Neen

Member
Oct 30, 2017
97
Canada
Woooah. That's a huge roster move. Should be really interesting the next few days. Curious to see what happens with Reps and Big E...
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,177
Broken Moon is officially my top 2 favorite map with the new changes. I can't get over how different the whole thing feels. It's basically a new map….Its such a shame we have to wait two days in ranked to get it back again.
 

Facism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,952
Is there a wallhacking epidemic or something? I've had a bunch of sus games since the start of this season and then spectated the guys who pre-fired my silent ass around corners. 3 games where the guy who killed me is tracking people through geometry without seeing them first. that's like 10% of the games I've played this season so far.

Not played Moon enough yet but the changes are positive.
 

LordFlash

Member
Mar 24, 2023
895
He was also signed to red bull gaming within the last few weeks. I recall a promo tweet with iItzTimmy. They're not a proper esports org like TSM/OpTic but sort of sign big people like that while they're with other orgs.

The rumor is that it Zero and gen's contract expires soon and all three of them are getting signed by some Saudi backed org for a big paycheck.

I dont know how well their will work though. On paper it is an insane upgrade and I am sure there will be a honeymoon period. But both Hal and Zero have this very blunt personality that I cant see getting along with each other for too long. A string of bad games and it could get really ugly.

Either that or this will be Apex's version of Astralis going god mode in CSGO a few years ago.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,312
revenant is insufferable during his ult fuck man what a frustrating character to fight against
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
744
I've been playing again for season 20 and the game is a lot of fun again.

They've fixed the matchmaking both in ranked and unranked. Ranked is actually based on your rank now, rather than an invisible MMR. So the tens of thousands of people who had a free ride to masters across the last 6 or so seasons are going to be having a very tough time this season.

In pubs, they factor in the skill of your team mates now, not just the highest ranked player. So I can play with any group of friends and it generally feels fair. Previously it felt like I was just pulling my friends into very miserable games, and it was actively difficult to get a squad together that was good enough for my pubs lobbys. I think that's an absurd problem to have.

It's kind of surreal that they let these problems just fester for 6-10 seasons. The matchmaking in either pubs or ranked has been poor for a very, very long time.
I waited until (past) the end of the season to reply to this since I was thinking that maybe there's something that I'd missed, but I'm really not seeing how ranked matchmaking has gotten better since the switch back.

Anecdotally, I found s19 ranked to be a lot of fun, enough to keep playing after hitting the wall where average rating change was close to zero. In season 20, my anecdotal observations were:
  • The average number of Wraith/Octane/Pathfinder pickers on my team was around 1. In a vacuum, that wouldn't be a problem, but there's an evident correlation between being inclined to play those in ranked and... personality, for lack of a better term. It also doesn't help that the skirmisher Evo passive is already the worst one, and doubling up on them for the hell of it is an extra handicap. At least the Revenant pickers can win gunfights.
  • Somewhere around 20-30% of my matches had teammates on voice communicating in English. In s19, this was closer to 60-70%.
  • Teammates were generally less interested in holding spots and avoiding high traffic areas, and there were certainly a lot more instances of calling anything other than running at the sound of gunfire "ratting."
Maybe it's the case that if I were skilled enough to get to the very high rating lobbies, I'd have a good time, but at least based on the streams I've been watching, I doubt that's the case. As of typing this, I just watched Reps getting out of a diamond lobby where there were six teams left at the start of ring 2 pull.

I'm not even sure what problems reverting to this system solved other than the most obvious one of looking better on the surface. Hard ratting would have been solved by the introduction of higher gas damage + hard limit on time spent in it. Too many players in masters is a simple function of adjusting entry fee. Unbalanced matchmaking is likely even worse now; I have a very hard time believing people are playing enough to have their visible rating match their skill level especially since s21 came with a hard reset yet again, while the black box of s19 felt pretty good. When I saw professional players on my killfeed show up with increasing frequency back then, it felt like validation that I was doing something right, whereas if I see a current master now, I know for a fact that it's because matchmaking ran out of players for their lobby.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,177
Ranked just a miserable slog this season honestly. It's mostly because of the maps too. KC is just like playing in a sardine can in ranked. If you manage to survive one fight you won't be alive for very long after.

