Annihilation |OT| A Shimmer Out Of Space [Spoilers]

Disco · Mar 15, 2018

Lachdanan said:
I really, really, really loved it. Did not want it to end :(

Updated fav sci-fi movies of all time:

1. Aliens
2. Annihilation
3. Interstellar
4. eXistenZ
5. Blade Runner 2049
6. The Thing
7. Gattaca
8. Under the Skin

Dope list, I would have all of those in mine too but also: Blade Runner, Alien, Contact, Terminator 1/2, The Matrix, Moon as well

I enjoyed this one quite a bit, moreso than Ex Machina tbh (although that had far more interesting characters in its trio). There's some real blunders in logic and some of the script felt clunky but I loved the atmosphere presented in here. Reminded me of the Stalker movie fairly often. And that whole lighthouse sequence brought to mind some of the recent Twin Peaks episodes (the white lodge)

I'll post more thoughts on it later, but overall I enjoyed this.

Palette Swap · Mar 15, 2018

Watched this yesterday, I loved the movie overall.

One thing I didn't like was the lighthouse "resolution" in the sense that using a grenade to "solve" the Area X situation felt so Hollywood compared to everything else. Happily enough, this apparent resolution is completely undercut by the next scenes that point at something much deeper.

I've read and loved the first book and didn't mind most of the changes, as the movie does its own thing and does it almost perfectly: it's thematically complete, as the characters, the visuals, and generally the universe all drive the same points about change and life being a transformative experience, from a cellular level to a human lifespan to a generally more evolutionary point of view. That the change is traumatic is a given, it is what it is, and coping with it is generally the real question. That was my take away at least.

Deleted member 28474 · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Fascinating.... for book lovers I'm sure it's disappointing but for me reading these changes I can't help but be glad some were made. I wouldn't have liked an entity, I liked that here whatever it is feels, like I've said before, more of a force than a being.

I love the movie for what it is, but some of the stuff in the books was really hellish and would have been nice to see.

The thing is, the lighthouse stuff in the book is really, really hellish to me in its imagery and descriptions (and is totally different to the movie) and would make for some pretty horrifying viewing I would love to see, but the lighthouse sequence in the movie is so fucking AMAZING I wouldn't want to see it changed either.

For me, I love both and I am glad both are different. Fans of either form will have something to love, I think!

And I am just happy "new weird" fiction is getting more of a platform as time goes on. I wonder whatever happened to the BBC production of The City and The City.

excelsiorlef · Mar 15, 2018

Lapsed said:
I love the movie for what it is, but some of the stuff in the books was really hellish and would have been nice to see.

The thing is, the lighthouse stuff in the book is really, really hellish to me in its imagery and descriptions (and is totally different to the movie) and would make for some pretty horrifying viewing I would love to see, but the lighthouse sequence in the movie is so fucking AMAZING I wouldn't want to see it changed either.

For me, I love both and I am glad both are different. Fans of either form will have something to love, I think!

And I am just happy "new weird" fiction is getting more of a platform as time goes on. I wonder whatever happened to the BBC production of The City and The City.

I'd love to see a version you describe.

To me what was so nightmarish is how much calmness I felt about the idea of the shimmer expanding and just rebooting life on earth. Like I felt bad about some of the individual deaths because I liked those characters but I also was so calm with the idea of everything we know being Annihilated. Which in itself is kind of scary, realizing that that doesn't scare you. I think what enabled that is the total de-personalization of whatever it is that created the shimmer... it wasn't mean, cruel, or even misguided, it wasn't even conscious it just was...

It's interesting reading how many folks tapped into Annihilation themes of personal self destruction... I never considered that.

I was far more absorbed to the different means of annihilation of natural law and scientific law and life as we understand it.

Or as the end presented what I called a Double Annihilation in that the shimmer will seemlessly replace humanity but by becoming us will continue down our path of killing the planet... Annihilation of humanity and then Annihilation of the Earth...

The film's end is a tragedy... The Planet was denied a rebirth and its would be saviour is now going to continue the work of its destroyer.

