A woman told me that my atheism offends her.

[Dandy]

I'm Canadian and am often shocked by the reactions of people when I tell them I am an Atheist. It's rarely like what the OP describes, but it's so strange... I was talking to a co-worker who NEVER goes to church(even at holidays), lives a very secular life, and she was flabbergasted by my lack of belief. She wasn't mad, but she said something like "aren't you afraid you will go to Hell?" I felt like telling her that she would probably go to Hell if such a place existed based on her life choices, but I bit my tongue and made a joke about ending up there anyway because I am gay, which she laughed at.

I'm not sure what my point is... I'm just consistently surprised that so many people still hold onto a cultural belief in Christianity, despite not being religious at all.

 

[Skade]

Thinking about it some more you should have told her you were just a hard working career agent of Satan doing your job which is actually defined b God in the first place to enable her to test her faith and come out strong. You understand if you do well you'll get a transfer in a couple of hundred years to the Angel division which you figure will be a nice change of pace from Agent of Satan. Just to see how she reacted to that.

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I would just have bursted in an evil maniacal cackling just to see if she'd flee in terror. But i'm a bad person. :p

 

[Goat Mimicry]

An Agent of Satan??? Oh my God.

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Imagine how insanely huge her ego must be to think that the OP was born and lived for 18+ years for the sole purpose of testing her faith.

 

[riverfr0zen]

My mom is deeply offended by it, so yeah all the time.

More seriously, yeah--I think anyone who has been vocal about their atheism has probably had a few incidents like this to varying degrees. Your indifference is the correct attitude in this case, I think.

 

[hotcyder]

There's two reasons not to call yourself an atheist in the post-internet America:

1) Catching flak from the religious right, because of America's history as a Protestant nation
2) Catching flak from the progressive left, because of the nature of New Atheism as propagated by Dawkins, and now Jordan B. Peterson. The Alt-Right also has similar roots with New Atheism. New Atheism was when atheism developed beyond its base definition and became an identity/banner, as much as any other religion or political party.

It depends on your environment. No one would've cared about your being an atheist in a secular urban city until #2 entered cultural context.

I generally dislike RationalWiki because they're kind of a third branch of post-internet atheism but their write up here should clarify what it is I'm referring to: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/New_Atheism

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Atheists really are the most oppressed group

 

[floridaguy954]

Just say that her belief in a false God offends you. It can go both ways.

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Exactly what I would have said. I wouldn't give a shit about her feelings in that situation to be honest.

 

[HelloMeow]

How do people keep saying that Peterson is an atheist?

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Peterson doesn't even believe in atheism. Whatever that means.

 

[RPGam3r]

I've been told I must believe in the devil, the irony completely lost on them, as well as going to hell, again lost.

I think this is very common.

 

[Dennie Dee]

Got a similar story OP.

I had a pen pal from Texas when I was a kid (from Belgium myself). We used to write eachother regularly up until the point I told him I'm an atheist. I sent him a map of Belgium, money, and all sorts of other cool Belgian shit.
He sent me one last letter explaining (rather shortly) that he doesn't want me to be his pen pal no more because I denounced his god. As a kid I didn't fully understand and got really sad.

 

[dabig2]

It's funny how you go about your day thinking America is a modern developed country and then you're reminded "oh yeah, a significant number of them believe in the literal existence of God", so weird. One of the best things about UK society is that religion is almost a non-entity in culture any more. Some people believe in God but more in a general vague kind of way, instead of the "Earth is 5000 years old and Satan is trying to tempt me" kind of way. I can't imagine having to deal with people like that day in day out.

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Evangelicalism is a special breed that is practically unique to the USA. And it doesn't help that the (white) evangelical vote is also firmly entrenched with Trump, even after all the shit that has gone down. Instead they're still using their bible to justify hatred, racism, and greed.

People love bringing up their favorite asshole atheist to go "yeah, this is why people don't like atheists!". But atheists on the whole are significantly more liberal and anti-conservative ideologically, at least relative to virtually all other subgroups in America, and yet atheists are regarded as memes more or less. The reason the assholes seem more prominent is because you're already looking at an extremely marginalized and insignificant subgroup where the voices of the majority are silenced; even in this thread people mention that it's better that you just simply don't exist in public. Not too different from how certain people want to make America great again - in that they want to go back to a time where black people, LGBT, and etc. knew their damn place and shut the hell up.
I'm still struggling to believe that people honestly think atheists weren't already regarded as anti-American and distrusted by the general American population long before new atheism or Reddit existed.

