ABC News: Former alt-right member on how hate groups get people to join: 'It was presented as wholesome'

captive · Oct 23, 2019

i know its fun to dunk on "gullible idiots" and "racist morons" but we need these people to talk about it. Its also seemingly pretty damn easy to play on these peoples emotions and getting them to slowly enter the alt right arena. Hell even here on Era i've seen people say they watch some liberal youtube video only to get recommended alt right bullshit.
There are millions of kids out there right now, whose parents watch Fox News, literally every day. They're getting brain washed at a super early age. But yes, lets blame them because they're "just idiots."
propaganda is a helluva drug people.

TheLostBigBoss said:
Pretty easy

1) Create an envrionment where people looking for a sense of belonging feel welcome.
2) Let them air out their grievances
3) Start planting seeds on why "the others" are more to blame than the persons owns failings, or the unrelated environmental factors around the person
4) Normalize the blame on minorities of all kinds and present the concept that "they" (the new people) are being robbed unjustly of what they deserve.
5) The new people in the group, coming into it already feeling like they have been dealt a bad hand, rationalize this new direction to blame issues in their life and the world on the targeted minority groups.
6) Amp it up to 11 and eventually the person is now your average alt right racist radical. The alt right group has created a sense of purpose and belonging and have created easy to identify targets on other political groups/people for everyone to attack and blame issues in life on.

this.

Cyanity said:
Because it's not presented as racism, more like an unveiling of some grand cosmic truth that the "man" doesn't want you to know about. The layers are peeled back little by little, until you're in the thick of the alt right forest despite the fact that you couldn't even recall entering it in the first place.

and this.

Its not like these videos are like hey come be racist with me. They start small "asking questions" red pilling you deeper and deeper into it.

CormoranStrike said:
This was good as well

this also should be required viewing.

Sunster said:
I love how no one can admit they are racist while they are being racist just like no Republicans can admit trump is destroying the country while they are active in politics.

..why exactly would they think they are racist?

onadesertedisland · Oct 23, 2019

I don't find much use in analyzing why a shitty person tends to coalesce with other shitty people. I have written them off. Nearly half of the country is unredeemable.

MilesQ · Oct 23, 2019

Why is it only white people get this kind of rehabilitation in the media?

Has there ever been an ex member from a Jihadi pipeline interviewed like this?

LosDaddie · Oct 23, 2019

A lot of White people only see racism as cross burning and screaming nigger/spic/etc

Powdered Egg · Oct 23, 2019

Someone is always tricking White people into harming minorities. America needs to catch this culprit!

sirap · Oct 23, 2019

That's privilege for you

Instro · Oct 23, 2019

Somehow I doubt the switch is flipped so easily from non-racist to racist and then back again so easily, and in the space of a couple years. She was probably already your average everyday racist, and then became an advanced racist. She's probably still a racist. But yeah I'm sure here boyfriend just randomly started taking about the day of the rope lol.

Also I hate how common it is to see these mea culpa "warning" type articles where some POS gets to "tell their story". Fuck off.

Sign My Guestbook! · Oct 23, 2019

LosDaddie said:
A lot of White people only see racism as cross burning and screaming nigger/spic/etc

Yup. It is one particular image, which is the most blatant and theatrically extreme one. If it doesn't fit, oops, racism is a lie, I am color blind, the real victim is me, everyone's a triggered snowflake!

Threadkular · Oct 23, 2019

So I'm from small town suburbs and grew up around some racist shit (lots of skinheads), and while I never associated with any hate groups or anything, I can identify with some of the stuff she says.

Particularly the line that "white people are intellectually more capable than other people". I'm not going to out the person/people who taught me those things (though you could probably guess), but as a kid I was taught that and literally thought it was true. The main person that taught me that always held "intelligence" as the highest part of his ego (and unfortunately he passed that on to me)... but his wasn't even intelligence, but monetary success which we know is by no means fair or based on pure merit.

In a world prior to the internet with minimal ways to get information as a kid, and also being around only people who thought the same and being told with code (e.g. "the city" was always demonized) it was tough to understand any different. Eventually I was able to get out of that vacuum. Obviously the easiest way was to interact with actual people and realize the ideas were false.

