Holy shit.
And I say this as someone who hunts/target shoots. I'd stay far away from that
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Alec Baldwin “discharged” prop gun that killed ‘Rust’ cinematographer & injured director
- Thread starter St. Elmo's Fire
- Start date
And I say this as someone who hunts/target shoots. I'd stay far away from that
I think a lot of it is down to realism and the mechanics involved - it's very difficult to combine the look and the action of weapons (muzzle-flash + the weapon cycling) in a way that's convincing.
It's especially noticeable if you look at pre-CGI movies where a substitute is used - I was rewatching Predator recently and there's a bit where you see someone getting shot at point-blank range, and it's clear they're using some sort of fake gun that generates a flash and some smoke but otherwise doesn't look too convincing.
isnt it more crazy that over that 100+ years it's only been a handful of deaths from them?
I didn't. I was multitasking with some work and didn't read the name, just the quote. I'll fix it. Thank you.
Or maybe I just live by the GoodBurger motto, "I'm a dude, he's a dude, she's a dude, we're all dudes hey!"
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I hope one day the prosecutor uses this line in his/her closing arguments to put this POS behind bars " how safe they can be, and how they're not really problematic unless put in the wrong hands".
This is a bad excuse. The whole industry is about creating illusions and they show things "wrong" all the time. They intentionally showed how to slit your wrist wrong for decades. They literally invented the concept of designated drivers. They have sword and knife fights with fake blades (though they do use real ones for certain shots, they do not fight with them).
For sure but that doesn't really explain the lack of effort given how long it's been.
Yeah, there's even a desperate gun defence force that's popped up here to try and tell us decerning movie audiences will not stand for anything but the most realistic non-cgi gun flashes and bangs.
Let's first see who did the wrong thing, who neglected their duty and who went to target practice with these things.
It's from Alec's lawyers finally saying enough is enough, I'm sure. And, good. I hope they put the fear of God in him.
I kinda thought most of the time they're fake guns with either cg or real flashes, but the actor acts the hand recoil. Didn't know it's real guns that can fuck up real bad depending on what's loaded.
Sounds like her hands were the wrong hands all along.
If only we had a way of knowing who the wrong hands are before it's too late and somebody gets hurt/killed, then maybe her "gunz are awsum!!" stance wouldn't be completely idiotic.
I wish the whole employees driving long distances at night after long days thing was being treated as dangerously as people playing around with loaded guns.
If even lead actors like KJ Apa on Riverdale can crash, complain and get ignored, nothing will change.
Oh, it's this thread, where people refuse to acknowledge that guns are literally a thing created with the sole purpose of killing and try and say the solution is elsewhere. Please don't take our guns.
They're supposed to get hotel accommodations, if requested. But, of course, production didn't provide that for them.
I don't think that's really the takeaway. This is a different situation from normal gun control debates
Thats why I said, take the guns away, but don't stop there. Guns aren't the only reason people die on sets.
Seriously this.
I've been to the military, I have friends that hunt and do hobby shooting, I've done both and I believe you can do those things safely. So I'm certainly not "if you touched a gun than fuck you" person (even though I don't own a gun or plan to do so in the future).
But for real there are few bigger red flags than when someone try to tell you that guns are not really as dangerous as you might think.
It's hideous. I love cinema, but, I don't want anyone dying or being injured for the sake of more realism. I really could not care less.
Gun people are fucked-up weirdo's though.
I agree. The Twitter poster doesn't however. Their idea is that "fixing the guns issue doesn't fix all of the stunt issues and therefore it's not worth doing". You can do multiple things. Make car stunts safer, replace real guns with prop guns and CGI the shot, change the hours of shooting, etc... There's no singular fix that will magically make film production perfectly safe but if the choice is between do nothing and do something that saves people once every few decades then it's still worth doing something when there's no real downside to it except slightly higher costs and marginally less realism.
Looks like Baldwin was rehearsing drawing the gun when it went off. He was told by the AD that it was a "cold gun", meaning it is fully unloaded.
