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chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain

Abstract
A processing device is provided which includes memory and a processor. The processor is configured to receive an input image having a first resolution, generate linear down-sampled versions of the input image by down-sampling the input image via a linear upscaling network and generate non-linear down-sampled versions of the input image by down-sampling the input image via a non-linear upscaling network. The processor is also configured to convert the down-sampled versions of the input image into pixels of an output image having a second resolution higher than the first resolution and provide the output image for display

[0008] Conventional super-resolution techniques include a variety of conventional neural network architectures which perform super-resolution by upscaling images using linear functions. These linear functions do not, however, utilize the advantages of other types of information (e.g., non-linear information), which typically results in blurry and/or corrupted images. In addition, conventional neural network architectures are generalizable and trained to operate without significant knowledge of an immediate problem. Other conventional super-resolution techniques use deep learning approaches. The deep learning techniques do not, however, incorporate important aspects of the original image, resulting in lost color and lost detail information.

[0009] The present application provides devices and methods for efficiently super-resolving an image, which preserves the original information of the image while upscaling the image and improving fidelity. The devices and methods utilize linear and non-linear up-sampling in a wholly learned environment.

[0010] The devices and methods include a gaming super resolution (GSR) network architecture which efficiently super resolves images in a convolutional and generalizable manner. The GSR architecture employs image condensation and a combination of linear and nonlinear operations to accelerate the process to gaming viable levels. GSR renders images at a low quality scale to create high quality image approximations and achieve high framerates. High quality reference images are approximated by applying a specific configuration of convolutional layers and activation functions to a low quality reference image. The GSR network approximates more generalized problems more accurately and efficiently than conventional super resolution techniques by training the weights of the convolutional layers with a corpus of images.

It seems they use AI like DLSS. It will be available for PC, Xbox Series and PS5.
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
Kinda sounds like they changed everything mid-development as they were initially supposed to go with some fancy algorithmic solution without using a neural network. Doesn't exactly bode well.
 

BobbeMalle

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,019
So this is the tech that's gonna keep the consoles from being outdated in a few years. Nice, can't wait!
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
Did AMD or Sony/MS say this's gonna be on next gen consoles, or is this just speculation since next gen hardware doesn't lack the hardware needed for this (I assume it doesn't)?
 
OP
OP
chris 1515

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain

Linus From Linus tech tips said AMD talk about it in a media briefing and want it cross platform.

While AMD didn't mention FidelityFX Super Resolution during the Radeon RX 6700 XT launch, Linus Sebastian in the video above claims that in a media briefing, AMD is not "rushing it out the door on only one new top-end card," but instead "want it to be cross-platform, in every sense of the word."

This, Sebastian claims, doesn't just mean AMD's existing PC GPUs, but also "the ones inside consoles."
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,679
The Milky Way
It says it was filed (and therefore written) in 2019, and yet only a couple of months ago AMD sounded pretty clueless about their solution. Which is weird. Bluffing? Or is this patent not necessarily indication of the current solution they're working on? Also where does it mention supported platforms?
 
OP
OP
chris 1515

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
It says it was filed (and therefore written) in 2019, and yet only a couple of months ago AMD sounded pretty clueless about their solution. Which is weird. Also where does it mention supported platforms?

They were not clueless, they didn't want Nvidia to know what is exactly what they prepare.

