These are trophy definitions. If they are defined as he they are male, she they are female, if they can be both they are both and "it" they are neither/both.
Male only (he): 35
Mario
Donkey Kong
Link
Yoshi
Kirby
Fox
Luigi
Captain Falcon
Ness
Bowser
Marth
Mr. Game and Watch
Ganondorf
Falco
Wario
Meta Knight
Pit
Olimar
Diddy Kong
King Dedede
Ike
R.O.B
Toon Link
Sonic
Dr. Mario
Dark Pit
Little Mac
Duck Hunt Duo
Shulk
Pac-Man
Mega Man
Lucas
Roy
Ryu
Cloud
Female only (she): 9
Samus
Peach
Zelda
Sheik
Zero Suit Samus
Lucina
Rosalina & Luma
Palutena
Bayonetta
Can be both: 8
Wii Fit Trainer
Villager
Robin
Bowser Jr.
Corrin
Mii Brawler
Mii Sword Fighter
Mii Gunner
Neither/Both: (it) 6
Pikachu
Lucario
Charizard
Jigglypuff
Greninja
Mewtwo
The number of characters that are strictly female compared to those that are strictly female/male is 9/44 or 20.45%.
The number of characters that can be female (female only + can be both) compared to those that can be male (male only + can be both) is 17/43 or 39.53%. Personally I think this is the fairest comparison as we are talking about female representation, and this compares all characters that are or can be female versus all characters that are or can be male. (Arguing that the Pokemon except Mewtwo (genderless) and maybe Pikachu (the tail) can also be female will put this figure at almost 50%. Smash's roster represents females by almost half. This is a much better argument than not counting Miis as females and not counting non-default icons but I've left Pokemon out of this section for arguments sake)
Finally, comparing all characters that are/can be female (female only+can be both) with all characters in the game (male+ can be both+neither/both) gives 17/58 or 29.31%. This is probably the number you want for the OP, and is a decent number considering it's 29.31% when we divide into three categories.
Even if we do go by icon representation, and for arguments sake I'll count all Pokemon as male except Jigglypuff (most of us say he to them all and she to Jigglypuff) that's still 12/58 which is 20.69%. (The 9 female only + Jigglypuff, Mii Gunner, Wii Fit Trainer).
The thing with the likes of Female Villager, Robin, & Corrin is that, while the options do exist, they aren't the default (hence why I counted Wii Fit Trainer, since she's a woman by default). At least with the Mii Gunner, the default representation for that Mii is a woman with both the render & the Amiibo, so I'm willing to throw Nintendo/Bamco/Sakurai a bone there. Likewise, whenever we get the Inklings in Smash (be it Smash 4 Deluxe or Smash 5), I'll count the Inklings in the percentage if the default version is the Inkling Girl.I was going to write up something similar, to be honest, I do think that the 39-40% is representative of the reality of the game. The number that ignores characters that can be both male or female, moves away from the actual problem to strengthen a narrative IMO. If I am a 10 year old girl who is playing a female Villager or a female mii, or a female Corrin, I am going to feel like I can relate to the character as a female. We could be talking about something entirely different, but if we are talking about representing a gender in a game, then these characters should apply, simply because I can choose their gender, and honestly, this might be the characters that are best representing trans-gender people as well, which I feel is also important in our culture too.
I'm less sensitive to these issues, as I'm a white cis male, but I try to understand other people and their perspectives, so I might get this all wrong, however, I do think Smash's dual gender characters should count as Female, you could count them as Male too and come up with a much bigger number for males than females, but again, I think this misses the point of the problem, if I want to play a female character, out of the 58 characters available, how many let me be female? ~40% is a pretty good number, especially when we are counting Duck Hunt Duo and R.O.B. as males, that is fairly ambiguous on the selection screen IMO.
I feel like, in games with a significant number of mechanical or otherwise non-sexed/gendered characters the percentages are misleading. Folks see 40% female for ARMS, for example, and think it means 60% male. When really it's 40% Female | 40% Male | 20% N/A. Making ARMS' female to male ratio 1:1.Sorry about the bump, but I've added Dr. Coyle to the ARMS section, & adjusted the percentage accordingly. ARMS is now tied with Guilty Gear Xrd: REV 2 at 40% female fighters relative to the entirety of their respective rosters.
