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A reddit thread is claiming James Sunderland is directly looking at the player in the Silent Hill 2 Mirror Scene. Help me find if it's true

(WATCH THREADMARKS) Is James looking at the player or himself?

  • The player

    Votes: 148 56.1%

  • Himself

    Votes: 116 43.9%
  • Total voters
    264
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Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,868
UPDATE:

Joqu's version where they believe it is looking at the player

sh2promoedit28kci.png


My version where I believe he is looking at the mirror

sh2ezaez_art_char_15jekej.png



So this is the thread in question

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

7yj9uuiaz1e51.jpg


This all seem pretty convincing but I wanted to check it out by myself. I am not well versed with restoring details so I just played with brightness and levels on photoshop

g2sdx_20200731154652_8qk99.png

g2sdx_2020073115465250kmr.png


I guess I can kinda see it? But the dude is showing a whole ass iris. How do you make that visible?

Any pro to check that out for me?

Here's the video in question that I recorded, note that I cannot say if it's the best quality. I took it in RGB, 709 color space and partial color range. https://mega.nz/file/NxF2wQTL#4q0bh2tl27-NDlSqjL1z_TRNypFzqXuDKW5tsBcl4Xg

Here are some screenshots taken from the screenshot feature of pcsx2

gsdx_20200731154652t3jng.png
gsdx_20200731154652_203kzz.png
gsdx_20200731154653zsj2u.png
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The specific screenshot happens AFTER James put his hand on his face if you want to do testing by yourself, which I encourage you to do. I don't think checking footage from youtube will help you because youtube fucks up everything about fine details. Also the video and screenshots were taken on pcsx2, which I was often told the PS2 version had the best quality FMV out of every version.

That's a bit huge for me that James would look at the camera at the beginning and we didn't know about it so I'd like to have confirmation.
 
Last edited:
1 argument towards it being true
  • Index
    • Joqu

    Joqu

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    3,030
    The Waffle Kingdom
    The reason it looks blurrier in your edit is because that shot exists in proper HD because it was released as a promotional asset. If you use that one as your base it's immediately clear as you edit the levels.

    sh2promop4jaz.jpg

    sh2promoedit28kci.png


    Using one of the shots you provided you can still tell this is true, but as you noticed it's impossible to get clear irises out of it. The PS2 FMVs might be the highest quality ones we have, but they're not HD and a lot of that detail's just harder to make out because of the noise that's present.

    sh2emuedit9wkpv.png
     
  • Index
    • Egida

    Egida

    Member
    Oct 27, 2017
    4,386
    That's the kind of creepy "it was there all this time but you didn't notice it" stuff I love.
     
    Cerulean_skylark

    Cerulean_skylark

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    You could just ask Ito on twitter, he is usually pretty responsive about stuff IF YOU WOULD PLEASE BE NICE TO HIM.
     
    LazyLain

    LazyLain

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    Jan 17, 2019
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    Well my name IS James, which alone made playing SH2 awkward enough. Now it's extra awkward.
     
    8byte

    8byte

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    I'm happy to see this thread this morning instead of this evening.
     
    1 argument towards it being false
  • Index
    • OP
    OP
    Dreamboum

    Dreamboum

    Member
    Oct 28, 2017
    22,868
    Joqu said:
    The reason it looks blurrier in your edit is because that shot exists in proper HD because it was released as a promotional asset. If you use that one as your base it's immediately clear as you edit the levels.

    sh2promop4jaz.jpg

    sh2promoedit28kci.png


    Using one of the shots you provided you can still tell this is true, but as you noticed it's impossible to get clear irises out of it. The PS2 FMVs might be the highest quality ones we have, but they're not HD and a lot of that detail's just harder to make out because of the noise that's present.

    sh2emuedit9wkpv.png
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    sh2ezaez_art_char_15jekej.png


    The HD Promotional Art seems to be a real good approach I didn't know existed. I tried seeing it for myself but in my touch up it seems like he is looking at the mirror. What do you think?

    This is starting to be creepy now...
     
  • Index
    • Joqu

    Joqu

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    3,030
    The Waffle Kingdom
    Dreamboum said:
    sh2ezaez_art_char_15jekej.png


    The HD Promotional Art seems to be a real good approach I didn't know existed. I tried seeing it for myself but in my touch up it seems like he is looking at the mirror. What do you think?

