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Are all white people racist?
- Thread starter Deleted member 42484
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Whites, but considering they also supported the progessives vs the centrists (especially on the younger side), that doesn't exactly support your claim that they're not out there fighting.
Subconsciously most definitely. Its something I and I am sure others struggle with.
There's a common misunderstanding of racism being a personal sin or vice rather than a systemic issue of white supremacy.
Dude I agree with you on every conceivable level about that. Do not mistake me. I am by no means trying to downplay the level of racial inequality that hasn't flooded this goddamn country as a result of its lopsided and ineffective political system. The way things have been built has allowed systemic racism to flourish for decades upon decades with no end in sight due to the fact that the racist pieces of shit are allowed to continue to elect other racist pieces of shit that in turn prolong the racial inequality of this country. The deck has been stacked against every single person of color in this entire country.
My only problem with the thread is the statement that all white people are racist. That's it. Because I feel like it's unfair given the number of people who are fighting against that racism at all levels. It also insults those very same supporters by labeling them racists despite the things that they do.
I guess this topic is about white racism, but your post makes it sound like nobody but white people can be racist. White supremacy is one of the main constructs in which racism strives. It's definetly not the only one. Just look at how China treats its black population right now.
I said already there ARE true allies that do care, but they are outnumbered by white folks that are evil as fuck, vote for their selfish interests, or just don't care. You also have a system that not only benefits white people, it is ran by them.
Again, another "not ALL white people" take. We all know it isn't literally every one of yall.
The problem I have with this argument is that no one wants to take responsibility for it or at least acknowledge the issue we are getting at. Instead, you're more attracted to the blanket statement and make the same takes cop apologists make when there was a cop thread made almost weekly.
And watch the video!!
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Based on this comment in the OP:
I'm not 100% certain the OP fully understood the video either. This comment here...
...is the whole point of the video. If you agree with this, you agree with the video. But instead we have a thread of people arguing this:
Which the video also discusses/people more worried about being labeled vs fighting against this system.
This thread is another example this is flying over your heads. Racism is never going to go away as you choose to literally do nothing with your privileges other than defend you're one of the good ones.
Pop quiz. When's the last you protested for minorities? Wrote or spoke about how to use your privileges for the marginalized? Helped change the hiring practices at your job? Or even stop your coworkers from saying some lowkey racist stuff? Daily? Sometimes? Never?
If we threw out the question when's the last time you specifically had Black or Brown people over for dinner, could you even answer? Better yet what about your family? I mean you mom, dad, or even grand parents???
Anyway *clap, clap* you all are one of the good ones.
And spare me with that I have a Black friend defense.
Pop quiz. When's the last you protested for minorities? Wrote or spoke about how to use your privileges for the marginalized? Helped change the hiring practices at your job? Or even stop your coworkers from saying some lowkey racist stuff? Daily? Sometimes? Never?
If we threw out the question when's the last time you specifically had Black or Brown people over for dinner, could you even answer? Better yet what about your family? I mean you mom, dad, or even grand parents???
Anyway *clap, clap* you all are one of the good ones.
And spare me with that I have a Black friend defense.
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White people are unconsciously racist all the time because it's what society at large has programmed into us and we don't even realize it half the time.The key things we have to remember is that being racist isn't a binary thing, it's a spectrum, and that we can improve with effort.
Sticking our heads in the sand and declaring we're not racist for [x] reason is ridiculous.
It's like if someone asked me if I was transphobic. Hell yeah I'm transphobic. I am uncomfortable with the thought of dating a trans person even though the question for me is largely academic. I'm much less uncomfortable than I was 10 years ago and much less actively transphobic than I was 10 years ago but I still am transphobic in some ways and I'm still working to get there.
Sticking our heads in the sand and declaring we're not racist for [x] reason is ridiculous.
It's like if someone asked me if I was transphobic. Hell yeah I'm transphobic. I am uncomfortable with the thought of dating a trans person even though the question for me is largely academic. I'm much less uncomfortable than I was 10 years ago and much less actively transphobic than I was 10 years ago but I still am transphobic in some ways and I'm still working to get there.
I actually touched on the 'All people are racist' part in my post. The BIG issue, as the OP pointed out in how he can lessen the issues, is by and large white supremacy is worldwide, and usually leveraged against POC's. Sure we can point out that there's loads of intra-asian bigotry as a random example, but there's nothing even C-L-O-S-E to the scale of white supremacy in the world. It's why you have continuous instability in South America and Africa as the byproduct of colonialism. It's why the blues as a musical genre exists. It's why face recognition technologies have a crazy error rate with black faces. It's why Bollywood (similar to Hollywood) has a focus on specific looking lighter faces even though they are both based in societies with a plethora of skin tones and ethnicities. Hell, even in that intra-asian example if you did a deep dive in pop culture you would see similar color issues beyond the normal racism
To say everyone is biased and by extension racist is true, but also incredibly myopic and often used as a way to disregard the systemic issues (your European example).
