leading to higher rates of depression and lower social skills.

I think for better or for worse, smartphones are changing our brains. I think the kids need to keep with the times to succeed in them and think like their peers to do so.

Anecdotally, my smartphone keeps me engaged with my friends and keeps me abreast of world events and keeps me entertained. It's only adding negativity to my life when im not diligent.

I know kids are impressionable, but i hope to allow my kids to do what they want after i discuss the inherent dangers and pitfalls of said things - whenever i end up having them lol.

Royalan · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
Now something does need to be done about smart phones. But children need to have access to third places, safe spaces, where they can have some independence, develop friendships, and just be without Karen's calling CPS.

Are smartphones the "third space" in this argument?

Kilgore Trout · Mar 23, 2024

ArrogantBastard said:
They can still connect without a smart phone, they will be alright.

Yeah, they absolutely can be. My coworker (we are teachers) has a 13 year old son and only lets him use an iPad at home where he can chat with his buddies. He is a perfectly fine kid and still connects with his peers. Hell, he is a rather popular guy. Just doesn't have a smart phone. He is not connected all the time, participates in a lot of sports, activities, etc. He literally only chats in iMessage at home. Really no different to how we used AIM back in the day. It can be done. Ridiculous to pretend a kid needs to be tethered 24/7.

Basileus777 · Mar 23, 2024

Unfortunately it's going to have to turn into a generational crisis before parents even consider letting this happen.

Rosebud · Mar 23, 2024

Royalan said:
Are smartphones the "third space" in this argument?

PCs were for me in middle school as my family was too damn scared to allow me to leave the house with my friends (which is the biggest problem imo, no clue if that's the case with the majority)

StrangeADT · Mar 23, 2024

Stalker said:
Just make phones off limits in class rooms. Social media is something you're going to have an incredibly difficult time trying to moderate a childs usage of if they have access to the internet.

No data plan plus MAC filtered blocking. Throw in potential parental controls on phones and tada!

Chakoo · Mar 23, 2024

When my kids get old enough they're getting Apple Watches and laptops. I'm also blocking most/all social media (devices and router).

Lozjam · Mar 23, 2024

Royalan said:
Are smartphones the "third space" in this argument?

It's the closest thing that they have to a third space. It's a vile, capitalism fueled reflection of a third space. But it's literally the closest thing that they have for a third space.

Hollywood Duo said:
where is it illegal for middle school age kids to be out alone? Like my kids school district allows kids in 3rd grade and up go to and from school by themselves.

There are countless articles of CPS and police being called for kids playing in a playground without supervision, even playing in their backgrounds without supervision. They cannot even be in a mall without supervision.

In America kids are absolutely reviled and hated.

ArrogantBastard said:
Typical American Adults, good line.

Now, I'm sure you are going to demonstrate with evidence how increased smart phone use is actually healthy for children. The overwhelming evidence demonstrates that these devices are a net negative and should be limited.

Honestly, I don't know how a single child made it prior to social media and the Iphone. It was akin to the neolithic revolution.

Im not saying that smart phones are healthy. I am saying that America is not set up for kids and kids don't have healthy safe spaces.

Take away phones now, then most kids will have no way to socialize because since the 90s we have destroyed, and eliminated most of our child friendly spaces.

With me, growing up in the 2000s, there were very little places I could go that were "safe". I even had the cops called on me while riding my bike in my suburban neighborhood. Once I got my first phone, it was really the only place I could contact and be in touch with friends on my own accord.

We need to build those third spaces first before taking away phones. We also need to fix America's hate for kids too. Otherwise, we take these phones away, and so many kids will have no way to socialize.

beelulzebub · Mar 23, 2024

Zero-ELEC said:
does.... does this person not know what "a modest proposal" means?

This lol.

Anyway, hard disagree. Social media and thus cell phones are a meaningful social safety net if you're on the fringes. Countless LGBT+ children in areas that are hostile to them are probably alive because they are able to find social groups that welcome them and advocacy groups that can counsel them when they need it.