Check the Guardian article I posted earlier today, has all the details.
There is a real point to letting the obvious dangers of a gun on set take the blame for and be the scapegoat for a working environment that does not value safety, especially at the cost of production time.
Often times the safer thing to do isn't the cheapest thing to do. Firing blanks is cheaper than doing good CG muzzle flashes... but honestly... that's no good reason at all not to go the CG route. Proper safety harness rigging costs more too. You still need to do it, and if you don't hire a team who know what they're doing and pay for the right equipment to save a buck and someone gets hurt... well guess what? That's on you.
Odd they allowed a gun on set that could even take a real bullet. So many safety measures just completely ignored.
My understanding is that if a gun can shoot a blank, it can shoot a real bullet.
In that video, the prop master said guns on set are modified so they cant fit a normal bullet in the chamber. Only a blank.
This is a real dumb take in this particular context.
No prop is necessary on a set. It's not like real life where you need vehicles for transport and don't need guns at all. You don't need any of the dangerous things on a movie set. All of it could be done away with and replaced with CGI. Why are you alright with prop cars and stunts that kill dozens of stunt people but this kind of incident, whose victims in the past three decades can be counted on two hands, has you frothing? All of it traces back to negligence on set by the people in charge and that needs to be addressed before anything else.
That might work for modern guns, but not for period pieces.
So many. Sure, real guns are used on sets often and this was a film set in the 1800s. It was either cheaper to rent/borrow/beg or buy the real thing in this instance, the director wanted "authenticity," or both.
But 1) that gun should have never left the set, 2) there shouldn't have been real bullets accessible to anyone, 3) and real guns should never be left unattended on a prop cart like they're a glass mug.
This was not a community theatre production, either. It'd be one thing if one thing went wrong, but everything went wrong here.
...When it comes to film, I don't think it's off. Pyrotechnics and vehicle stunts can be really fucking dangerous if not done properly. People can and have died or suffered life-changing injuries from those, far more than from guns on set.
I'm all for strict gun control. I just don't think gun control really applies here when the actual problem is how cost-cutting and negligence in film production put people at risk. Those are what cause incidents like this to happen.
Is it? I know in a lot of cases CGI is way cheaper for many effects. Maybe it depends on the production (like if the production needs almost no CGI, not worth spinning up an entire CGI workstream just for a gunshot or two.)
What stunts are you referring to that killed dozens of stunt people, and more to the point, where are you getting that literally anyone is "alright" with them? Are you arguing against the practice of stunt drivers and cars in general? If so, well that's certainly a take, but I don't know what it has to do with the current incident.
Twilight Zone: The Movie had a stunt with a helicopter kill three people, two of them children. That's the worst I'm aware of. I think when the poster said dozens, they were referring to the collective number of injuries and deaths caused by vehicular accidents in film.
The point being made is that general on-set safety is more relevant problem than access to firearms specifically. The root causes that led to this incident are the same that lead to injuries/deaths from other dangerous parts of filmmaking.
As an example, the common reported injuries and deaths. Lots of issues with jumps and falls.
en.wikipedia.org
List of film and television accidents - Wikipedia
I'm not referring to a single stunt that has killed a dozen people at once. I am referring to the frequency with which people die unnecessarily due to negligence in accidents involving vehicles that are wholly unnecessary on set or stunts that are wholly unnecessary as compared to the number of deaths caused by guns that are wholly unnecessary on a set in a comparable amount of time.
The person who decided to equate gun violence with gun related accidents on movie sets and equate Adam Connover pointing out the central cause of these kinds of accidents (negligence by the people in charge and overworking staff) to gun nuts did so based on how unnecessary guns are. Which is dumb, because all of these things are unnecessary on a set.
Bingo.
Here's a lawyer's take. Since Alec is a producer, and there had been previous incidents, he might be liable after all.
There are already very strict gun controls in place on film sets and agreed to by the unions.
They weren't followed here. That's the issue.