Hell, I guess it's still possible to get sucked into things. I mean I'm an addict and in the past 2 years I finally accepted AA and it's completely done a 180 on my way of thinking, but it's 100% for the positive for me and those around me that matter.

It's crazy the way we can be in denial and boost ourselves at the expense of others.

SpaceCrystal · Oct 23, 2019

Capra said:
The most generous thing you can say of these people is that they're simply phenomenally fucking stupid.

Everyone who's not born wealthy or impossibly lucky is suffering in some form. And yet for some reason these fuckers are supposed to get a free pass for joining a hate group because "It was presented so innocently! And I was feeling really bad at the time." Give me a fucking break.

Amen. Fuck people like that.

They certainly don't care about people like myself who aren't white.

And it's funny that Samantha wouldn't want her last name to be exposed, yet she wanted to put herself out there on National TV where everyone watching can see her face.

Geoff · Oct 23, 2019

MilesQ said:
Why is it only white people get this kind of rehabilitation in the media?

Has there ever been an ex member from a Jihadi pipeline interviewed like this?

Yes, many. Maajid Nawaz has made a career out of it - not that that's a bad thing. He's done a lot of good.

Powdered Egg · Oct 23, 2019

Geoff said:
Yes, many. Maajid Nawaz has made a career out of it - not that that's a bad thing. He's done a lot of good.

Does the US media give this any spotlight?

Deleted member 16657 · Oct 23, 2019

CormoranStrike said:
This was good as well

Quoting again, best 40 minutes you can spend today.

Geoff · Oct 23, 2019

Powdered Egg said:
Does the US media give this any spotlight?

I have no idea

Deleted member 31104 · Oct 23, 2019

In some respects it's not about race. I know it sounds stupid, but the playbook is to take people with unhappy or disgruntled in their lives, slowly perpetuate and build the grievance and direct the anger at the grievance on to an 'other'. That other could be differentiated by any number of things: race, wealth, gender, sexuality, class, nationality or politics. In some respects the actual choice of 'other' isn't really that important to the person being indoctrinated: I'm pretty sure they could use the same play book to make people hate puppies and kittens. Race is typical because it's always been an easy vector especially in the US given the countries history, but you have ethno-nationalists in Europe using the same playbook over nationality. Some of the Alt-right probably weren't racist, or at least didn't give race much thought, until they were well in. Don't get me wrong, if you read up on the ex-groomers from these networks, they do say it's far far easier to co-opt a racist, and I wouldn't be too forthcoming with the benefit of the doubt to any member of a hate group.

It doesn't tend to be some racist fucknut looking up the phone book for his local Nazi weekly meeting, it's basically a giant grooming network.

TheGhost · Oct 23, 2019

Crazy how it all started for her because she was trying to understand how her boyfriend got radicalized

Darryl M R · Oct 23, 2019

"I came to the realization instead of accepting that I am a generally mediocre person, those groups make you feel like you are exceptional for just existing"

"You are making it sound like that if you are a member of one of these groups the qualifications are be white and be a loser"

Light-Bringer · Oct 23, 2019

I find it weird that people praise slavery as a benefit or as an achievement, because I'm pretty sure that poor white people couldn't afford to buy slaves or were put out of jobs because slaves were cheaper.

Powdered Egg said:
Does the US media give this any spotlight?

I think he's been on the Bill Maher show a couple of times.

Darryl M R said:
"I came to the realization instead of accepting that I am a generally mediocre person, those groups make you feel like you are exceptional for just existing"

"You are making it sound like that if you are a member of one of these groups the qualifications are be white and be a loser"

I tried not to laugh.

captive · Oct 23, 2019

MilesQ said:
Why is it only white people get this kind of rehabilitation in the media?

Has there ever been an ex member from a Jihadi pipeline interviewed like this?

yes

https://www1.cbn.com/content/born-again-ex-islamic-terrorists-speak-out

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Lambs-Former-Terrorists-Redemption/dp/1501174290

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/08...ideology-and-how-to-help-the-most-vulnerable/

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...-prevent-further-terror-attacks-a7145816.html

Bakercat · Oct 23, 2019

Never underestimate someone with a silver tongue and a motive.