It's easy (well, I would hope so) to judge people as individuals and not colors. That wasn't the OP's point, they made it a point to go deeper and as a result we need to talk about the socioeconomic, political, and systemic aspects of bigotry
We all have unconscious bias and prejudice, so in that respect yes.
However, you can find many examples of white people who actively combat and attempt to dismantle racism wherever they can and will do the same as soon as they recognize their own bias. I would not call these people "racist" even if they have some unconscious things to unpick.
Saying that... as white people we are all responsible here. We all benefit from the racist system, and every time we don't take action to dismantle it where we're given an opportunity we perpetuate it.
All of us, every single one of us, needs to actively fight to dismantle this. And that includes listening to people of colour and not just storming ahead and doing what we feel is the right thing, which can sometimes be part of the problem.
Don't get defensive when "white people are racist" and "white privilege" etc... is brought up, if you're actively working against your own bias and prejudice and are doing your best to dismantle racism around you, then you are being an ally. That should tell you all you need to know about YOU. Carry on, you don't need to stand up and be recognized as "not racist", your actions will inform those around you.
However, you can find many examples of white people who actively combat and attempt to dismantle racism wherever they can and will do the same as soon as they recognize their own bias. I would not call these people "racist" even if they have some unconscious things to unpick.
Saying that... as white people we are all responsible here. We all benefit from the racist system, and every time we don't take action to dismantle it where we're given an opportunity we perpetuate it.
All of us, every single one of us, needs to actively fight to dismantle this. And that includes listening to people of colour and not just storming ahead and doing what we feel is the right thing, which can sometimes be part of the problem.
Don't get defensive when "white people are racist" and "white privilege" etc... is brought up, if you're actively working against your own bias and prejudice and are doing your best to dismantle racism around you, then you are being an ally. That should tell you all you need to know about YOU. Carry on, you don't need to stand up and be recognized as "not racist", your actions will inform those around you.
All white people benefit from the racist systems we live and participate in.
It's not enough for white people to insist that they're not racist. We should all be making an effort to be anti-racist, and push back against the racist systems we operate within, and smack down the racist folks in our families/friend circles/work setting/etc.
It's not enough for white people to insist that they're not racist. We should all be making an effort to be anti-racist, and push back against the racist systems we operate within, and smack down the racist folks in our families/friend circles/work setting/etc.
I want to say yes from anectdotal evidence but I tend towards it being a systematic issue. Also you don't have to be a raging alt right asshole to fit the bill. I know I've been guilty of making people feel alienated by treating them differently due to their ethnicity or skin color, in my case by walking on eggshells around a colleague who is a person of color while I very obviously didn't give a shit whether I offended any of my white coworkers with my often brash and erratic behavior. Thankfully I realized it myself and stopped being an idiot. If the fact that someone is a person of color influences the way you talk to them, treat them, behave around them or look at them then you are alienating them and even though you never advocated for your own racial supremacy or insulted them you engaged in racist behavior.
So, watching the video in the OP...
This is a rather America-centric view. Is Spain a white supremacist society? Is France? Is the UK? Is Germany?
One might still answer "yes" to these, and I'll let them argue about that. But I was born and raised in France. I was sheltered and had no concept of race until the age of 15... when I met my black American wife online who introduced these concepts to me. Even then it took a few years for me to really have any decent understanding of what this whole thing is about.
Why? Because over here the concept of "race" is very much shunned. It's even illegal to classify people by race in polls, for instance. I did not meet the concept of race in France itself until we had a philosophy class about it... in high school.
Can one be a racist even without having a clue about what "race" is? The person in the video says that I am a racist because I live in a white supremacist society. But as I said earlier, in France it is less a case of "white supremacy" and more a case of "French supremacy". It's a very colonalist mentality, and ultimately ends up favoring white people (how else are you going to be a "français de souche"?), but it's not directly about race but about French-ness. Ideologies that are directly about race still exist, both because the far-right kept on passing them on in their circle and because with the Internet these ideas are leaking into the minds of French people as well. But overall it's an issue of French-ness, not of white-ness. Don't get me wrong, it's hateful and repulsive, but my point is that it's a different framework entirely from what the person in the video is starting with.
Maybe from an American perspective, white French people are racists because French supremacy necessarily entails white supremacy so it may as well be the same thing. Yet, from a French perspective, white Americans are fools who adopted a non-scientific ideology, who obssess over skin color, and who think that skin color or the % of white blood in one's genes is enough to form a common identity.
Now, putting all this aside... If we keep ourselves to white America, then I do think that nearly all white Americans except the most sheltered are influenced by white supremacist ideas. It's simply impossible to avoid. It's on your news channels, political and social discourses, movies, etc. everyday. America comes off as a very fractured society, and the two-party political system and obssession with culture wars really do not help.