I guess that's something I can look into going forward. But at the same time, comparing the female fighters to the entirety of the roster still brings the percentage to 40%, which was the original intention of this thread.I feel like, in games with a significant number of mechanical or otherwise non-sexed/gendered characters the percentages are misleading. Folks see 40% female for ARMS, for example, and think it means 60% male. When really it's 40% Female | 40% Male | 20% N/A. Making ARMS' female to male ratio 1:1.
Oh I absolutely get where you're coming from. And for most games it won't really make a difference. It's just that, since the topic is about representation, I figure that games that actually do have their retinue of fighting women match their men should be pointed out.I guess that's something I can look into going forward. But at the same time, comparing the female fighters to the entirety of the roster still brings the percentage to 40%, which was the original intention of this thread.
Assuming you mean default designs, I feel like some characters may be contested in terms of how sexualized they are if I were to do a tally of each individual female fighter in regards to how they look by default.Pretty decent numbers of representation IMO, especially when "fighting" sports in real life predominantly interest men and have bigger pools of participants based on pretty foundational concepts tied into testosterone and etc. Though it would also be interesting if one could break down the women who are in these games and what level of sexualization is used in their designs.
I'll put a notation for that in the OP.Oh I absolutely get where you're coming from. And for most games it won't really make a difference. It's just that, since the topic is about representation, I figure that games that actually do have their retinue of fighting women match their men should be pointed out.
SFV actually has a pretty solid percentage of women compared to the entirety of the roster. As for MvCI, the blame for that is likely on Marvel for (supposedly) forcing parity for the female characters on both sides (I.E. Capcom can't have more ladies than Marvel, & vice versa).
SFV has the highest proportion of female fighters in the series' history.
Capcom is forgiven thenSFV actually has a pretty solid percentage of women compared to the entirety of the roster. As for MvCI, the blame for that is likely on Marvel for (supposedly) forcing parity between the female characters on both sides (Ex: Capcom can't have more ladies than Marvel, & vice versa).
Interesting, I'll have to look into that.SFV has the highest proportion of female fighters in the series' history.
Yeah, & it probably isn't the weirdest rule that Marvel (supposedly) enacted. It was heavily implied that Marvel chose the game's art style (as well as restricting the roster leave out the Fox characters in the base roster as well as S1's DLC characters).
I'll look into it, though it may take a while considering how big MOBA rosters can be if I do choose to tackle the job. I originally did this out of my passion for fighting games as well as my curiosity about the representation of women in relation to their respective rosters. That's not to say that I won't do this for MOBAs, but I'm just providing context as to why I started this.By the way, Neoxon I was wondering if you (or anyone else) would be interested in doing this for MOBAs. I have no idea what representation looks like there and it would be interesting to find out.
That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see the likes of Kefla & Ribrianne as DLC for DBFZ later down the road.Oooh thats interesting to see,
I guess its not surprising to see dragonball at rock bottom. That Arms represetation is nice to see though, guess new IPs have it easy to have a closer split.
SFV has the highest proportion of female fighters in the series' history.
I mean, ~30% isn't a bad percentage at all (especially compared to other fighting games).That makes me kinda sad. SF has given so many iconic women characters to the medium (and pop culture in general), but Capcom still hesitates to let those characters be a larger part of their rosters. With SFV they seem to be intentionally keeping the roster only a third female. We even get exactly two characters who are women for every four characters who are men with each season.
I mean, ~30% isn't a bad percentage at all (especially compared to other fighting games).
I guess you also have to consider the number of guys who are fan favorites.It ain't bad, SF just could be better. Especially since they seem intent on keeping it exactly a third. Like they're scared to go above that ratio.
Because there are so many male returnees. It's the DBZ problem.That makes me kinda sad. SF has given so many iconic women characters to the medium (and pop culture in general), but Capcom still hesitates to let those characters be a larger part of their rosters. With SFV they seem to be intentionally keeping the roster only a third female. We even get exactly two characters who are women for every four characters who are men with each season.