No but read my post above during a media briefing AMD told to the press it wll work on PC and current gen consoles.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,857
Through a quick reading of it, it seems to rely on Convolutional Neural Networks, its a variant of deep learning that performs well on images. But that also seems to be kinda it? Just applying a convolution layer on sub regions of the image to generate a higher resolution image. Not super confident about this solution if that is all that it is about.
Kinda sounds like they changed everything mid-development as they were initially supposed to go with some fancy algorithmic solution without using a neural network. Doesn't exactly bode well.
Or maybe wait until these things are getting revealed and dont create narratives off youtube tech insiders, because this is practically never how it works.
It says it was filed (and therefore written) in 2019, and yet only a couple of months ago AMD sounded pretty clueless about their solution. Which is weird. Bluffing? Or is this patent not necessarily indication of the current solution they're working on? Also where does it mention supported platforms?
realistically speaking, they most definitely know very much what the solution is, they just dont want to talk about it until it is ready to be talked about.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
Kinda sounds like they changed everything mid-development as they were initially supposed to go with some fancy algorithmic solution without using a neural network. Doesn't exactly bode well.
Setting out to beat Nvidia and ending up with a cheap imitation.

the old AMD is back, yall…
 

Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,657
Or maybe wait until these things are getting revealed and dont create narratives off youtube tech insiders, because this is practically never how it works.
I have not watched a single tech YouTuber's take on AMD Super Resolution and my post was specifically referring to the patent in the OP and previous official information from AMD. But do tell me more about how this works, condescending ERA user.

This was filed in 2019, so if anything it might be the opposite way around.
Now that makes more sense, OP should probably add that bit in the title.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,857
I have not watched a single tech YouTuber's take on AMD Super Resolution and my post was specifically referring to the patent in the OP and previous official information from AMD. But do tell me more about how this works, condescending ERA user.
These companies dont suddenly throw away all the work that they have done for other solutions within months of the feature's release, its millions upon millions of R&D costs. If this is what AMD's Super Resolution is about, then that is what that it always has been, a simple image upscaling handled by a CNN layer.
And as been pointed out above, this patent is from 2 years ago.
 

riotous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,349
Seattle
Through a quick reading of it, it seems to rely on Convolutional Neural Networks, its a variant of deep learning that performs well on images. But that also seems to be kinda it? Just applying a convolution layer on sub regions of the image to generate a higher resolution image. Not super confident about this solution if that is all that it is about.
It kinda sounds like DLSS 2.0 to me but I'm not some expert or anything.
 

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,630
Italy
These companies dont suddenly throw away all the work that they have done for other solutions within months of the feature's release, its millions upon millions of R&D costs. If this is what AMD's Super Resolution is about, then that is what that it always has been, a simple image upscaling handled by a CNN layer.
And as been pointed out above, this patent is from 2 years ago.
The patent date in the upper right corner is updated as of today?
 

eggroll

Member
Apr 18, 2021
218
We'll have to wait and see, but anyone who keeps up with the latest in DL and computer vision knows Nvidia is much more active here, consistently on the cutting edge of the research.
Would absolutely love to be pleasantly surprised.
Edit: I'd really hold off on trying to guess their actual approach from the patent. Patents use weird language.
 
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modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
17,857
It kinda sounds like DLSS 2.0 to me but I'm not some expert or anything.
I havent read too much into DLSS 2.0 but isnt it relying on more information than just the raw image output? Motion vectors I believe? This seems to just use a CNN layer on the pixel data, which I guess will be cheaper to upscale the image than say DLSS, but I dobut the results would be as good as that.
Its a wait and see of course, but its a more simplified solution than i expected, given that this is supposed to represent everything that is going on and its not oversimplifying on what sort of data is used as an input.
The patent date in the upper right corner is updated as of today?
updated today, was filed 2 years ago. It was just to point out that AMD didnt suddenly scramble to think about something in the last 3 months.
 

the-pi-guy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,277
Kinda sounds like they changed everything mid-development as they were initially supposed to go with some fancy algorithmic solution without using a neural network. Doesn't exactly bode well.
Their previous comments didn't suggest they weren't using neural networks. They just said they were evaluating a few different techniques.

It says it was filed (and therefore written) in 2019, and yet only a couple of months ago AMD sounded pretty clueless about their solution. Which is weird. Bluffing? Or is this patent not necessarily indication of the current solution they're working on? Also where does it mention supported platforms?
Patents aren't necessarily an indication of what they're working on, especially if they have multiple research projects.
 