But mention (white) Evangelicals' death grip on America and the damage it has wrought on a global scale and all of a sudden the no true scotsman applies. Doesn't help that a lot of these same terrible Christians hold ALL of the power: nukes, wars, economic policies that affect hundreds of millions, and they control the entire narrative and (re)write our history at will.

 

[Grug]

That's agnosticism. Atheism is you saying you're 100% certain there is no god.

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These threads always end up with people spouting these flagrantly wrong definitions.

You are flat out wrong.

Signed,

Me, an agnostic atheist.

 

[sleepInsom]

These threads always end up with people spouting these flagrantly wrong definitions.

You are flat out wrong.

Signed,

Me, an agnostic atheist.

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You could simmer down your unfounded indignation and be mature about it if you think that's a mistaken definition. You have an opportunity to use your words to educate, but instead you wanna be all "nuh-uh, you're wrong!" as if that makes your post convincing at all.

 

[Grug]

You could simmer down your unfounded indignation and be mature about it if you think that's a mistaken definition. You have an opportunity to use your words to educate, but instead you wanna be all "nuh-uh, you're wrong!" as if that makes your post convincing at all.

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Other posters had already provided the correct definition, as they usually do.

In light of that I was merely expressing my frustration that the message never seems to get through. It really shits me in fact. As I see it, much of the "atheists are arrogant" meme seems to derive from people falsely portraying atheists as claiming they know for certain that there is no god, when in reality, gnostic atheists are basically such a non-factor that that categorisation is practically theoretical only.

Thanks for getting indignant about what you perceived to be indignation though.

 

[sleepInsom]

Other posters had already provided the correct definition, as they usually do.

In light of that I was merely expressing my frustration that the message never seems to get through. It really shits me in fact.

Thanks for getting indignant about what you perceived to be indignation though.

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You're being contradictory. You're saying the message never gets through but then acknowledge others have corrected him. Which is it? And there's nothing to perceive when you also acknowledge that post "shits on you". Just admit that you wanted to shit on someone because they've used a definition you thought as being wrong in a post that's a day old. This is the type of attitude that gives us atheists a bad name, and that's what's truly frustrating.

Like what do you think the point of forums are for, to be 100% correct all the time and when you say something incorrect that's it's okay to shit on someone? Or is this a sharing of ideas and people can learn from another? Clearly you think it's the former.

 

[Grug]

You're being contradictory. You're saying the message never gets through but then acknowledge others have corrected him.

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Uh, where is the contradiction? Saying the message is expressed is entirely different to saying it gets through. In fact, that was the point of my frustration, that this incorrect definition seems utterly unshakeable.

It would appear to be you who is trying to win some sort of internet points at this juncture. What a weird hill to die on dude, and how boring this tangent must be to everyone else.

 

[sleepInsom]

Uh, where is the contradiction? Saying the message is expressed is entirely different to saying it gets through. Does this really need to be pointed out? In fact, that was the point of my frustration.

What a weird hill to die on dude...

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Why are you assuming the poster you quoted didn't read those responses? Do you have a reason to believe this, or are you merely making an unfounded assumption towards someone to justify shitting on someone? And what hill? Lol. You're coming in here, quoting a lost several pages back just to insult someone because they used an incorrect definition, then justify your attitude by saying you're frustrated when someone says something wrong when you do nothing to help educate. Think about that.

 

[Grug]

Got a similar story OP.

I had a pen pal from Texas when I was a kid (from Belgium myself). We used to write eachother regularly up until the point I told him I'm an atheist. I sent him a map of Belgium, money, and all sorts of other cool Belgian shit.
He sent me one last letter explaining (rather shortly) that he doesn't want me to be his pen pal no more because I denounced his god. As a kid I didn't fully understand and got really sad.

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That is actually a really sad story. So much for pen pals being an opportunity to connect with someone with a totally different experience.

It does seem like mainly an American thing. Here in Australia religion is largely invisible and not a factor in daily life and interactions unless you actively go seeking it out.

I teach at a public school and the kids couldn't care less what each other believes. I've never had to deal with a situation in my teaching career where religion was the source of tension between students. It's pretty damn great.

