Andromeda Shun's Gender change in the netflix series is so tone deaf

DragonSJG · Dec 31, 2019

So the new Saint Seiya netflix series changed the gender of Andromeda Shun, one of the main characters in the original series

They made him a girl instead of a boy. Now I understand why they did this as they wanted to include more diversity but this decision was not the way to do it. Shun wears pink armor, is kind and gentle and doesn't like to fight and is acknowledged as a true man in series. Back when he was created, he was seen as a way of going against manly stereotypes and basically saying it was ok to be a man and be sensitive/not be macho. With the modern-day discussion of toxic masculinity, it would have been great to have a character like this on screen. Second, the series doesn't even change Shaun's personality, so the only girl of the team is gentle, kind and doesn't like to fight unlike the boys, which kind of reinforces gender stereotypes. So not much thought went into this decision aside from "Shun wears pink, let's make him a girl".

Komo · Dec 31, 2019

Yeah I saw this and was seriously disgusted that they changed a damn good part of this series, just because they probably felt that nobody would like it.

except that's literally why the fuck we are watching it.

mrmoose · Dec 31, 2019

Say you had to change one of the primary five saints into a girl because of reasons, which one would you change? I realize they didn't have to and it stinks (as do the insipid name changes and the inclusion of an army), but considering the armor and the constellation I do think that's the natural choice. As an aside, my kids who have no familiarity with the original until I made them watch it after we watched the Netflix series didn't blink an eye, and when I was a kid reading the untranslated manga I didn't realize Shun was male for a while.

Apparently Misty is still a boy, though. I do wonder why they made the changes they did.

Aaronrules380 · Dec 31, 2019

mrmoose said:
Say you had to change one of the primary five saints into a girl because of reasons, which one would you change? I realize they didn't have to and it stinks (as do the insipid name changes and the inclusion of an army), but considering the armor and the constellation I do think that's the natural choice. As an aside, my kids who have no familiarity with the original until I made them watch it after we watched the Netflix series didn't blink an eye, and when I was a kid reading the untranslated manga I didn't realize Shun was male for a while.

Apparently Misty is still a boy, though. I do wonder why they made the changes they did.

If I had to change one? Ikki 100% because it'd make the dynamic with Shun more interesting. Shun is literally the worst choice if you wanted to change a character's gender BECAUSE he's the most traditionally feminine

Soran · Dec 31, 2019

Yep, I would totally make Ikki the girl too.

WaluigiTime · Dec 31, 2019

I'd just make a new main character.

Gustaf · Dec 31, 2019

i dont think we have seen enough of her to make that call honestly.

🤷‍♂️

rottenpie · Dec 31, 2019

It was a terrible decision -_-

OhSatan · Dec 31, 2019

Yup and the defense of the writer cemented that 100%, hell it seemed that it downed with all the replies it got.

Ikki is the obvious choice and makes the coolest dynamic since she would be the badassest of the badass and save the rest all the time.

Shiryu would be cool making the best bronze a girl and give us a canon lesbian romance since Shunrei is the only canon love interest in the series.

Hyoga would make the Oedipus complex way less creepy so that is a win.

Mewzard · Dec 31, 2019

Honestly, I would have gone with Seiya if I had to pick anyone. You want to really make a difference? Make the shonen protagonist a woman. Then develop Seiya and Athena's relationship, and you have a strong female protagonist in a same-sex relationship as a major part of the series.

Also, if I could bring something from a later part in earlier...

I would bring in the Ophiuchus Gold Saint as the 13th Gold Saint early, and have Ophiuchus Shaina get her big promotion from Silver to Gold. I would be shocked if this doesn't end up happening once we leave the past, as her gaining the Gold Cloth and the healing powers of the Snake-Bearer to save Seiya from his cursed stab wound would make sense.

Of course, you could always add more than one change, so Seiya and Ikki being female, while Shun gets to be the positive role model on nontraditional masculinity could be great.

DragonSJG · Dec 31, 2019

I'd have Shaina be a main character honestly.

Tagyhag · Dec 31, 2019

Yeah it's so dumb, Ikki being a girl would have been great because they're already siblings and would have made for a more interesting story.

Omegamon · Dec 31, 2019

It's so dumb what were they thinking

Neo Hartless · Dec 31, 2019

Girl Ikki would have been the coolest.

DragonSJG · Dec 31, 2019

Mewzard said:
Honestly, I would have gone with Seiya if I had to pick anyone. You want to really make a difference? Make the shonen protagonist a woman. Then develop Seiya and Athena's relationship, and you have a strong female protagonist in a same-sex relationship as a major part of the series.

Also, if I could bring something from a later part in earlier...

I would bring in the Ophiuchus Gold Saint as the 13th Gold Saint early, and have Ophiuchus Shaina get her big promotion from Silver to Gold. I would be shocked if this doesn't end up happening once we leave the past, as her gaining the Gold Cloth and the healing powers of the Snake-Bearer to save Seiya from his cursed stab wound would make sense.

Of course, you could always add more than one change, so Seiya and Ikki being female, while Shun gets to be the positive role model on nontraditional masculinity could be great.

