[April 17, 2024] IGN: Fallout Official Timeline Confirmed: How the TV Show Fits In With the Games - Todd Howard and Jonathan Nolan confirm timeline

[CrichtonKicks]

Ah ok, hmm maybe I'll give it a shot sometime then. It seemed kinda odd since I don't really remember the games having much that ties it together beyond the setting. I've always sorta kicked them off as a new game rather than a sequel/prequel etc

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Fallout 1/2/NV all have direct links to one another and show the development of California and Nevada over a 100+ years.

Fallout 3 and 4 are more distinct from 1/2/NV because of location but they have their own links to one another. One of the major plot elements and factions of Fallout 4, replicants and the Institute, first appeared in one of the major sidequests in Fallout 3. And the BoS factions in Fallout 3 and 4 are linked.

It's all designed to easily standalone but the links are there for those who are interested.

 

[Dyno]

Yeah, ultimately the show does its own thing utilizing the universe rather than being beholden to the games stories.

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It basically ignores any story from 1, 2 or NV beyond using it as set dressing/lore, it's not really connected to any of those.

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Ah ok. Yeah I think I'll keep it on the list and check it out sometime then. Thanks!

Fallout 1/2/NV all have direct links to one another and show the development of California and Nevada over a 100+ years.

Fallout 3 and 4 are more distinct from 1/2/NV because of location but they have their own links to one another. One of the major plot elements and factions of Fallout 4, replicants and the Institute, first appeared in one of the major sidequests in Fallout 3. And the BoS factions in Fallout 3 and 4 are linked.

It's all designed to easily standalone but the links are there for those who are interested.

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Oh fair enough, I'd never played the first 2 so definitely didn't pick up the links to NV, but also must have missed the ones in 3 and 4, although now you mention it I do kinda remember the Brotherhood showing up in both there. Tbh it may just be the releases are far enough apart that I forget half the details. I have a similar thing with Elder Scrolls tbh where I'll recognise namedrop of other towns and continents but beyond that have typically forgotten a lot of the events

 

[Small Red Boy]

Also re: the timeline I was a bit bothered by the shady sands being destroyed (as a concept and how it doesn't really fit that well with the other games timeline, im) but not reallu deal breaker for me. Althoug I will say that I kind of wish that they would have gone away from the east coast and just set it in the middle of the USA, that way they could have all the factions they want, and play with the lore in a more free way. Not that I am expecting another east coast fallout any time soon, or at all, but I think it would've fitted better.

 

[Nere]

Destroying the NCR and the Caesar's Legion instead of developing these factions was just a dump move.

 

[Hello Snake]

This seems like the same timeline we knew before? Did they change anything?

I did see a twenty-minute video the other day bitching about Shady Sands, which apparently happened in 2277 per the show, but then Todd said it happened after New Vegas, which is 2281. That's the stuff that doesn't line up.

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The board in the show dates the "fall of shady sands" in 2277, the shady sands bomb is listed after that with no year specified.

 

[Dakkon]

I really don't get why people get so upset about the lore, I would get it if this was a series where everything was planned out way in advance they had an actual sacred bible (the Fallout Bible on page 1 tells you not to take it as sacred due to all the contradictions in the lore they have) planned out long in advance, but this is a series where Fallout 2 retcons and contradicts the shit out of Fallout 1 right from the get go because it was never originally meant to be a series and they made changes to make the game more sustainable as a long term property and it's only downhill from there with Fallout Tactics and on. People like to act like Bethesda is constantly ruining the lore but this shit was a mess before they even got to the property, you just kinda calm down and vibe with whatever gets put out.

 

[Camp1nCarl]

I really don't get why people get so upset about the lore, I would get it if this was a series where everything was planned out way in advance they had an actual sacred bible (the Fallout Bible on page 1 tells you not to take it as sacred due to all the contradictions in the lore they have) planned out long in advance, but this is a series where Fallout 2 retcons and contradicts the shit out of Fallout 1 right from the get go because it was never originally meant to be a series and they made changes to make the game more sustainable as a long term property and it's only downhill from there with Fallout Tactics and on. People like to act like Bethesda is constantly ruining the lore but this shit was a mess before they even got to the property, you just kinda calm down and vibe with whatever gets put out.