ZombAid · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
I think what I like about these is that while I disagree entirely I can see why folks would be drawn to interpreting it it that way. It's examining a completely foreign essence (personally I woudn't even call it a being) from a very human construct. As in you're needing a why, a conscious why... so you interpret the being as being an active agent... with conscious goals and desires and motives. Ie: It didn't crash, it landed, and a need to believe it is in itself acting like a scientist of sorts. That you feel drawn to the idea that it must be a conscious being with intentions rather than just say simply a force is fascinating to me, because I was drawn to it from the exact opposite. That this wasn't even necessarily a life form, that it was far me a force of nature but an intergalactic nature, that you can't look at is as having human concepts like: thought, drive, goals, plans, desires... no on its own anyway

I saw it as it could go both ways, I mean we saw very abnormal growths all over with the plans on the walls and stuff so it clearly influenced how plants grow so a human could be given plant properties and plants human properties and the results could sometimes end up identical regardless of their initial state.

Maybe "it" became sentient as soon as Human DNA was involved in the process. It made something new. New Humans, that have to explore the world anew.

excelsiorlef · Mar 15, 2018

ZombAid said:
Maybe "it" became sentient as soon as Human DNA was involved in the process. It made something new. New Humans, that have to explore the world anew.

I don't think so. The force itself died with the light house... it simply became us... our memories but not us.

It remixed human DNA long ago... long before oyr characters entered but there was no sign of sentience in the shimmer itself.

ZombAid · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
I don't think so. The force itself died with the light house... it simply became us... our memories but not us.

It remixed human DNA long ago... long before oyr characters entered but there was no sign of sentience in the shimmer itself.

So, you don't think, the shimmer still exists?
That's what I thought, or crossed my mind at some point.
That as soon as it became this duality again (Kane and Lena) it became sentient and realized that the rest of their "ancestor" is just baggage. It just changed form, into two humans.
It made two clones, one of Kane and one of Lena, that's pretty sure, right?
These two clones are the only thing, that could've ever left the shimmer.
Was everything that evolved within the shimmer destroyed in the process?
The glass trees and the Lighthouse seemed to be the only things.

Edit:

True, it did that. But it also needed some time to change it for his own needs. The shimmer itself wasn't sentient, yes. But everything that evolved because of it, became a new lifeform that has other thinking then a regular earth inhabitant.

Atrophis · Mar 15, 2018

Lapsed said:
And I am just happy "new weird" fiction is getting more of a platform as time goes on. I wonder whatever happened to the BBC production of The City and The City.

It's coming soon.

https://www.panmacmillan.com/blogs/picador/the-city-the-city-coming-to-tv-in-2018

Jezabel · Mar 15, 2018

Ive been listening to lots of Crosby still and Nash because of this.

Helplessly Hoping is such a great song

excelsiorlef · Mar 15, 2018

ZombAid said:
So, you don't think, the shimmer still exists?
That's what I thought, or crossed my mind at some point.
That as soon as it became this duality again (Kane and Lena) it became sentient and realized that the rest of their "ancestor" is just baggage. It just changed form, into two humans.
It made two clones, one of Kane and one of Lena, that's pretty sure, right?
These two clones are the only thing, that could've ever left the shimmer.
Was everything that evolved within the shimmer destroyed in the process?
The glass trees and the Lighthouse seemed to be the only things.

Yes the shimmer is gone.

I don't think Lena is a clone I think she just merged with the Shimmer on a cellular level... It's taken her body and memories.

I still don't think it realizes anything regarding what it once was... It's got no sense of homeworld or feeling of not being from Earth. It is now us... it will now replace us but still be us.

ZombAid · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Yes the shimmer is gone.

I don't think Lena is a clone I think she just merged with the Shimmer on a cellular level... It's taken her body and memories.

I still don't think it realizes anything regarding what it once was... It's got no sense of homeworld or feeling of not being from Earth. It is now us... it will now replace us but still be us.

