An just like that, I lost my brothers to the right wing body snatchers.

[Deleted member 44129]

UK here. I thought my brothers were quite left wing.... I just woke up to find my youngest brother bitching because there is a petition to change the name of his kids school, as it is named after a slave trader. He says "but this is history, you cant delete history", and "Sick of these snowflakes". Then my other brother says "I was listening to Joe Rogan the other day and......". I reply "This is history? Snowflakes? Joe Rogan? Fucking Hell". My brother says "What's wrong with Joe Rogan", and I reply that I have often heard people I work with bring up right wing opinions, and sooner or later they mention that they've been listening to Joe Rogan, and he's seen by some as a right wing Trojan horse so I am suspicious of the guy. The counter-point from my brother ? "You have issues". So yeah, I guess Im a loony lefty, snowflake, mentally ill hard left extremist now, and it's not that I'm spotting how successful right wing talking points seem to be spreading these days.

I despair. What the fuck is wrong with people.

 

[Deleted member 31817]

could be a lot worse 🤷‍♀️

 

[Deleted member 290]

Had this with a friend of mine a few years back, I was talking about how Tommy Robinson should probably be locked up for inciting racial hatred after insisting that every Muslim in the UK needs to be treated like an enemy combatant, to which my friend replied "Well, they probably should." and then a huge argument ensued, capped off by him storming out yelling "fucking leftists, no tolerance for ideas outside your little bubble". He's now fully on board with Soros conspiracies, is obsessed with the concept of white genocide, claims caucasians actually evolved in Russia and that BLM is a Russian plot to destabilise the western world, etc.

Came out of nowhere, as well. I guess we'd never really talked about politics much in the past few years (I've known him since we were kids), but just assumed upon a standard level of compassion, empathy and basic human decency that seemingly isn't there any more.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I'd try to do some sort of intervention op. Sit them down, prepare your case, try to explain to them the ways in which they are being manipulated (though be careful using that word).

could be a lot worse 🤷‍♀️

Click to shrink...

Doesn't sound great either.

 

[King Alamat]

It's amazing to think that merely having a platform makes you an authority on how the world works, especially when what you're most known for is being the host of Fear Factor and MMA commentary.

 

[KoopaTheCasual]

That fucking sucks man. Sorry.

Since they're family that literally live with you, and (seem) young, you should probably try to ween them off that bullshit.

If they look up to you, you gotta convince them that not only is the shit they're saying factually incorrect, but it's embarrassing/ "lame"

Make them self-conscious of having dumb opinions, so they seek ones out that can't be refuted with fact (i.e. non-bigoted opinions)

 

[ItRhymesWithDoom]

to be fair, outside of Era there are few people or places that put red flags on Joe Rogan. Had the exact same conversation with my brother, so that's not just you.

Keep in mind that most people coast through life staying as ignorant as they can on everything but what they have to do for a living, and most do even that poorly.

 

[Temascos]

Right Wingers have been deleting history for who knows how long with silencing non-white voices through intimidation and fearmongering. Everytime a black character is a lead in a game/show/whatever there are chuds who perk up suddenly with "Political Correctness" as their go to slogan in order to shut down the conversation.

It's a pain in the ass. Critical Thinking should be taught in schools because it's quite clear that nobody is willing to understand otherwise.

 

[JasonV]

to be fair, outside of Era there are few people or places that put red flags on Joe Rogan.

Click to shrink...

Joe Rogan is a well known enabler of the alt-right.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Critical Thinking should be taught in schools

Click to shrink...

Absolutely it should be a mandatory subject starting somewhere in high school maybe.

 

[game-biz]

Yeah, the people that often listen to Rogan seem to idolize him, and more often than not he'll have guests that spew idiotic, hateful shit while Rogan just nods along. It can be pretty irritating to have to listen to somebody constantly talk about the "mind blowing" information they learn from Rogan, like how aliens built the pyramids, "both sides" arguments, or how SJW's are ruining everything. Maybe it's entertaining if your stoned and not really taking it seriously? I've tried to listen to him a few times before, but I just can't do it. Way, waaaay too much stupid shit being discussed for me to handle, with only a select few episodes that are fantastic. But that's usually because the guest is great.

 

[aisback]

UK here. I thought my brothers were quite left wing.... I just woke up to find my youngest brother bitching because there is a petition to change the name of his kids school, as it is named after a slave trader. He says "but this is history, you cant delete history", and "Sick of these snowflakes". Then my other brother says "I was listening to Joe Rogan the other day and......". I reply "This is history? Snowflakes? Joe Rogan? Fucking Hell". My brother says "What's wrong with Joe Rogan", and I reply that I have often heard people I work with bring up right wing opinions, and sooner or later they mention that they've been listening to Joe Rogan, and he's seen by some as a right wing Trojan horse so I am suspicious of the guy. The counter-point from my brother ? "You have issues". So yeah, I guess Im a loony lefty, snowflake, mentally ill hard left extremist now, and it's not that I'm spotting how successful right wing talking points seem to be spreading these days.