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Your absolutely right that the games differ and contradict each other in parts, but I also understand those that are interested and invested into it. Nothing wrong with diving into the backstory and lore, particularly in RPG series. I will say I think it's valid for some fans to bring up story choices of the show (like the first two and NV building up the NCR, and then the show sort of hand waving them away as "Oh they are dead and everything they built up in SoCal is gone" supposedly). Is it worth them to get worked up over it, nah in my opinion. But I certainly get it if they are super invested in it, and some of the complaints being hand waived away as "crazy NV fanboys" is a bit reductive IMO.

 

[Dakkon]

Your absolutely right that the games differ and contradict each other in parts, but I also understand those that are interested and invested into it. Nothing wrong with diving into the backstory and lore, particularly in RPG series. I will say I think it's valid for some fans to bring up story choices of the show (like the first two and NV building up the NCR, and then the show sort of hand waving them away as "Oh they are dead and everything they built up in SoCal is gone" supposedly). Is it worth them to get worked up over it, nah in my opinion. But I certainly get it if they are super invested in it, and some of the complaints being hand waived away as "crazy NV fanboys" is a bit reductive IMO.

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I get being invested in lore, I play Final Fantasy XIV, love Fallout lore, and am a Destiny 2 lore nut, but being invested in Fallout lore truly also means you know this series was already a mess before Bethesda and it's kind of dumb to get super upset about contradictions in a series of contradictions. Fallout's lore has never been clean and fully planned out.

(Also, they didn't say the NCR are dead, Shady Sands =/=- all of the NCR, but even if they did both Chris Avellone and Josh Sawyer agreed that the NCR was basically donezo in the Wasteland in the long term, with Chris Avellone even wanting to nuke the NCR in the first place. A lot of this really drama just comes down to people not knowing how to read a timeline chart though, really.)

 

[FF Seraphim]

Destroying the NCR and the Caesar's Legion instead of developing these factions was just a dump move.

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Did they destroy Caesar's Legion? Or did it somehow get integrated into the BoS?

 

[Nessus]

I saw people having a meltdown before I finished watching the series and it sorta negatively impacted my experience cause I kept anticipating a retcon that never came, but then it made several reveals in the final episode even more exhilarating when I realized that retcon never actually happened.

 

[Goldbob]

The brotherhood suddenly having a Rome hard on is kinda sus now that we know civilizations are being destroyed.

Wouldn't be surprising if Arizona got nuked too and most of Caesar's slave army jumped at the chance to join a slightly less psychotic organization

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Did they destroy Caesar's Legion? Or did it somehow get integrated into the BoS?

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They didn't even confirm destroying the NCR. People are just having meltdowns over nothing.

 

[FF Seraphim]

They didn't even confirm destroying the NCR. People are just having meltdowns over nothing.

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I agree. Even if the NCR got destroyed, so what? Something else would come up and take its place. It is the Wasteland, that is what happens.

 

[ThereAreFourNaan]

I agree. Even if the NCR got destroyed, so what? Something else would come up and take its place. It is the Wasteland, that is what happens.

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And although the series is considered canon currently, it can also become non-canon or an alternate timeline or whatever at any point in the future based on the needs of future games. "Oh that only happens in the Cesar's legion aligned FNV timeline lmao".

 

[DeadlyVenom]

And although the series is considered canon currently, it can also become non-canon or an alternate timeline or whatever at any point in the future based on the needs of future games.

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Precisely, as always, fans are more concerned with canon and lore than creatives are.

 

[DoradoWinston]

Meanwhile here is Bethesda shitting on the lore of 1/2/NV, with retcons and characterizations that make zero sense, in favor of trumpeting their games.

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Bruh what 😂

 

[Phellps]

It's great that the show moves the story of the world forward as well, so I'm here for it. Hell, the show could have several seasons before the next game is out, so by all means develop the world lol

 

[DoradoWinston]

Mfs be constantly talking about how war never changes and then be shocked when someone drops another nuke lmao

 

[krakenking189]

Howard: One of the takes that we always have is to approach things very locally when we're doing Fallout. We're careful about saying what's going on in other parts of the world. And we always take this view of, communication is difficult. And look, if you look at the background, the NCR is a wide-ranging sort of organization and group across not just California, but other places. So the show focuses on this period of time and this group here, and that's what we can say right now. But I don't think you've heard the last of the NCR.

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NCR character in season 2?

 

[HMS_Pinafore]

Precisely, as always, fans are more concerned with canon and lore than creatives are.

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That and every fan has their own interpretation of what the lore is.

Like, the fact that there are unironic Ceasers Legion fans, tells my my interpretation of New Vegas is a lot different than other people's.