On another note, why does the person in the video go on to say "it doesn't mean they're evil or bad or something"? If you can be classified as "racist" then you are a bad person, full stop. Maybe she realizes she's making an absurd generalization so she tries to soften the blow, but that way she only ends up softening what "racism" means, and making it palatable.
She then goes on to say it's white people's job to end racism. I can agree with that. However, how is it feasible if indeed every white person is a racist? How can a sick person heal themself without a physician? And I bring up the analogy to sickness because she does as well, comparing racism to a mental illness also. If it's not black people's job to cure white people's racism -and- every white person is a racist, then nothing can be done.
She then seems to equate "not accepting that you yourself are a racist" with "not accepting that there is a systematic problem handed down by white people to each other". She also seems to equate "being born in a system that privileges white people" with "accepting and embracing it"... I'm not sure I understand.
She makes a great point after this, though - that racism, as learned behavior, is like how one may suffer from behavioral issues due to being raised in an abusive household, or one may have PTSD due to experiencing horrible things in war. But I must repeat my comment from earlier... who is going to cure this, then? You can't end the vicious circle if indeed every single white person is a racist anyway. And by the way... not every person who was raised in an abusive household, or every person who has seen war, ends up with pathological consequences. And it's those people who can help with ending the vicious circle, because they have a clarity that others who went through the same things may not have. So, likewise, while I agree that it's white people's job to put an end to systematic white supremacy, I think this begins with the white people who indeed are not racist in spite of being raised in an environment that encourages them to be. I think that such people exist. Replace "white supremacy" with "French supremacy" or whatever equivalent ideology in your country puts a class of people above others.
She addresses those who say that they were encouraged by their parents to treat all people equally and so on. She does not believe such a thing actually exists, and even if it does, one would still read books, watch movies, listen to music, etc. that primarily feature white people, and go to school where there are mostly white people, and so on. I think that here this is trying to find an issue to a problem that fundamentally exists in any society. Let's take France as an example again. Most French people are white, so most French media will feature mostly white people, and most French music will be made by white people, and so on. And? What can be done about this? Is it really "white supremacy" that France is mostly white? Is the solution to ending white supremacy (and supremacy of any race really) to make it so that every country has an equal amount of people of every race (which is how there would consistently be media that represents the same thing)? How does one even do this? And this seems to play into racialist ideas, which IMO are simply the breeding ground for full-on racism. So at best it wouldn't root out the problem entirely, it would just turn the clock back a little.
It's true that white people are born into a society that already favors them, and this creates a very good spark for white supremacy and racism, and it's entirely their job to fix this mess. But, I think she goes too far when she essentially says that if you're born into a society that favors white people then you necessarily embrace this fact or are oblivious to it, and you necessarily take upon yourself racism and everything it implies, and so you are necessarily a racist if you are white. I think she realizes there is some absurdity and rhetoric to this, which is why she makes sure to mention that she doesn't mean that all white people are evil or bad just for being racist... but I think this just waters down what "racism" even is.
I think she makes very good points about systematic white supremacy and white people's responsibility to fix it, but they are obscured by weird generalizations and the impression that she herself isn't too clear on her own definition of "racism" and "white supremacy" (which has the obviously unintended consequence of watering them down).
___
To answer the OP: no, not all white people are racist. But all white people are born into a society that favors the supremacy of white people, and this leads the vast majority to either be biased against non-whites or to be outright racist. I would be careful to not equate bias/prejudice with racism, as racism implies racialist ideals as well, and while this may as well be the same thing in a country like America which is obssessed with race and proudly flies the flag of racialism, this isn't necessarily the case in other predominantly white countries.
This is a rather America-centric view. Is Spain a white supremacist society? Is France? Is the UK? Is Germany?
One might still answer "yes" to these, and I'll let them argue about that. But I was born and raised in France. I was sheltered and had no concept of race until the age of 15... when I met my black American wife online who introduced these concepts to me. Even then it took a few years for me to really have any decent understanding of what this whole thing is about.
Why? Because over here the concept of "race" is very much shunned. It's even illegal to classify people by race in polls, for instance. I did not meet the concept of race in France itself until we had a philosophy class about it... in high school.
Can one be a racist even without having a clue about what "race" is? The person in the video says that I am a racist because I live in a white supremacist society. But as I said earlier, in France it is less a case of "white supremacy" and more a case of "French supremacy". It's a very colonalist mentality, and ultimately ends up favoring white people (how else are you going to be a "français de souche"?), but it's not directly about race but about French-ness. Ideologies that are directly about race still exist, both because the far-right kept on passing them on in their circle and because with the Internet these ideas are leaking into the minds of French people as well. But overall it's an issue of French-ness, not of white-ness. Don't get me wrong, it's hateful and repulsive, but my point is that it's a different framework entirely from what the person in the video is starting with.
