Apple Marketing VP reiterates that they see "iPad and Macs [as] Complimentary devices, Not Competing Devices"

[Tony72495]

iPad Marketing VP: iPad and Mac are Complementary Devices, Not Competing Devices

For her review of the new M4 iPad Pro, The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern spoke with Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac...

www.macrumors.com

He also specifically responds to asks from the community to run Mac apps on an iPad, and seemingly shoots this down by saying that Mac is just made for a way different paradigm of computing.

Might dash hopes for WWDC a bit. I just don't know when this will change. Apple tried this song and dance with the iPod and iPhone for a few years, but eventually they had to give up and realize that most people are just going to buy one or the other. I don't know what the equivalent of that would be for iPad and Macbook in a world where iPad continues to dominate the tablet landscape.

But it also highlights the issues of the iPad as a concept, like yes in a way I agree that my iPad works as a complimentary device to my 14" M3 MBP....but I have an iPad Mini that I store with my laptop bag and can carry it around anywhere, take notes, read books, etc. But if I already have a 14" MBP, in what universe would Apple think I would buy, say, a 13" iPad Pro. Can you really say those 2 are complimentary devices? Can a $1300 tablet and $2000 laptop be complementary devices?

 

[Wrexis]

Can you really say those 2 are complimentary devices? Can a $1300 tablet and $2000 laptop be complementary devices?

Click to shrink...

When a company wants you to buy both, of course you can say it.

 

[CloseTalker]

That's fine, but they need to do something to make iPad OS more feature rich. The running joke of introducing more and more beastly hardware to devices that can utilize it less and less is getting a bit silly.

 

[Darknight]

Of course they need to say that to explain why the iPad being fully capable isn't being fully utilized.

 

[Ouroboros]

My M2 ipad compliments my intel core 2 duo macbook.

iPadOS 17 and Snow Leopard...a match made in heaven.

 

[Orbis]

My iPad does regularly tell me I'm handsome.

 

[Tony72495]

When a company wants you to buy both, of course you can say it.

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I mean I know Apple fans can sometimes be a little delusional with pricing, but in a world where I see 50 posts complaining about inflation and prices every day, can they really expect that right now?

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

I mean I know Apple fans can sometimes be a little delusional with pricing, but in a world where I see 50 posts complaining about inflation and prices every day, can they really expect that right now?

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Apple will happily finance your purchase with an Apple Card if you qualify for it. Folks buying both devices is why Apple will never make any meaningful changes to the limitations of the iPad OS nor will they add touch to Macbooks.

 

[Tony72495]

Apple will happily finance your purchase with an Apple Card if you qualify for it. Folks buying both devices is why Apple will never make any meaningful changes to the limitations of the iPad OS nor will they add touch to Macbooks.

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But how common is that overall? Is there a statistical analysis of what percentage of Macbook buyers also have an iPad? And if so, how many of them have both a high-end Macbook AND a high-end iPad?

Like I could see maybe if Apple saw iPad more as a Chromebook competitor, like that they don't need more capabilities because of that....but most Chromebooks are sub-$400. Even the "nice" Chromebooks from Samsung and stuff are $700 max.

Also maybe I got into Apple card at a bad time but when I signed up about 18 months ago they only gave me $750, and only just a couple months ago doubled that to $1500. I make decent money I'd say, so I have no idea why I got such a low amount. But it means I would not even be able to finance a full iPad Pro with accessories on that card.

 

[beat]

Wack. Under Steve Jobs, Apple would happily eat into their own markets with new products, on the theory that "If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will".

But then again, 14 years in, it doesn't look like anyone is ever going to challenge the iPad anyways.

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

But how common is that overall? Is there a statistical analysis of what percentage of Macbook buyers also have an iPad? And if so, how many of them have both a high-end Macbook AND a high-end iPad?

Like I could see maybe if Apple saw iPad more as a Chromebook competitor, like that they don't need more capabilities because of that....but most Chromebooks are sub-$400. Even the "nice" Chromebooks from Samsung and stuff are $700 max.

Also maybe I got into Apple card at a bad time but when I signed up about 18 months ago they only gave me $750, and only just a couple months ago doubled that to $1500. I make decent money I'd say, so I have no idea why I got such a low amount. But it means I would not even be able to finance a full iPad Pro with accessories on that card.

Click to shrink...

I know several graphic designers who have an iPad Pro and a Macbook Pro. You can use Sidecar and get a Cintiq like experience with it and I'd imagine it's a pretty common use case given the creative types that typically gravitate toward Apple.

