crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
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Oct 25, 2017
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Gatorland
Aside from him disliking the new designs, Arlo isn't exactly saying anything controversial here (and even gives credit to the people who do like it) but of course you have people in this thread rushing to defend GF who probably didn't even watch the video.

It's the same as the Girlfriend Reviews thread where people intentionally tried to derail it to talk about how it "endorsed toxicity" and randomly started bringing Pewdiepie into it.

Like seriously, what does a page long debate of whether Arlo is a "Gamecube fanboy" have anything to do with this video? lol
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,611
"Ain't afraid of telling it like it is" has to be up there as one of the worst defenses about anything honestly. Half of the time it's just a roundabout way of saying "they're saying things I agree with".
Not really. Tons of people on yt will just stay more neutral even if they are more negative on it.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
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Oct 25, 2017
86,264
Houston, TX
Besides Arlo's dislike of the new designs, I'd say he hit the nail on the head (right down to describing the games as rushed).
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
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Jan 17, 2018
3,902
Game sounds like genuine trash, he's confirmed every suspicion I had and then some. Glad I didn't buy it.

i don't know who this bloke is, but subscribed to anyone willing to deliver hard truths about games with overly sensitive, defensive fanbases. Lord knows mainstream outlets wouldn't dare.
 

sultrines

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
272
This thread is a fucking dumpster fire

People get really hostile whenever pokemon is being criticized
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
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Oct 27, 2017
35,527
It's weird because some stuff doesn't get like when criticized. Like when mario games are, you don't see vitrol like this.
To my knowledge, no Mario game's release followed a months-long harassment campaign against the devs that participants tried to paint as a noble cause. This year left Pokemon fans with a short fuse against negativity, and it gets overblown at times, but it's not exactly unjustified, either.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,611
To my knowledge, no Mario game's release followed a months-long harassment campaign against the devs that participants tried to paint as a noble cause. This year left Pokemon fans with a short fuse against negativity, and it gets overblown at times, but it's not exactly unjustified, either.
The amount of actual harassment to devs is tiny in comparison to just people criticizing the games though. The huge majority didn't personally attack anyone.
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,185
To my knowledge, no Mario game's release followed a months-long harassment campaign against the devs that participants tried to paint as a noble cause. This year left Pokemon fans with a short fuse against negativity, and it gets overblown at times, but it's not exactly unjustified, either.

So any criticism is wrong now because people were harassed? That has literally nothing to do with this thread.
 

Hailinel

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Oct 27, 2017
35,527
So any criticism is wrong now because people were harassed? That has literally nothing to do with this thread.
That's not what I said.

Criticism should always be welcome. Poorly argued criticism should be called out. Overlong videos of wall-to-wall negative criticism? Probably not the best thing for a Pokemon fan still smarting from putting up with months of insane vitriol to sit through.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,611
That's not what I said.

Criticism should always be welcome. Poorly argued criticism should be called out. Overlong videos of wall-to-wall negative criticism? Probably not the best thing for a Pokemon fan still smarting from putting up with months of insane vitriol to sit through.
I mean mass effect fans had to sit through months of vitrol with ME:A, same with MvC fans for MvCi, yet there wasn't a hige defense force for those.
 

Hailinel

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Oct 27, 2017
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I mean mass effect fans had to sit through months of vitrol with ME:A, same with MvC fans for MvCi, yet there wasn't a hige defense force for those.
Generally speaking, neither of those games have a fanbase nearly as large as Pokemon, and the critical reception to SwSh wasn't in any way nearly as negative as either of those other games.
 

udivision

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,053
This thread is a fucking dumpster fire

People get really hostile whenever pokemon is being criticized
There are plenty of studios and franchises that people will dump on without a second thought.

In the recent years especially, you'll see these big, hyped up games that launch with poor performance, always some janky online stuff, sometimes subpar graphics/presentation and typically the sense that "yeah this should've spent more time in the oven." And for a few of those games they were yearly franchises like ACreed.

Then suddenly (ok not really) people realized this applied to Pokemon and the internet blew up.
 

Xita

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
9,185
That's not what I said.

Criticism should always be welcome. Poorly argued criticism should be called out. Overlong videos of wall-to-wall negative criticism? Probably not the best thing for a Pokemon fan still smarting from putting up with months of insane vitriol to sit through.

So because he wasn't positive enough, despite being very thorough with his critique, not shitting on the fandom and also giving positive points, it's wrong? Why should he curtail his video to comfort sensitive fans?
 