Roytheone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,159

Linus From Linus tech tips said AMD talk about it in a media briefing and want it cross platform.

If we get into a situation where half of the games on pc will support up scaling that only works on amd gpus while the other half will only support it on nvidia gpus, that sounds pretty disastrous for pc compared to consoles where it will be supported by all games. Is this a valid concern?
 
OP
OP
chris 1515

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
If we get into a situation where half of the games on pc will support up scaling that only works on amd gpus while the other half will only support it on nvidia gpus, that sounds pretty disastrous for pc compared to consoles where it will be supported by all games. Is this a valid concern?

www.pcgamer.com

Even Nvidia graphics cards could benefit from AMD's FidelityFX Super Resolution

Rumours now point to a June release for AMD's DLSS-a-like.
 

starblue

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,742
Consoles need DLSS-like solution ! This is great news if they deliver something at that level.
 

P40L0

Member
Jun 12, 2018
7,630
Italy
See the date when if was filed November 18, 2019 . The upper right corner is the date the patent is published. Not the date when AMD filed the patent.

updated today, was filed 2 years ago. It was just to point out that AMD didnt suddenly scramble to think about something in the last 3 months.

Yeah, no doubts about that.
This kind of implementation required years of R&D by NVIDIA so, even if late, same thing is happening for AMD now.

I'm really eager to see how well this will translate on Gen9 consoles, especially Series X|S which also have full RDNA2 features on chip including hardware ML.
 

Skyebaron

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,416
This could be great if its like DLSS 2.1. The first iteration of DLSS was just bad and probably where this will start at. Love to be proven wrong.
 

niall

Member
Oct 30, 2017
118
If we get into a situation where half of the games on pc will support up scaling that only works on amd gpus while the other half will only support it on nvidia gpus, that sounds pretty disastrous for pc compared to consoles where it will be supported by all games. Is this a valid concern?

From everything AMD has been saying, it's very likely this tech will work on NVIDIA cards as well.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,071
Fascinating implications for consoles if true. You'll basically end up with the equivalent of a mid-gen refresh but without the need for the consumer to pay for another console or the manufacturer to invest a fortune in hardware development.
If we get into a situation where half of the games on pc will support up scaling that only works on amd gpus while the other half will only support it on nvidia gpus, that sounds pretty disastrous for pc compared to consoles where it will be supported by all games. Is this a valid concern?
I don't understand how this would be any different from PC games being designed to run on both AMD GPU's and Nvidia GPU's?
 

Stacey

Banned
Feb 8, 2020
4,610
If we get into a situation where half of the games on pc will support up scaling that only works on amd gpus while the other half will only support it on nvidia gpus, that sounds pretty disastrous for pc compared to consoles where it will be supported by all games. Is this a valid concern?

Yes, but, no-one gave a shit when it was Nvidia with the proprietary bullshit. So if amd do go with the "only works with our gpus" rhetoric we only have ourselves to blame.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,815
Even if AMD's solution is not quite on par with Nvidia's it would still be a great option for gamers. There are a ton of people even on this forum that can't perceive the flaws of much simpler solutions like checkerboard rendering so I think that a whole lot of people would be quite happy to trade a bit of image degradation for massive performance benefits. I am pretty excited and I hope we get more information soon.
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,920
Even if AMD's solution is not quite on par with Nvidia's it would still be a great option for gamers. There are a ton of people even on this forum that can't perceive the flaws of much simpler solutions like checkerboard rendering so I think that a whole lot of people would be quite happy to trade a bit of image degradation for massive performance benefits. I am pretty excited and I hope we get more information soon.

Yeah even if simplified this is going to be great for base next-gen consoles starting from midway through the gen.
 

LightKiosk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,479
If this can somehow translate to my 5700 XT so I don't have to upgrade, that would make me a happy camper.
 