I think we mean the same, more or less ;-)
The only difference is, that I think Lena is just a clone, and you think she just merged with the shimmer.
But yeah, the shimmer was never conscious to begin with.
It's a constant forward and backwards in my head with some themes.
But why did they lose 4 days at the beginning? That's something that seems almost like the Shimmer analyzed them....
But still #ShimmerIsDumb ;-)
I love it!

excelsiorlef · Mar 15, 2018

ZombAid said:
I think we mean the same, more or less ;-)
The only difference is, that I think Lena is just a clone, and you think she just merged with the shimmer.
But yeah, the shimmer was never conscious to begin with.
It's a constant forward and backwards in my head with some themes.
But why did they lose 4 days at the beginning? That's something that seems almost like the Shimmer analyzed them....
But still #ShimmerIsDumb ;-)
I love it!

Apparently it's a remnant of the book where the psychologist hypnotizes them so that's probably why it's not really addressed or a major thing in the movie.

Maybe that's the length of time it takes for the Shimmer to bond with the body and in that time you are on auto pilot...

Geoff · Mar 15, 2018

Just jumping in to say I interpreted the film as an allegory for their relationship, her attempts to fix the underlying problems and the resulting pyrrhic victory that she excised the issues but both parties had been irreparably altered by the process.

ZombAid · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Apparently it's a remnant of the book where the psychologist hypnotizes them so that's probably why it's not really addressed or a major thing in the movie.

Maybe that's the length of time it takes for the Shimmer to bond with the body and in that time you are on auto pilot...

Maybe to check the metabolism of humans, to adjust them, so they don't starve along the way ;-)

Deleted member 28474 · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
I'd love to see a version you describe.

To me what was so nightmarish is how much calmness I felt about the idea of the shimmer expanding and just rebooting life on earth. Like I felt bad about some of the individual deaths because I liked those characters but I also was so calm with the idea of everything we know being Annihilated. Which in itself is kind of scary, realizing that that doesn't scare you. I think what enabled that is the total de-personalization of whatever it is that created the shimmer... it wasn't mean, cruel, or even misguided, it wasn't even conscious it just was...

It's interesting reading how many folks tapped into Annihilation themes of personal self destruction... I never considered that.

I was far more absorbed to the different means of annihilation of natural law and scientific law and life as we understand it.

Or as the end presented what I called a Double Annihilation in that the shimmer will seemlessly replace humanity but by becoming us will continue down our path of killing the planet... Annihilation of humanity and then Annihilation of the Earth...

The film's end is a tragedy... The Planet was denied a rebirth and its would be saviour is now going to continue the work of its destroyer.

I think in the book, without saying too much, the lighthouse stuff was more of a human kind of nightmare.

Obsession bordering on madness, the possible futility of knowledge, betrayal and more existential things. As well as having very violent imagery.

I share your sentiments and reasoning about the movie. I am happy for a thoughtful kind of nightmare!

Atrophis said:
It's coming soon.

https://www.panmacmillan.com/blogs/picador/the-city-the-city-coming-to-tv-in-2018

Awesome, I'm excited to see how this will turn out. I have absolutely no fucking idea how exactly they will FILM something like The City and The City, but I am curious to see what they do.

When it comes to Mieville and his books, there are two scenes that stand out to me as being extremely visual. The birth of the you know what in Perdido Street Station, and a climactic scene toward the end of The Scar.

The ships toppling into the wound in reality leaking possibility.

If someone pulled off that scene in film, fucking hell it would be intense.

excelsiorlef · Mar 15, 2018

ZombAid said:
Maybe to check the metabolism of humans, to adjust them, so they don't starve along the way ;-)

Lol you really want a consciousness. They ate though and that's how they knew how long it had bern they counted their food rations.

I will say though one potential is that Lena and Kane might have the abilities of the shimmer... they might be able to merge and remix dna... only instead of it being a random naturalistic force they'd have awareness and consciousness and intentions to do it purposely and pick and choose and control essentially becoming both God and Adam and Eve rolled into one.

Though I still prefer this idea that the shimmer is doomed to replace us but he us.

UnluckyKate · Mar 15, 2018

zeitheist said:
A few thoughts/observations:

The transparent "trees" next to the light house are not part of the genetic experiments. They are alien technology. Maybe communication devices to send back reports. Maybe interference devices. Maybe they were responsible for the "wall". They were destroyed on purpose at the end.

Thoughts?

The beach trees to me, are transparent because they are made of what lies there : sand and salt. They are crystals, growing like the others plants but made of sand and salt found in the immediate surroundings.