I despair. What the fuck is wrong with people.

Click to shrink...

I've had a similar experience with a friend. He's gone full QANON

 

[Statik]

Cut them off. Don't have any contact with them. If they still refuse to reconsider their hateful views, permanently sever times with them. Family does not trump the freedom of other people.

 

[Fatoy]

Joe Rogan is a well known enabler of the alt-right.

Click to shrink...

By whom? For most people he's the talkshow host who's at the top of their Spotify podcast recommendations.

(To be clear: I know he's a right wing idiot, but I don't think it's fair to assume everyone does.)

 

[Tangyn]

By whom? For most people he's the talkshow host who's at the top of their Spotify podcast recommendations.

(To be clear: I know he's a right wing idiot, but I don't think it's fair to assume everyone does.)

Click to shrink...

Yep this.

There's a reason Spotify paid him a gazillion dollars. Vassssssst majority of people have no clue / don't care.

Also UKer and also lost my little brother to this. Ben Shapiro "owning black lives matters commentators" was his gateway.. I've honestly just almost stopped talking to him, he went fully down that rabbit hole.

Sadly it seems to be more and more common on this swampy fucking island.

 

[iapetus]

Cut them off. Don't have any contact with them. If they still refuse to reconsider their hateful views, permanently sever times with them. Family does not trump the freedom of other people.

Click to shrink...

Yes, take this route. Ignore the fact that it's exactly what the right wing brainwashing machine wants - isolate people from other viewpoints, cut them off from anyone who thinks differently to them.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

Yes, take this route. Ignore the fact that it's exactly what the right wing brainwashing machine wants - isolate people from other viewpoints, cut them off from anyone who thinks differently to them.

Click to shrink...

Cults are extremely hard to deal with. One of those things you'd need, like, a professional ghostbuster to handle. Except for cults? Cultbuster?

 

[Asklepios]

How old is he? If you think his ideologies were implanted recently and he is impressionable, why not try and explain to him the salience of not having a salve trader name on anything.

He is your family, so you know him the best. But if you want to change minds of otherwise sensible folk, reason it out calmly, despite them resorting to name calling.

 

[Deleted member 8166]

lost a friend of mine like that. he was VERY left wing, during a phase where he felt lost started reading Jordan Peterson, now he is full on "sjw is a curse, only logic should be considered" shit.

I had to cut him out of my life completely.

 

[Deleted member 50374]

Do your brother love more a random dude on YouTube than you? Ask him

 

[Deleted member 44129]

I work with a young black man. He told me that the BLM movement is fairly "over dramatic". He started quoting some statistics trying to claim that black people don't actually have it so bad in the US in terms of arrests. I asked his source. Ben Shapiro. I told him to be weary of Shapiro. I learned he had heard of Shaprio via Joe Rogan's podcast.

I know two people at work (I talk about social contacts via work a lot, I know, but I do work with about 300 people, so there's bound to be some dickheads among them) who are self proclaimed "centrists" who are very vocally pro-Brexit. Both of them occasionally mention Joe Rogan.

Just saying.

 

[Fatoy]

Sadly it seems to be more and more common on this swampy fucking island.

Click to shrink...

I'm also in the UK, and it's kind of inevitable this was going to happen. We import so much of our entertainment from the USA (because most of our TV dramas are rubbish) that we were bound to wind up internalising at least some of their news-entertainment "just asking questions" stuff.

Not that we don't have our own far-right fools. We're not short on home-grown talent there. But I think the difference is that ours tend to be fairly well-known and exposed in the UK, so they have limited success outside their existing niches. But I guarantee you there are people in the UK listening to Joe Rogan right now who loathe the likes of Katie Hopkins, because they know what she stands for, while Rogan is just a popular entertainer from America whose podcast keeps popping up in their queue.

What's scary is that it's that easy to start someone down the path of indoctrination. Spotify have sent me four or five different notifications and emails to try and get me to listen to Michelle Obama's podcast in the last week. There's nothing wrong with Michelle Obama, obviously, but if someone else is getting the same notifications about Joe Rogan, there's your way in to a crowd that is, in all likelihood, ignorant of what Rogan's actually about.