Dyle said:
I agree, it gets in the way of fattening them up

Glad someone read A Modest Proposal even if the author did not lol

GYODX · Mar 23, 2024

ClickyCal' said:
Yeah I'm American...but I agree with all of this. People aren't seeing through trees with one on how important these lifelines are kids.

Rosebud said:
PCs were for me in middle school as my family was too damn scared to allow me to leave the house with my friends (which is the biggest problem imo, no clue if that's the case with the majority)

Most kids aren't engaging with social media the way you are describing or the way many of us who straddle the pre-/post- social media revolution do. You're looking at it through pre-social media revolution nostalgia tinted lens.

What you are describing is social media as a means to connect with support networks and niche, tight-knit communities of like-minded individuals, which can be a lifeline for those who don't have that in the physical world. But that's not how most kids engage with social media nowadays, which in reality is hardly "socializing" and more like mindless, dopamine-fueled swiping.

That being said, I can see an exception being made for things Discord or Tumblr, which in my opinion are more conducive to finding such networks. But no way in hell am I letting my kids get hooked on IG, FB or TikTok, platforms *deliberately engineered* to be as addictive as possible.

Royalan · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
It's the closest thing that they have to a third space. It's a vile, capitalism fueled reflection of a third space. But it's literally the closest thing that they have for a third space.

I don't know if I agree with this.

America has a crises when it comes to third spaces, this is true. Won't argue that.

I don't know if I'm seeing how unfiltered access to smartphones is the answer to this.

San · Mar 23, 2024

I'm having trouble understanding how this doesn't just push the issue back a few years. It's like not giving a child access to a computer and being surprised they never really learned how to type.

Instead, I think we need to adapt and have (social) media literacy classes.

TaySan · Mar 23, 2024

My kids won't get a smart phone until they are at least 16. Flip phones around 12-13

Hollywood Duo · Mar 23, 2024

San said:
I'm having trouble understanding how this doesn't just push the issue back a few years. It's like not giving a child access to a computer and being surprised they never really learned how to type.

Instead, I think we need to adapt and have (social) media literacy classes.

We probably need both tbh

ArrogantBastard · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
It's the closest thing that they have to a third space. It's a vile, capitalism fueled reflection of a third space. But it's literally the closest thing that they have for a third space.

There are countless articles of CPS and police being called for kids playing in a playground without supervision, even playing in their backgrounds without supervision. They cannot even be in a mall without supervision.

In America kids are absolutely reviled and hated.

Im not saying that smart phones are healthy. I am saying that America is not set up for kids and kids don't have healthy safe spaces.

Take away phones now, then most kids will have no way to socialize because since the 90s we have destroyed, and eliminated most of our child friendly spaces.

With me, growing up in the 2000s, there were very little places I could go that were "safe". I even had the cops called on me while riding my bike in my suburban neighborhood. Once I got my first phone, it was really the only place I could contact and be in touch with friends on my own accord.

We need to build those third spaces first before taking away phones. We also need to fix America's hate for kids too. Otherwise, we take these phones away, and so many kids will have no way to socialize.

I'm sorry I just don't remotely agree to this notion that American kids are absolutely hated. I fully understand that safe spaces have declined since the 90's, I'm a product of that time period. Safe spaces still exist out there though, they are designed to be safe too.

The answer though isn't to give 10 year old a smartphone which allows them to access a world that is developed to be toxic and farm constant engagement.

San said:
I'm having trouble understanding how this doesn't just push the issue back a few years. It's like not giving a child access to a computer and being surprised they never really learned how to type.

Instead, I think we need to adapt and have (social) media literacy classes.

The idea behind it is they are a bit more developed, this is rather standard development theory. They aren't ready for this, so you put it off for a bit. This is specifically the thing you do. We don't let kids have access to a whole plethora of things, I don't see why smartphone restrictions are some untouchable thing.

Cipherr · Mar 23, 2024

Ernest said:
Smarphones, especially social media, is bad for all humans, especially those who's brains are still developing.
Who doesn't understand this?