Maybe from an American perspective, white French people are racists because French supremacy necessarily entails white supremacy so it may as well be the same thing. Yet, from a French perspective, white Americans are fools who adopted a non-scientific ideology, who obssess over skin color, and who think that skin color or the % of white blood in one's genes is enough to form a common identity.
Now, putting all this aside... If we keep ourselves to white America, then I do think that nearly all white Americans except the most sheltered are influenced by white supremacist ideas. It's simply impossible to avoid. It's on your news channels, political and social discourses, movies, etc. everyday. America comes off as a very fractured society, and the two-party political system and obssession with culture wars really do not help.
On another note, why does the person in the video go on to say "it doesn't mean they're evil or bad or something"? If you can be classified as "racist" then you are a bad person, full stop. Maybe she realizes she's making an absurd generalization so she tries to soften the blow, but that way she only ends up softening what "racism" means, and making it palatable.
She then goes on to say it's white people's job to end racism. I can agree with that. However, how is it feasible if indeed every white person is a racist? How can a sick person heal themself without a physician? And I bring up the analogy to sickness because she does as well, comparing racism to a mental illness also. If it's not black people's job to cure white people's racism -and- every white person is a racist, then nothing can be done.
She then seems to equate "not accepting that you yourself are a racist" with "not accepting that there is a systematic problem handed down by white people to each other". She also seems to equate "being born in a system that privileges white people" with "accepting and embracing it"... I'm not sure I understand.
She makes a great point after this, though - that racism, as learned behavior, is like how one may suffer from behavioral issues due to being raised in an abusive household, or one may have PTSD due to experiencing horrible things in war. But I must repeat my comment from earlier... who is going to cure this, then? You can't end the vicious circle if indeed every single white person is a racist anyway. And by the way... not every person who was raised in an abusive household, or every person who has seen war, ends up with pathological consequences. And it's those people who can help with ending the vicious circle, because they have a clarity that others who went through the same things may not have. So, likewise, while I agree that it's white people's job to put an end to systematic white supremacy, I think this begins with the white people who indeed are not racist in spite of being raised in an environment that encourages them to be. I think that such people exist. Replace "white supremacy" with "French supremacy" or whatever equivalent ideology in your country puts a class of people above others.
She addresses those who say that they were encouraged by their parents to treat all people equally and so on. She does not believe such a thing actually exists, and even if it does, one would still read books, watch movies, listen to music, etc. that primarily feature white people, and go to school where there are mostly white people, and so on. I think that here this is trying to find an issue to a problem that fundamentally exists in any society. Let's take France as an example again. Most French people are white, so most French media will feature mostly white people, and most French music will be made by white people, and so on. And? What can be done about this? Is it really "white supremacy" that France is mostly white? Is the solution to ending white supremacy (and supremacy of any race really) to make it so that every country has an equal amount of people of every race (which is how there would consistently be media that represents the same thing)? How does one even do this? And this seems to play into racialist ideas, which IMO are simply the breeding ground for full-on racism. So at best it wouldn't root out the problem entirely, it would just turn the clock back a little.
It's true that white people are born into a society that already favors them, and this creates a very good spark for white supremacy and racism, and it's entirely their job to fix this mess. But, I think she goes too far when she essentially says that if you're born into a society that favors white people then you necessarily embrace this fact or are oblivious to it, and you necessarily take upon yourself racism and everything it implies, and so you are necessarily a racist if you are white. I think she realizes there is some absurdity and rhetoric to this, which is why she makes sure to mention that she doesn't mean that all white people are evil or bad just for being racist... but I think this just waters down what "racism" even is.
I think she makes very good points about systematic white supremacy and white people's responsibility to fix it, but they are obscured by weird generalizations and the impression that she herself isn't too clear on her own definition of "racism" and "white supremacy" (which has the obviously unintended consequence of watering them down).
___
To answer the OP: no, not all white people are racist. But all white people are born into a society that favors the supremacy of white people, and this leads the vast majority to either be biased against non-whites or to be outright racist. I would be careful to not equate bias/prejudice with racism, as racism implies racialist ideals as well, and while this may as well be the same thing in a country like America which is obssessed with race and proudly flies the flag of racialism, this isn't necessarily the case in other predominantly white countries.
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What is it with people and their need to speak for everyone.
My societal background isn't yours. Not every person with a white skin colour grows up the same, has the same cultural background, the same worldview. My famliy consists of people from Germany, Cameroon and Turkey. My best friends, who are like my brothers, are from South Korea and Singapore. I have not an ounce of prejudice against any person based on where they come from. I don't prescribe character traits to people based on what skin colour they were born with. I had that shit happen to myself, and to direct family members.
Society hasn't programmed racism into me. Ever since I was a child I learned to apprechiate different cultures and its people. I am aware of the benefits of being white in my country, I'm also aware how people with obvious different heritage are treated.
I'm not uncomfortable with dating a trans person either. Not in the slightest.
Speak for yourself. Please.