ZombAid · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Lol you really want a consciousness. They ate though and that's how they knew how long it had bern they counted their food rations.

I will say though one potential is that Lena and Kane might have the abilities of the shimmer... they might be able to merge and remix dna... only instead of it being a random naturalistic force they'd have awareness and consciousness and intentions to do it purposely and pick and choose and control essentially becoming both God and Adam and Eve rolled into one.

Though I still prefer this idea that the shimmer is doomed to replace us but he us.

Of course!
I want to welcome our supreme Overlords! ;-)
Kane and Lena are the shimmer now, for me!
Kane was the first (First son of Adam;-).
And Lena (Greek for Sunlight)was second and the spark that ignited everything.

excelsiorlef · Mar 15, 2018

ZombAid said:
Of course!
I want to welcome our supreme Overlords! ;-)
Kane and Lena are the shimmer now, for me!
Kane was the first (First son of Adam;-).
And Lena (Greek for Sunlight)was second and the spark that ignited everything.

I'm still going with that by killing the shimmer Lena has doomed the shimmer to normalcy... trapped it in humanity... where once it could have reshaped the world... the world has reshaped it.

We are dead
God is dead

HStallion · Mar 15, 2018

I think some of the observations about The Shimmer are reaching a bit, especially things like giving the "alien" any kind of specific motivation or things of that nature. Trying to rip things apart so much to give everything a purpose or meaning or direction is kind of missing the point. Some of you might go mad trying to break down a film like Stalker if you went in like you did with Annihilation.

Deleted member 28474 · Mar 15, 2018

HStallion said:
I think some of the observations about The Shimmer are reaching a bit, especially things like giving the "alien" any kind of specific motivation or things of that nature. Trying to rip things apart so much to give everything a purpose or meaning or direction is kind of missing the point. Some of you might go mad trying to break down a film like Stalker if you went in like you did with Annihilation.

I tend to think so too. It doesn't need a purpose or motivation. It is what it is and does what it does. Funnily enough, people have interpreted Stalker as being a Taoist kind of film too!

Stalker is one of my favorite movies of all time. It can be a difficult film, but I feel like its ambiguity is perfect. Annihilation tries to go down this route, but at some points tries to explain some things with discourse. I understand why they would do that, but the impact of Stalker is greater because it gives so much room to breathe and gives everyone a chance to try and figure things out, or take faith in whatever resolution they decide on. I don't say this to take away from Annihilation, its just a different thing.

Lynchian Anomaly · Mar 15, 2018

HStallion said:
I think some of the observations about The Shimmer are reaching a bit, especially things like giving the "alien" any kind of specific motivation or things of that nature. Trying to rip things apart so much to give everything a purpose or meaning or direction is kind of missing the point. Some of you might go mad trying to break down a film like Stalker if you went in like you did with Annihilation.

I agree. What makes the entity interesting and scary to me is that the intent and motivations (if there even is any) are so beyond human understanding that it doesn't matter. It taps into that Cosmic lovecraftian fear of the unknown and the unknowable. This 'alien' being a scout emissary from the glorbon nebula is such a narrow boring way to want to explain the story.

ZombAid · Mar 15, 2018

HStallion said:
I think some of the observations about The Shimmer are reaching a bit, especially things like giving the "alien" any kind of specific motivation or things of that nature. Trying to rip things apart so much to give everything a purpose or meaning or direction is kind of missing the point. Some of you might go mad trying to break down a film like Stalker if you went in like you did with Annihilation.

Observing, one of our few good leisure activity humanity has to offer ;-)
And yeah, i went in Stalker with the same mindset, and am completely crazy now.

Chiaroscuro · Mar 15, 2018

Exactly. People have a tendency of anthropomorph any alien or alien encounter (which is normal because we always try to understand or rationalize in our terms the unknown). Even with technological gaps any alien is always portrait with human intentions or reasons. It is like a modern day expedition to an isolated tribe or something. In reality an alien encounter probably will not have any common ground of understanding. It may work so different from us that even the question what it wants is pointless. People should read Roadside Picnic or the works from Stanislaw Lem.