The regular iPad as a competitor for Chromebooks makes sense but most Chromebooks in the <$400USD price bracket are pretty junky in terms of build quality and materials since they are most likely intended for the education market and Apple does sell a lot of iPads to schools. I'd consider spending $700 on an iPad but spending that much on a Chromebook is madness.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

You need to buy every one of our devices for the true experience

 

[Tony72495]

I know several graphic designers who have an iPad Pro and a Macbook Pro. You can use Sidecar and get a Cintiq like experience with it and I'd imagine it's a pretty common use case given the creative types that typically gravitate toward Apple.

The regular iPad as a competitor for Chromebooks makes sense but most Chromebooks in the <$400USD price bracket are pretty junky in terms of build quality and materials since they are most likely intended for the education market and Apple does sell a lot of iPads to schools. I'd consider spending $700 on an iPad but spending that much on a Chromebook is madness.

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I worked at a company for ~6-8 months that would do mass configuration for other organizations like schools and businesses, and at least in our area in Wisconsin, Chromebooks are FAR and away more common for schools, the biggest iPad project I saw was actually for a district set of more upmarket private schools.

But most of the standard schools going through us ordered $200 to $250 Chromebooks, discounted to as little as $125 to $175 with mass order discounts. Considering Apple doesn't do discounts like that anymore, minimum an iPad and a half-decent case is going to be at least $375. Want a keyboard, $500+.

Though our company may have been a little biased because we also offered programs for built-in servicing and repairs of Chromebooks where the schools could send them back and forth for free with quick turnaround so they wouldn't have to do their own repairs, though when I was in the process of leaving for a new job they were working on getting Apple certification to do the same thing with iPads.

 

[JigglesBunny]

But how common is that overall? Is there a statistical analysis of what percentage of Macbook buyers also have an iPad? And if so, how many of them have both a high-end Macbook AND a high-end iPad?

Like I could see maybe if Apple saw iPad more as a Chromebook competitor, like that they don't need more capabilities because of that....but most Chromebooks are sub-$400. Even the "nice" Chromebooks from Samsung and stuff are $700 max.

Also maybe I got into Apple card at a bad time but when I signed up about 18 months ago they only gave me $750, and only just a couple months ago doubled that to $1500. I make decent money I'd say, so I have no idea why I got such a low amount. But it means I would not even be able to finance a full iPad Pro with accessories on that card.

Click to shrink...

I can't speak to percentages but I'd wager most folks who are comfortable paying $1,000+ for an iPad Pro are probably entrenched in the Apple ecosystem in a bigger way than the average person who owns an iPad Air to watch Netflix on it.

Hell, I'm one of these people. I have a MacBook, AirPod Pros, an Apple Watch, an iPhone, and an M4 iPad on the way. I would argue I do see them as complementary devices as each one has a defined purpose for me, but I'm also someone whose passionate about technology in general so I'm a bit too much of a niche to really be representative of any major demographic. Even still, my broader point stands.

If you own more than two Apple devices, you'll probably feel comfortable springing for three. If you own three, there's likely a fourth device you'll have some use for. These are the benefits of a totally connected product ecosystem, folks feel encouraged to buy more hardware knowing that it'll connect to the stuff they already own and enhance their experience in some way or another.

 

[NotVeryFriendly]

iPad Marketing VP: iPad and Mac are Complementary Devices, Not Competing Devices

For her review of the new M4 iPad Pro, The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern spoke with Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac...

www.macrumors.com

He also specifically responds to asks from the community to run Mac apps on an iPad, and seemingly shoots this down by saying that Mac is just made for a way different paradigm of computing.

Might dash hopes for WWDC a bit. I just don't know when this will change. Apple tried this song and dance with the iPod and iPhone for a few years, but eventually they had to give up and realize that most people are just going to buy one or the other. I don't know what the equivalent of that would be for iPad and Macbook in a world where iPad continues to dominate the tablet landscape.

But it also highlights the issues of the iPad as a concept, like yes in a way I agree that my iPad works as a complimentary device to my 14" M3 MBP....but I have an iPad Mini that I store with my laptop bag and can carry it around anywhere, take notes, read books, etc. But if I already have a 14" MBP, in what universe would Apple think I would buy, say, a 13" iPad Pro. Can you really say those 2 are complimentary devices? Can a $1300 tablet and $2000 laptop be complementary devices?

