Amazon’s Lord of the Rings cannot use much of Tolkien's plot - Guardian
- Thread starter BrokenFiction
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Yeah, nothing here is surprising. However, they probably need to do some expectation management so they don't get criticized by casual viewers and critics for not slotting neatly into the movies.
Tolkien stated that they came to Middle-earth (possibly with Glorfindel, who at this stage was almost as great as a Maia) when matters became very dangerous in the Second Age of Middle-earth.
The quote from Tolkien:
From The History of Middle-earth, volume 12.
Sauron in the Second Age, trying to reform after his Master is banished at the end of the First Age, then falling into his old ways, aiding in the forging of the Rings of Power, causing the destruction of the Atlantis of Tolkien's story, and the final war of the Second Age seen in the prologue of the Fellowship.
2043 is the year it will happen in the UK. 70 years post-author's death.
I've always been fond of Michael Martinez's thoughts on this matter:
Flashbacks to Sauron's time as a yoga teacher pls
Edmond Dantès
So, as such a Tolkien fan, are you looking forward to seeing this?
I've noticed that in my years, I've kind of become rather ambivalent of adaptations of my favorite art. It's not so much that I object to them, but rather that if I come to love something, if I hear that the alternative version of something isn't good, or even just not as good as the original material, I tend to just not see it. That's kind of been the story of me and Game of Thrones for example: I saw the first 3 seasons which were pretty good...but the books were better, so I had no issues simply dropping it. That was at the time where GoT was at it's utter height, and it just not being as satisfying as the books had me put it down. Who knew how wise a decision that would have been in retrospect?
Anyway, you're following news about this adaptation very closely, so you clearly at least interested in seeing if it lives up to Tolkien's grandeur like Peterson's trilogy did. However, assuming it doesn't....well, Game of Thrones is just one example of where the massive emotional investment put in was not repaid in kind by the storyteller. Assuming it Hobbits itself, what's your policy on dealing with the disappointment of seeing a story you love mishandled?
So, as such a Tolkien fan, are you looking forward to seeing this?
I've noticed that in my years, I've kind of become rather ambivalent of adaptations of my favorite art. It's not so much that I object to them, but rather that if I come to love something, if I hear that the alternative version of something isn't good, or even just not as good as the original material, I tend to just not see it. That's kind of been the story of me and Game of Thrones for example: I saw the first 3 seasons which were pretty good...but the books were better, so I had no issues simply dropping it. That was at the time where GoT was at it's utter height, and it just not being as satisfying as the books had me put it down. Who knew how wise a decision that would have been in retrospect?
Anyway, you're following news about this adaptation very closely, so you clearly at least interested in seeing if it lives up to Tolkien's grandeur like Peterson's trilogy did. However, assuming it doesn't....well, Game of Thrones is just one example of where the massive emotional investment put in was not repaid in kind by the storyteller. Assuming it Hobbits itself, what's your policy on dealing with the disappointment of seeing a story you love mishandled?
Oh, Numenor or whatever, the island when men tried to sail west. That sounds kind of boring to me. So the estate is allowing them to use material from the Silmarillion but not the Hobbit or Lord?
Never!! Probs will append a subtitle to it like "The Second Age" or whatever
Very misleading title, had me worried for a moment. This is good news and doesn't change what we already know about the project. There's zero reason for more of the third age to be touched.
That's actually good. That way they can't mess around with the books/movies. They are classics (except the hobbit movies) and it would be criminal to touch them.
I usually disagree with a lot of Christopher Tolkien's decisions but this is one I agree with. Let them play about during a time period that isn't fleshed out. The Tolkien estate get a nice load of lettuce, keeps LOTR popular, and hopefully can only improve upon the legacy of Tolkien.
I usually disagree with a lot of Christopher Tolkien's decisions but this is one I agree with. Let them play about during a time period that isn't fleshed out. The Tolkien estate get a nice load of lettuce, keeps LOTR popular, and hopefully can only improve upon the legacy of Tolkien.
Amazon probably has the rights to material in The Lord of the Rings, but not The Hobbit. I laid out my reasoning for why I interpret Shippey's comments in this way in a longish post here, but suffice to say that the editorializing on this interview (starting with the original fan blog post) has been deeply unhelpful. It's worth noting that in the original interview, Shippey stated (when asked if the First and Third Ages were on the table), "if it is not described or mentioned in the Lord of the Rings or in the appendices, they probably cannot use it" (my emphasis). This is inconsistent with the idea that Amazon is banned from referencing LOTR, and more likely means they are not allowed to use First or Third Age material from Tolkien's posthumously published works.
This is probably not a Christopher Tolkien decision, as he stepped down from his role as a director of the Tolkien Estate shortly before the series was announced--probably around the time the Estate started approaching studios to see who was interested in coughing up the big bucks. Christopher remains the literary executor of his father's works, but the Estate as an entity appears to now be steered mainly by younger members of the family, including Christopher's eldest son, Simon Tolkien.
It seems doubtful, though whatever the Estate's private opinions were, they didn't get a say.
The Tolkien Estate is not involved in the licensing of video games based on The Lord of the Rings or The Hobbit. Those adaptation rights are held by the same company (Middle-earth Enterprises) that owns the film rights to those two books. Those are separate from the rights to make video games based on the movies. For several years, there were essentially competing franchises of book-based and film-based LOTR games, published by Vivendi and EA respectively. However, the rights to both sets of IP have been held by the same company--initially EA, now WBIE--since 2005.
I'm tempering my expectations for this show after been highly disappointed with The Hobbit trilogy, but I am allowing myself to hope just a little that it may meet or even exceed my expectations.
I've seen plenty of examples where a favourite book of mine has been adapted rather poorly into film, The Count of Monte Cristo for example, but also examples where an adaptation has positively surprised me, the anime adaptation of the very same story.
To quote Alexandre Dumas from The Three Musketeers;
"So rapid is the flight of dreams upon the wings of imagination."
Sometimes you just can help been swept up by the excitement.
There will be humans, elves, dwarves and other fantastical beings and all the typical Tolkien tropes, so they have a lot to work with.
As long as the writers are competent enough to stay true to the themes of Tolkein while making good use of the rich setting - then it could all turn out right.
Consider how Star Trek has continued as an IP with stories and characters that exceed the scope of original series.
Seeing as Tolkien's world is built on language, I hope that the invented characters, place names, weapons etc all follow his template. He agonised over every name so the showrunners should too. As far as I am aware, Tolkien is the only author whose invented languages evolved naturally between races/sub races, much like our own words sound similar to, but are not exactly the same as our near neighbours.
I don't see the showrunners taking liberties in this regard, and I'm sure the Tolkien Estate will be keeping a close eye on this. They have a plethora of names available to them from Tolkien's Second Age canon, so creating new characters seems a bit pointless when they can fully flesh out the pre-existing ones.
The article isn't really clear that the things in the opening to the Fellowship are off limits.
I always assumed this was going to be a 2nd Age show about the casting and corrupting force of the Ring of Power. Basically the story of Sauron from his coming to power to his physical form being destroyed.
I always assumed this was going to be a 2nd Age show about the casting and corrupting force of the Ring of Power. Basically the story of Sauron from his coming to power to his physical form being destroyed.
Having dug deep into Tolkien myself, not really. I'm pretty open in my dislike of Jackson's adaptation, and I can't imagine this will be much better. It'll be too gritty, violent, the colors will be dingy and faded, and everything will be far more "epic" than Tolkien ever intended.
Doesn't seem like much of a revelation since it's been known for awhile it's set in the Second Age.
That aesthetic is more in line with the Second Age though, post War of Wrath, at the height of Numenorean colonialism.