IlGialloMondadori · Mar 15, 2018

Anung said:
I agree. What makes the entity interesting and scary to me is that the intent and motivations (if there even is any) are so beyond human understanding that it doesn't matter. It taps into that Cosmic lovecraftian fear of the unknown and the unknowable. This 'alien' being a scout emissary from the glorbon nebula is such a narrow boring way to want to explain the story.

Yep. The film and the novel are 100% cosmic horror. The alien is completely unknowable and we are powerless in its wake, which is the real horror.

Geoff · Mar 15, 2018

IlGialloMondadori said:
Yep. The film and the novel are 100% cosmic horror. The alien is completely unknowable and we are powerless* in its wake, which is the real horror.

*not including phosphor

Deleted member 28474 · Mar 15, 2018

Mieville tried to create something completely alien in Embassytown but ended up saying later that it may be impossible for humans to create something completely and utterly alien.

Having said that, some of the stuff in Embassytown is the most surreal and alien stuff I have ever read.

JRBechard · Mar 15, 2018

What was up with the lined up skulls and torsos outside the lighthouse?

And also I liked the guitar-based music, it emphasized the contrast with full-on alien sounds later on to make them feel even more alien.

Fanatic · Mar 15, 2018

I really liked the premise, the execution not so much. Really not much of a point to try and dog it down for others, but the acting felt bad and weird in places, and it just didn't really feel "high quality" to me. Basically the last third of the film felt really off to me.

Ramala · Mar 15, 2018

"I don't know what it wants. I don't know if it wants."

IlGialloMondadori · Mar 15, 2018

Geoff said:
*not including phosphor

I think it's ambiguous whether this is the real Lena or not. If it is, it's not really her and she's been dramatically changed, or, it's her doppelganger.
Even if phosphor worked and it's the real Lena in body, it's not a victory, she's still warped by the shimmer.

Atraveller · Mar 15, 2018

JRBechard said:
What was up with the lined up skulls and torsos outside the lighthouse?

Probably placed there by the few who made it to the lighthouse, as a monument to mourn those who came before, and those would follow.

Deleted member 8463 · Mar 15, 2018

Finally saw it last night - brilliant film. I now need to find a copy of the book.

Geoff · Mar 15, 2018

IlGialloMondadori said:
I think it's ambiguous whether this is the real Lena or not. If it is, it's not really her and she's been dramatically changed, or, it's her doppelganger.
Even if phosphor worked and it's the real Lena in body, it's not a victory, she's still warped by the shimmer.

I think it was clear that the real Lena killed the fake Lena (like I think you could tell which was which at the point she gave her the grenade). But I agree that she was changed by the process. Old Mr Alien still took a complete beasting though so I maintain that we are not powerless vs it, even if it did snide a piece of itself away

Fuu · Mar 15, 2018

IlGialloMondadori said:
I think it's ambiguous whether this is the real Lena or not. If it is, it's not really her and she's been dramatically changed, or, it's her doppelganger.
Even if phosphor worked and it's the real Lena in body, it's not a victory, she's still warped by the shimmer.

Geoff said:
I think it was clear that the real Lena killed the fake Lena (like I think you could tell which was which at the point she gave her the grenade). But I agree that she was changed by the process. Old Mr Alien still took a complete beasting though so I maintain that we are not powerless vs it, even if it did snide a piece of itself away

Yes. A major theme in the movie is about losing oneself, and how much experiences and trauma change us to the point we become completely different people.

"In a way, it's two bereavements. My beautiful girl and the person I once was."

At the end we have a Kane who's not the original. But Lena understands that the other Kane she once knew wasn't the same anymore and was long gone. And, affected by the shimmer, Lena herself isn't the same person she was before either. They went through different experiences, but both lost who they once were to become new people, and the movie ends with her accepting that fact.

That theme is combined with the idea of self-destruction, and how we constantly rebuild ourselves. The film covers that on a cellular level and that of degenerative diseases, but also on a more personal level of depression and self-harm. The notion that our tendencies for destruction and sabotage are coded in your DNA is strangely comforting.