 

[I KILL PXLS]

I don't think it's spite fueled, I just think it's carelessly bad writing.

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Bruh, there is nothing about this show's writing that anyone can seriously call "careless" without getting in to Cinema Sins level nitpicking.

 

[NCR Ranger]

I never agreed with the people saying they were trying to pretend New Vegas didn't exist due to the chalkboard or whatever, but it still doesn't sit well with me how dirty they did the NCR in season 1. One of their founding cities nuked to oblivion and no real indication that they still exist. We do see some "NCR aligned" people I will call them, but nothing that says if they are just the survivors of Shady Sands trying to survive or part of a still functioning NCR whole. Instead, we get a bunch of Brotherhood stuff when in lore they were practically dead out west. We shall see where they go from here, but I ain't happy with what they did to my favorite faction at this moment in time.

 

[Stibbs]

Its weird because 76 starts in 2102 but canonically its now in 2105

 

[Blackbird]

View: https://twitter.com/AltHistCody/status/1780634221490364765?t=dM_mXCkA2nWwsY6I4sklgg&s=19

nice

 

[L11ghtman]

The quibble is that there's a timeline in the show that says Shady Sands was nuked in 2277, which seems odd for such a significant event to go unremarked upon.

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No it shows consecutive arrows of events and years, eventually reaching Shady Sands and the year 2277, and then an arrow, and then a drawing of a mushroom cloud with no date underneath. The implication being that Shady Sands was nuked sometime after 2277.

 

[L11ghtman]

Ah ok, hmm maybe I'll give it a shot sometime then. It seemed kinda odd since I don't really remember the games having much that ties it together beyond the setting. I've always sorta kicked them off as a new game rather than a sequel/prequel etc

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It's entirely irrelevant to enjoying the games. It's almost absurd that fans care about continuity at all considering the radical aesthetic differences between each entry, including entirely different firearms and armor designs for pre-war US Army kit. The two Bethesda and one Obsidian games make the mistake of occasionally referencing events in the other games, which with fanboys is giving a mouse a cookie. This is hardly the most significant continuity error in fallout canon anyway. All of which can be easily justified with "these are creative works of fiction based in a fictional world with a fictional lore." Theyre not even ever direct sequels. Theyre more like shared universe anthologies made by different people.

I'm not trying to sound too harsh because I get why it's fun to talk lore. I have simply seen too many fans cross the line into frustration and even anger over this, and that's when I gotta call bullshit and go on a little rant like this haha. Please don't assume this is directed at you or anyone else here by the way.

 

[wonzo]

house always wins

 

[UAZ-469]

I never agreed with the people saying they were trying to pretend New Vegas didn't exist due to the chalkboard or whatever, but it still doesn't sit well with me how dirty they did the NCR in season 1. One of their founding cities nuked to oblivion and no real indication that they still exist. We do see some "NCR aligned" people I will call them, but nothing that says if they are just the survivors of Shady Sands trying to survive or part of a still functioning NCR whole. Instead, we get a bunch of Brotherhood stuff when in lore they were practically dead out west. We shall see where they go from here, but I ain't happy with what they did to my favorite faction at this moment in time.

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So they're just shoving in *popular faction* where they can, got it. I don't know why I'd have expected any different, I suppose, given the BGS games. On to something else.

 

[EchoChamber]

I'll just keep thinking that fallout ended with New Vegas.

 

[poptire]

I love New Vegas and also thought the show ruled. But I also don't really care what they change. Shady Sands location is different? OK cool.

 

[Kyougar]

The board in the show dates the "fall of shady sands" in 2277, the shady sands bomb is listed after that with no year specified.

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But How does that fall into line with Maximus in a fridge? He was a little boy when the nuke dropped into shady sands. The show plays 19 years after 2077, so it can't be that further along the timeline or are we thinking that Max is a teenager still?

 

[Dyno]

It's entirely irrelevant to enjoying the games. It's almost absurd that fans care about continuity at all considering the radical aesthetic differences between each entry, including entirely different firearms and armor designs for pre-war US Army kit. The two Bethesda and one Obsidian games make the mistake of occasionally referencing events in the other games, which with fanboys is giving a mouse a cookie. This is hardly the most significant continuity error in fallout canon anyway. All of which can be easily justified with "these are creative works of fiction based in a fictional world with a fictional lore." Theyre not even ever direct sequels. Theyre more like shared universe anthologies made by different people.