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OP
OP
You're right. I didn't fully understand the video. And I'll agree, my worry about the label clouded the actual point. That's why I made this thread and a lot of the responses have given me new perspective.
The perfect answer to this question.
OP - Go watch how kids play in the kindergarten and that should hopefully answer your question.
Of course, but everything in our society caters to white so many non whites are racist in favor of whites even at a subconscious level. The problem is that whites have made being a racist the same as having "cooties" so even the most racist klan members will not say they are racist.
If a guy who says "freeze nigger" and shoots at a black person thinks he is not a racist I can only imagine what regular whites think about themselves.
If a guy who says "freeze nigger" and shoots at a black person thinks he is not a racist I can only imagine what regular whites think about themselves.
The only thing I care about is that the take "all white people are racist" is idiotic. I don't care who's the author of this opinion. I'm not calling you out, op. Relax.
I wouldn't say racist, I would say racially biased. How can White people like myself not be in particular in America where since I was a kid our culture centered around White people. They were in all the movies, tv shows, games, tv ads. they were our leaders, our presidents, our CEOs. They still mostly are to this day. That and racial bias is in the genetics of all people of all colors really, it's human nature.
The difference to me is how you think. If I have a racially biased thought, I recognize it for what it is, and then I dismiss it. Whereas a racist will allow the thoughts to flourish until it is a belief.
Not every White person is racist no. But in my own experience a hell of a lot of us are unfortunately. The things I hear people say in private, especially my own family.
The difference to me is how you think. If I have a racially biased thought, I recognize it for what it is, and then I dismiss it. Whereas a racist will allow the thoughts to flourish until it is a belief.
Not every White person is racist no. But in my own experience a hell of a lot of us are unfortunately. The things I hear people say in private, especially my own family.
Bullshit.
I am not racist to any 'degree' no matter how much you declare I am. I treat every human equally with respect and dignity, always have always will.
It's this.
Another important point to note is that whites/whatever the class in power is isn't the only ones this affects. That bias seeps into other groups to the point where black people will unconsciously still discriminate against other black people because their society has reinforced that.
I do think something the left needs to get better on is separating the term racist from discrimination/bias. It's ok to call someone out if you think they unconsciously discriminated against someone based on race. We need to hold each other accountable for that to get better. But to immediately declare them a racist just escalates everything and people get defensive instead of wanting to fix their mistake.
After reading this thread, I feel like we need a whole new thread defining racism, prejudice, etc. 13 pages in and the definitions that folks are going by are all over the place.
I think it's a good thing though. Like if you're doing the REAL work, imho you would never say that you aren't racist because you know that you actively have to stay vigilent against subconscious biases always seeping in. Its an easy trap to fall into because even POC's fall into that same trap.
I get if you're at a party and someone throws a drink at you and calls you racist out of the blue being pissed. But on a messageboard forum someone putting that statement up causes a reaction, imho something is there beneath the surface they haven't dealt with. Be it unhealthy ego serving guilt, their own biases (or their own past they haven't made amends for, etc).
It's like if someone said 'Dudes suck', if I find myself riding hard defending that statement odds are I am one of the dudes that suck, lol
God what an unhelpful discussion. People so focused on proving that they are or aren't racist instead of just trying to counteract
I woke up and can't say I'm surprised at how this thread has gone...largely because it was going the same way when I was active. We're at the point now where the only way most people are willing to answer the question is to throw all other races into the mix to more easily absolve the horrible sinking feeling that being a good person is actually a really hard thing to do.
But I'm not going to address all that. My fellow minorities, specifically black folks, have once again done the work that they're not going to be rewarded with. I do want to talk about this silly notion going around because no one seems to have hit on it, and I definitely want to hit on it because I am THAT person.
The notion that you can't say "all" of white people in any context is silly for two reasons, those two reasons being metonymy and heritability.
Let's start with the first one because it's simple: Metonymy is just a fancy way of saying "using an encompassing concept to describe a wide spread phenomenon." And white supremacy- specifically white supremacy, not just "racial prejudice" to you non-Americans who continuously try to distance yourself from this (I see you, you Sassy Sues)- is a wide spread phenomenon.
For example, take the statement "America has an obesity problem." No one is going to really balk at this. Hell, many of you will take this as an opportunity to start ranting about the moral inferiority of the obese.
"America?! You're saying ALL Americans are obese?! You can't say that! I'M skinny!"
This is literally never the line of conversation because people can recognise that the use of "America" is meant to describe how wide-spread the phenomenon. Also, there is a degree of separation people have for their nationality, because it's something you can technically change or not feel as passionately about. Indeed I would say on a US-centric forum that leans left, feeling "American" is understandably not something to be overtly proud of because it carries with it certain connotations of horribleness considering what America continues to do to the world.
But race is different. Race is something that is biological (this is false, but let's go with it); it's something that's, like, apart of you in a way that can't be changed, and yet simultaneously it also has no bearing on your quality as a person. That's why racism is so bad! How can you apply this concept of metonymy to race?!