Click to shrink...

I don't believe the bolded is true? Although both were on sale simultaneously for a number of years, from the very moment the iPhone was announced it highlighted that it was an iPod ("An iPod, a phone, an internet mobile communicator... these are NOT three separate devices"). This is a very different situation to the way the iPad was and has been positioned in comparison to the Mac. The iPod Touch quickly followed from the release of the iPhone, and wasn't really positioned as a 'complimentary' device in the same way, and even the announcement of the iPod Touch references that it's about bringing the technology the iPod in the iPhone to the 'iPod' range.

This is pretty different to the way Apple has positioned the MacBook and the iPad Pro, where the iPad Pro's marketing has focused heavily on the 'touch' element and emphasises aspects that use the 'touch interface' (such as note-taking, sketching, annotation) and hit on its ability to 'extend' a workflow of a MacBook, while the Macbook's marketing focuses on the more traditional experience.

While I think it's very true that the iPad Pro could run MacOS, even if I think the primary reason to avoid doing so is an unwillingness to have to work around MacOS's design being functional for both keyboard/mouse and touch screen interactive methods, I don't think the positioning of the MacBook and iPad is at all similar to that of the iPhone and iPod.

EDIT:

But how common is that overall? Is there a statistical analysis of what percentage of Macbook buyers also have an iPad? And if so, how many of them have both a high-end Macbook AND a high-end iPad?

Click to shrink...

While I can't speak to statistics at large, my assumption based upon how they're marketing and positioning the device is that the primary use-case for both is probably in creative fields (where a workflow might involve something like e.g. sketching/note-taking on the iPad and passing that to the MacBook) and academic fields particularly for students (where hand-writing notes may be significantly quicker than typing them, especially in subjects that involve some courses in mathematics). The Pencil is such an emphasised point of the iPad Pro that a workflow involving both a MacBook and an iPad Pro is likely to be one where the Pencil plays a significant role.

 

[teruterubozu]

The vanilla ipads are actually very affordable and a great way to enter the Apple ecosystem. But Apple treats ipads like an afterthought and it's hard to get excited about them.

 

[Lizard Wizard]

Macstories has a great article on the limitations of iPadOS. It would be neat to duel boot MacOS when in keyboard mode but we really need some real multitasking and file browser support. The Files app is terrible.

Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn’t Get the Basics Right

Let me cut to the chase: sadly, I don’t have a new iPad Pro to review today on MacStories. I was able to try one in London last week, and, as I wrote, I came away impressed with the hardware. However, I didn’t get a chance to use a new iPad Pro over the past

www.macstories.net

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

The vanilla ipads are actually very affordable and a great way to enter the Apple ecosystem. But Apple treats ipads like an afterthought and it's hard to get excited about them.

Click to shrink...

The regular iPad only needs a spec bump every once in a while. Apple doesn't treat their entry level products nearly as well as their higher end ones. The Mac Mini used to go several years without updates during the Intel days and the iPhone SE sometimes goes several years without an update.

 

[ryan299]

of course they want people To Buy both lol.

I own both and honestly only use my iPad Pro. It's an m1 edition and it's great for me. Not really doing anything crazy that makes me need more than an iPad these days.

I'll probably upgrade in a couple years to a 13 inch iPad Pro with Smart Keyboard. That's more then an air

 

[TheMadTitan]

iPads with M series chips should 100% have a MacOS mode regardless of what they say. Take Samsung's Dex and run with it. Samsung will never be able to completely rival a desktop OS with that mode because of Google restrictions, but Apple doesn't have to worry about that. Get rid of the smallest Macbook, and then leverage the Magic Keyboard. Toss in the desktop mode toggle and eat.

 

[krazen]

I mean, I agree. I think the issue is that if you're going to have the same chips and going to cost at that particular price point, you're going to tailor to the power user and they will want…well power.

I don't mind a separate hyper focused phone/tablet OS, but if you're going to give me that kind of power and make me pay for it, it better make those apps feel like they take advantage of it. Having the same exact chips, effectively same exact price point, but drastically different experiences in apps is the issue. Particularly since the apps are not as good as the desktop versions (intentionally so)

It's like I like IOS Logic Pro, it's fucking fun as a music creative. But if I have to do real work it's not as good as real Logic.

 

[MrKlaw]

I know several graphic designers who have an iPad Pro and a Macbook Pro. You can use Sidecar and get a Cintiq like experience with it and I'd imagine it's a pretty common use case given the creative types that typically gravitate toward Apple.