I'm not trying to sound too harsh because I get why it's fun to talk lore. I have simply seen too many fans cross the line into frustration and even anger over this, and that's when I gotta call bullshit and go on a little rant like this haha. Please don't assume this is directed at you or anyone else here by the way.

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Fwiw I kinda agree. Some streamer I was watching a few days ago mentioned the show and how it could have tied things from 3 in better and how they expect a season 2 to pull more from NV and tbh, I was kinda just left wondering what they're talking about as they really do feel like only loosely connected games. I guess in a sense I almost consider them halfway to how the FF series is handled except while sharing more in common for setting etc, but largely just being a standalone.

Which given the gap between releases works better for me at least. Keeping track of the continuity would be pretty tough

 

[Hello Snake]

But How does that fall into line with Maximus in a fridge? He was a little boy when the nuke dropped into shady sands. The show plays 19 years after 2077, so it can't be that further along the timeline or are we thinking that Max is a teenager still?

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I don't know about that. I haven't tried to calculate it but I'm assuming it works out.

 

[Leo-Tyrant]

A couple of assumptions people and media could be making:

• Vault-Tec dropping the bombs in the US - Launching it "first" is a scenario they were discussing, but we don't know if they even made it happen, and if they did, it would have been used against China, in order to get their automatic response, not against US directly. Otherwise China would have escaped unscathed.
• NCR being wiped out - Shady Sands no longer exists, but NCR had a lot or reach. So much in fact that by New Vegas they were struggling over the long distances. They are probably still around.

If any of you secretly work for Nolan: show other Power Armor models, even if its the T-45 being used by Howard in an Anchorage flashback, all done in CGI.

 

[C J P]

Man Howard explicitly says the NCR is still around in some form, and that the bombs dropped after New Vegas, and this controversy is still alive? Wtf?

I'm sure there's some sloppy timeline stuff going on here but are people mostly annoyed that an NCR territory got nuked after New Vegas, a game where you can nuke an NCR territory yourself?

 

[BebopCola]

If Ron Pearlman narrates it, it's my Prime Canon. Everything else is fluff

 

[KarmaCow]

specifically, it says "the fall of shady sands" in 2277, with a nuke after that, so I don't know if is a mistake

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It didn't say it was nuked in 2277, it had a whiteboard with a historical timeline, and one of the things was "The Fall of Shady Sands" under 2077, and then an arrow pointing to a mushroom cloud, basically saying that it happened after 2277. More than likely what it is is that the NCR's war with Caesar's Legion started in 2277 and that's what's being described as the beginning of the fall of Shady Sands, ultimately culminating in Hank having the city nuked some time after Fallout New Vegas happened.

It's a bit of an inconsistency and kinda seems like the set designer/director made a mistake and that the arrow is doing quite a bit of heavy lifting as a result, but it is what it is honestly. Personally I just enjoy things as they are rather than worrying about canon and how things fit into a greater picture

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No it shows consecutive arrows of events and years, eventually reaching Shady Sands and the year 2277, and then an arrow, and then a drawing of a mushroom cloud with no date underneath. The implication being that Shady Sands was nuked sometime after 2277.

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With the way the show treats the destruction of Shady Sands as the key event, both for the world and personally for the characters I read that as the fall since there's no date on the nuke but I guess they're going with it happening just after New Vegas. I don't know why they bothered making it so close though since it's already the Fallout story set furthest in the future.

 

[Nairume]

Man Howard explicitly says the NCR is still around in some form, and that the bombs dropped after New Vegas, and this controversy is still alive? Wtf?

I'm sure there's some sloppy timeline stuff going on here but are people mostly annoyed that an NCR territory got nuked after New Vegas, a game where you can nuke an NCR territory yourself?

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There's a little part of me that thinks that, had the show been focused on the east coast and made most of its references based around the east coast factions/lore, then people would be complaining about New Vegas and the other games getting erased by way of being left out.

 

[rjinaz]

There's a little part of me that thinks that, had the show been focused on the east coast and made most of its references based around the east coast factions/lore, then people would be complaining about New Vegas and the other games getting erased by way of being left out.

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Most likely. I am a huge New Vegas fan and I was a bit bummed to see so much negativity coming from fellow fans because when I saw New Vegas on the horizon I almost jumped up from my seat in excitement. I can't imagine sitting there and instead getting angry that New Vegas will likely be ruined by Bethesda or whatever angers them. Like, it's New Vegas on the big screen. GIMME!

