Are coding boot camps worth it?

[Thordinson]

I had to take a leave of absence from law school this year due to my father's health failing. I am now a year behind and because my school is great, I lost my conditional scholarships due to the leave of absence. So I've been looking in to different career paths and options as I don't want to take on the massive amount of debt. I've been debating on signing up for a local coding boot camp for UI/UX Design.

How are coding boot camps regarded in the software industry? I know quality of the boot camp will be dependent on the boot camp itself. I just don't want to go through them and not be able to get a job afterward.

 

[Valkyr]

I personally know 2 people who got jobs in tech after taking them. They were in other industries that weren't working out, did the bootcamps, and then got jobs not too long after. This was pre-pandemic fyi.

 

[Pau]

One of my friends did a bootcamp for mobile development. They went from having zero experience in programming to getting a job paying more than $100k USD. Was a year long program, during the pandemic. But they got lucky in that the program didn't require taking on debt... Unfortunately I think that was the last cohort because of the pandemic.

 

[Damaniel]

My issue with boot camps is that the quality varies widely, like you mentioned. Many of these camps, especially the shorter ones, teach specific tools and frameworks instead of deeper concepts, so while it can get your foot in the door as an entry level dev, the lack of deeper understanding of CS concepts will hamper your ability to advance in your career, especially since more senior jobs are almost always going to require a CS degree anyway, and skills/tools become obsolete over time, limiting you to lower end jobs that use your specific toolset. Learning new tools and frameworks isn't too hard if you're willing to put in the effort, but long term advancement is probably still going to require you get a degree at some point (though the college debt probably won't be so crippling if you're making bank from an entry level dev job anyway).

 

[ErichWK]

My best friend did a career change in her later 20s and did a coding bootcamp..then became a programer and moved to san diego. So it seemed to work for her for the positive. It probably just depends where you go for the bootcamp

 

[entremet]

They're good but try to do some informational interviewing. Software Development isn't for everyone.

I know it's the new hot thing, but some people go to these camps and hate the job once they start doing it because they didn't do enough research in the day to day.

 

[Deleted member 4461]

First, I'm sorry that happened to you... I hope things are looking at least a little more positive?

Second, if you're looking for a job in tech, know that software development isn't the only path. Look at positions available across departments; you may find your way in without any engineering background.

 

[Thordinson]

Glad to hear that it has worked for a good number of people.

My issue with boot camps is that the quality varies widely, like you mentioned. Many of these camps, especially the shorter ones, teach specific tools and frameworks instead of deeper concepts, so while it can get your foot in the door as an entry level dev, the lack of deeper understanding of CS concepts will hamper your ability to advance in your career, especially since more senior jobs are almost always going to require a CS degree anyway, and skills/tools become obsolete over time, limiting you to lower end jobs that use your specific toolset. Learning new tools and frameworks isn't too hard if you're willing to put in the effort, but long term advancement is probably still going to require you get a degree at some point (though the college debt probably won't be so crippling if you're making bank from an entry level dev job anyway).

Click to shrink...

Gotcha. Thank you for the insight.

They're good but try to do some informational interviewing. Software Development isn't for everyone.

I know it's the new hot thing, but some people go to these camps and hate the job once they start doing it because they didn't do enough research in the day to day.

Click to shrink...

Will do. I've been slowly researching all of this so I'll definitely be sure to make sure find people to talk to.

First, I'm sorry that happened to you... I hope things are looking at least a little more positive?

Second, if you're looking for a job in tech, know that software development isn't the only path. Look at positions available across departments; you may find your way in without any engineering background.

Click to shrink...

Thank you, friend. Sadly, my father passed away. I'm doing okay right now.

That's true. I'll keep that in mind as well.

 

[CharlesAznable]

I did one. About 4 years later i'm now making about 160K a year. With that in mind I don't know if I can still recommend one. I feel like a lot of my success was just luck. Right place/right time. Also the market for juniors/entry level software developers is fucking brutal atm. And at the entry level if there's a choice between a CS grad and a bootcamper, they'll almost always pick the CS grad.