MilesQ · Oct 23, 2019

Geoff said:
Yes, many. Maajid Nawaz has made a career out of it - not that that's a bad thing. He's done a lot of good.

captive said:
yes

https://www1.cbn.com/content/born-again-ex-islamic-terrorists-speak-out

https://www.amazon.com/Blood-Lambs-Former-Terrorists-Redemption/dp/1501174290

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/08...ideology-and-how-to-help-the-most-vulnerable/

https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...-prevent-further-terror-attacks-a7145816.html

Huh. Thank you both.

Snowy · Oct 23, 2019

bionic77 said:
I used to think that this was entirely a backlash to Obama becoming president but the alt right/nationalist/garbage people movement seems to be happening world wide so I don't know why the fuck people want to waste their lives like this.

It's basically the only framework by which people can coherently square the circle of how the current status quo is just, and how we can justify denying rights and resources to the huge swath of refugees that are coming our way in the next few decades as the climate collapses.

Siggy-P · Oct 23, 2019

Tokyo_Funk said:
How the fuck can racism be labelled as or portrayed as "wholesome"?

Because you're trying to protect good Christian western nuclear family society from the evil dirty foreigners looking to rape your women and steal your jobs and stuff.

I don't joke, that's how it's often presented. The narrative is not "we are better because we are" it's " we are better because they are a threat to our wholesome values".

TAJ · Oct 23, 2019

I was shocked when the alt-right killed someone.
Also, my first exposure to them was talk of mass-lynchings.
ok.gif

Tawpgun · Oct 23, 2019

People ITT are being a little naive with sentiment that "you must be a braindead hateful racist idiot to get sucked into the alt right"

Psychology is a powerful thing. Once nice, "normal" people can be radicalized very easily. People want a sense of belonging and are VERY easily influenced by their environment. Especially if you never really branch out of that environment.

If your friends and communities you are a part of act in certain ways, you are going to do the same.

The big thing in modern times is these communities have moved online. And it's MUCH easier to surround yourself in an echo chamber and you start to believe more and more radical ideas because they are not challenged.

These same people could have just as easily become some kind of leftists too.

L Thammy · Oct 23, 2019

Sunster said:
I love how no one can admit they are racist while they are being racist just like no Republicans can admit trump is destroying the country while they are active in politics.

What's funny is that I've known people who would, if they're comfortable with you, gladly tell you that they're racist without provocation. They don't think of it as a serious thing. But when other people call them or people like them that word, when someone else is treating it as a serious issue, that's when they start to squirm.

Sunster · Oct 23, 2019

L Thammy said:
What's funny is that I've known people who would, if they're comfortable with you, gladly tell you that they're racist without provocation. They don't think of it as a serious thing. But when other people call them or people like them that word, when someone else is treating it as a serious issue, that's when they start to squirm.

in my experience when a white person is called a racist in person they act like they have been crucified.

FeliciaFelix · Oct 23, 2019

Aaron said:
Every part of the economy was meant to serve the nuclear family, headed by a white man who could support his family (including stay-at-home mom and 2.1 kids) on a factory job he got straight out of high school and would hold down for fifty years. His dad worked there, and his dad's dad, and his dad's dad's dad.

I bet that when she thinks "wholesome", it's this part with mom, dad, kids and a good job. I mean, it's an attractive idea to have a big wedding and kids and stability. I can see how it started like that before the propaganda machine started to whisper that darkies "ruined it". She probably wanted to marry and have babies and stability that with her psycho boyfriend. Heck, her loser boyfriend probably also wanted that.

Re white supremacy: the thought occured to me... if I had over a 100 years of an economic system cater to me and my every whim, but my family wasted all that time and privilege as coal miners, and never bothered to take advantage while the getting was good... I'd feel like loser and descendant of losers too.

L Thammy · Oct 23, 2019

Sunster said:
in my experience when a white person is called a racist in person they act like they have been crucified.

What I'm saying is that I've known people like that who will also happily tell you that they like racist jokes, or that they're "racist to everyone", or "I may be a racist but I'm not a Nazi". Like, they're perfectly aware of what they are and fine with the phrase when they're in company that they're comfortable with.

I'm not saying all of them are like this, but I think there are a substantial amount of could-be-your-neighbour white supremacists who are pretty aware of what they are.