Easily, because of heritability. Shaun of Shaun and Jen talks about this at length in his episode about The Bell Curve, but if you don't want to watch two hours of video to get to the pertinent bit, here it is:
Heritability is not the passing of traits down between parents and off-spring. It is the rate of occurrence of a trait in any given population. That rate of occurrence can be due to anything, including social factors, and indeed heritability doesn't actually remark on the source for why a trait is the way it is. All it says is "this is a pattern in this population."
For example, if you have five of the same plant, and give all of them equal access to what they need to grow to 10 feet, (food, water, sunlight, etc.) and you see an equal distribution of this trait, tallness hitting 10 feet has 100% heritability. If you were to have taken one of the plants and given it shitty conditions, and it only grows to 5 feet, then heritability drops, not because of the biological potential of that plant to grow, but because of its worse environment.
If you're not a science denier and understand that heritability is a just a thing, and you agree that white supremacy is a world-wide phenomenon, then you actually have very little way of arguing out of the notion that all white people are racist to some degree. That widespread racism is NOT the result of genetic or biological factors, because race as a genetic phenomenon doesn't exist. Race is sociopolitical. So rest easy, white people; you're not born with a hate gene. You didn't literally inherit the sin. Instead, your ingrained dismissiveness of minorities is a result of social conditioning, namely the one that has said for centuries that white people are just better than everyone else just because they're white.
Which is actually great news for you because it means you can be a better person and fix the problem, in largely the same ways we try to tackle obesity as an American phenomenon.
Again, you are raised in this system whether you like it or not. It has colored your perceptions whether you like it or not. To deny this to make yourself feel better is not helping; indeed, it is the reason I still have to do so much work on this left-leaning forum in the first place. You all don't get it, and then inevitably post some nonsense I have to moderate.
And I can hear it now, because conversations about white culture (can we take a moment to recognize the irony of people from markedly different cultures and perspectives can still somehow consider themselves "white?" Huh. Odd how that works) always re-route to "what about the blacks and browns?" I know you're going to ask:
"Are you saying then it's fair for me to start talking about black criminals and smart Asians? These things can be heritable too!"
I'm sure a few of you are salivating at the chance to FINALLY "tell it like it is."
But I sure indeedly am not giving you that green light. You know why? Because you've been trained by white supremacy! Whenever a white person talks about Chicago's violence and they're actually not directly involved in the curtailing of those issues, do you think any black person listening is dumb enough to think that- deep down- this person doesn't think on some level that Chicago's crime is an inevitability because of some inherent genetic deficiency in black people to follow the law? Of course not. You know it, and I know it. And that's the difference.
By way of white supremacy, ethnic minorities possess a remarkable clarity to critique caste-based systems from a sociopolitical context, because to fight white supremacy you inevitably have to start with the notion that it doesn't exist as a scientific principle, if only to embolden your self-worth in a society that is always saying you're worth less than. This clarity is in turn countered by an amazing ignorance of white people to understand this fact because they are the ones on top of the food chain and are by default not victims to its horrors, and without any ability to attain true empathy, they default to what they have been trained to know as does anyone else when trying to comprehend something new. And the default belief of white supremacy is that the ills of the world are the result of non-white barbarians who are uncivilized by nature.
This is all nothing more than a belief system, like religion or traditional politics, which is why I am confident in attacking it this pointedly. It doesn't matter that your ancestors thought it was a nifty idea to tie the belief system to some vague notion of race in order to justify themselves, and that as a result you feel like I'm attacking you because of how you were physically born. You're not oppressed on the basis of whiteness; let's get that out of the way. Indeed, if you think I'm being harsh, you should try taking the advice of Urban Scholar and looking in on a typical dinner a politically-minded black family might have on a Sunday night. Content Warning before you do: It ain't pretty.
But I'm not going to address all that. My fellow minorities, specifically black folks, have once again done the work that they're not going to be rewarded with. I do want to talk about this silly notion going around because no one seems to have hit on it, and I definitely want to hit on it because I am THAT person.
The notion that you can't say "all" of white people in any context is silly for two reasons, those two reasons being metonymy and heritability.
Let's start with the first one because it's simple: Metonymy is just a fancy way of saying "using an encompassing concept to describe a wide spread phenomenon." And white supremacy- specifically white supremacy, not just "racial prejudice" to you non-Americans who continuously try to distance yourself from this (I see you, you Sassy Sues)- is a wide spread phenomenon.
For example, take the statement "America has an obesity problem." No one is going to really balk at this. Hell, many of you will take this as an opportunity to start ranting about the moral inferiority of the obese.
"America?! You're saying ALL Americans are obese?! You can't say that! I'M skinny!"