This all reminds me of that time Ben Shapiro called Andrew Neil left wing or liberal. Just because we speak the same language doesn't mean we automatically know what side of the political spectrum the other country's TV and radio figures fall on.

 

[Ravensmash]

Sorry to hear that OP.

Have you tried sharing other more centrist/left-leaning podcasts with them? Might be a good way to introduce other ways of thinking to counterbalance what they've heard elsewhere.

Yep this.

There's a reason Spotify paid him a gazillion dollars. Vassssssst majority of people have no clue / don't care.

Also UKer and also lost my little brother to this. Ben Shapiro "owning black lives matters commentators" was his gateway.. I've honestly just almost stopped talking to him, he went fully down that rabbit hole.

Sadly it seems to be more and more common on this swampy fucking island.

Click to shrink...

I don't know how anyone can take Shapiro seriously after that awful interview where Andrew Neil (who is himself a conservative - albeit someone who seemingly has a bit of intelligence about him) thoroughly embarrassed him.

It was the first time I'd had any real exposure to him, and quite frankly, the last time I felt I needed to.

 

[FaceHugger]

Joe Rogan is a well known enabler of the alt-right.

Click to shrink...

Rogan: "Uhhh yea" *seems to be thoughtful for a second, leans in* "X is wrong, yea yea, but shouldn't we also listen to the guy who hates the <insert group here>?".

Guest: "Yes also people I disagree with suck"

Rogan: "Yea. Yea. You know I sometimes punch people in the face in a ring for fun?"

Guest: "I heard. Also I still really hate those people we were talking about earlier"

SPOTIFY $100m DEAL REE HAA

 

[Gawge]

I imagine he must be up in arms about the problems that lots of museums currently find themselves in due to a lack of funding.



Currently the entire museum sector is under serious threat. I am sure that he, and everyone else who cares so much about "not erasing history" will be putting significant pressure on the government to fund museums?

 

[Bold One]

I work with a young black man. He told me that the BLM movement is fairly "over dramatic". He started quoting some statistics trying to claim that black people don't actually have it so bad in the US in terms of arrests. I asked his source. Ben Shapiro. I told him to be weary of Shapiro. I learned he had heard of Shaprio via Joe Rogan's podcast.

I know two people at work (I talk about social contacts via work a lot, I know, but I do work with about 300 people, so there's bound to be some dickheads among them) who are self proclaimed "centrists" who are very vocally pro-Brexit. Both of them occasionally mention Joe Rogan.

Just saying.

Click to shrink...

Most people aren't critical thinkers, mostly down to the fact we live in a chaotic and confusing world, as a result, people are more willing to absorb easy answers and simplistic overtures to help them make sense of the chaos.

In come the charismatic sociopaths and cults of personalities, its no secret where these people come from - they thrive on being "characters" come from. The stage is perfectly set for them to peddle their bullshit and there are too many lost young men looking for answers and a path marching lock and step in their assembly lines.

 

[Br3wnor]

ERA really fucks with peoples minds, for Christ's sake OP, at least have some conversations with your brothers before cutting off all contact and declaring them lost causes to the alt right hive mind. Plenty of people listen to Joe Rogan because he talks about Aliens and MMA.

 

[Huncho_Houdini]

You'd be surprised at how prevalent Joe Rogan is even among non-right wing circles.

 

[JasonV]

Plenty of people listen to Joe Rogan because he talks about Aliens and MMA.

Click to shrink...

And that's how they become radicalised.

Rogan is just a meat head getting high and talking about aliens & MMA.

Until he brings on Jordan Peterson and the Proud Boys.

 

[Br3wnor]

And that's how they become radicalised.

Rogan is just a meat head getting high and talking about aliens & MMA.

Until he brings on Jordan Peterson and the Proud Boys.

Click to shrink...

So in your view every person who listens to Joe Rogan is radicalized alt right? This is a serious position you're taking? He has the most popular podcasts on planet earth, literally millions of weekly listeners

OP gave no more info than his brother mentioning listening to Joe Rogan. He didn't say "so I've been listening to joe Rogan and this Proud Boys guy has a good point!" Like people just jump to way too many conclusions way too fast with certain topics on here

 

[JasonV]

So in your view every person who listens to Joe Rogan is radicalized alt right?

Click to shrink...

No.

I'm saying he provides one of the most prevalent pipelines for radicalization.

Jordan Peterson is a best selling self-help author and he is a frothing at the mouth lunatic christian reactionary.

Rogans millions of listeners are not a surprise at all.

 

[Frodo]

Imagine being annoyed because someone wants to change a school name and then calling other people snowflakes...

 

[Deleted member 44129]

Brother worried about the school name just said its a "bandwagon". Ah, a much loved phrase of the far right that is a convenient way to undermine a "movement".