They weren't followed here. That's the issue.
Of all things, criminal liability for Alec or any of the producers would be surprising unless, in some kind of email or communication chain, the producers were aware that actual ammunition was on the set and that people were allowed to put actual ammunition in the guns. But the investigations are still ongoing. There so much that still needs to be known before any can start flinging any blame.
Ban on live weapons on sets is being proposed in CA
Affidavit from the search warrant has been released, and is included in this Deadline article.
deadline.com
The chief electrician on "Rust" blames the death on the "negligence and unprofessionalism" of the people responsible, implied to be the armorer, prop master, and 1st AD. (In a particularly chilling bit, he says he was standing shoulder to shoulder with the DP when she was shot.):
deadline.com
A prop master walks through some of the many safety violations that took place leading up to the accident:
nypost.com
A prop master who turned down working for the Rust production has some choice words about the producers who tried to hire him. If nothing else, it confirms that the producers in question are complicit in creating the conditions that led to the accident:
www.latimes.com
Hey, remember that TMZ article where it was rumored that the gun involved in the accident was used for target practice? Welp:
www.thewrap.com
A ban on live weapons on sets is being proposed in CA:
nypost.com
‘Rust’: Released Affidavit Reveals More Details About Fatal Shooting Accident – Read It
A Santa Fe Sheriff’s Department detective's affidavit for a search warrant of the location of the Rust shooting has been released.
deadline.com
The chief electrician on "Rust" blames the death on the "negligence and unprofessionalism" of the people responsible, implied to be the armorer, prop master, and 1st AD. (In a particularly chilling bit, he says he was standing shoulder to shoulder with the DP when she was shot.):
‘Rust’ Chief Electrician Says Halyna Hutchins Death Was Result Of “Negligence And Unprofessionalism”
Serge Svetnoy, the gaffer, or chief electrician, on the set of Alec Baldwin‘s Rust is laying the blame for the accidental shooting death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the negligence of the film’s armorer and producers. In a scathing Facebook post yesterday, Svetnoy called out “the person...
deadline.com
A prop master walks through some of the many safety violations that took place leading up to the accident:
Hollywood prop master lists series of ‘breaches’ in fatal ‘Rust’ shooting
An experienced prop master detailed a series of mind-blowing protocol breaches that he blames in the fatal shooting involving Alec Baldin and Halyna Hutchins on the set of “Rust.”
nypost.com
A prop master who turned down working for the Rust production has some choice words about the producers who tried to hire him. If nothing else, it confirms that the producers in question are complicit in creating the conditions that led to the accident:
Veteran prop master turned down 'Rust' film: 'An accident waiting to happen'
Neal W. Zoromski has worked on movies big and small. But dealing with producers of “Rust” gave him “a bad feeling.”
www.latimes.com
Hey, remember that TMZ article where it was rumored that the gun involved in the accident was used for target practice? Welp:
Gun in Fatal Rust Shooting Used in Target Practice that Morning
Crew members on "Rust" had used the gun for live-ammunition target practice, or "plinking," and returned the gun to the set, an insider says
www.thewrap.com
A ban on live weapons on sets is being proposed in CA:
California lawmaker wants to ban live guns on movie sets after Baldwin mishap
A California state senator is proposing a ban on live weapons on movie sets in the wake of the accidental shooting death of a cinematographer by Alec Baldwin.
nypost.com
As an example, the common reported injuries and deaths. Lots of issues with jumps and falls.
List of film and television accidents - Wikipedia
George Lucas was right. Everything in the movie except the actors should be CGI'd.
OP
OP
Are you fucking kidding me?
deadline.com
This AD was already fired once…for a gun going off! WTF.
Alec Baldwin Fatal Shooting Film’s First AD Was “Fired” From 2019 Movie Over Gun Going Off, ‘Freedom’s Path’ Producer Confirms
More details are emerging of the pivotal crew member on the set of the Alec Baldwin film
deadline.com
This AD was already fired once…for a gun going off! WTF.