Yeah I think everyone knows this but... Well, addiction is a bitch, and even though its true, its an easy viewpoint to dismiss by calling people luddites or 'Boomers' or somesuch.

Kids may need phones in the U.S. for specific reasons, but smartphones are clearly not all that great for young people. Its not even that great (or good) for grown ass adults. The issues with social media must wreak havoc on developing minds.

But there's nothing you can do about other parents (like its always been) so the exposure will seep in somewhere. But limiting it could benefit many for sure.

Hollywood Duo · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
It's the closest thing that they have to a third space. It's a vile, capitalism fueled reflection of a third space. But it's literally the closest thing that they have for a third space.

There are countless articles of CPS and police being called for kids playing in a playground without supervision, even playing in their backgrounds without supervision. They cannot even be in a mall without supervision.

In America kids are absolutely reviled and hated.

Im not saying that smart phones are healthy. I am saying that America is not set up for kids and kids don't have healthy safe spaces.

Take away phones now, then most kids will have no way to socialize because since the 90s we have destroyed, and eliminated most of our child friendly spaces.

With me, growing up in the 2000s, there were very little places I could go that were "safe". I even had the cops called on me while riding my bike in my suburban neighborhood. Once I got my first phone, it was really the only place I could contact and be in touch with friends on my own accord.

We need to build those third spaces first before taking away phones. We also need to fix America's hate for kids too. Otherwise, we take these phones away, and so many kids will have no way to socialize.

I can't really agree. I'm sure that was your experience growing up but there are plenty of family oriented communities throughout the country. I do feel like these days everyone tries to beat the meta and move to the areas with the best schools so that definitely leaves pockets where there aren't as many kids as there should be and can lead to the situation you had.

Royalan · Mar 23, 2024

Rosebud said:
PCs were for me in middle school as my family was too damn scared to allow me to leave the house with my friends (which is the biggest problem imo, no clue if that's the case with the majority)

I may be wrong here, so invite anyone to correct me, but I feel like we need to delineate here.

I grew up a queer Black kid in the early 2000s. The internet was absolutely a lifeline for me affirming my identity, and reaching like-minded people.

But I don't know if I'd consider it a "third space."

A third space to me is a space where I learned to socialize and integrate with my peers in an environment that was not school.

Lozjam · Mar 23, 2024

Royalan said:
I don't know if I agree with this.

America has a crises when it comes to third spaces, this is true. Won't argue that.

I don't know if I'm seeing how unfiltered access to smartphones is the answer to this.

I'm not saying it's a solution, nor is it healthy. But I am saying it's the closest things that many kids have.

Getting rid of it without proper alternatives will just make our mental health pandemic worse.

I'm saying America needs to actually have space for kids that isn't centered on productivity. Because in most places in America, those do not exist. We need to fully mobilize to do this, but there is a reason people are addicted to their phones. It's moreso a symptom of problems, then a problem in itself.

That's because every single space that kids exist, have to have "productivity". Schools, extra curriculars like music, sports. Those things are great on its own, but most kids growing up nowadays don't have anything else. It's only things that add an incredible amount of workload to their lives, so of course they are going to gravitate towards phones, where they can get bite sized bits of dopamine in a short amount of time. That shit is really unhealthy, but at the same time it's the only thing that these kids really have.

As a teacher, let me tell you, because of these issues being a kid in the 2020's is a pretty miserable experience. Kids have 3 options nowadays:

1. Be at school
2. Be at home pretty much not socializing(if they don't have a phone. You can't really find friends in person nowadays).
3. Have an extra curricular that adds 5-10 hours of additional work a week, ather that be practice requirements, or performances and games, and transit while they are already at school full time at 40 hours a week.

Many kids choose option 3, and add 3-5 extra curriculars(if their parents can afford it), then they become very quickly overworked and miserable, and then develop anxiety. But hey, it's better than being alone.

Schools also do very little to actually develop relationships nowadays as well.

Stuggernaut · Mar 23, 2024

Little kids glued to smart phones makes me sad... like when you see grade school kids whipping around a smart phone like it's nothing. I was in Red Robin restaurant recently and saw two parents and two kids all on their iPhones while eating. So sad.

