Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,560
Portland, OR
Nothing about this CPU design makes any sense. Going backwards to 14nm is asking for higher electricity consumption and poor thermals.

They have no choice though since they've only been able to release a few products on 10nm, all laptop/portable oriented. It's either 14nm++++++++++++ or nothing.

I think it's pretty clear that they've hit the limit of where 14nm can go. They need to step up and get their manufacturing issues sorted out, or there's not going to be a whole lot of new performance desktop CPUs coming out from them for a while.
 

Barbarossa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,281
lol I know that chip makers is a lame team sport, but I can't help but love seeing AMD show up with Ryzen chips, close the gap, and eventually surpass Intel. Intel really thought they could just drag themselves forward, eh?
This is the realist team sport, and fuck Intel for their Pentium 4 shit back in the day. Seeing AMD eat their lunch has been cathartic.
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,731
Western Australia
When is Intel going to get the wake up call?

It baffles me that Intel decided it was being too generous with the 10c/20t 10900K and reverted back to an 8c/16t ceiling for mainstream SKUs with the 11900K.

Edit: Oh, I didn't realise AVX-512 loads were so dire for power consumption/temps. Bizarre feature to prioritise for a mainstream SKU at this point in time.
 
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Nov 8, 2017
13,463
Wait, wow. And this shit is still behind amd. What happened to that so called infinite r&d money people claim they had?

They're process limited. The struggles of the Intel 10nm node, its yields and it's performance characteristics are long and storied.

Architectural performance improvements are brought about primarily by spending more transistors on new and refined features. When you increase density, you can increase cache size without increasing the latency of using that cache, for example. This new Rocket Lake CPU is using "Willow Cove" uArch which is a sister architecture to Intel's 2017 Icelake processors ("Sunny Cove"), but it can't be an exact 1:1 port because Icelake and it's Sunny Cove uArch was designed for a denser node. So there are some compromises being made to fit into 14nm.

Since Icelake paper launched in 2017 and fully launched in 2018 for laptops, Intel has not been resting idly, and has almost finished preparing "Golden Cove" as it's latest new thing. Rocket Lake therefore represents a brief stopover until the end of this year, when the desktop chip will finally be released using 10nm intel foundries.

If you think it's crazy that Intel could ever briefly be overtaken in performance terms, keep in mind how crazy it actually is that it took until 2020 before AMD exceeded the gaming performance of Intel's 2015 architecture running on a refined version of Intel's 2015 process technology. Making progress in CPUs is difficult and slow.

It baffles me that Intel decided it was being too generous with the 10c/20t 10900K and reverted back to an 8c/16t ceiling with the 11900K.

The cores are larger and hotter now, so a hypothetical 10 core of this would be even more power hungry, even more hot and even more expensive to produce than the 10900k and 11900k.
 
I'm also walking distance to a microcenter, within driving distance of 4. I have only seen stock a few times. The 5950x I ended up buying was on FB marketplace for a very small markup over retail

I would invite you to check stock of 5900x/5950x on a few random microcenters and then come back and tell me they're literally always there
They were there for me literally every time I go. In fact last two times I was there m. People only seemed to care about the 5600x for whatever reason
 

GrrImAFridge

ONE THOUSAND DOLLARYDOOS
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,731
Western Australia
The cores are larger and hotter now, so a hypothetical 10 core of this would be even more power hungry, even more hot and even more expensive to produce than the 10900k and 11900k.

Yeah, I didn't realise until after posting that running AVX-512 instructions results in some truly insane figures, but I get the impression there'd be room for a 10c/20t SKU if Intel hadn't insisted on supporting AVX-512. It seems like a rather pointless feature for a mainstream SKU at this juncture, anyway.
 
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FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,031
Tokyo
More than 3 years past since I bought my 8700K, every new CPU review reminds me that it's THE single best piece of tech I've ever bought. Legendary 2500K was my previous favorite CPU but that was more of a budget champion. 8700K still keeps me at the top of the game which is a rare thing as far as PC tech goes.

Same. I see no reason to upgrade from my 8700k as of yet. Maybe in two years?
 

metallik

Member
Jul 10, 2019
18
More than 3 years past since I bought my 8700K, every new CPU review reminds me that it's THE single best piece of tech I've ever bought. Legendary 2500K was my previous favorite CPU but that was more of a budget champion. 8700K still keeps me at the top of the game which is a rare thing as far as PC tech goes.
I'm still rockin a 4790K and it works fine for 144hz 1080p gaming paired with a 2070super. Amazing longevity from this CPU. Only thing I remember that I ran nearly as long was the old celeron 300a overclocked to 450, that was good for a number of years.
 

OldBenKenobi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,707
I am still quite happy with the performance of my 9700k i bought in early 2019 but definitely going AMD for my next Build.
 
