Artist who made a edit of someone elses fanart is copyrighting striking youtube channel and demanding a public apology and money for using the image.

[Kalentan]

So for context, Jesse Cox is a Streamer/Youtuber who runs a Star Wars DnD show. In that show they had begun to use an image he found online of what he assumed was the actual ship layout of a canon ship. He modified it to make it work for their session. Unaware that it was just a fan creation (since again it's a real canon ship). So after multiple sessions of using said image he gets a bunch of copyright strikes done on his videos by the artist who is now threatening to keep the copyright strikes and shut down the channel if he doesn't give a public apology (which he has already expressed on Twitter that he was sorry for using the image) and give him money. Apparently the guy did try to contact him before but through some old email on his unused facebook page rather than his active twitter account or current email.

Here's the thing though...



The artist didn't create the original image, it was a modification of someone else fan art.

So here's an official image of the ship:

The first fan art by Ravendeviant: (This person is not doing the copyright strike)

And the modified version: by Daerevon (This is the one the guy, Daerevon, is claiming copyright of)

So I guess I'm curious whose in the right? While I agree that Daerevon should have been credited, it seems like a position that is a bit extreme considering they also didn't create the original fanart image either. I suppose my question is also what are the rights of someones claim over a fan edit of someone else's fan art? Or is this someone trying to grift money?

Edit: (In case it wasn't further clear)

So there's basically 3 people here.

Ravendeviant makes a fan art of the ship.

Daerevon takes Ravendeviant's art modifies it to show the interior (of which he based on Rebels and concept art from the episode where it showed up).

Daerevon also seemingly is fine with people using it and modifiying it (per the comments on the art's page from 2019)

JesseCox unaware it's fan art, uses Daerevon modified work to use in his Star Wars DnD sessions.

Daerevon then issues copyright strikes on JesseCox's channel for using his art.

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[Stooge]

I mean, the mouse feels like they are the only one who should be able to copyright any of this.

 

[Kalentan]

I mean, the mouse feels like they are the only one who should be able to copyright any of this.

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Which is why it seems like a potential grift, no?

 

[DrForester]

Hire an artist to draw him a top-down view of the ship using the official art. Then use that.

Also, try to identify and credit the designer of the ship originally .

 

[Goldenroad]

I think if you're going to take another artists work and use it in your work, you should compensate said artist. Having said that, if the original fan artist isn't compensating the original artist who's work the fan art is based on, then I don't know that they would have much of a leg to stand on with regards to ownership.

 

[Kalentan]

Hire an artist to draw him a top-down view of the ship using the official art. Then use that.

Also, try to identify and credit the designer of the ship originally .

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I imagine he will, though it doesn't remove the copyright strikes on the account the guy is still using the keep the channel hostage.

The videos using said image have already been deleted.

 

[SirKai]

I'm ridiculously protective and defensive about an artist's right to their work, especially with several creative endeavors of my own frequently shared/copied/posted all over the internet without credit, but the steps taken towards this Jesse Cox character seem a bit extreme. That said, the artist DID still try to reach out to him personally to solve things cordially so... I dunno, it's messy.

 

[Jedi2016]

Apology? Sure. Money? No, not really. It's not his design, and the actual copyright holders (who tend to be multi-billion dollar corporations with a literal army of lawyers) tend to look somewhat down on people trying to make money off their designs.

 

[Kalentan]

I'm ridiculously protective and defensive about an artist's right to their work, especially with several creative endeavors of my own frequently shared/copied/posted all over the internet without credit, but the steps taken towards this Jesse Cox character seem a bit extreme. That said, the artist DID still try to reach out to him personally to solve things cordially so... I dunno, it's messy.

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I'm honestly curious why the artist didn't check out his twitter account and either DM there or use his current email address that is in his bio.

His facebook account (where the guy found said email) isn't even attached to his twitter or his youtube account. So they actually went out of their way to find his old FB page and use the email listed there.