 

[gaugebozo]

Does anyone have examples of good coding boot camps? I'm looking to get more into tech and have some programming experience but it's not really at a level where I would be hired to program.

 

[Yung Coconut]

I'd suggest learning automation (Selenium/Appium) first. It's a good way to start learning a programming language and you can find a decent paying gig after a few months of learning. Lots of good, cheap courses you can find online (e.g. Udemy) and there is no shortage of web/mobile test automation jobs out there right now.

If coding is something you enjoy you can keep on building your skillset from there.

 

[I Am Captain America]

We get a thread on bootcamps every week now safe to say it shows where the workforce wants to grow in to

 

[Vincent Alexander]

You all who did bootcamps---what specifically were you learning if you don't mind sharing. I assume each one us specific to a coding language?

 

[Deleted member 40853]

I have a CS degree and am a software dev, but have worked with people who switched careers and did the boot camp route before. They were all pretty good at their jobs. So it can work and land you a real job at least from what I've observed.

I would say the main benefit of a CS degree is it probably just looks better on job applications. I think a lot of the more "academic" things you learn with a CS degree can be important but are not really necessary for the day job, and there is a lot to learn about writing and deploying code at a big org that you will not learn about in school. I think in some ways a boot camp could leave you more prepared for work than a CS degree.

I'm definitely of the mind that anyone can learn programming and the only reason it gets presented as this mystifying big brain skill is because people just have zero exposure to it unless they are doing it. I would say you can teach yourself a lot from udemy courses if you want to test the waters before dropping a lot of money on a boot camp.

 

[WonderingRogue]

There are basically two major roles when it comes to developers (caveat that I'm definitely oversimplifying here):

The system architects/software devs that are able to look at a business problem and architect a solution, and then there are the devs that maybe don't have the engineering chops to do that, but can definitely take a specced out solution and implement it well.

Most projects require a few of the former and a lot of the latter.

A Bootcamp can definitely catapult you into a dev level that is in high demand, and then with a few years of some personal growth/learning you can step into those senior dev/architect roles if you want.

 

[MechaMarmaset]

If the specific bootcamp helps place you in a job, then they're worth it. After you have your first job, I don't think people give a shit where you learned to code as long as you've done it professionally for long enough to prove you can do stuff.

 

[Deleted member 40853]

I'd suggest learning automation (Selenium/Appium) first. It's a good way to start learning a programming language and you can find a decent paying gig after a few months of learning. Lots of good, cheap courses you can find online (e.g. Udemy) and there is no shortage of web/mobile test automation jobs out there right now.

If coding is something you enjoy you can keep on building your skillset from there.

Click to shrink...

I would second this and also say that another viable path is to go more into the DevOps and CI/CD side of things and learn stuff like Jenkins, Terraform, AWS, etc. Basically people who code and work with software to build, deploy, and test the applications. AWS especially can be insanely lucrative (and personally I find it a lot of fun).

There is a lot that a software developer can do other than just creating and working on applications.

 

[GYODX]

I would second this and also say that another viable path is to go more into the DevOps and CI/CD side of things and learn stuff like Jenkins, Terraform, AWS, etc. Basically people who code and work with software to build, deploy, and test the applications. AWS especially can be insanely lucrative (and personally I find it a lot of fun).

There is a lot that a software developer can do other than just creating and working on applications.

Click to shrink...

I would argue DevOps has a steeper learning curve. You need to have some serious Linux chops and have a deep understanding of the networking stack. Interviews for DevOps roles are also harder than coding interviews, at least in my experience. That said, it can be satisfying as fuck, and DevOps engineers make more money than developers and also tend to report greater job satisfaction.