While I don't think outright banning phones is realistic, I sure would get behind some rules and education around them for younger kids. And I have no issues with cell phone control within the classroom (not the entire school) during classes.

ArrogantBastard · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
1. Be at school
2. Be at home pretty much not socializing(if they don't have a phone. You can't really find friends in person nowadays).
3. Have an extra curricular that adds 5-10 hours of additional work a week, ather that be practice requirements, or performances and games, and transit while they are already at school full time at 40 hours a week.

Wait is this you talking or the kids? I find it odd that you, a teacher, are saying they can't really find friends in person.

Qrusher14242 · Mar 23, 2024

I think the genie's of the bottle with this. Im not sure how you turn it back. I went to HS 96-00, and maybe my senior year i remember 1 or 2 people having a phone but it wasn't common at all. AIM/ICQ were the big things for me back then. I can't imagine going to school now with the ability to text/chat with people at any moment.

But im not sure how you stop it. I remember another topic on here about how it's become really difficult to enforce smartphone bans in schools. Kids put up fights and parents call and scream about it. Social media for kids is bad i think, hell its pretty bad for adults, i can't imagine what it does to kids, how easy they can influenced.

Sir Wiart · Mar 23, 2024

Cell phones main goal is to divide people, give rich more access to stuff that the poor can't use. Also echo chamber where one creates their own bubble/reality where they don't need to know facts/truth.

Lozjam · Mar 23, 2024

ArrogantBastard said:
Wait is this you talking or the kids? I find it odd that you, a teacher, are saying they can't really find friends in person.

Yes, because it's undeniably true.

There used to places where kids could meet each other in non educational settings. But there are very little places like that nowadays.

School it's actually very hard for kids to find friends, students talk to that about me all the time. It's because their parents are too busy working, that they can't drive their kids to events. Of course, kids do see each other at school, but there's not much room for socializing besides 20 minutes for recess(for the entire day).

The influence of standardized testing has basically put teachers in a rough position where they need to be 100% productive or else they fall behind. Especially with covid being essentially lost years of education.

The only kids that I know that are actually socially developed for their age, have neighbors with the same age of kids a few doors down. It's really have gotten that bad, and covid did a number them.

ArrogantBastard · Mar 23, 2024

Lozjam said:
Yes, because it's undeniably true.

There used to places where kids could meet each other in non educational settings. But there are very little places like that nowadays.

School it's actually very hard for kids to find friends, students talk to that about me all the time. It's because their parents are too busy working, that they can't drive their kids to events. Of course, kids do see each other at school, but there's not much room for socializing besides 20 minutes for recess(for the entire day).

The influence of standardized testing has basically put teachers in a rough position where they need to be 100% productive or else they fall behind. Especially with covid being essentially lost years of education.

The only kids that I know that are actually socially developed for their age, have neighbors with the same age of kids a few doors down. It's really have gotten that bad, and covid did a number them.

I'm generally curious where you think kids traditionally found friends in the first place. I assure you as a product of the 80-90's it was school, it is historically school...and its still that way today.

Will they develop friendships outside of school, 100%. They are with the same group of kids from an early age till they are 18; for hours at a time. They are primarily going to develop those relationships at school.

Not a gotcha or anything, but what places did kids used to meet in non educational settings that are gone?

Hexa · Mar 23, 2024

I don't think this is something that parents can do on their own. I think schools would have a pretty hard time at it too. I think it would require something like legislation that requires that kids not be given phones with data plans before a certain age or something like that. Parents could still just give their phones to their kids, but it would set the standard so to speak so I don't think social isolation and such would be issues.

j7vikes · Mar 23, 2024

15SagittaeB said:
While I agree that smart devices are terrible for kids, I doubt you can put this genie back into the bottle.

I disagree. For a period almost everyone smoked. It was social, highly addictive, and funded by massive companies (sounds similar). Through education and regulation that slowly changed and now it's much more rare. It's certainly possible.