 

[I KILL PXLS]

But How does that fall into line with Maximus in a fridge? He was a little boy when the nuke dropped into shady sands. The show plays 19 years after 2077, so it can't be that further along the timeline or are we thinking that Max is a teenager still?

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Not sure how it doesn't fall in line. There's 15 years between New Vegas (2281) and the show (2296). If the nuke is dropped in the same year New Vegas takes place (Todd says it drops shortly after New Vegas), and Maximus is somewhere around 8-10 around when the nuke happens, he would be between 23 and 25 in the show's present. Younger if that kid is younger. The actor is older than that, but he can pass for it.

 

[UAZ-469]

Most likely. I am a huge New Vegas fan and I was a bit bummed to see so much negativity coming from fellow fans because when I saw New Vegas on the horizon I almost jumped up from my seat in excitement. I can't imagine sitting there and instead getting angry that New Vegas will likely be ruined by Bethesda or whatever angers them. Like, it's New Vegas on the big screen. GIMME!

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I'm sure Star Wars fans felt similarly when Disney announced the sequels. At least Disney didn't have a clear track record of writing like Bethesda does. Though they do both specialize in theme parks...

 

[Crushed]

To be honest, I do think this was an honest innocent goof.

Someone on the show production side probably thought NV took place in 2277, either because it takes place so close in time to FO3, or, more likely, because they got the first and second Battles of Hoover Dam mixed up, since the first one was 2277 and the second one was... the ending of NV which the nuking of Shady Sands takes place "right after." So someone handling the art was like, "Oh that battle at the end of New Vegas was 2277, right? So that's when Shady Sands got nuked."

Nobody noticed because it was such a minor thing and given the vitriolic reaction they're not gonna throw anyone under the bus by admitting it was a little mistake.

 

[rjinaz]

I'm sure Star Wars fans felt similarly when Disney announced the sequels. At least Disney didn't have a clear track record of writing like Bethesda does. Though they do both specialize in theme parks...

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I know I didn't. I was excited. Sure the sequel trilogy was a bit of a letdown but I was stoked for more content. But then again I am one of those weirdos that actually likes most of their tv shows. Shrug. I know the last thing I am doing is getting angry over everything Star Wars. It's also a bit different anyway because without New Vegas appearing in this tv show it would likely NEVER be revisited in media again. Not sure the Star Wars comparison is even apt.

 

[I KILL PXLS]

To be honest, I do think this was an honest innocent goof.

Someone on the show production side probably thought NV took place in 2277, either because it takes place so close in time to FO3, or, more likely, because they got the first and second Battles of Hoover Dam mixed up, since the first one was 2277 and the second one was... the ending of NV which the nuking of Shady Sands takes place "right after." So someone handling the art was like, "Oh that battle at the end of New Vegas was 2277, right? So that's when Shady Sands got nuked."

Nobody noticed because it was such a minor thing and given the vitriolic reaction they're not gonna throw anyone under the bus by admitting it was a little mistake.

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I think this is also likely too haha.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

To be honest, I do think this was an honest innocent goof.

Someone on the show production side probably thought NV took place in 2277, either because it takes place so close in time to FO3, or, more likely, because they got the first and second Battles of Hoover Dam mixed up, since the first one was 2277 and the second one was... the ending of NV which the nuking of Shady Sands takes place "right after." So someone handling the art was like, "Oh that battle at the end of New Vegas was 2277, right? So that's when Shady Sands got nuked."

Nobody noticed because it was such a minor thing and given the vitriolic reaction they're not gonna throw anyone under the bus by admitting it was a little mistake.

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It's 100% this. All of the squinting and contorting with "well, it doesn't *technically* say the nuke detonated in 2077" isn't necessary. It's clearly a production mistake. It happens, it genuinely isn't a big deal, but no one on the production end wants to straight out say it for PR reasons so it gets contorted to "Well, there is confusion, but it all works out. Trust us."

 

[a Master Ninja]

So all they'd need to do is go back and change that title card to "224 years later" and the chalkboard to 2281 and everything would line up?

 

[UAZ-469]

I know I didn't. I was excited. Sure the sequel trilogy was a bit of a letdown but I was stoked for more content. But then again I am one of those weirdos that actually likes most of their tv shows. Shrug. I know the last thing I am doing is getting angry over everything Star Wars. It's also a bit different anyway because without New Vegas appearing in this tv show it would likely NEVER be revisited in media again. Not sure the Star Wars comparison is even apt.