Also Im a "snowflake", and "woke", favoured phrases to belittle left leaning politically aware people.

Its impressive and very sad how these opinions, phrases and arguments filter through to the masses.

A work colleague referenced Corbyn at the last election and over the space of a few days he said Corbyn will "take us back to the winter of discontent". Searched the phrase on twitter and it was being pushed via far right twitter accounts. This stuff is inciduous, and its working.

 

[JasonV]

By whom? For most people he's the talkshow host who's at the top of their Spotify podcast recommendations.

Click to shrink...

By anyone with a scintilla for political awareness.

(To be clear: I know he's a right wing idiot, but I don't think it's fair to assume everyone does.)

Click to shrink...

I agree with you there.

 

[Dervius]

That really does suck.

Haven't had too hard a time with my family in general, though many of them are more or less conservative (until challenged on it).

Funnily, I got called a snowflake by my SO's mother the other day. My SO's brother brought up BLM and my MIL essentially said "oh no, let's not bring this up around [SO], she'll debate you for hours. She and [Dervius] are those snowflakes."

She thought 'snowflake' was a nickname of the generation like 'millennial', had no idea it was used as a perjorative and was shocked and apologetic when she found out. Ironically the older brother she was speaking to is also a millennial.

 

[Deleted member 31133]

I get it OP.

Last year my dad admitted he voted Tory in the GE and voted Brexit. I went mental and almost beat the shit out of him right in the middle of a pub.

We now barely speak. I'll never forgive him for being a racist prick.

Unfortunately you can't chose your family.

 

[Deleted member 2533]

I like Rogan, but he's totally AM radio. You're getting a lot of weak thought, pop-sci, and "just asking questions" a lot. Like, he'll be super serious about Coronavirus testing and needing masks and social distancing, but he'll also say tanning will boost your vitamin D which fends off Coronavirus and that it looks like it was made in a lab. Literally, I was listening to one of his recent pods and he said that. He thinks it was man-made in a lab in Wuhan and it escaped containment. He'll have a fringe scientist on that sells books about some kind of health thing, then they'll talk about epidemiology which they won't have any expertise in.

If you want to listen to JRE, you have to be aware enough that he's a jock that does a lot of drugs, and he's informed by shit he reads online, just like the rest of us. So he can be really all over the place on issues, and it's a real easy place to reinforce any alt-right ideas. He loves talking about how Biden and Hillary have cognitive decline. But he's also promoted stuff like universal basic income, health care, he loves Bernie Sanders, etc.

A work colleague referenced Corbyn at the last election and over the space of a few days he said Corbyn will "take us back to the winter of discontent". Searched the phrase on twitter and it was being pushed via far right twitter accounts. This stuff is inciduous, and its working.

Click to shrink...

Weird.

Now is the winter of our discontent
Made glorious summer by this son of York.
And all the clouds that loured upon our house
In the deep bosom of the ocean buried.

Click to shrink...

It's the opening line of Richard III, explained as:

Now all of my family's troubles have come to a glorious end, thanks to my brother, King Edward IV. All the clouds that threatened the York family have vanished and turned to sunshine.

Click to shrink...

So it means, "Now, the winter of our discontent has been made glorious summer... by Corbyn"???

 

[Travo]

Cut them off. Don't have any contact with them. If they still refuse to reconsider their hateful views, permanently sever times with them. Family does not trump the freedom of other people.

Click to shrink...

This is me. My mother-in-law rode this crazy train in 2016 and hasn't looked back. We have cut her out for years (for various reasons), but started communicating via text recently. She's went all in on conspiracy theory bullshit about masks and hydroxychloriquine. My wife just shut her down again yesterday.

 

[Ravensmash]

I like Rogan, but he's totally AM radio. You're getting a lot of weak thought, pop-sci, and "just asking questions" a lot. Like, he'll be super serious about Coronavirus testing and needing masks and social distancing, but he'll also say tanning will boost your vitamin D which fends off Coronavirus and that it looks like it was made in a lab. Literally, I was listening to one of his recent pods and he said that. He thinks it was man-made in a lab in Wuhan and it escaped containment. He'll have a fringe scientist on that sells books about some kind of health thing, then they'll talk about epidemiology which they won't have any expertise in.

If you want to listen to JRE, you have to be aware enough that he's a jock that does a lot of drugs, and he's informed by shit he reads online, just like the rest of us. So he can be really all over the place on issues, and it's a real easy place to reinforce any alt-right ideas. He loves talking about how Biden and Hillary have cognitive decline. But he's also promoted stuff like universal basic income, health care, he loves Bernie Sanders, etc.