This is where I get fed up with Respawn. Why they still dont have an LTM playlist is just so dumb to me. I guess I need to start playing control - which I did enjoy the last time I played it.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,312
And he can silently wall run up to you anywhere too…..He's OP AF
between his tactical being a free escape and the 75 extra health he's just annoying especially end game when he has red armor
that being said i play horizon a lot so i dont have the right to complain about tacticals but 1v1ing solos and leaving him one shot after dropping 270+ damage is aggravating



also side note had a 16 kill solo game that i got 3rd in, i rly want the 20 but shit is so hard bruh 😭

Going for the 20 is probably gonna be my goal for the rest of the time solos is there


edit: alter is crazy loool
just used her in a solos and kidnapped literally my last 5 kills into a win 😭😭


edit 2: got a 18 kill game at 5th in solos 🥲 got shot in the back when getting my 19th kill and then just got a 19kill win.

i'm so close 😭
 
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SasaBassa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,190
Ranked just a miserable slog this season honestly. It's mostly because of the maps too. KC is just like playing in a sardine can in ranked. If you manage to survive one fight you won't be alive for very long after.

This is where I get fed up with Respawn. Why they still dont have an LTM playlist is just so dumb to me. I guess I need to start playing control - which I did enjoy the last time I played it.

KC is a great pub map but an awful ranked map. Not nearly enough real estate
 

LordFlash

Member
Mar 24, 2023
895
Ranked just a miserable slog this season honestly. It's mostly because of the maps too. KC is just like playing in a sardine can in ranked. If you manage to survive one fight you won't be alive for very long after.

This is where I get fed up with Respawn. Why they still dont have an LTM playlist is just so dumb to me. I guess I need to start playing control - which I did enjoy the last time I played it.

You genuinely cannot rank up as a Solo Q'er if KC is in the rotation. Especially as you move to Gold and beyond.

The only way to do well on that map is to be EXTREMELY selective about which fights you want to take based on where you are on the map. And sometimes even that is not enough. Throw in randoms who W key every gunshot they hear... you are not gaining any RP.
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,177
KC is a great pub map but an awful ranked map. Not nearly enough real estate

You genuinely cannot rank up as a Solo Q'er if KC is in the rotation. Especially as you move to Gold and beyond.

The only way to do well on that map is to be EXTREMELY selective about which fights you want to take based on where you are on the map. And sometimes even that is not enough. Throw in randoms who W key every gunshot they hear... you are not gaining any RP.

Well I'm atleast glad I'm not crazy and it's the map. I will skip the days it's in rotation and just deal with WE…..

The nuts thing is that I've been playing with a couple of decent players in ranked and we got nowhere. Anytime one of us died and we did manage to pull off a respawn, we were jumped by atlesst 2 teams immediately while dropping back into the map. It's just stupid. Basically you can't get downed or die because you will either not have enough time to pull of a revive due to third partying and if you respawn you'll get jumped.
 

SanderJK

Member
Oct 31, 2017
482
Ranked currently is kind of devious. Because it's so hard to get into plat and diamond (Roughly 17%/1.2% last split with same rules) with a full reset, people that are good but mess around, or smurf, stay in silver and gold lobbies for a long time. Shooting fools and dieing, getting 4 kills and 0 points.

Which means that those lobbies can contain opponents of just about every strength. Before the last 2 weeks, the top 50% is in gold and the next 40% is in silver, with smurfs and late joiners moving through.

This means you can never be sure what kind team you are facing. Sometimes you meet absolute bots that stand still to shoot, sometimes you get an octane that gets 2 pk headshots with a 180 swing during a pad bounce.
And I think other players aren't noticing this yet, so you get a lot of sour players on your own team that don't understand why they are losing fights and not advancing. It's because the upper 3 tiers don't really exist anymore.
Everyone gets to Silver, half get to gold, 17% get to plat IV (and plat IVs are gold I/II lobbies), 6% to play III or higher, 1.2% diamond, 0.03%masters
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,177
Respawn needs to implement some Open AI algorithms into their ranked scoring. Make the whole thing dynamic. There has to be a way for the system to know that a master level player is smurfing and has no business being in Silver 2. Just push them through the system immediately and have them hop right up to diamond.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,312
whewwww
after 350 games of solos basically i got my 20bomb and 4k on horizon 🥹
now i can just try to get it on wraith/alter next for fun

damn bruh that shit was hard to get
 

SanderJK

Member
Oct 31, 2017
482
Respawn needs to implement some Open AI algorithms into their ranked scoring. Make the whole thing dynamic. There has to be a way for the system to know that a master level player is smurfing and has no business being in Silver 2. Just push them through the system immediately and have them hop right up to diamond.

They had such a system, but the last implementation resulted in a parallel track. If you were a good player you got put in Diamond level lobbies in Bronze, and had a real grind to points.
If you were bad, you would keep facing only bad opponents until you hit diamond. And even then you could grind out more points.
That was the season like 50% reached master.