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Is New Vegas never being revisited again a bad thing? From my perspective, there will always be more 'content' that will interest me. People will always have ideas of stories to tell. At the same time, companies will always see popular settings as reliable cash flows to harness, and as time goes on they frequently see them as *only* cash flows (e.g. every post-Bungie Halo, the Halo TV show, later Game of Thrones seasons, the Cowboy Bebop remake, the Witcher TV show, the Star Wars sequels, etc). Companies may refuse to fund pitches that don't use popular IPs, which stifles new ideas, and if the end result isn't even that good... what is the point, as a viewer?

Maybe we wouldn't get those other good Star Wars shows later, maybe we would. But why should we be so devoted to IPs that are being managed by people who don't care, leaving us to hope that one out of the many shotgun attempts they make *might* be good? Why should people just cranking the IP money machine, like Howard, be rewarded? Make something new! Star Wars was new, once.

 

[rjinaz]

Is New Vegas never being revisited again a bad thing? From my perspective, there will always be more 'content' that will interest me. People will always have ideas of stories to tell. At the same time, companies will always see popular settings as reliable cash flows to harness, and as time goes on they frequently see them as *only* cash flows (e.g. every post-Bungie Halo, the Halo TV show, later Game of Thrones seasons, the Cowboy Bebop remake, the Witcher TV show, the Star Wars sequels, etc). Companies may refuse to fund pitches that don't use popular IPs, which stifles new ideas, and if the end result isn't even that good... what is the point, as a viewer?

Maybe we wouldn't get those other good Star Wars shows later, maybe we would. But why should we be so devoted to IPs that are being managed by people who don't care, leaving us to hope that one out of the many shotgun attempts they make *might* be good? Why should people just cranking the IP money machine, like Howard, be rewarded? Make something new! Star Wars was new, once.

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Well I guess I would similiarly ask you, is it not ok if people like revisiting media they are familiar with as well as new media? Maybe I want New Vegas revisited and "something new" isn't as important to me as it is you? I would also ask that if New Vegas is revisited and you don't like how it turns out which let's be honest you most likely won't, does it somehow ruin your past experience with the game? Can you choose to not play said game or even pretend it doesn't exist?

It is really just your opinion that Todd Howard doesn't care about the Fallout Franchise or New Vegas or that Disney doesn't care about the Star Wars franchise. I enjoy much of both of the current output even if I agree with some of the current direction.

 

[UAZ-469]

Well I guess I would similiarly ask you, is it not ok if people like revisiting media they are familiar with as well as new media? Maybe I want New Vegas revisited and "something new" isn't as important to me as it is you? I would also ask that if New Vegas is revisited and you don't like how it turns out which let's be honest you most likely won't, does it somehow ruin your past experience with the game? Can you choose to not play said game or even pretend it doesn't exist?

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There is no "ok" or "not ok" in whether one wants to revisit old media. But there is an opportunity cost in producing anything. To me it seems pretty skewed if the choice is made to produce something with a familiar label on it that isn't trying to reach the heights of the thing that made it familiar, or in the same spirit, rather than something new.

From my end, seeing something expanded or added to poorly doesn't retroactively ruin my experience. But if the new thing is a major movie or TV show, then it's hard to ignore--otherwise it wouldn't have been chosen--and it's painful to see this familiar thing mangled. This is selfish, but no more selfish than wanting more major content. If it is made and I think it's crap then I will try to ignore and deal with it, if it is not made then you will move on to something else and deal with it. I suppose I'm not really trying to persuade you at this point, but more explain my perspective.

It is really just your opinion that Todd Howard doesn't care about the Fallout Franchise or New Vegas or that Disney doesn't care about the Star Wars franchise. I enjoy much of both of the current output even if I agree with some of the current direction.

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Maybe it would be better to say I don't think Howard is capable of doing it justice--I do think he cares, but his goals and vision are very far off of mine. I don't think the current output justifies any of it.

I have a harder time saying that for Disney, given the repeated self-reversals on the films. They didn't care enough to have a cohesive story or tone for an IP they had paid massive sums for (it is pretty mind blowing how much potential money they vaporized, but that's their problem). So that's already happened and tainted the entire thing.

At this point they seem to have fumbled their way to competence on some things like Andor. Good, I guess? Is that worth the disaster of the sequel trilogy, where the original trilogy was a flagship that could fire imaginations? For me, no.

 

[Bard]

I just finished watching this and the only thing I can think of is that I really wish they wouldn't have gone in the direction of establishing a canon ending for New Vegas.