Lena's relationship with Kane, the copying and mixing that goes on in Area X, all of that fits into the major themes of the story. The "final confrontation" being about Lena facing "herself" is a big realization of that, where the hardest moment is when she's being crushed by herself, but without aggressiveness. Changing and blending. Annihilation and reconstruction.

IlGialloMondadori · Mar 15, 2018

Fuu said:
Yes. A major theme in the movie is about losing oneself, and how much experiences and trauma changes us to the point we become completely different people.

"In a way, it's two bereavements. My beautiful girl and the person I once was."

At the end we have a Kane who's not the original. But Lena understands that the other Kane she once knew wasn't the same anymore and was long gone. And, affected by the shimmer, Lena herself isn't the same person she was before either. They went through different experiences, but both lost who they once were to become new people, and the movie ends with her accepting that fact.

That theme is combined with the idea of self-destruction, and how we constantly rebuild ourselves. The film covers that on a cellular level and that of degenerative diseases, but also on a more personal level of depression and self-harm. The notion that our tendencies for destruction and sabotage are coded in your DNA is strangely comforting.

Lena's relationship with Kane, the copying and mixing that goes on in Area X, all of that fits into the major themes of the story. The "final confrontation" being about Lena facing "herself" is a big realization of that, where the hardest moment is when she's being crushed by herself, but without aggressiveness. Changing and blending. Annihilation and reconstruction.

100% agree with your analysis. Great stuff.

Anton Sugar · Mar 15, 2018

Rewatched again and yeah, I definitely think there's no way Kane knew about the affair prior to him leaving.

In the scene where Lena and her colleague have had sex, when he's asking her what's wrong, he says, "You think something may have happened to him? You think he knows? You think he somehow found out about our affair?"

"Something may have happened to him" is very much a nod to him having left already.

Furthermore, when Lena and Ventress are talking about Kane, Lena wants to know why Kane would have gone on a suicide mission, that he must have had a reason, and that's when Ventress talks about how not everyone commits suicide, but almost everyone self-destructs, in some way.

I think Kane being distant when he leaves is just him realizing that he very well could die, that it *is* a suicide mission. Volunteering to be in the military is, or at least can be, a self-destructive act.

Zoe · Mar 15, 2018

excelsiorlef said:
Fascinating.... for book lovers I'm sure it's disappointing but for me reading these changes I can't help but be glad some were made. I wouldn't have liked an entity, I liked that here whatever it is feels, like I've said before, more of a force than a being.

Area X is much more than the Crawler in the book... there's definitely some kind of "force" like you're describing.

Einchy · Mar 15, 2018

Anton Sugar said:
Rewatched again and yeah, I definitely think there's no way Kane knew about the affair prior to him leaving.

In the scene where Lena and her colleague have had sex, when he's asking her what's wrong, he says, "You think something may have happened to him? You think he knows? You think he somehow found out about our affair?"

"Something may have happened to him" is very much a nod to him having left already.

Furthermore, when Lena and Ventress are talking about Kane, Lena wants to know why Kane would have gone on a suicide mission, that he must have had a reason, and that's when Ventress talks about how not everyone commits suicide, but almost everyone self-destructs, in some way.

I think Kane being distant when he leaves is just him realizing that he very well could die, that it *is* a suicide mission. Volunteering to be in the military is, or at least can be, a self-destructive act.

The way I interpreted that is that Kane is often away in a lot of missions, which I think is furthered strengthen by her realizing something is different about this mission. I think it's very common for Kane to go away on missions for who knows how long and when she jokes about, "is that what you think I do? Pine for you" or whatever, I think that's a hint of the fact that she has actually cheated while he was away.

The scene where he tells her something like, "you know, I really do love you" or the scene where they're very separate on the same couch makes me think that there really was trouble there already. Like Ventress tells Lena, something the self destruction isn't really a decision. I feels like Kane was pushed to self destruct because he knew his happy marriage wasn't so happy. Lena's reaction to her saying that is very telling, I think her reaction only makes sense if she's thinking something like, "why does she know?".

Rangerx · Mar 15, 2018

Movie was unbelievable. What happened though?

MadLaughter · Mar 15, 2018

Ventress definitely implies that Kane told her about the cheating during his eval when she's going about all the ways self destruction can happen. That plus his entire last scene with her.