 

[AvianAviator]

OP, go here instead:

Your Career in Web Development Starts Here | The Odin Project

The Odin Project empowers aspiring web developers to learn together for free

www.theodinproject.com

It's a 100% free online course made up from free resources all across the web. The course is for full-stack web development only, but it's better than paying a stupid amount of money for the same thing.

 

[nonoriri]

I've heard positive ones about the development bootcamps but less positive things about the ones focused on UX/UI (which makes sense it's less of a hard skill) when it comes to job placement. I've looked into them myself but hesitated because I didn't feel sure of the outcomes, even though I already have work experience in that area.

Most of the people that I know who had success with the software dev stuff did go to local programs that had connections to local companies. I know there are national bootcamps but you might miss out on that highly beneficial feature.

 

[Post Reply]

If the specific bootcamp helps place you in a job, then they're worth it. After you have your first job, I don't think people give a shit where you learned to code as long as you've done it professionally for long enough to prove you can do stuff.

Click to shrink...

I second this sentiment.

I wish I had just gone to one of the reputable bootcamps instead of CS. My first dev job sucked and the work was incredibly uninteresting and not worthwhile and on the same product team I was on, there were quite a few people that went through front-end bootcamps that I talked to who always were excited about the work they were doing and I came to find out later that they all also made more money than me :/

 

[AndyD]

In addition to everyone's comments above, coding camps are not magic bullets. Not everyone can grasp coding or the concepts quickly, and it won't guarantee you a job. Not to mention, even if it does land you a starting job, I'd look at it as a foot in the door, but the deeper concepts will still need to be learned, likely on your own in parallel to working.

 

[Thordinson]

OP, go here instead:

Your Career in Web Development Starts Here | The Odin Project

The Odin Project empowers aspiring web developers to learn together for free

www.theodinproject.com

It's a 100% free online course made up from free resources all across the web. The course is for full-stack web development only, but it's better than paying a stupid amount of money for the same thing.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for this!

The only thing is that, if I do complete their curriculum, I'm not sure how I would go about getting a job with the skills I learned from there. Something a boot camp would help a bit with.

 

[GYODX]

As long as we're sharing courses…

The free full-stack open course by the University of Helsinki is very modern and extremely well-put together. I highly recommend it.

Full stack open

Open online course on JavaScript based modern web development by University of Helsinki and Houston Inc..

fullstackopen.com

 

[butzopower]

I've worked with like 200 developers over the past 10 years and 9/10 I found people coming out of boot camps had a much better idea of what they were doing than someone who got a Masters in CS. Maybe there's selection bias as people hired from bootcamps probably need to demonstrate more skills than someone with a degree (which is a shame really), but still, at least some of them are teaching folks well.

 

[m_shortpants]

Thank you for this!

The only thing is that, if I do complete their curriculum, I'm not sure how I would go about getting a job with the skills I learned from there. Something a boot camp would help a bit with.

Click to shrink...

You're right. The main value of a credible boot camp program is the network effect, which has a HUGE part in landing a job. Many will even allow you to defer payments until you get a job, which is nice.

 

[BWoog]

Can you attend one of these bootcamps knowing relatively nothing about coding?

 

[AvianAviator]

Thank you for this!

The only thing is that, if I do complete their curriculum, I'm not sure how I would go about getting a job with the skills I learned from there. Something a boot camp would help a bit with.

Click to shrink...

The website also has a course for how to handle interviews and get hired.

Getting Hired | The Odin Project

The Odin Project empowers aspiring web developers to learn together for free

www.theodinproject.com

I'm going through these courses right now myself in the hopes of changing careers and they're wonderful. They have an active discord community too.

 

[Yoshimitsu126]

Damn maybe I should get into one because my salary in LA for software is 80k with bonus…

 

[Post Reply]

I've worked with like 200 developers over the past 10 years and 9/10 I found people coming out of boot camps had a much better idea of what they were doing than someone who got a Masters in CS. Maybe there's selection bias as people hired from bootcamps probably need to demonstrate more skills than someone with a degree (which is a shame really), but still, at least some of them are teaching folks well.