 

[Afrikan]

Imadethis.jpeg

 

[Chromie]

Is this a streamed game? Then eh, do your research next time. People can be dicks. Better to not use anything that isn't created by yourself, paid for, or given permission to use.

 

[s_mirage]

Hold on, let me see if I've got this straight: the person claiming copyright isn't the original artist of the piece, just the person who changed the colours and overlayed a deck plan? Did he have permission to do that from the original artist? If that's the case, IMO that person is a grifter and a hypocrite irrespective of Disney's ownership of the design.

No idea about the legal position though. I'm not a lawyer and AFAIK the situation surrounding transformative works can be tricky.

 

[Odesu]

A YouTuber with as much reach and money as Jesse Cox should probably do better than taking random Images from the Internet to bolster the production value of the show he likely makes a significant amount of money with.

Pay the dude. Not because the law tells you to, but because its the right thing to do.

 

[Kalentan]

Hold on, let me see if I've got this straight: the person claiming copyright isn't the original artist of the piece, just the person who changed the colours and overlayed a deck plan? Did he have permission to do that from the original artist? If that's the case, IMO that person is a grifter and a hypocrite irrespective of Disney's ownership of the design.

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In terms of if the fan artist had permission, he has a "Thanks for the original artist, link here" in the image description but that it.

But yes, the artist who is doing this is the one who changed the colors and overlayed the deck plan, they did not create the original fan art.

Sorry if it wasn't clear!

 

[LookAtMeGo]

How can someone make a copyright strike for an image they copied from someone else?

 

[MrHealthy]

A YouTuber with as much reach and money as Jesse Cox should probably do better than taking random Images from the Internet to bolster the production value of the show he likely makes a significant amount of money with.

Pay the dude. Not because the law tells you to, but because its the right thing to do.

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That dude didn't pay the original artist when he recoloured it and overlayed a deck plan.

 

[Faenix1]

He didn't make the original, and apparently he picks and chooses who he's okay with using it? An apology seems required, but money? Nah.

 

[Kalentan]

How can someone make a copyright strike for an image they copied from someone else?

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Anyone can copyright strike on youtube. Just a few days ago a bunch of years old Bloodborne videos got copyright strikes cause they claimed those videos used music from a video that was just recently posted.

 

[NickatNite]

The artist who did the original work definitely deserves credit, I'll give them that.

But, given that it's fan art of a well-established IP, asking for money is a stretch.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

What did the original original fan art look like?

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Anyone can copyright strike on youtube. Just a few days ago a bunch of years old Bloodborne videos got copyright strikes cause they claimed those videos used music from a video that was just recently posted.

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Well this seems pretty broken if you can lose your channel over some bogus strike.

 

[Kalentan]

What did the original original fan art look like?

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The first image in the post is the official artwork from Disney/Lucasfilm.

The 2nd image is the original fan art.

The 3rd image is the edit of the fan art (2nd image) (this is the one Jesse Cox used).

 

[Deleted member 21709]

The first image in the post is the official artwork from Disney/Lucasfilm.

The 2nd image is the original fan art.

The 3rd image is the edit of the fan art (2nd image) (this is the one Jesse Cox used).

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Sorry, misunderstood.

 

[Kalentan]

Sorry, misunderstood.

Why did Jesse tweet that his computer is dead? Just random bad luck?

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Tripped and spilled coffee which hit the fans and such.

 

[collige]

Going by the spirit of copyright law, I don't think what the streamer did had any harmful effects on the fan artist for a bunch of reasons:
- The modified version of the render is being used for a fuckin' DnD stream and the quality of the map is not really a contributing factor to its overall quality
- Half of the image is covered up by the map anyway
- The fan artist in question is a 3D artist, so one specific render of his model doesn't really affect the value of the 3D model itself. Doubly so when the angle of the render is exactly top down
- bigbangdesignguy.com seems to redirect to a bunch of ads so I'm guessing the website in the watermark is down
- He didn't design the Star Wars ship in the first place

So yeah, I'm going with grifter/asshole and I doubt he would get far in court if they really wanted to fight this.