Apr 4, 2018
4,637
Vancouver, BC
Dang, Intel is getting dunked on in these benchmarks.

There are certainly a few wins for the 11700K, and it's possible Anandtech just lost the silicon lottery with thier chip, but it looks like the 11700K is basically a rebranded 10700K and nothing more.

A great performing chip that runs embarrasingly hot compared to the competition, loses out to the competition in the large majority of ways, and regularly loses in performance by big margins.

I certainly wouldn't reccomend the chip if it's more expensive than the 10700K or if the 5800X is in stock. If it's all that's available and a decent price though, it still seems like a very good CPU.
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
regarding the results disappointing, but not terrible at all, given the "early access" nature of it, it's not running with final bioses and such,
also anandtech is very good a writing articles and testing in general, but their gaming tests are not very good.

the crazy power draw with AVX512 might not be the case also with a final bios and without "OC-turbo" modes enabled


Kind of weird that they'd risk their relationship with Intel for this.

they said they contacted intel and they got a "no comments" response, so I guess they feel safe enough since the CPU is available lots of data on the performance will leak anyway, so it might be better to have a balanced professional review out for Intel!?

who knows...
 
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brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,034
Anyone looking to get a deal on a gaming CPU needs to just jump on Intel 10th gen while they're on fire sale. That's not going to last forever.
 

devSin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,205
they said they contacted intel and they got a "no comments" response, so I guess they feel safe enough since the CPU is available lots of data on the performance will leak anyway, so it might be better to have a balanced professional review out for Intel!?
They're not going to tell you that you're going to lose insider access.

It'll just happen.

Though I think Anandtech has been running AMD-sponsored stuff for years now (since Anand left at least), so maybe it doesn't even matter to them, especially if Intel keeps dropping the ball.
 

kami_sama

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,133
I was gonna wait either way for alder lake to make a final decision, but this doesn't inspire confidence in intel at all.
Let's hope alder lake is competitive, amd can't be at the top for too much longer. (who would have thought it 5 years ago)
 

Lebon30

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,330
Canada
There is 0 reason to get this CPU. Like. None. It actually regresses versus the 10700K most of the time which is pretty sad. Even in gaming. The 5800X is by far the better performance. And this thing runs HOT AF! When your CPU hits 104°C (although in a very specific usage), it's not a good sign. The "IPC" improvement Intel promised is more in........... math calculations? If you need to crunch Pi decimals, I guess this CPU is for you? Or run AVX-512 heavy applications, I guess?

If you need or absolutely want an Intel CPU, do yourself a favor: get the 10700K instead. You'll be able to get it at a bargain and has better performance.

Intel, how does it feel to be in AMD's 10-years-ago-shoes? Because this is pretty much a repeat.

I'm glad to be on team RED this time around with my secured 5900X!
 

Shifty Capone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
620
Los Angeles
I was gonna wait either way for alder lake to make a final decision, but this doesn't inspire confidence in intel at all.
Let's hope alder lake is competitive, amd can't be at the top for too much longer. (who would have thought it 5 years ago)

Isn't this still 14nm++++++ or is it 10nm+++

I am in the same boat as you. Ill be waiting for Alder Lake. Hopefully 7nm and beats AMD. If not AMD it is!
 

RankFTW

Member
Oct 28, 2017
723
Scotland
Have no intention of upgrading my 9900k at 5.1 all cores for a long time. This doesn't even seem like an upgrade and I've had my chip for 2.5 years. Gone are the days of needing to stay on top of technology to get decent fps in games.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,034
Yep, this. 10700K and 10850K aren't bad at all if you can get them on a good sale.

You can pick up a 10850K for £350 at the largest PC retailer in the UK vs. 5800x for £430. That's 2 more cores, very similar per core performance in games and £80 less.

The 10600KF is available for £180 and is within 10% of a 5600x in games of you're using a 3080/3090 at 1080p. With any other GPU/resolution combination they're functionally the same, yet the 5600x is nigh on double the price at ~£350. I've no idea how anyone can see value in the AMD chip. It's a £250 processor being sold for a £100 markup and no one seems to care. What's worse is that it's still regularly recommended in build guides as a good value option and I really can't understand why. It's one of the most overpriced CPUs on the market. It's a 6 core processor for 10 core money.
 

BAW

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,954
In gaming it's actually worse than before!!! OMG. This is embarrassing.
 

Simuly

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 8, 2019
1,281
This has to be the worst CPU line-up Intel has launched in a long time. New architecture and claims of huge IPC gain, and releasing 6 months after Ryzen 5000 but still slower and a lot more inefficient?! Really Intel?
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,034
Have no intention of upgrading my 9900k at 5.1 all cores for a long time. This doesn't even seem like an upgrade and I've had my chip for 2.5 years. Gone are the days of needing to stay on top of technology to get decent fps in games.