The regular iPad as a competitor for Chromebooks makes sense but most Chromebooks in the <$400USD price bracket are pretty junky in terms of build quality and materials since they are most likely intended for the education market and Apple does sell a lot of iPads to schools. I'd consider spending $700 on an iPad but spending that much on a Chromebook is madness.

Click to shrink...

for professionals maybe that works and can be justified. But regardless of what Apple calls their products, lots of regular folk buy macbook pros and ipad pros.

for me the ipad pro has replaced a laptop. I have no intention of buying another device as complimentary. If I bought a MBA/MBP I'd scale back the ipad. But I like how the ipad works and fits into what I need so I'd much prefer they let me do more with it, rather than gimp to try and get me to double my spending which won't happen.

I don't need macOS but I'd like Apple to consider more 'desktop' level apps than just video/audio programs - eg office apps. And way better external monitor support

 

[disparate]

Macstories has a great article on the limitations of iPadOS. It would be neat to duel boot MacOS when in keyboard mode but we really need some real multitasking and file browser support. The Files app is terrible.

Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn’t Get the Basics Right

Let me cut to the chase: sadly, I don’t have a new iPad Pro to review today on MacStories. I was able to try one in London last week, and, as I wrote, I came away impressed with the hardware. However, I didn’t get a chance to use a new iPad Pro over the past

www.macstories.net

Click to shrink...

Apple would probably rather put out a hit on someone that even think about letting people use the iPad without being required to go through the app store.

 

[BoondockRiley]

iPad Marketing VP: iPad and Mac are Complementary Devices, Not Competing Devices

For her review of the new M4 iPad Pro, The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern spoke with Tom Boger, Apple's vice president of iPad and Mac...

www.macrumors.com

He also specifically responds to asks from the community to run Mac apps on an iPad, and seemingly shoots this down by saying that Mac is just made for a way different paradigm of computing.

Might dash hopes for WWDC a bit. I just don't know when this will change. Apple tried this song and dance with the iPod and iPhone for a few years, but eventually they had to give up and realize that most people are just going to buy one or the other. I don't know what the equivalent of that would be for iPad and Macbook in a world where iPad continues to dominate the tablet landscape.

But it also highlights the issues of the iPad as a concept, like yes in a way I agree that my iPad works as a complimentary device to my 14" M3 MBP....but I have an iPad Mini that I store with my laptop bag and can carry it around anywhere, take notes, read books, etc. But if I already have a 14" MBP, in what universe would Apple think I would buy, say, a 13" iPad Pro. Can you really say those 2 are complimentary devices? Can a $1300 tablet and $2000 laptop be complementary devices?

Click to shrink...

Hi, purchaser of both the iPad Pro 13" and MacBook Pro 14" here 👋 So I do freelance art and illustration work alongside my regular 9-5 job as an extra source of income (lord knows it's essential these days). I use the iPad Pro pretty much exclusively as a drawing device as for me it just can't be beat for creating digital art and other design work that I do. While there are solutions for this work on the Mac (which is what I used to use) for me it's just completely inferior. So I then have a MacBook Pro as a daily driver for everything else, film editing, word processing, spreadsheets and so on. I don't have the Magic Keyboard, just a Pencil as an accessory for the iPad, for me the Keyboard would be overkill.

Admittedly I do have an iPad Mini as well but that's strictly just for media consumption and travel, the 13" is too big for the other things I use an iPad for. But as an artist I do see the benefit of having both Mac and iPad. Can't speak for the average user though, I think it depends on the person. For example my mom just has an iPad and that does her fine.

 

[Helix]

yeah yeah we get it, you don't wanna put macOS on iPads.

just make iPadOS more powerful then?

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

Apple would probably rather put out a hit on someone that even think about letting people use the iPad without being required to go through the app store.

Click to shrink...

The iPad was recently added to the same EU regulation as the iPhone and will also get third-party app stores.

Apple Confirms iPadOS Will Get Same EU App Changes as iOS This Fall

Apple today confirmed that it will be bringing all of the app ecosystem changes made to iOS in the European Union to iPadOS in the fall. Earlier this...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Klotera]

My Macbook Air complements my iPad Pro... by being able to switch to it because anything more than basic browsing and viewing on an iPad is annoying.