Click to shrink...

I think it's as simple as bootcamps provide practical experience and instruction using the modern technologies and tools actually used by working devs and CS undergrad / graduate programs don't.

 

[Kromis]

Can you attend one of these bootcamps knowing relatively nothing about coding?

Click to shrink...

I think you can as long as you keep an open mind, have an actual interest in the field, and are willing to learn. I have two friends with political science and econ degrees and they were able to transition to web development quite nicely. They work hard though. I also have an ex-coworker who went to a for-profit school for game development, didn't get anything out of it, then went to a web dev bootcamp that cost 10K, and came out of it working as a bank teller.

 

[butzopower]

I think it's as simple as bootcamps provide practical experience and instruction using the modern technologies and tools actually used by working devs and CS undergrad / graduate programs don't.

Click to shrink...

I think a big part of it is the feedback people get about the code they write in a boot camp vs the 0 feedback you are going to get in university besides whether or not something works and even then it's tenuous.

 

[Superman00]

I have a CS degree and am a software dev, but have worked with people who switched careers and did the boot camp route before. They were all pretty good at their jobs. So it can work and land you a real job at least from what I've observed.

I would say the main benefit of a CS degree is it probably just looks better on job applications. I think a lot of the more "academic" things you learn with a CS degree can be important but are not really necessary for the day job, and there is a lot to learn about writing and deploying code at a big org that you will not learn about in school. I think in some ways a boot camp could leave you more prepared for work than a CS degree.

I'm definitely of the mind that anyone can learn programming and the only reason it gets presented as this mystifying big brain skill is because people just have zero exposure to it unless they are doing it. I would say you can teach yourself a lot from udemy courses if you want to test the waters before dropping a lot of money on a boot camp.

Click to shrink...

I would have to disagree as a full stack developers. If you're just doing front-end and UI development then you don't really need a CS degree. But if you want to be able to architect a system, flow and optimization, then you need to have knowledge of data structures and their runtime.

 

[entremet]

Can you attend one of these bootcamps knowing relatively nothing about coding?

Click to shrink...

Yeah. You're already ahead. If you're internet savvy, you're doing good.

 

[Post Reply]

I think a big part of it is the feedback people get about the code they write in a boot camp vs the 0 feedback you are going to get in university besides whether or not something works and even then it's tenuous.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that's fair.

 

[III-V]

What kind of career do you see yourself starting, coding is used in a wide variety of fields. What past experience do you have? C? Python? Matlab? etc. Basically start with the end in mind, where do you want to go, then we can decide how to start.

 

[Darkspellmaster]

I'd also inquire at about doing a clas at a local university or community College to see if its for you before you commit. Also look into othere tracks, like Information management.

 

[Superman00]

Yeah, that's fair.

Click to shrink...

The other thing is that CS isn't there to provide a practical experience. It's to provide underlying knowledge of the science of computers. Knowing data structures, their algorithm and runtime, would help in the design of systems. Another thing is the knowledge will help you pick up and understand almost all languages.

 

[iHeartGameDev]

I went to App Academy at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018. One of the best decisions of my life.

I have worked 2 startup jobs, and a corporate job for 3 years before most recently joining another startup. I learn something new every day and love this profession.

It also lead me to learning how to make video games and start a semi-successful youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/iheartgamedev

If you're interested in knowing more about my journey:

 

[Spinluck]

Do TheOdinProject and grind your ass off.

 

[ciD_Vain]

I went to a coding Bootcamp and finished it last year March , just before lockdown. Found a job 2 months later and have been working from home since. Was a Starbucks manager beforehand. My Bootcamp was Hack Reactor. Focused on full-stack with React. Also would do daily toy problems, multiple group projects practicing agile methods, white boarding sessions, mock interviews, and post-graduation career "course" meetups to keep us accountable during the job hunt.