There's no processor on the market that will offer you a tangible upgrade in games and there's unlikely to be for a long time.

There is 0 reason to get this CPU. Like. None. It actually regresses versus the 10700K most of the time which is pretty sad. Even in gaming. The 5800X is by far the better performance. And this thing runs HOT AF! When your CPU hits 104°C (although in a very specific usage), it's not a good sign. The "IPC" improvement Intel promised is more in........... math calculations? If you need to crunch Pi decimals, I guess this CPU is for you? Or run AVX-512 heavy applications, I guess?

If you need or absolutely want an Intel CPU, do yourself a favor: get the 10700K instead. You'll be able to get it at a bargain and has better performance.

Intel, how does it feel to be in AMD's 10-years-ago-shoes? Because this is pretty much a repeat.

I'm glad to be on team RED this time around with my secured 5900X!

I mean "team red" are currently price gouging just as bad as Intel did when they were dominant in the high end consumer CPU space, arguably moreso.

Intel floundering again isn't good for anyone, and definitely not something we should be cheering. AMD have proven that they will be just as shitty as Intel when they think they can get away with it.

With AMD severely constrained by TSMC capacity, having good offerings from Intel is really healthy for the PC gaming market. Otherwise, we end up in the same situation as we have in the GPU space and nobody wants that.
 
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DjRalford

Member
Dec 14, 2017
1,529
I mean Intel claimed it has higher IPC but still is behind AMD?
Also the 11900K has the same core count (8C/16T) with slightly higher clockspeeds which means it wont be competition to AMD either.

Wonder when AMD will release their PCIe Gen5 and DDR5 CPUs and chips. Intel will most likely do it at the end of the year.
If AMD follows I will definitly go with AMD next time. The only negative thing I heard is that conpared to Intel AMD still hasnt the most reliable software and drivers.

All I'm waiting for is AM5, my 4790k is still running like a charm but I want that new platform upgrade.
 

Zojirushi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,369
Maybe it's because I don't follow CPUs as closely ever since I bought my 8700k but it sure feels like Intel has been pumping out another "Gen" every other month or so lol.
 

Kinan

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
648
Don´t recall a new CPU review where word "regression" would be used so much. Surprised that Intel didn't downclock more for AVX-512 instructions, that power draw is immense.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,034
In gaming it's actually worse than before!!! OMG. This is embarrassing.

On the face of it, this really does seem like a disaster.

In productivity workloads, generally core count is king, so a small IPC increase isn't going to achieve anything if it comes at the regression of core count.

In gaming IPC really does matter but not if it comes at the expense of increased latency (core/cache/memory) then that will very quickly undo any gains in IPC as it appears is happening here.

In the end, this while endeavour comes across as kind of pointless? The one workload they could compete in (gaming) looks to have flatlined and due to the reduced core count they've regressed in productivity workloads where they weren't really competitive to begin with. I don't really understand who would buy one of these over a heavily discounted 10th gen CPU?

At least we got memory overclocking on B series boards out of it.....
 
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Oct 27, 2017
6,914
Upgrade if you need it for your performance target, don't always wait for the next platform, PCIe 5.0 super fast NVMe drives or DDR5. There's always something new around the corner.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,034
Don´t recall a new CPU review where word "regression" would be used so much. Surprised that Intel didn't downclock more for AVX-512 instructions, that power draw is immense.

They're not exactly helping their defence against AVX-512 being a "power virus" with figures like that. The majority of buyers aren't even going to have the cooling to sustain those clockspeeds or will even be using AVX512 workloads in the first place. Why push clocks so high and suffer the bad press?
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,897
The Milky Way
You can pick up a 10850K for £350 at the largest PC retailer in the UK vs. 5800x for £430. That's 2 more cores, very similar per core performance in games and £80 less.

The 10600KF is available for £180 and is within 10% of a 5600x in games of you're using a 3080/3090 at 1080p. With any other GPU/resolution combination they're functionally the same, yet the 5600x is nigh on double the price at ~£350. I've no idea how anyone can see value in the AMD chip. It's a £250 processor being sold for a £100 markup and no one seems to care. What's worse is that it's still regularly recommended in build guides as a good value option and I really can't understand why. It's one of the most overpriced CPUs on the market. It's a 6 core processor for 10 core money.
For pure gaming purposes I agree the KF variants of 10700/10850 are really good value now compared to AMD and would be my recommendation as a result. MSI motherboards etc also have Resizeable BAR support.

There is the PCIe 4.0 argument of course but right now it's mostly the random read speed rather than bandwidth of a SSD that affects gaming performance so I'd suggest a SX8200 Pro over any PCIe 4.0 drive anyway, based on value and its incredibly high gaming performance that's even better than most PCIe 4.0 drives.