That said most parents are also hopelessly addicted and the kids being addicted at least keeps them occupied while they indulge.

RomanticHeroX · Mar 23, 2024

It's only feasible if it starts with adults and works its way down. Regulate social media, change personal habits and social expectations for phone use for adults. Once that happens then it might be possible to convince kids to have similar habits. Good fucking luck though.

Doc Holliday · Mar 23, 2024

I have a 4 year old and she doesn't use a tablet or phone. I see so many kids her age already addicted to their parents phones or tablets, it's crazy. The problem is of course when she gets older. We're going to try and keep her phone/tablet free as long as possible.

ArrogantBastard · Mar 23, 2024

Doc Holliday said:
I have a 4 year old and she doesn't use a tablet or phone. I see so many kids her age already addicted to their parents phones or tablets, it's crazy. The problem is of course when she gets older. We're going to try and keep her phone/tablet free as long as possible.

We have a 4 year old too. I'm not going to lie, we allow him to watch shit on Youtube (Ryan's World, Blippi, Bluey, Mickey Mouse, these videos that show people finding Disney Cars and washing them...) I think the key here is limit that shit. We really try and keep it to less than 15 minutes at a time and no more than three times a day.

It's hard. The most important thing is the phone/tablet shouldn't stop or prevent ya'll/us from doing everything else. Phones/tablets are a problem when they take the place of other forms of interaction/play.

BatterseaPS · Mar 23, 2024

Completely agree. I have three kids, oldest about to enter middle school. We went through the pandemic and it was actually a "pleasant" experience for us. The kids don't rely on screens and we found many ways to amuse ourselves in isolation.

I will say though, that we pay a crazy amount of money to send them to a private school where the parents all follow the same guidelines, so peer pressure about phones and TV is less of an issue for us, if at all. Like with most things, poor and working class families have to rely on phones and tablets as entertainment for their kids more often than middle and upper class folk.

But for those that can swing it, I highly recommend it. Let children be children — don't force the adult world on them too soon. Kids shouldn't have their brains full of information by high schools. Those early years are about physical and emotional growth, best aided by healthy socialization and outdoor time. Once they have that maturity of body and emotion, then the intellect can better handle digital communication as well as their more complex HS and college subject matter.

(Also I'm a teacher at a special needs school and have found this goes doubly hard for kids on the spectrum and with other learning differences, with exceptions of course, as with anything.)

Digital Dinosaur · Mar 23, 2024

I would agree with the proviso that yes, independence be restored to kids at the same time.

The issue is, the prison that has been built around kids is far too desirable for too many people, including many parents.

It's relatively easy, even seductively easy, to pluck out just the phones and leave kids trapped in the oubliette that has been built around them brick by brick.

RomanticHeroX said:
It's only feasible if it starts with adults and works its way down. Regulate social media, change personal habits and social expectations for phone use for adults. Once that happens then it might be possible to convince kids to have similar habits. Good fucking luck though.

Also this. Kids do what they see mommy and daddy do. It won't work if mom is glued to the phone and ignoring the child, while holding up a hand and telling the child "you can't have it, just 'cause".

Doc Holliday · Mar 23, 2024

ArrogantBastard said:
We have a 4 year old too. I'm not going to lie, we allow him to watch shit on Youtube (Ryan's World, Blippi, Bluey, Mickey Mouse, these videos that show people finding Disney Cars and washing them...) I think the key here is limit that shit. We really try and keep it to less than 15 minutes at a time and no more than three times a day.

It's hard. The most important thing is the phone/tablet shouldn't stop or prevent ya'll/us from doing everything else. Phones/tablets are a problem when they take the place of other forms of interaction/play.

Absolutely. We let her watch tv for short periods of time but it's different because it's easier for us to interact with her. Kids just zone out when they are using tablets. I'm pretty sure that's how I was as a kid with tv watching, but I couldn't carry my tv in my pocket lol

UraMallas · Mar 23, 2024

I think it would be great in theory but there's just no possible way any more. That ship has long since sailed.

A modest proposal: No smartphones for kids

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