Seriously, I have a 3rd gen iPad Pro 11" with a magic keyboard. I try every so often to use it in place of my Macbook Air, because I do appreciate a 120Hz display over a 60Hz, but it just gets frustrating to use the minute you have to even a tiny bit of multi-tasking. These devices are both running an M1 chip, yet the Macbook Air feels so much more advanced. I can actually utilize all that processing power.

They don't need full MacOS on it, they just need a proper windowed interface. Crazy thing is that Android tablets are such an afterthought that hardly anyone has noticed that Samsung's OneUI for tablets has actually far exceeded iPadOS. If you had an OS like Samsung's tablets, but the hardware and app support that iPadOS has, you'd have a much more useful tablet.

 

[Duane]

You can use Sidecar and get a Cintiq like experience with it and

Click to shrink...

OMG. I totally forgot Sidecar existed, and when it came out, I couldn't use it but have since upgraded both my iPad and MBP. I use Photoshop every day. I can't believe I forgot all about this feature, I'm glad you posted this post yesterday!

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

OMG. I totally forgot Sidecar existed, and when it came out, I couldn't use it but have since upgraded both my iPad and MBP. I use Photoshop every day. I can't believe I forgot all about this feature, I'm glad you posted this post yesterday!

Click to shrink...

I used Sidecar extensively with my iPad Pro 12.9" when I was doing some app development on a 13" Macbook Air. It was such a life saver to have that extra screen real estate for documentation.

 

[Tobor]

But how common is that overall? Is there a statistical analysis of what percentage of Macbook buyers also have an iPad? And if so, how many of them have both a high-end Macbook AND a high-end iPad?

Like I could see maybe if Apple saw iPad more as a Chromebook competitor, like that they don't need more capabilities because of that....but most Chromebooks are sub-$400. Even the "nice" Chromebooks from Samsung and stuff are $700 max.

Also maybe I got into Apple card at a bad time but when I signed up about 18 months ago they only gave me $750, and only just a couple months ago doubled that to $1500. I make decent money I'd say, so I have no idea why I got such a low amount. But it means I would not even be able to finance a full iPad Pro with accessories on that card.

Click to shrink...

According to Apple themselves, the majority of Mac users also own an iPad.

This Joz quote is why macOS will likely never come to the iPad - 9to5Mac

Greg Joswiak recently shared that most Mac customers also own an iPad. What does this mean for the prospect of macOS one day coming to iPad?

9to5mac.com

 

[shorodei]

The iPad was recently added to the same EU regulation as the iPhone and will also get third-party app stores.

Apple Confirms iPadOS Will Get Same EU App Changes as iOS This Fall

Apple today confirmed that it will be bringing all of the app ecosystem changes made to iOS in the European Union to iPadOS in the fall. Earlier this...

www.macrumors.com

Click to shrink...

Not the same as being able to install anything from any source like a Mac, which is obviously what he meant.

 

[oofouchugh]

I know Apple wants us to buy both, and it is nice being able to use them together with Sidecar, but until something crazy new happens that changes the iPad game beyond performance I probably won't be buying an iPad until my current Pro just stops working. M1 is more than enough for the iPadOS stuff I use and perfectly capable of running Sidecar with its current Apple Pencil for when I need to do art tasks.

If they made iPads run MacOS software natively I'd at least buy a new device from them sooner rather than later, but I have zero reason to get a new iPad or MacBook until something drastic happens.

So I'll continue just, not buying Apple devices because the ones I already have work and there is zero reason beyond performance and display tech to upgrade.

 

[Faceless_Caesar]

When my iPad gives up I'm probably going to replace it with the iPad Air or maybe even the normal iPad. I use mine a lot but I don't use any of the "pro features" except for USB-C which isn't even a pro feature anymore.

 

[Alcoremortis]

I'm not super into iPads. I have an older one around somewhere, but I don't even know if it still works because I haven't used it in years. It was a good device for travel, but I've barely gone anywhere since 2020 and haven't encountered much where I would want portability, but my phone would be insufficient.

 

[disparate]

I can get a more powerful desktop experience plugging my phone into a thunderbolt dock than my iPad and it's got me all fucked up

Not the same as being able to install anything from any source like a Mac, which is obviously what he meant.

Click to shrink...

Correct, I hope they improve the PWA situation soon too, Safari is awful for it.

 

[sonnyboy]

I have a 2023 MPB and a 2020 iPad Pro. I don't really see them as competing devices but I can see how they are for some. The iPadOS is the main roadblock to it becoming more than it is.

 

[Infinity Times Two]

Macbooks dont have OLED yet.