Chumunga64

Member
Jun 22, 2018
14,726
I wish sword and shield be made by Ubisoft or EA so people could criticize it without being dogged upon here
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,848
I watched the video and pretty much 100% agree with Arlo on this one. Sword was a huge disappointment to me. Pokemon badly needs a Breath of the Wild type reinvention. Hopefully Gamefreak will get the time to do that in the next Pokemon generation.
 

Guaraná

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,090
brazil, unfortunately
The thing I find weird about Arlo's channel is that, although it is Nintendo focused, it kind of feels like he let 2019 pass him by despite it being so dense in games and content. Short videos on FE, Astral Chain, nothing on DQ, no new trend analysis, that kind of things. Like, instead of making yet another NSO video or Paper Mario or Retro, why not do something about the fact that Tanabe and Next Level transformed what was a glorified GameCube tech demo into one of Nintendo's biggest IP in only two games? Surely there's a lot to say here. Or how Three Houses reinvigorated the fanbase, or how the collab with Koei Techmo worked so well? I don't know there was plenty of things to talk about and analyze and it seems like he missed it all and talked about old stuff he always talk about instead.

Anyway I completely agree with his review though, apart from the Pokmon designs, which I love. Won't move the needle much but I share a lot of his frustrations there.
Thank you for writing exactly what I noticed about his videos this year.
 

Hailinel

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Oct 27, 2017
35,527
So because he wasn't positive enough, despite being very thorough with his critique, not shitting on the fandom and also giving positive points, it's wrong? Why should he curtail his video to comfort sensitive fans?
What I am saying is that the audience this video should in theory target is probably not in the mood for it. Arlo doesn't need to edit his video to accommodate people that want all sunshine and rainbows, but there are people out there that are just tired of YouTubers using the games as pinatas as they've been doing since July. They see a negative Pokemon thumbnail, and they click the button to hide it and move on because they just don't want to bother regardless of the content.

I think ME:A actually had a higher user mc score than sw/sh.
It does, but Metacritic user scores have a long history of getting bombed, and user scores in general aren't representative of the larger audience anyway because they only represent the scores of the users that actually care enough to leave a rating on Metacritic. But as it stands, in terms of the professional critical averages, Pokemon Sword is at 80 and Andromeda is at 71.

Also, why are you even arguing Metacritic user scores?
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,761
Blaming the game being rushed for some of those issues is unfair though. A lot of it is down to tradition and nostalgia. I hate things like "Pokémon wants to learn a new move, but they already know 4 moves" because the UI is clunky and it's slow. But they've clearly kept it purposefully. The issues many have with Pokémon (and I appreciate many more people don't find these issues, but still) are not just due to the rushed release schedule, but also the culture of GameFreak.

A Pokemon only having four moves is a balance thing, like having a party of six. I don't think it's about tradition or nostalgia.
 

Charizard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,931
I love Sword and Shield but that is in spite of all its jank, not because of it.

Personally I enjoy just grinding raids in the wild area since 99% of them are easy for me to solo, including 5*s, but I acknowledge that that is not for everyone and that there is little other postgame content.

And in general the game is lacking a lot of graphical polish. It also has issues like only being balanced for a point A to point B playthrough; if you explore at all you can easily overlevel.

I will honestly probably spend a lot more time playing Temtem than Pokemon once it comes out in EA (Been enjoying the Alpha) and my username is motherfucking Charizard.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
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Nov 8, 2017
7,628
And this is why I've unsubbed from him. It's fine being critical but he is just nitpicking to make as negative a video as he can.

He's definitely taken a different approach in the last 12-18 months and it's not been for the better imo.

I wish sword and shield be made by Ubisoft or EA so people could criticize it without being dogged upon here

The game has been heavily criticized by a vocal minority on here since it was announced. I'm not sure what you are talking about.
 
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Absent Breeze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
488
I wish sword and shield be made by Ubisoft or EA so people could criticize it without being dogged upon here
I feel like it's pretty telling that you'll see a large amount of users rotating through these threads with criticisms about the series/games, but the same small subset of users that will show up and try to invalidate any criticism leveled at the series/game.

I also don't see how his video is "nitpicking " when you not only have people here but people in the past bringing up the exact same points or "100%" agreeing with him. People were bringing up issues the same issues Arlo has with the series before LGPE were even released.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
60,611
How can arlo be nitpicking, but at the same time bringing up points that everyone else has? Seems contradicting.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
And this is why I've unsubbed from him. It's fine being critical but he is just nitpicking to make as negative a video as he can.