Sunster · Oct 23, 2019

L Thammy said:
What I'm saying is that I've known people like that who will also happily tell you that they like racist jokes, or that they're "racist to everyone", or "I may be a racist but I'm not a Nazi". Like, they're perfectly aware of what they are and fine with the phrase when they're in company that they're comfortable with.

I'm not saying all of them are like this, but I think there are a substantial amount of could-be-your-neighbour white supremacists who are pretty aware of what they are.

Yeah I get you. I've heard of that, just not in my own circles.

Sunster · Oct 23, 2019

captive said:
i know its fun to dunk on "gullible idiots" and "racist morons" but we need these people to talk about it. Its also seemingly pretty damn easy to play on these peoples emotions and getting them to slowly enter the alt right arena. Hell even here on Era i've seen people say they watch some liberal youtube video only to get recommended alt right bullshit.
There are millions of kids out there right now, whose parents watch Fox News, literally every day. They're getting brain washed at a super early age. But yes, lets blame them because they're "just idiots."
propaganda is a helluva drug people.

this.

and this.

Its not like these videos are like hey come be racist with me. They start small "asking questions" red pilling you deeper and deeper into it.

this also should be required viewing.

..why exactly would they think they are racist?

Functioning adults should be capable of introspection. They are not infants.

PoppaBK · Oct 23, 2019

kmag said:
In some respects it's not about race. I know it sounds stupid, but the playbook is to take people with unhappy or disgruntled in their lives, slowly perpetuate and build the grievance and direct the anger at the grievance on to an 'other'. That other could be differentiated by any number of things: race, wealth, gender, sexuality, class, nationality or politics. In some respects the actual choice of 'other' isn't really that important to the person being indoctrinated: I'm pretty sure they could use the same play book to make people hate puppies and kittens. Race is typical because it's always been an easy vector especially in the US given the countries history, but you have ethno-nationalists in Europe using the same playbook over nationality. Some of the Alt-right probably weren't racist, or at least didn't give race much thought, until they were well in. Don't get me wrong, if you read up on the ex-groomers from these networks, they do say it's far far easier to co-opt a racist, and I wouldn't be too forthcoming with the benefit of the doubt to any member of a hate group.

It doesn't tend to be some racist fucknut looking up the phone book for his local Nazi weekly meeting, it's basically a giant grooming network.

Yes, you see this same thing with incels, Islamic fundamentalists, religious cults. Everyone should listen to the Jonestown tapes and read the accounts of some of the survivors, its impossible to understand fully but at the same time you can gain an intellectual understanding. Lots of people (maybe all people) are looking for a purpose in life, and when someone gives them that, especially when it comes with an exalted position in the world (starting a revolution, gods warrior, gods chosen, building a socialist Utopia free of segragation etc) it's amazing what kind of blinkers go on.

Muppet of a Man · Oct 23, 2019

bionic77 said:
I used to think that this was entirely a backlash to Obama becoming president but the alt right/nationalist/garbage people movement seems to be happening world wide so I don't know why the fuck people want to waste their lives like this.

Welcome to the culmination of social media and the internet meeting the globalization of the economy. Social media and the internet enable those who feel left out to share their resentment and scapegoat others who had nothing to do with the worldwide economic changes being experienced.

captive · Oct 23, 2019

Sunster said:
Functioning adults should be capable of introspection. They are not infants.

thank you for your a+ response to my post.

do you have any thoughts on Fox News brainwashing both adults and their kids?
Youtubes algorithm specifically pushing people down the alt right rabbit hole?
the How to Radicalize a Normie video?

Cause "functioning adults should be capable of introspection" isn't a winning argument against the radicalization of these people.

Kronotech · Oct 23, 2019

As awful as these situations are and as punchable as these peoples' faces are... I love seeing these stories of people who admit they were a fucking idiot and have come to realize what they did was horrible. After Trump's reign is over, I expect a lot more of these stories to come out. Sad to hear/read why they went down the path they did but glad they figured it out (not without leaving a mess in their path).

Sunster · Oct 23, 2019

captive said:
thank you for your a+ response to my post.

do you have any thoughts on Fox News brainwashing both adults and their kids?
Youtubes algorithm specifically pushing people down the alt right rabbit hole?
the How to Radicalize a Normie video?