Anton Sugar · Mar 15, 2018

MadLaughter said:
Ventress definitely implies that Kane told her about the cheating during his eval when she's going about all the ways self destruction can happen. That plus his entire last scene with her.

I didnt read Ventress that way. It feels to me like Lena is GRASPING for a reason for his decision to go, she just really wants confirmation or some idea of why he would go on the mission/self-destruct. It felt to me like Ventress pivots from that and says that people self-destruct in any number of ways.

MadLaughter · Mar 15, 2018

Anton Sugar said:
I didnt read Ventress that way. It feels to me like Lena is GRASPING for a reason for his decision to go, she just really wants confirmation or some idea of why he would go on the mission/self-destruct. It felt to me like Ventress pivots from that and says that people self-destruct in any number of ways.

I think she's more hoping that it was anything BUT the cheating. Ventress is like "Drugs, alcohol...SABOTOGING THEIR RELATIONSHIPS" or whatever and then gives Lena this super heavy side-eye. Combined with how distant Kane was right before he departed, his odd dialogue there and the contrast to how loving he acted in a few other scenes..

thefragrance · Mar 15, 2018

Wow, this movie fucked me up good for the night. Not a lot of movies do this for me anymore.

It had a lot of those interstellar "Look! this is a piece of paper you can fold in half and put a pencil through to cross a wormhole" moments, but it still stands out for its ambiguity at the end. I laughed at the first death in the movie because of course it had to be a cgi bear. When it appears again though, holy shit. The woman screams will haunt me for days, and the thought that this is a reference to the last echoes of a dying person, particularly someone with cancer or terminal disease. This will keep me shuddering for a while.

Question that's prob already been answered itt: what was going on with the paychologist at the end? Initially she was all strange-looking and seemed to have no eyes before turning over to portman and looking normal. Was that a duplicate? Did she transcend by fusing with her copy? I don't get the implications of that part or why there are countless bones just outside of the lighthouse.

Elodes · Mar 15, 2018

I'm curious how clone-Kane managed to get to Lena's house in the first place? Did no one see him? Did no one stop him? And how did information about his return get released afterwards, when he was in the ambulance?

Wollan · Mar 15, 2018

Elodes said:
I'm curious how clone-Kane managed to get to Lena's house in the first place? Did no one see him? Did no one stop him? And how did information about his return get released afterwards, when he was in the ambulance?

I think he 'magically' appears there. The forces of Area X are stronger than mere DNA mutation.

Elodes · Mar 15, 2018

Wollan said:
I think he 'magically' appears there. The forces of Area X are stronger than mere DNA mutation.

Right, that seems to fit with the character having zero memories of anything before seeing Lena.

...It kind of comes across as a very handwavey explanation, though. Also, what was up with the skewed time perception within the shimmer? Was that also just information being refracted?

Wollan · Mar 15, 2018

Elodes said:
Right, that seems to fit with the character having zero memories of anything before seeing Lena.

...It kind of comes across as a very handwavey explanation, though. Also, what was up with the skewed time perception within the shimmer? Was that also just information being refracted?

To your initial question: The Shimmer (or Area X as it's simply called in the book) is indicated to have these other mysterious aspects in the novel. And there seems to be larger forces at play than a single entity.

Your second question: This is a larger story element in the books which is probably the biggest omission from the film adaption.

The psychologist has been hypnoticing the other team members which often causes loss of memory. She gets them to do some extreme things, even lethal. ''Annihilation" is the trigger word for suicide.

Dany · Mar 15, 2018

I really like how we don't know if what took place in the shimmer actually happened. Lena is an untrustworthy narrator. Very clever

Zoe · Mar 15, 2018

Wollan said:
Your second question: This is a larger story element in the books which is probably the biggest omission from the film adaption.

The psychologist has been hypnoticing the other team members which often causes loss of memory. She gets them to do some extreme things, even lethal. ''Annihilation" is the trigger word for suicide.

That's missing time. Lomax tells her she was in the Shimmer for months whereas she's only perceived weeks at most.

That's the opposite of the book--time passes much quicker in Area X.

Annihilation |OT| A Shimmer Out Of Space [Spoilers]

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