He's definitely taken a different approach in the last 12-18 months and it's not been for the better imo.

This is a clown take and you know it. What exactly is he nitpicking here? Sounds like you disagree with him and are painting all of his points as being negative for the sake of being negative.
 

Moist_Owlet

Banned
Dec 26, 2017
4,148
Can we end the corporate defense force on this board next year? Gamefreak was bad but we had posters defending boeing for fuck sake.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,095
To my knowledge, no Mario game's release followed a months-long harassment campaign against the devs that participants tried to paint as a noble cause. This year left Pokemon fans with a short fuse against negativity, and it gets overblown at times, but it's not exactly unjustified, either.

Ah yes, the months-long harassment "campaign" against GameFreak devs! As in, a tiny fraction of assholes that largely gained visibility from those attempting to handwave any legit criticism by equalizing the latter with said harassment., which became a staple strategy from ERA's Pokestans. Which was and is frankly disgusting.

The vast, vast majority of people who had a problem specifically disliked any such harassment, even on reddit. But because there are some fucked up twitter users who nobody but twitter staff can do much about, why not make that the focus of the conversation!
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
And this is why I've unsubbed from him. It's fine being critical but he is just nitpicking to make as negative a video as he can.

He's definitely taken a different approach in the last 12-18 months and it's not been for the better imo.



The game has been heavily criticized by a vocal minority on here since it was announced. I'm not sure what you are talking about.
Its more than a vocal minority that criticized the Pokemon games even if they sell they deserve all the criticism they got and you are one of the ones attacking on anyone who doesn't like the game and blindly defending gamefreak.

Ah yes, the months-long harassment "campaign" against GameFreak devs! As in, a tiny fraction of assholes that largely gained visibility from those attempting to handwave any legit criticism by equalizing the latter with said harassment., which became a staple strategy from ERA's Pokestans. Which was and is frankly disgusting.



The vast, vast majority of people who had a problem specifically disliked any such harassment, even on reddit. But because there are some fucked up twitter users who nobody but twitter staff can do much about, why not make that the focus of the conversation!
Its just a way certain people here try to discredit anyone not positive on pokemon.
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
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Nov 8, 2017
7,628
I forgot what thread it was, but around release tons of people said it the first two pages and all got warnings.

Ah yes I remember now, wasn't that linked to #fuckgamefreak where people were spreading lies on twitter and harassing the devs? Isn't pages of the same couple of words just spam and low effort posting?

I'm sure if you wanted to say "fuck gamefreak" and gave good reasons why you are saying it then you wouldn't get a warning, just like with any other company.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Ah yes, the months-long harassment "campaign" against GameFreak devs! As in, a tiny fraction of assholes that largely gained visibility from those attempting to handwave any legit criticism by equalizing the latter with said harassment., which became a staple strategy from ERA's Pokestans. Which was and is frankly disgusting.

The vast, vast majority of people who had a problem specifically disliked any such harassment, even on reddit. But because there are some fucked up twitter users who nobody but twitter staff can do much about, why not make that the focus of the conversation!
Don't dismiss that it happened.
 

Mekanos

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 17, 2018
44,761
Can we end the corporate defense force on this board next year? Gamefreak was bad but we had posters defending boeing for fuck sake.

It's a part of forum culture at this point.

Ah yes, the months-long harassment "campaign" against GameFreak devs! As in, a tiny fraction of assholes that largely gained visibility from those attempting to handwave any legit criticism by equalizing the latter with said harassment., which became a staple strategy from ERA's Pokestans. Which was and is frankly disgusting.

The vast, vast majority of people who had a problem specifically disliked any such harassment, even on reddit. But because there are some fucked up twitter users who nobody but twitter staff can do much about, why not make that the focus of the conversation!

It's really annoying how often criticisms have to be prefaced with "the harassment is bad." I have seen people who criticize the game be framed as "pro-harassment."

Though a lot of it also seems to come down to "this doesn't bother me so it shouldn't bother you either."
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
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Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Its more than a vocal minority that criticized the Pokemon games even if they sell they deserve all the criticism they got and you are one of the ones attacking on anyone who doesn't like the game and blindly defending gamefreak.

I haven't attacked anyone, I just gave my opinion in a discussion forum and get called a clown. It's expected I guess.