Unlikely Toei would approve a relationship like that for one of their products

mrmoose · Dec 31, 2019

OhSatan said:
Yup and the defense of the writer cemented that 100%, hell it seemed that it downed with all the replies it got.

Ikki is the obvious choice and makes the coolest dynamic since she would be the badassest of the badass and save the rest all the time.

Shiryu would be cool making the best bronze a girl and give us a canon lesbian romance since Shunrei is the only canon love interest in the series.

Hyoga would make the Oedipus complex way less creepy so that is a win.

I guess what I'm saying is from the standpoint of making a new series for a new audience (I assume kids), and you had to make one female, the more feminine one with the pink armor that turns into Princess Andromeda probably makes the most sense. If you want to make a statement, sure, do Ikki or someone else (and that would be awesome), but it seems like this is mainly to redo the story for a new generation or something (otherwise why make all the other changes that are going to just tick off all the diehard fans anyway?)

It's like if you were going to redo Yu Yu Hakusho for a new generation of kids and had to make one female, I'd assume Kurama would be the easiest.

bigosc · Dec 31, 2019

I dipped out from watching that series

Fer · Dec 31, 2019

mrmoose said:
Say you had to change one of the primary five saints into a girl because of reasons, which one would you change? I realize they didn't have to and it stinks (as do the insipid name changes and the inclusion of an army), but considering the armor and the constellation I do think that's the natural choice. As an aside, my kids who have no familiarity with the original until I made them watch it after we watched the Netflix series didn't blink an eye, and when I was a kid reading the untranslated manga I didn't realize Shun was male for a while.

Apparently Misty is still a boy, though. I do wonder why they made the changes they did.

From what I remember, there is no need for that. Women have a very strong role already in the cartoon.

OhSatan · Dec 31, 2019

mrmoose said:
I guess what I'm saying is from the standpoint of making a new series for a new audience (I assume kids), and you had to make one female, the more feminine one with the pink armor that turns into Princess Andromeda probably makes the most sense. If you want to make a statement, sure, do Ikki or someone else (and that would be awesome), but it seems like this is mainly to redo the story for a new generation or something (otherwise why make all the other changes that are going to just tick off all the diehard fans anyway?)

It's like if you were going to redo Yu Yu Hakusho for a new generation of kids and had to make one female, I'd assume Kurama would be the easiest.

That was what the writer said but then all the fans pointed out that what made Shun special was been ereased by the change, the writer had not much understanding of Saint Seiya.

OhSatan · Dec 31, 2019

Fer said:
From what I remember, there is no need for that. Women have a very strong role already in the cartoon.

It seems that way but not really.

mrmoose · Dec 31, 2019

OhSatan said:
That was what the writer said but then all the fans pointed out that what made Shun special was been ereased by the change, the writer had not much understanding of Saint Seiya.

Ah, I didn't know the writer actually commented on it, care to share the link?

P-Bo · Dec 31, 2019

Was watching original Saint Seiya for the first time and got up to the Hades arc--I have to agree, it was absolutely moronic changing Shun's gender.

Especially since--

He's fucking Hades. Watch, they probably don't have the spine to go all the way and change Hades's gender too.

I read earlier this year of Hollywood's attempt at a Saint Seiya movie--they wanted to change Shun's gender then too. I can't understand the obstinacy in changing Shun's gender.

OhSatan · Dec 31, 2019

mrmoose said:
Ah, I didn't know the writer actually commented on it, care to share the link?

Don't have links at hand and I think the tweet was numed but you could check in the OT for the show here.

P-Bo said:
Was watching original Saint Seiya for the first time and got up to the Hades arc--I have to agree, it was absolutely moronic changing Shun's gender.

Especially since--

He's fucking Hades. Watch, they probably don't have the spine to go all the way and change Hades's gender too.

I read earlier this year of Hollywood's attempt at a Saint Seiya movie--they wanted to change Shun's gender then too. I can't understand the obstinacy in changing Shun's gender.

Lol it could be hilarious if they didn't do it but I hope this reboot is dead and buried.

And as some have said the change seems obvious when you glance the IP but if you take a dive you realise it is actually an awful idea.

P-Bo · Dec 31, 2019

OhSatan said:
And as some have said the change seems obvious when you glance the IP but if you take a dive you realise it is actually an awful idea.

Yeah, I guess so--but then why bother attempting an adaptation if you're not going to familiarize yourself with the property completely?

Then again, this is the same industry that has given us Dragonball Evolution, and has only recently gotten a handle on adapting comic books and games (I think).

Mewzard · Dec 31, 2019

DragonSJG said:
Unlikely Toei would approve a relationship like that for one of their products

Would be a shame if they wouldn't. The world really needs to get passed these kinds of hangups already.

As long as she doesn't try and claim she invented the plough, Athena will spare her wrath in that relationship.

DragonSJG · Jan 1, 2020

Mewzard said:
Would be a shame if they wouldn't. The world really needs to get passed these kinds of hangups already.

As long as she doesn't try and claim she invented the plough, Athena will spare her wrath in that relationship.

Japan isn't really LBGT progressive afaik

Andromeda Shun's Gender change in the netflix series is so tone deaf

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