This is literally never the line of conversation because people can recognise that the use of "America" is meant to describe how wide-spread the phenomenon. Also, there is a degree of separation people have for their nationality, because it's something you can technically change or not feel as passionately about. Indeed I would say on a US-centric forum that leans left, feeling "American" is understandably not something to be overtly proud of because it carries with it certain connotations of horribleness considering what America continues to do to the world.
But race is different. Race is something that is biological (this is false, but let's go with it); it's something that's, like, apart of you in a way that can't be changed, and yet simultaneously it also has no bearing on your quality as a person. That's why racism is so bad! How can you apply this concept of metonymy to race?!
Easily, because of heritability. Shaun of Shaun and Jen talks about this at length in his episode about The Bell Curve, but if you don't want to watch two hours of video to get to the pertinent bit, here it is:
Heritability is not the passing of traits down between parents and off-spring. It is the rate of occurrence of a trait in any given population. That rate of occurrence can be due to anything, including social factors, and indeed heritability doesn't actually remark on the source for why a trait is the way it is. All it says is "this is a pattern in this population."
For example, if you have five of the same plant, and give all of them equal access to what they need to grow to 10 feet, (food, water, sunlight, etc.) and you see an equal distribution of this trait, tallness hitting 10 feet has 100% heritability. If you were to have taken one of the plants and given it shitty conditions, and it only grows to 5 feet, then heritability drops, not because of the biological potential of that plant to grow, but because of its worse environment.
If you're not a science denier and understand that heritability is a just a thing, and you agree that white supremacy is a world-wide phenomenon, then you actually have very little way of arguing out of the notion that all white people are racist to some degree. That widespread racism is NOT the result of genetic or biological factors, because race as a genetic phenomenon doesn't exist. Race is sociopolitical. So rest easy, white people; you're not born with a hate gene. You didn't literally inherit the sin. Instead, your ingrained dismissiveness of minorities is a result of social conditioning, namely the one that has said for centuries that white people are just better than everyone else just because they're white.
Which is actually great news for you because it means you can be a better person and fix the problem, in largely the same ways we try to tackle obesity as an American phenomenon.
Again, you are raised in this system whether you like it or not. It has colored your perceptions whether you like it or not. To deny this to make yourself feel better is not helping; indeed, it is the reason I still have to do so much work on this left-leaning forum in the first place. You all don't get it, and then inevitably post some nonsense I have to moderate.
And I can hear it now, because conversations about white culture (can we take a moment to recognize the irony of people from markedly different cultures and perspectives can still somehow consider themselves "white?" Huh. Odd how that works) always re-route to "what about the blacks and browns?" I know you're going to ask:
"Are you saying then it's fair for me to start talking about black criminals and smart Asians? These things can be heritable too!"
I'm sure a few of you are salivating at the chance to FINALLY "tell it like it is."
But I sure indeedly am not giving you that green light. You know why? Because you've been trained by white supremacy! Whenever a white person talks about Chicago's violence and they're actually not directly involved in the curtailing of those issues, do you think any black person listening is dumb enough to think that- deep down- this person doesn't think on some level that Chicago's crime is an inevitability because of some inherent genetic deficiency in black people to follow the law? Of course not. You know it, and I know it. And that's the difference.
By way of white supremacy, ethnic minorities possess a remarkable clarity to critique caste-based systems from a sociopolitical context, because to fight white supremacy you inevitably have to start with the notion that it doesn't exist as a scientific principle, if only to embolden your self-worth in a society that is always saying you're worth less than. This clarity is in turn countered by an amazing ignorance of white people to understand this fact because they are the ones on top of the food chain and are by default not victims to its horrors, and without any ability to attain true empathy, they default to what they have been trained to know as does anyone else when trying to comprehend something new. And the default belief of white supremacy is that the ills of the world are the result of non-white barbarians who are uncivilized by nature.
This is all nothing more than a belief system, like religion or traditional politics, which is why I am confident in attacking it this pointedly. It doesn't matter that your ancestors thought it was a nifty idea to tie the belief system to some vague notion of race in order to justify themselves, and that as a result you feel like I'm attacking you because of how you were physically born. You're not oppressed on the basis of whiteness; let's get that out of the way. Indeed, if you think I'm being harsh, you should try taking the advice of Urban Scholar and looking in on a typical dinner a politically-minded black family might have on a Sunday night. Content Warning before you do: It ain't pretty.
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God what an unhelpful discussion. People so focused on proving that they are or aren't racist instead of just trying to counteract
She does throw in this caveat at the end:
"The ONLY thing you should be saying to be is that you recognize that you were born into a racist, white supremacist system that imbued you with racist ideals from birth. That you recognize your racism, privilege, and inherent bias and are actively working to unlearn it."
Are you really racist if you've taken the above steps and have unlearned it?