Cause "functioning adults should be capable of introspection" isn't a winning argument against the radicalization of these people.

wow you're ready for an argument aren't you? already doing the combative patronizing replies. I understand how easy it is to be sucked into the racist rabbit hole. The easiest thing for a white person in the West to do is turn their brain off and start hating minorities. I understand that. I also believe, if they are going to spend time spewing vitriol and being a part of violent movements, they have earned the label "idiots" it's not my responsibility to coddle them into being a human being. You need to chill.

turtle553 · Oct 23, 2019

TheLostBigBoss said:
Pretty easy

1) Create an envrionment where people looking for a sense of belonging feel welcome.
2) Let them air out their grievances
3) Start planting seeds on why "the others" are more to blame than the persons owns failings, or the unrelated environmental factors around the person
4) Normalize the blame on minorities of all kinds and present the concept that "they" (the new people) are being robbed unjustly of what they deserve.
5) The new people in the group, coming into it already feeling like they have been dealt a bad hand, rationalize this new direction to blame issues in their life and the world on the targeted minority groups.
6) Amp it up to 11 and eventually the person is now your average alt right racist radical. The alt right group has created a sense of purpose and belonging and have created easy to identify targets on other political groups/people for everyone to attack and blame issues in life on.

Online forums help a lot. People may post extreme views just to fit in or be a troll without really believing them, but it normalizes the behavior. Other people see that and can think it's OK to think that way and that is just how people are. It's like comparing your life to an Instagram influencer without realizing how fake it all is.

gaogaogao · Oct 23, 2019

CormoranStrike said:
This was good as well

.

Deleted member 6173 · Oct 23, 2019

I would imagine ISIS recruiting is the same way

Kcannon · Oct 23, 2019

Sunster said:
Functioning adults should be capable of introspection. They are not infants.

You overestimate the human brain a lot.

Brainwashing uneducated people is easy. That's how most dictatorships work.

Sunster · Oct 23, 2019

Kcannon said:
You overestimate the human brain a lot.

Brainwashing uneducated people is easy.

yes i agree with this. but they earned a certain amount of blame and i don't reward anyone for waking up from being a racist.

Sign My Guestbook! · Oct 23, 2019

Sunster said:
yes i agree with this. but they earned a certain amount of blame and i don't reward anyone for waking up from being a racist.

probably also shouldn't reject them outright unless they've committed horrendous crimes

there's a good way to handle it

Deleted member 4614 · Oct 23, 2019

Sunster said:
in my experience when a white person is called a racist in person they act like they have been crucified.

I mean that makes sense. It's a serious accusation like calling them a murderer or pedophile. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it makes sense they would squirm.

excelsiorlef · Oct 23, 2019

Plumbob said:
I mean that makes sense. It's a serious accusation like calling them a murderer or pedophile. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but it makes sense they would squirm.

...

This is a joke yes?

Netherscourge · Oct 23, 2019

Tokyo_Funk said:
How the fuck can racism be labelled as or portrayed as "wholesome"?

By making white people look like victims.

sphagnum · Oct 23, 2019

It's kind of baffling to me that people can't seem to grasp that something bad could be seen as wholesome by people who don't see it as bad.

FantasticMrFoxdie · Oct 23, 2019

CormoranStrike said:
This was good as well

damn great watch

Steel · Oct 23, 2019

sphagnum said:
It's kind of baffling to me that people can't seem to grasp that something bad could be seen as wholesome by people who don't see it as bad.

Yeah. I mean, I'm not a fan of Bioshock Infinite, but it's pretty on point in its presentation of this phenomenon.

Deleted member 48897 · Oct 23, 2019

Lumination said:
IMO the tactics used here are very reminiscent of organized religion. Give disadvantaged people a sense of community and belonging and then try to convert them over time.

It's very much like how you can probably find textbooks at some parochial schools still being used that try to sanitize the KKK by going out of their way to point out these groups actually did invest in their communities. It's true, on some level, and accounts for part of their support, but it didn't excuse their outlook or the ways they went about doing that investment in general (i.e., at the expense of nonwhite communities).

But it's definitely part and parcel with the way these groups seem like they're being wholesome and supportive when they really ultimately are not.

Dark Cloud · Oct 23, 2019

This was a good read.

ABC News: Former alt-right member on how hate groups get people to join: 'It was presented as wholesome'

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