 

[Aarglefarg]

You could simmer down your unfounded indignation and be mature about it if you think that's a mistaken definition. You have an opportunity to use your words to educate, but instead you wanna be all "nuh-uh, you're wrong!" as if that makes your post convincing at all.

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Agnosticism/gnosticism is the answer to questions about whether they think the existence of gods are known or provable.
Atheism/theism is the answer to questions about whether they have a belief in is a belief in gods or not.

They are different answers to different questions, or different axes on a grid.

Do you know someone who believes in a god and considers this to be a proven fact? (gnostic theist)
Do you know someone who believes in a god and does not consider it a provable matter? (agnostic theist)

Atheists have the same range, with most of us being agnostic atheists.

 

[sleepInsom]

Agnosticism/gnosticism is the answer to questions about whether they think the existence of gods are known or provable.
Atheism/theism is the answer to questions about whether they have a belief in is a belief in gods or not.

They are different answers to different questions, or different axes on a grid.

Do you know someone who believes in a god and considers this to be a proven fact? (gnostic theist)
Do you know someone who believes in a god and does not consider it a provable matter? (agnostic theist)

Atheists have the same range, with most of us being agnostic atheists.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for this. I'm aware of these concepts, admittedly only several years ago, so I can empathize with people who don't know these terms. I still remember in school that we were only taught that there's gnostics, atheists and agnostics, and that's it. Unfortunately, that's still how the majority of people see it from my experiences. Given that, I think taking a position of educating people is better then telling them they're stupid when most people aren't exposed to these concepts, at least this granular of a level.

 

[Grug]

Given that, I think taking a position of educating people is better then telling them they're stupid.

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I didn't call anyone stupid. Intelligent people are capable of being wrong about things. You really need to get past this.

 

[sleepInsom]

I didn't call anyone stupid. Intelligent people are capable of being wrong about things. You really need to get past this.

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This is gaslighting. I hope this isn't how you act with your students.

 

[Grug]

This is gaslighting.

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No, it's becoming stalkerish behaviour on your part. You took a disproportionate amount of offence to me saying someone was wrong, ignored my attempts to provide additional context to the situation, accused me of contradicting myself when I didn't, claimed I give all atheists a bad name (based on knowing nothing about me), wrongly implied that I was calling people "stupid" when I did no such thing, and when I pointed out that you misrepresented me, you then tried to insist I am gaslighting you and then took a cheap personal shot at my career.

I'm sitting here utterly dismayed at how this thing is still escalating. Please have the last word if it finally ends this really confusing tangent, but I'm going to employ the ignore list.

 

[sleepInsom]

No, it's becoming stalkerish behaviour on your part. You took a disproportionate amount of offence to me saying someone was wrong, ignored my attempts to provide additional context to the situation, called me arrogant, wrongly implied that I was calling people "stupid" when I did no such thing, and when I pointed out that fact you then tried to insist I am gaslighting you.

I'm sitting here utterly dismayed at how this thing is still escalating. Please have the last word if it finally ends this really confusing tangent, but I'm going to employ the ignore list.

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Responding to your posts is not stalkerish lol. That's the basic premise of how these places work. You say something, someone responds. If you don't want to be held accountable for your actions, maybe tread more carefully. If your only contribution to a thread is to smack someone in the face because you think you're intellectually superior then they are, someone may call you out.

 

[DerbyCityDerek]

I always see posts from people who think that something like this is a rare occurrence, and all I can do is wonder if there's really such a deep cultural divide between different parts of the US.

I'm sort of an atheist (agnostic might be the better term, I don't know and I don't care, you do you and I'll do me), and I've pretty much known since I was a little kid that I didn't particularly believe or care. Neither of my parents are particularly religious, so I just grew up in a house without god.

Living in Kentucky, I still TO THIS DAY have to be careful about who I admit this around. Openly admitting I don't believe in god, even here in more liberal Louisville, is usually like ringing an alarm bell for at least one person to chime up and get upset at my choices. I've had acquaintances chastise me about it when they found out. A portion of my own grandmother's funeral was dedicated to how horrible it must be to not believe because we (silently aimed at me and some of my other nonbelieving cousins) would never see her again since we'd be in hell and she'd be in heaven.

Too a large chunk of the US population, not believing is a serious taboo. It isn't helped that many atheists are total assholes about not believing, but even someone like me who kind of just doesn't care still gets heavily antagonized for it.

 

[sleepInsom]

I always see posts from people who think that something like this is a rare occurrence, and all I can do is wonder if there's really such a deep cultural divide between different parts of the US.