How do you unlearn it? Nobody's completely unlearned it. People who are victimizing by it haven't unlearned it. It's literally a day to day battle unless you live in the cave by yourself (which, I guess in the pandemic, is possible). The best you can hope for is to catch it as it comes in, and even then some make it through the net.
if you think you cured it, then shit is def. getting through the net, lol
We all have ingroup/outgroup bias that our consciousness can barely scratch at the surface of. We'll never be free of it, just need to learn about it educate others and do your best to recognize it. I dunno that language that puts people on the back foot is the best way to do that, but hey it gets their attention.
You don't have a more nuanced take after reading some of the really thoughtful replies in the thread?
Why does it matter so much to people to be recognized as not racist, or to stand up and call out the fact you're not whenever a conversation like this appears?
If you are doing the above, then your actions will inform those around you anyway, and we shouldn't be doing this for the title of "not racist".
One of the main issues here is that whenever the conversation of the conversation of "white people are racist" or "white privilege" is broached, we have countless white folks rushing to defend themselves and making themselves the victim of an injustice... which, given the context, feels pretty fucking selfish to me.
When I hear a person of colour say "white people are racist", it doesn't insult me. It makes me want to look at myself and those around me and figure out the ways that we could do better.
Did you watch the video in the OP? The meaning of the question as asked by this person is rather clear, as she emphasizes several times that she means every single white person.
Well, yeah, exactly. I think "Are all Arabs Muslims?" is also a similar question. Heritability does not excuse the implication that even Arabs who become atheists (for example) are by necessity still inwardly holding onto certain ideals of Islam (if they ever really held onto them at all).
Maybe, but if you're actively catching things, and at a point realize that you're coming up empty handed for longer an longer stretches, then is there a chance that you've effectively de-programmed yourself?
Being called racist is always treated worse than the actual racism. And what's worse is when people don't recognise that they are racist in ways that they may not even be aware of, how can they possibly fix the problem if they don't admit it's there? I know I've had thoughts and opinions that were racist which I had to tackle and only figured out they were racist by listening to poc opinions and looking at myself. I know I still likely have more work to do and need to keep looking at my opinions and actions. Heck, I know I had some serious sexist opinions that I had to work on and I am a woman. If I can be unconsciously bigoted to myself due society's sexism, how can I argue that I don't have bigoted tendencies to a group I'm not a part of when I know society is also racist? And I don't feel comfortable saying I'm not racist when even if they are unconscious bias they have an affect on real poc people and it would be racist actions to them. All I can do is try and be conscious of it and try to do better. If it makes me feel bad for being racist, it's on me to improve myself, not to argue with poc that it somehow doesn't count. Just because I wasn't aware of it and didn't mean harm, doesn't mean shit. I'd rather focus on being better which means admitting the racism and facing it. I know I'm not perfect and will likely screw up but that's not an excuse not to try
Most of em, most of y'all.
Pat yourselves on the back for not saying nigger, listening to kendrick Lamar and saying white privilege exists while you gentrify neighborhoods, avoid POC and silently reap the benefits of a racist system while you discuss how bad it is in your echo chamber of other white people. Most people are woke because it makes them feel good about themselves and they get to say "not me" when somebody calls out some racist shit.
Pat yourselves on the back for not saying nigger, listening to kendrick Lamar and saying white privilege exists while you gentrify neighborhoods, avoid POC and silently reap the benefits of a racist system while you discuss how bad it is in your echo chamber of other white people. Most people are woke because it makes them feel good about themselves and they get to say "not me" when somebody calls out some racist shit.
There are like 100 different concepts all being lumped together under this nebulous term "racism" in this thread, and it isn't doing anyone any good.
This whole debate seems more like an issue of white privilege and unconscious racial prejudices/biases than of holding, even to the smallest extent, the belief that the white race is superior to all other races. We seriously need to make a clear distinction between the two, otherwise we'll just be talking in circles.
This whole debate seems more like an issue of white privilege and unconscious racial prejudices/biases than of holding, even to the smallest extent, the belief that the white race is superior to all other races. We seriously need to make a clear distinction between the two, otherwise we'll just be talking in circles.
I did (the real question is "did most of the white people in this thread watch?") My viewpoint is the same as hers: white supremacy is so pervasive that there every white person has been conditioned by it.
My argument there is to explain to the people in this thread who think they're victims of racism why they're actually not when we say "all white people." Neither me nor the woman in the video believe racism is something that is genetic.
I don't think I'm playing a victim, or trying to defend anything. If a POC wants to say that all white people are racist, that's completely understandable. I'm just answering the question as to whether they all actually are. If I'm told that something I said or did is racist, then I'll be more than happy to listen and change my behavior. Just trying to figure out if it's even possible to not be racist as a white person, and I hope that it is.
It's like saying 'I am 100% mentally sound and healthy at all times, forever', lol. Sometimes you're depressed from a bad breakup, etc.
And the kicker is it would be if racism was just the same sources, it's not. It's ever shifting.
Look at the rise in racist attacks against Asian American's and how it basically boils down to politicians adding the word 'China' in a sentence for the last two months. And those arguments are somewhat legit (chinese food vs chinese virus).
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