Respawn is already really good at knowing how good you are. They just don't want to put to everyone on a level playing field. They want all but the top players to get farmed mostly, and then every now and again you drop down and get to farm lower level players.
And the most vocal players, the streamers and pros get their 'nonsweaty lobbies' aka wide sbmm where they will beat everyone 3v3 until they run into another pro.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,312
I got it in 1 game by using a secret (?) method lol. I don't even care anymore. Ain't going to waste 300+ games getting a badge I don't even deserve lol
why bc it's easier than a regular 20?
it did take me long i guess but i was only rly locked in the last two days aiming for 20 , i just wanted to finish the solo challenges and my friends dont rly play apex anymore so im stuck playing solos over trios anyways lol
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,522
I've been trying to improve my micro recently. Take less damage on trades, better small scale repositioning in fights and I feel like this clip, is the cumulation of that.


View: https://youtu.be/A7mIOk37m1o

I don't think I've ever had a fight like it. This team we're against are masters and this guy couldn't finish me off when I had 1 hp. Obviously this isn't always possible, and in fact I didn't think I'd kill him I just wanted to deal some damage and prolong my 1 vs 1 so that my team above would have time to finish the 2 vs 2 before they turned on him.

I got into this situation by trying to push up to assist, blood hit me hard and pushed. So I wasn't going for a completely isolated 1 vs 1, I was trying to push with the team, but the blood forced it because they hit me so hard with a hemlock on the walkup.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,591
Greater Vancouver
Nice job man. Looks great!
YO nice, trailer was great!
Great job! You should be proud. Turned out great.
great job! Love the video.


We need an apex show!

Thanks everybody! Glad you all enjoyed it.

It was funny being like 40 minutes into the first call as they were explaining the world to me, and then I had to raise my hand like "uhh... I really didn't want to be that guy, but just thought you should know my Steam says I have 1000 hours in Apex Legends." Lol
 

Tabby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,456
I don't understand this backwards ass logic they have with keeping the Mozambique and P2020 shit. What's the point? What even is an "early game gun" if you can literally find every gun on the ground anyway at any point in the game?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,849
I think everyone should start the game with a P2020 (and take the gun out of ground loot). Make those hot drops a little more dangerous as everyone will have a way to defend themselves before finding a good gun.
 

Lemstar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
744
They had such a system, but the last implementation resulted in a parallel track. If you were a good player you got put in Diamond level lobbies in Bronze, and had a real grind to points.
If you were bad, you would keep facing only bad opponents until you hit diamond. And even then you could grind out more points.
That was the season like 50% reached master.
Seasons 18 and 19 worked like that too. It was an increase in entry fee and a decrease in payout that dropped Masters from 35% to 1% between seasons 17-18, not a change in how matchmaking worked.

Respawn needs to implement some Open AI algorithms into their ranked scoring. Make the whole thing dynamic. There has to be a way for the system to know that a master level player is smurfing and has no business being in Silver 2. Just push them through the system immediately and have them hop right up to diamond.
Fundamentally, as long as people play ranked for the wrong reasons of making imaginary points go up for a shiny badge that nobody really cares about, there's no solution. Ranking never being reset would improve matchmaking quality hypothetically if it wouldn't come with the consequence of nobody playing it.

Of course, a permanent account rank does exist already - that's what your hidden MMR is, after all.
 

Facism

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,952
for fuck's sake it's 2024 and a FULLY STIMMED OCTANE can still sprint on you with 0 audio cues. Just fucking garbage.
 

bry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,312
devotion always bodies me end game in solos lol

the only time i won vs devo is when i had a gold havoc which shredded thru a ulted rev with dev
i didnt notice they were rotating 4 game modes in mixtape
they should just take out control

i wish they didn't nerf the wingman ammo i miss using it all game 🥹

 
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Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,522
Man I wish respawn wouldn't put awful sights on weapons.

Dying in solos because I landed on a 2x PK and didn't have time to take the 2k off it. Seriously why is that on there? Most people I see use it without sights at all, I don't mind it with a 1x but I don't think people generally want a 2x on there.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,522
Encounter a lot of people teaming in solos today. An abnormal amount compared to other modes. I guess because it's an easier way to farm badges and whatnot.

I think everyone should start the game with a P2020 (and take the gun out of ground loot). Make those hot drops a little more dangerous as everyone will have a way to defend themselves before finding a good gun.