At least based on the fact that both Intel and AMD are at the end of their socket gens, that's where I'd be heading with a build right now. Next year is a whole different ball game and we'll have the new architectures, sockets, DDR5. That's when I'd be prepared to spend a little bigger in bleeding edge, especially on AMD as they're likely to support the new arch for multiple years. Next year will be the year I'll likely take the plunge with a major upgrade with new Zen 4 launching.
 

Lebon30

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,330
Canada
I mean "team red" are currently price gouging just as bad as Intel did when they were dominant in the high end consumer CPU space, arguably moreso.
No?
Imagine there's no shortage and the CPUs would be at MSRP. Currently, the 5800X is a 449$ MSRP. This Core i7 11700K looks like to be a 479$ or 499$ CPU. Yes, AMD raised the price by ~50$ on their offering and Intel keeps pumping CPUs that are inferior at a higher price. I dunno man. I don't see the argument of gouging here. Especially when the 5800X and 5600X are available at MSRP and in-stock at Amazon.com. And the gouging is done by the retailers taking advantage of the impatient consumer. I'm looking at you, Newegg.

I understand that, in an ideal world, both would be in a somewhat equal footing and would be battling it out for market share. In this case, it would be stupid for one of them to offer CPUs for an higher price when the other offer a better offering for less. As for now, it's still the case for AMD: the Core i9 10900K (10c/20t) is 500$ MSRP. Want more performance and cores? For 50$ more, there's the 5900X at 550$ MSRP. And the 5950X is a class aside. It's a premium product clearly aimed at those that have the money to burn. Intel does not have an equivalent unless you go to their HEDT / server products in which case, AMD clearly wins the price/performance.

Did the 50$ increase from Zen 2 to Zen 3 sucks? Sure. But, imo, it's worth it. If that increase was 100$, there would be argument to go toward Intel more than AMD. Also inflation says Hi.

Oh, and, before anybody says I'm a fanboy... I had only Intel platforms until this year where I decided to go AMD for the CPU... If Intel still had the upper hand, I would have gone there instead.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,560
Portland, OR
Don´t recall a new CPU review where word "regression" would be used so much. Surprised that Intel didn't downclock more for AVX-512 instructions, that power draw is immense.

Especially since AVX-512 is of fairly limited use if you're mainly using the CPU for gaming. If you're actually doing compute workloads that can take advantage, then one of these CPUs might be your best bet (at least until the Zen microarchitecture gets support), but otherwise it seems like pretty much everything Rocket Lake can do, Zen 3 can do better.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,034
No?
Imagine there's no shortage and the CPUs would be at MSRP. Currently, the 5800X is a 449$ MSRP. This Core i7 11700K looks like to be a 479$ or 499$ CPU. Yes, AMD raised the price by ~50$ on their offering and Intel keeps pumping CPUs that are inferior at a higher price. I dunno man. I don't see the argument of gouging here. Especially when the 5800X and 5600X are available at MSRP and in-stock at Amazon.com. And the gouging is done by the retailers taking advantage of the impatient consumer. I'm looking at you, Newegg.

I understand that, in an ideal world, both would be in a somewhat equal footing and would be battling it out for market share. In this case, it would be stupid for one of them to offer CPUs for an higher price when the other offer a better offering for less. As for now, it's still the case for AMD: the Core i9 10900K (10c/20t) is 500$ MSRP. Want more performance and cores? For 50$ more, there's the 5900X at 550$ MSRP. And the 5950X is a class aside. It's a premium product clearly aimed at those that have the money to burn. Intel does not have an equivalent unless you go to their HEDT / server products in which case, AMD clearly wins the price/performance.

Did the 50$ increase from Zen 2 to Zen 3 sucks? Sure. But, imo, it's worth it. If that increase was 100$, there would be argument to go toward Intel more than AMD. Also inflation says Hi.

Oh, and, before anybody says I'm a fanboy... I had only Intel platforms until this year where I decided to go AMD for the CPU... If Intel still had the upper hand, I would have gone there instead.

It's not a $50 price increase though is it? AMD removed the SKUs that were actually price competitive and sold by far the most volume (3600 and 3700x) and then put a $50 price increase on the SKUs that were always a terrible deal to start with because they offered the same performance at a higher price (3600x and 3800x). So it's a $100 and $120 MSRP increase in practical terms not the $50 price increase they get to talk about based on a technicality.

Both the 3600 and 3700x saw steady price drops as well within a couple of months of launch just like Zen and Zen+ before them but prices have been increasing above MSRP for both the 5600x and 5800x.

This has led to the absurd scenario where the 5600x is double the price of the 10600KF in some markets. Can you honestly justify that price premium for such a small difference in gaming performance?

The launch price of the 10900k isn't relevant when the 10850K is going for $350-$400.