Pottuvoi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,065
I havent read too much into DLSS 2.0 but isnt it relying on more information than just the raw image output? Motion vectors I believe? This seems to just use a CNN layer on the pixel data, which I guess will be cheaper to upscale the image than say DLSS, but I dobut the results would be as good as that.
Its a wait and see of course, but its a more simplified solution than i expected, given that this is supposed to represent everything that is going on and its not oversimplifying on what sort of data is used as an input.
Motion vectors and previous frames, it's also common to use mimap bias to get extra information from textures.
If this is single frame solution, I have doubts on it's quality. (like DLLS1)
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,823
Latest on AMD's FSR (FidelityFX Super Resolution) straight from their own mouth a few days ago:



Scott Herkelman said:
Well, what I could tell you is that you don't need machine learning to do it. You can do this many different ways, and we're evaluating the many different ways.

That doesn't sound much like it's going to be using AI to do the upscaling.
 

Ravager777

Member
Jan 1, 2018
877
Interesting.

On another note, sort of misleading title, it's only a patent application and not a granted patent.
 

KCroxtonJr

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,495
I really, really hope this works out and is indeed cross-platform. Would be a gamechanger especially if it works on consoles, but also slightly older video cards considering how hard it is to upgrade these days.

I'm hoping this turns out to be a similar situation to how things turned out with VRR
 

dsk1210

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,394
Edinburgh UK
Hopefully it can come close to DLSS because that is some black magic fuckery. Been playing Metro Exodus Enhanced Edition with full global illumination at 4k on a 3070 with balanced DLSS and it looks stunning.
 

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
If we get into a situation where half of the games on pc will support up scaling that only works on amd gpus while the other half will only support it on nvidia gpus, that sounds pretty disastrous for pc compared to consoles where it will be supported by all games. Is this a valid concern?
Not really, because AMDs tech is open for all vendors. It should work on Nvidia cards as well.
 

Micerider

Member
Nov 11, 2017
1,180
Everything will hang on the cost/quality ratio. There are multiple reconstruction techniques around that are having some results with a somewhat "light" algorythmic overhear. For Super-Resolution to be desirable, it should do better "quality" without costing too much to implement performance-wise. I am not expecting DLSS 2.1 quality at all cost, but if it gives us something better than techniques from games engines, I'd be happy.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,275
Fascinating implications for consoles if true. You'll basically end up with the equivalent of a mid-gen refresh but without the need for the consumer to pay for another console or the manufacturer to invest a fortune in hardware development.

I don't understand how this would be any different from PC games being designed to run on both AMD GPU's and Nvidia GPU's?
I don't understand the whole focus on consoles in this thread about it being a game changer because this is just going to be one of many upscaling solutions. Consoles already have excellent solutions to upscale that come pretty close to native. As a result this really doesn't change anything for consoles.

I really don't think good upscaling implementations on consoles are that far away from DLSS 2.0 and I certainly wouldn't hope for AMD to beat them.

RE8 is a good recent example of this where even DF said its CBR method is almost indistinguishable from native, outside of the very low resolutions on the reflections but this is a flaw for every upscaling tech if devs don't allow you to change the internal res of them. DLSS has the same problem in games that use raytraced reflections.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,679
The Milky Way
I don't understand the whole focus on consoles in this thread about it being a game changer because this is just going to be one of many upscaling solutions. Consoles already have excellent solutions to upscale that come pretty close to native. As a result this really doesn't change anything for consoles.
Strong disagree. And those reconstruction techniques are already scaling from a relatively high resolution, eg 3840x1440 for CB.

Better to compare reconstruction from a lower resolution. eg DLSS going from 1080p to 2160p is a night and day improvement over Returnal's upscale from 1080p to 2160p.

So an equivalent to DLSS would allow similar image quality we get now with reconstruction techniques, but rendering from an even lower internal resolution. Meaning faster framerates or the power can be spent on other areas.

Or actually enjoy better than native by AI upscaling from 1440p.
 
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