 

[wingkongex]

Do CS50

 

[ohkay]

What technologies would y'all look into nowadays?

I've got a CS degree, but I never actually put my degree to use, so my skills are definitely rusty and I've been looking into boot camps too

 

[The Albatross]

Right now, I'd say yes. I used to be cagier on them, 3+ years ago.

Tech companies are desperate for talent. Most will hire anybody who has any chops, or at least get you in the door. The pandemic + Trump Admin cutting back on skilled labor visas + tech demand + labor shortage has made tech companies desperate for talent, and I think the iron is hot and it's worth striking right now.

Long term I think there's value in broader education beyond just professional job training, and that the job training programs that train workers for a very particular field as less valuable than a rounded education ... But ... obviously there's a cost and time committment there, and if you can get hired *now* then I think it's worth it, even if the price is high.

 

[bill crystals]

You absolutely do not need them - you can learn everything you need to be a professional software dev with just YouTube videos and personal projects (source: that's how I done it). However a bootcamp will probably make the journey a bit less bumpy.

The real thing to understand is that becoming a professional software developer is pretty much worth almost any sum of money haha, it's the greatest job that has ever existed in terms of money:work:life balance.

Anyone who has ever told you to "learn to code" was doing you the biggest favor of your life.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

Do you have an inclination toward programming outside of a coding bootcamp? If so then you'll have a blast and probably get a great job.

But if you don't it probably won't work out. You're signing up for a lifetime of tricky mind problems and boilerplate code. Not to say that isn't the case in law.

App Academy open sourced their curriculum so you could do it for free.

 

[balohna]

A friend of my wife's did it and got a job right away. Has been at it for like 6 or 7 years now. My wife tried it (she was a barista at the time) with no coding experience and decided to drop out. She learned a lot but ultimately felt it wasn't for her. The pace was intense and she was struggling. We got to say bye to a few grand, but at least they refunded a portion of the tuition. I believe they had her pay up front but will then refund based on the number of weeks remaining. Can't remember exact figures but a big part of the expense was definitely the required Macbook, which of course she still has and uses.

She now has a better customer service job. Not 6 figures, but the pay is much more comfortable than a coffee shop and the environment is better too.

Overall I would definitely recommend doing like 6 months of free/cheap programming courses first. See if you even like that kind of thing at all and if it clicks with you.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

Overall I would definitely recommend doing like 6 months of free/cheap programming courses first. See if you even like that kind of thing at all and if it clicks with you.

Click to shrink...

You'll learn quickly if you like or dislike coding this way.

Most coding bootcamps are centered around web development which is a lot of fun because of the short feedback loop between writing your code and being able to see and share your results.

Luckily the world runs on the internet so there are a ton of opportunities in this space alone.

But once you learn web development you have a lot of foundational skills you can use to learn a new area, like iOS or Android development; backend programming; and eventually you'll be able to pursue more difficult areas like hardware or machine learning.

Big world out there with lots of demand and interesting opportunities.

 

[Superman00]

Right now, I'd say yes. I used to be cagier on them, 3+ years ago.

Tech companies are desperate for talent. Most will hire anybody who has any chops, or at least get you in the door. The pandemic + Trump Admin cutting back on skilled labor visas + tech demand + labor shortage has made tech companies desperate for talent, and I think the iron is hot and it's worth striking right now.

Long term I think there's value in broader education beyond just professional job training, and that the job training programs that train workers for a very particular field as less valuable than a rounded education ... But ... obviously there's a cost and time committment there, and if you can get hired *now* then I think it's worth it, even if the price is high.

Click to shrink...

I agree. I have worked for 6 companies, from like tier 1-3. Making 6 figures isn't hard as a SDE. But if you want to make it to tier 1 companies like Amazon, MS, Netflix, and so on, required a much more rounded knowledge. The $200k-$300k+ compensation as an SDE required a lot of abstract knowledge.

 

[Gin & Phonics]

Definitely gonna keep an eye on this thread for myself.