Weird.



It's the opening line of Richard III, explained as:



So it means, "Now, the winter of our discontent has been made glorious summer... by Corbyn"???

Click to shrink...

In a UK context, I'd assume it's referring to the late 70s when a Labour government were in power:

Winter of Discontent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Had this with a friend of mine a few years back, I was talking about how Tommy Robinson should probably be locked up for inciting racial hatred after insisting that every Muslim in the UK needs to be treated like an enemy combatant, to which my friend replied "Well, they probably should." and then a huge argument ensued, capped off by him storming out yelling "fucking leftists, no tolerance for ideas outside your little bubble". He's now fully on board with Soros conspiracies, is obsessed with the concept of white genocide, claims caucasians actually evolved in Russia and that BLM is a Russian plot to destabilise the western world, etc.

Came out of nowhere, as well. I guess we'd never really talked about politics much in the past few years (I've known him since we were kids), but just assumed upon a standard level of compassion, empathy and basic human decency that seemingly isn't there any more.

Click to shrink...

Interested in this. Do they claim they evolved separately in Russia as in whites are a separate species? Or that some black Africans found themselves in Russia and became white then all white people came from there?

Neither are true but it would be interesting to see how fucking stupid these people are.

 

[Deleted member 2533]

In a UK context, I'd assume it's referring to the late 70s when a Labour government were in power:

Winter of Discontent - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Click to shrink...

Ah, makes more sense.

 

[Dervius]

I went mental and almost beat the shit out of him right in the middle of a pub.

Click to shrink...

This seems like an extreme reaction unless there's more to that story.

 

[toy_brain]

Hey OP, you familiar with Beau Of The Fifth Column?
Its a Youtube channel. Real name of the guy is Justin King, Beau is his nickname. He's a Journalist in Florida with a background as a military contractor.
As your brothers seem to be getting a lot of their politics from the US, it might be worth a watch as it might provide you with some counter-arguments.
The guy is a massive lefty, by the way.

I'm not suggesting you just shove his videos in front of their face and say "Here, watch this now!". That'll do fuck all good. But maybe spend a bit of time sifting through his channel, see how he frames his points of view and the manner in which he delivers his arguments. He's probably the best lefty at talking in a way that might get through to some right-wingers.
Its US-centric, so most of it doesn't directly apply to the UK, but the broad strokes on military play-books and sociological change do.
Right-wing people love the military, so.......

(Really I was just looking for an excuse to mention his channel, as I don't see much talk of it in Era.)

 

[Deleted member 44129]

As your brothers seem to be getting a lot of their politics from the US, it might be worth a watch as it might provide you with some counter-arguments.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for the recomendation, I'll check out the YT you mention. As for the "politics from the US", I think that is the case in the UK and across the world. The UK is a direct echo of the US. We've had BLM, we've had arguments over removing statues and changing the names of buildings and schools named after history's bad guys. We've got our own version of Trump who pretty much copies the orange turd. And the right wing arguments are the exact ones we get from the US right wing.

 

[Statik]

This seems like an extreme reaction unless there's more to that story.

Click to shrink...

It's extreme to respond with violence to your own father voting for the Tories? Really??? If my father voted fascists, I'd be just as upset.

 

[Midgarian]

Then my other brother says "I was listening to Joe Rogan the other day and......".

Click to shrink...

Speaking the same language as Right Wing America has finally caught up to us for fuck sake. It was an inevitably with internet ubiquity.

 

[Ravensmash]

Thanks for the recomendation, I'll check out the YT you mention. As for the "politics from the US", I think that is the case in the UK and across the world. The UK is a direct echo of the US. We've had BLM, we've had arguments over removing statues and changing the names of buildings and schools named after history's bad guys. We've got our own version of Trump who pretty much copies the orange turd. And the right wing arguments are the exact ones we get from the US right wing.

Click to shrink...

If your brothers are drawn by Shapiro 'destroying' people then maybe share some clips of someone like James O'Brien doing similar from a more centre/left leaning perspective?

It's extreme to respond with violence to your own father voting for the Tories? Really??? If my father voted fascists, I'd be just as upset.

Click to shrink...

Yes?

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Deleted member 31133]

This seems like an extreme reaction unless there's more to that story.

Click to shrink...

There is no more to the story. He admitted he voted for Brexit and the Tory party. That makes him a racist, xenophobic bigot. It's even more hurtful considering my wife is Polish.

I didn't smack him in the face, but I really had to hold back. How could this man who told me he was a Labour voter go and vote Tory and fucking Brexit? Fuck that scum bag. Our relationship is over as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DryCreek]

.