In the case of Dragon Ball, there aren't that many recurring female fighters to begin with beyond 18. Obviously Super's now rectifying that with the Tournament of Power, but that came too late for DBFZ's base roster.Because there are so many male returnees. It's the DBZ problem.
You also forgot Ribrianne. And judging by ASW's justification for 21's creation, it seems like they didn't consider Bulma, Videl, or Chi-Chi as viable options (correct me if I'm mistaken). That said, we already have Hit if we're talking about characters who lack ki attacks.Dragon Ball is a shame, for sure, but hopefully the advances in female fighter representation brought by the Tournament of Power arc are taken advantage of. Kale, Caulifla and Kefla would all be perfect. Videl would be an interesting addition as her lack of ki attacks could let them make a pure physical rushdown character that the game doesn't really have yet - she could even have Chi-Chi as an assist. Bulma in a sweet mech would be awesome. Pan, if they wanted GT characters, would be fun. Beyond that, it's true there's not much else unless you start going for deep cuts like Zangya or Oceanus Shenron.
You also forgot Ribrianne. And judging by ASW's justification for 21's creation, it seems like they didn't consider Bulma, Videl, or Chi-Chi as viable options (correct me if I'm mistaken). That said, we already have Hit if we're talking about characters who lack ki attacks.
From the characters we've seen so far, ASW seems to stick very closely to the source material for the characters' poses & animations. This faithfulness is to a fault in the case of characters like Bulma where you'd have to get creative.Yes, true, Ribrianne would be great, although I did get the impression she was less popular than the Saiyans (some things never change). On your point about Hit, I actually thought Videl/Chi-Chi would be a great opposite number to him. They share the lack of ki attacks, but whilst Hit is heavily about reading the opponent and pulling off various counters, Videl would be hyper rushdown with zero long-range moves, running fast, dodging ki attacks and getting close for brutal combos. Bulma would be even more straightforward - no ki attacks technically, but a mech's guns and lasers would be no different really.
I guess that's something I can look into going forward. But at the same time, comparing the female fighters to the entirety of the roster still brings the percentage to 40%, which was the original intention of this thread.
It's mainly for collecting data. I leave it to you guys to interpret what the data means. I may have my own views (≥ 30% is acceptable), but I don't let that get in the way of the OP. The quote you referenced is mainly referring to the data I was looking for across all these fighting games, not necessarily as a means for commentary about the status of female fighters in fighting games. I would have put a poll if I wanted a more decisive opinion on if it's acceptable or not.But that begs the question of what the point of the thread is and calls into question the basis of its conclusion. If it's simply academic observation that's fine. But if, as seems to be the takeaway, the goal is to point out issues in female representation it comes across as at least partially dishonest.
From the characters we've seen so far, ASW seems to stick very closely to the source material for the characters' poses & animations. This faithfulness is to a fault in the case of characters like Bulma where you'd have to get creative.
Still so disappointed about this. :/Now tell me the percentage of women characters that aren't over-the-top sex objects designed to titillate a primarily male audience.
Assuming you mean default designs, I feel like some characters may be contested in terms of how sexualized they are if I were to do a tally of each individual female fighter in regards to how they look by default.
I'll put a notation for that in the OP.
A Big Band style moveset for her would be fantastic after her Odyssey appearance.
Going by this quote from Game Informer...It's just plain stupid that Videl isn't in DBFZ. Yes, Super ruined her character but she was a badass in Z, put her in! Hoping she's a DLC character.
...I don't think they have any intention of making Videl playable, especially now that we have the U6 female Saiyans & Ribrianne.Game Informer said:Though characters like Bulma, Videl, and Chi-Chi are beloved among fans, Dragon Ball offers few prominent female villains or characters who can mix it up with people as strong as Goku (Android 18 being one of the few exceptions). To help offset this balance, Toriyama, Bandai, Namco, and ArcSys decided to create a new female villain who could compete with the series' strongest fighters.
It's just plain stupid that Videl isn't in DBFZ. Yes, Super ruined her character but she was a badass in Z, put her in! Hoping she's a DLC character.