I'm sort of an atheist (agnostic might be the better term, I don't know and I don't care, you do you and I'll do me), and I've pretty much known since I was a little kid that I didn't particularly believe or care. Neither of my parents are particularly religious, so I just grew up in a house without god.

Living in Kentucky, I still TO THIS DAY have to be careful about who I admit this around. Openly admitting I don't believe in god, even here in more liberal Louisville, is usually like ringing an alarm bell for at least one person to chime up and get upset at my choices. I've had acquaintances chastise me about it when they found out. A portion of my own grandmother's funeral was dedicated to how horrible it must be to not believe because we (silently aimed at me and some of my other nonbelieving cousins) would never see her again since we'd be in hell and she'd be in heaven.

Too a large chunk of the US population, not believing is a serious taboo. It isn't helped that many atheists are total assholes about not believing, but even someone like me who kind of just doesn't care still gets heavily antagonized for it.

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It's quite exasperating to be made to feel like an asshole for your own personal beliefs. Unfortunately, I think this happens because of human nature. You see this type of behavior in all facets of life. If you're a guy and don't like sports, some people will look at you funny. Do you not like a video game or movie someone else loves? You're wrong and have bad tastes. You don't want children? You don't know what you want. It's basically tribalism, and it's rooted in insecurity and I don't know if you can fix that especially nowadays when it seems those insecurities are used as social glue to insulate various communities.

 

[methane47]

What do agents of Satan do in their spare time?

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I beleive according to Era at the moment, in their spare time they work at Sony in the accounts dept

 

[Elandyll]

Now that I think about it "Agent of Satan" sounds like a very cool forum tag OP, you should ask a mod :)

 

[Dicer]

"Chrisitanity" in America is sad,funny and fucking scary all at the same time. As for the lady in the op maybe God should have told her to mind her own fucking buisness...

 

[Morrigan]

Forgive me, I only know bits of the bible from school but Satan seemed to be more of the good guy that lost or the lesser of 2 evils at least. Weren't we just gods pet in his garden that struggled to think for ourselves until Satan the snake gave Eve the apple that made us more aware and able to question things? God on the other hand supposedly wiped out all but a small handful of every creature because he didn't like what we were.

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Correct.

This is gaslighting. I hope this isn't how you act with your students.

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Please stop with this.

I beleive according to Era at the moment, in their spare time they work at Sony in the accounts dept

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Now now don't slander us ;_;

 

[Elynn]

I always see posts from people who think that something like this is a rare occurrence, and all I can do is wonder if there's really such a deep cultural divide between different parts of the US.

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As a non-american the cultural divide is even more shocking tbh.
Hearing that atheists still get treated like this in the USA in 2018 is just bizarre.

 

[sleepInsom]

"Chrisitanity" in America is sad,funny and fucking scary all at the same time. As for the lady in the op maybe God should have told her to mind her own fucking buisness...

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Too bad the Bible tells people to go out of their way to convert non-believers. "Fishermen of men" and all that. What they don't get is atheists already know what Christianity is.

 

[Greg NYC3]

I'm agnostic and I get tons of shit all the time from people about it. I never explain why I don't believe in religion unless I'm pressed about it but it's impossible to explain to people how I feel about organized religion without offending them it seems. Maybe it would be better if I just tell people that ask from now on that I'm a Pastafarian.

 

[Francesco]

Why is there so much hate towards people who choose to believe in something?
You're not smarter than them, it's not a matter of reason.
For how liberal and uptight this place is, the attitude towards religious people is just bullyish. Let people believe in whatever the fuck they want, just like you would for their sexuality, since that's so obvious to your minds these days. Don't be dicks.

 

[Elynn]

Why is there so much hate towards people who choose to believe in something?
You're not smarter than them, it's not a matter of reason.
For how liberal and uptight this place is, the attitude towards religious people is just bullyish. Let people believe in whatever the fuck they want, just like you would for their sexuality, since that's so obvious to your minds these days. Don't be dicks.

Click to shrink...

Not sure we've read the same thread.

 

[Francesco]

Not sure we've read the same thread.

Click to shrink...

Culturally, people give shit all the time.

 

[Elynn]

Culturally, people give shit all the time.

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Don't see why you felt the urge to post this here then, a thread about a religious person giving an atheist shit.