    This is starting to be creepy now...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Hmm. Well, I'm still inclined to think that if was looking straight into the mirror he wouldn't quite be looking in that direction, the angle of it is putting me off. But I'm no expert on perspective.

    I don't think what you're making out there in your edit is a pupil if that's what's making you think he's looking at the mirror, I *think* that's a compression artifact, but maybe you're right... I can kinda see it. Nvm, see my next post.
    Ideally we'd find the original asset because what I used there was a jpg from a wallpaper site, haha. I'm not sure what format konami used when they distributed it but it's possible it'd be a tad clearer.
     
    Last edited:
    The Last One

    The Last One

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    Dreamboum said:
    sh2ezaez_art_char_15jekej.png


    The HD Promotional Art seems to be a real good approach I didn't know existed. I tried seeing it for myself but in my touch up it seems like he is looking at the mirror. What do you think?

    This is starting to be creepy now...
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    His right eye is definitely looking to the mirror.
     
    Joqu

    Joqu

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    3,030
    The Waffle Kingdom
    Okay never mind on that not being a pupil, it looks like it is. But I tried editing it again with a wallpaper I found here:


    And this is my result:

    sh2wpeditzxkdh.png


    I dunno, I feel like he's looking at the player here. But our brains are probably good at tricking ourselves with things like this too, I don't want to claim anything definitive.

    I guess the only thing I'm really sure about is that you can definitely make out the irises if you use a higher res promotional version of that shot!
     
    Calamari41

    Calamari41

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    7,103
    Very cool. I wonder if somehow people notice this in the original on some kind of subconscious level, affecting their attitude going into the game? Probably a dumb thought but it would be interesting.
     
    Keldroc

    Keldroc

    Member
    Oct 27, 2017
    11,988
    He's looking out of the mirror properly. There are lights in the eyes that make it feel like they're sort of looking at the player, but in higher quality lightenings like Joqu's, his eyeline is clearly correct for the reflection. Wouldn't surprise me if the lighting is done to intentionally create that effect, though.
     
    Joqu

    Joqu

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
    3,030
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    Keldroc said:
    He's looking out of the mirror properly. There are lights in the eyes that make it feel like they're sort of looking at the player, but in higher quality lightenings like Joqu's, his eyeline is clearly correct for the reflection. Wouldn't surprise me if the lighting is done to intentionally create that effect, though.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    Hm I'm probably just bad at gauging whether an eyeline is correct. Still, glad to be of help with my edits. It's a cool little thing either way.
     
    Landford

    Landford

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    In my restless dreams I see that resetera user, landford.
     
    Herey

    Herey

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    Whether it's true or not, James continues to be a creepy motherfucker either way.
     
    Joqu

    Joqu

    Member
    Oct 25, 2017
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    What I find most interesting, really, is that you can already make out more of the white of the eyes in that second wallpaper, it's quite bright. That does make me think the effect might have been intentional. It's a curious one though, since that's definitely not the case in-game. I wish I knew how it was presented in magazines, or on any official websites, stuff like that.
     

    addik

    Member
    Oct 28, 2017
    1,528
    Man, all these Silent Hill threads in Resetera, Sony must be behind this to prepare us for the August reveal of its reboot!!!
     
    Lant_War

    Lant_War

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    It's both. Wouldn't surprise me if the ambiguity was intentional.
     

    Deleted member 23046

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    Regarding how the game handles miror reflection, it's not even him but his double who's looking at you. I know, it's a cutscene and not an in-engine animation, but still a good excuse to link the video where I've learned how they've made these mirror tricks :

     
    Landford

    Landford

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    To this day I think this is the greatest game ever made. Nothing will ever come close to how mind bending SH2 is. Some years ago I found out that
    Mary's corpse was in the back seat of the car James arrives in, and the "letter" was just a delusion from James
    and my mind was blown all over again. Its just too much.
     
    ZeoVGM

    ZeoVGM

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    Landford said:
    To this day I think this is the greatest game ever made. Nothing will ever come close to how mind bending SH2 is. Some years ago I found out that
    Mary's corpse was in the back seat of the car James arrives in, and the "letter" was just a delusion from James
    and my mind was blown all over again. Its just too much.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...

    She was in the trunk.

    The back seat thing comes from a tweet but it goes against what it implied in the media surrounding the game.
     
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