In principle it sounds like a good idea but actually it creates more problems. If everyone starts with a P2020 it becomes much more easy to just land on someone and kill them instantly.

Especially if you're coordinating with your team, or yourself very highly skilled.

Like I'm usually master and my KDR is 4.5 or so, if I land with a P2020 on someone who's platinum or with a much lower KDR, then they die even if they manage to pick up a better weapon on the ground. The chances are they'll take damage trying to do that particularly because the weapon needs to 'ready' and they'll be dead. If they try and fight with the P2020, they'll die anyway.

Landing with weapons of any type would just hurt the game.
 
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LordFlash

Member
Mar 24, 2023
895
Encounter a lot of people teaming in solos today. An abnormal amount compared to other modes. I guess because it's an easier way to farm badges and whatnot.

In principle it sounds like a good idea but actually it creates more problems. If everyone starts with a P2020 it becomes much more easy to just land on someone and kill them instantly.

Especially if you're coordinating with your team, or yourself very highly skilled.

Like I'm usually master and my KDR is 4.5 or so, if I land with a P2020 on someone who's platinum or with a much lower KDR, then they die even if they manage to pick up a better weapon on the ground. The chances are they'll take damage trying to do that particularly because the weapon needs to 'ready' and they'll be dead. If they try and fight with the P2020, they'll die anyway.

Landing with weapons of any type would just hurt the game.

I think even from outside of skill and fairness, landing with a P2020/Mozam would remove that rush you get when you land on a bin and find a Mastiff while your opponent is running around with his bare fists. Its kinda what makes BR and Hot drops what they are. That burst of adrenaline when you land and the roulette wheel stops on your bet is kinda worth having.

I dont think I would be opposed to the idea of dropping with those 2 guns (even if its just to clean up the loot pool) but I can see why you would not want to do that.
 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,522
I think even from outside of skill and fairness, landing with a P2020/Mozam would remove that rush you get when you land on a bin and find a Mastiff while your opponent is running around with his bare fists. Its kinda what makes BR and Hot drops what they are. That burst of adrenaline when you land and the roulette wheel stops on your bet is kinda worth having.

I dont think I would be opposed to the idea of dropping with those 2 guns (even if its just to clean up the loot pool) but I can see why you would not want to do that.

Yeah I think you raise a good point thinking about it outside of skill and fairness, because it's actually not really a matter of farness anyway. In theory being able to drop on someone and instantly kill them with a P2020 is fair in the sense that you both had equal opportunity, it's just not very compelling. I think the scenario you pose, where you can get a good gun and then kill your opponent because you have that good weapon that's obviously a situation that some might see as unfair but it makes the game more fun.

It's something I would describe as choice designed to make the game less deterministic. In theory if we think about fairness, we would spawn with the same weapons in symmetrical arenas and all randomised factors would be minimised, but if we consider why battle royale's are enjoyed by so many, their unique selling point is really that non-deterministic factor. You can in theory, drop on the best player in the world and your mediocre squad could kill him if he doesn't find a gun.

Obviously there's a balance that must be struck. You don't want to make a game that's entirely non-deterministic because then the players choices cease to feel like they matter. Apex's design is all about treading that line very carefully so that choices feel meaningful while allowing non-deterministic factors to still influence gameplay. These forces, player decision-making, randomised factors and the diversity of player behaviour work together to create a fuzzy system where the player is constantly making meaningful, influential choices, but choices that won't always be right.

And that to me, is why spawning with weapons can't work, because it gives players the power to take all of those non-deterministic elements of the game away. If someone more skilled than you lands on you with a P2020, there is an extremely limited room for those non-deterministic factors to have any influence. I think that's oppositional to the core vision of the game.
 

DantesLink

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,990
After sitting on a 3 win streak record since year 1, I finally broke it and got the 5 win streak medal on my last session. Popped off hard when I got it!!! ...now to probably get stomped the next couple of sessions. XD
 

Salty AF

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,177
Pretty cool - Last night I unexpectedly re-connected with an old gaming buddy from 5 years ago lwhile cueing up for a ranked match. He randomly joined my lobby and was like "Yo! Been awhile!"

He was somebody back in the day that I would play Blackout with and then when Apex dropped he didn't come along but he's fully into it now. We ended running 6 matches and I climbed 450 points on KC which is crazy for me since I suck at that map in ranked.

Anyways, good to have an old friend back in the mix with Apex now.
 

hordak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,575
Anaheim, CA
why do i keep getting stupid teammates that repeatedly ping the enemy when they are knocked? do you think the 28th time really helps? i don't understand people sometimes.