 

[Forearms]

Don't see why you felt the urge to post this here then, a thread about a religious person giving an atheist shit.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, this is confusing as fuck...

 

[Morrigan]

Why is there so much hate towards people who choose to believe in something?
You're not smarter than them, it's not a matter of reason.
For how liberal and uptight this place is, the attitude towards religious people is just bullyish. Let people believe in whatever the fuck they want, just like you would for their sexuality, since that's so obvious to your minds these days. Don't be dicks.

Click to shrink...

Please read the thread, or at the very least, the OP, before barging in there and posting off-topic hot takes next time. Thanks.

 

[Francesco]

Please read the thread, or at the very least, the OP, before barging in there and posting off-topic hot takes next time. Thanks.

Click to shrink...

Some of the responses are harsh to say the least.

 

[Morrigan]

Some of the responses are harsh to say the least.

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If you feel that way, then respond to those posts and address them. What you posted just looks like someone who hasn't read the thread at all and certainly not the OP, since you got the premise backwards.

 

[Elynn]

Some of the responses are harsh to say the least.

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There were a few comments that were out of place, for both sides, but you made your mind up before even reading the thread.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Why is there so much hate towards people who choose to believe in something?
You're not smarter than them, it's not a matter of reason.
For how liberal and uptight this place is, the attitude towards religious people is just bullyish. Let people believe in whatever the fuck they want, just like you would for their sexuality, since that's so obvious to your minds these days. Don't be dicks.

Click to shrink...

So you decided this was the thread to post about people not being dicks to religious people? A thread that is about OP being lashed out at for answering a question about their beliefs? This is your post?

Huh...

 

[CyrilFiggis]

You should reply to her post reintroducing yourself by paraphrasing Harry Hart's quote from the beginning of the church scene in Kingsman:

Harry Hart: [to bigoted church lady] I'm a Catholic whore, currently enjoying congress out of wedlock with my black Jewish boyfriend who works at a military abortion clinic. So, hail Satan, and have a lovely afternoon, madam.

Click to shrink...

 

[LL_Decitrig]

I would just have bursted in an evil maniacal cackling just to see if she'd flee in terror. But i'm a bad person. :p

Click to shrink...

This is where all those weeks learning how to speak Latin backwards and make my head rotate through 360 degrees would stand me in good stead. The glories of a misspent youth.

 

[LL_Decitrig]

My mom is deeply offended by it, so yeah all the time.

More seriously, yeah--I think anyone who has been vocal about their atheism has probably had a few incidents like this to varying degrees. Your indifference is the correct attitude in this case, I think.

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Are you American? I think you're American.

 

[Francesco]

So you decided this was the thread to post about people not being dicks to religious people? A thread that is about OP being lashed out at for answering a question about their beliefs? This is your post?

Huh...

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The way the post reads bearly constitutes as "lashing out." The lady was clearly in the wrong, the OP was indifferent to the situation, some posters ranting at the woman.
Yes this is my post thank you very much!

 

[ninjabot]

You could simmer down your unfounded indignation and be mature about it if you think that's a mistaken definition. You have an opportunity to use your words to educate, but instead you wanna be all "nuh-uh, you're wrong!" as if that makes your post convincing at all.

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In this poster's defense we've explained this several times, in this thread, to several people.

One of whom would acknowledge the mistake only to make the same mistake like, two responses later. It gets old.

 

[sleepInsom]

In this poster's defense we've explained this several times, in this thread, to several people.

One of whom would acknowledge the mistake only to make the same mistake like, two responses later. It gets old.

Click to shrink...

How many people read the entire thread before posting, though? My point is, the dude was educated yesterday so drudging up an old post just to make him look stupid doesn't do any good for anyone. It's hard enough being an atheist in a Christian society without fellow atheists trying to make others feel bad for making a common mistake.

 

[ninjabot]

Why is there so much hate towards people who choose to believe in something?
You're not smarter than them, it's not a matter of reason.
For how liberal and uptight this place is, the attitude towards religious people is just bullyish. Let people believe in whatever the fuck they want, just like you would for their sexuality, since that's so obvious to your minds these days. Don't be dicks.

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I don't see that in this thread. Maybe one or two people said something outright vitriolic. A lot of people mocked the woman in a joking manner. Everyone else has just been explaining why Atheism isn't inherently offensive.

 

[riverfr0zen]

Are you American? I think you're American.

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Not sure what this means or is implying.