 

[Kalentan]

Going by the spirit of copyright law, I don't think what the streamer did had any harmful effects on the fan artist for a bunch of reasons:
- The modified version of the render is being used for a fuckin' DnD stream and the quality of the map is not really a contributing factor to its overall quality
- Half of the image is covered up by the map anyway
- The fan artist in question is a 3D artist, so one specific render of his model doesn't really affect the value of the 3D model itself. Doubly so when the angle of the render is exactly top down
- bigbangdesignguy.com seems to redirect to a bunch of ads so I'm guessing the website in the watermark is down
- He didn't design the Star Wars ship in the first place

So yeah, I'm going with grifter/asshole and I doubt he would get far in court if they really wanted to fight this.

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Well do note that the bigbangdesignguy.com person isn't the one doing the copyright, it's the second fan artist, Daerevon

 

[Peebs]

He didn't make the original, and apparently he picks and chooses who he's okay with using it? An apology seems required, but money? Nah.

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Picking and choosing isn't an issue. If you go on the basis that it's his artwork, he can hand out permissions any way he wants to. For example if I made a 3D model of a spaceship, I'd probably be happy if some other amateur-enthusiast used it in their homemade CGI clip. But if a widely-watched monetised stream started using it, I would want payment. It doesn't make him two-faced.

You could take his comment to mean that by default everyone has permission to use it, but once he withdraws it, that's it.

 

[teruterubozu]

Going by the spirit of copyright law, I don't think what the streamer did had any harmful effects on the fan artist for a bunch of reasons:
- The modified version of the render is being used for a fuckin' DnD stream and the quality of the map is not really a contributing factor to its overall quality
- Half of the image is covered up by the map anyway
- The fan artist in question is a 3D artist, so one specific render of his model doesn't really affect the value of the 3D model itself. Doubly so when the angle of the render is exactly top down
- bigbangdesignguy.com seems to redirect to a bunch of ads so I'm guessing the website in the watermark is down
- He didn't design the Star Wars ship in the first place

So yeah, I'm going with grifter/asshole and I doubt he would get far in court if they really wanted to fight this.

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This is really about YouTube strikes. YouTube can shut down your channel at their own ruling. Basically the guy has his channel hostage and demanding payment.

 

[Mendrox]

Well this seems pretty broken if you can lose your channel over some bogus strike.

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Welcome to daily Youtube. Many people have to fight against shitty people that abuse the strike system. Also Youtube won't do shit if you don't know anybody at Youtube or get it out to Twitter.

Picking and choosing isn't an issue. If you go on the basis that it's his artwork, he can hand out permissions any way he wants to. For example if I made a 3D model of a spaceship, I'd probably be happy if some other amateur-enthusiast used it in their homemade CGI clip. But if a widely-watched monetised stream started using it, I would want payment. It doesn't make him two-faced.

You could take his comment to mean that by default everyone has permission to use it, but once he withdraws it, that's it.

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The guy that striked him didn't even draw the model himself that's the kicker.

 

[Kalentan]

Edit my post for clarification, since I think some thought the original fan artist was the one doing the copyright strikes when it's the person who made the modification of said fan art.

 

[siteseer]

i see an enterprise millennium falcon hybrid going in reverse.

 

[dom]

They are both in the wrong here.

 

[teruterubozu]

Edit my post for clarification, since I think some thought the original fan artist was the one doing the copyright strikes when it's the person who made the modification of said fan art.

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Right, but in the end youtube isn't gonna care who originated what. You get 3 strikes your channel is done, end of story. That's why this guy's situation sucks. It's not something you can really fight and get youtube involved. Thousands of channels get shut down for much less petty copyright stuff.

 

[Peebs]

The guy that striked him didn't even draw the model himself that's the kicker.

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I know, that's why I said "If you go on the basis that it's his artwork" (i.e. hypothetical). Probably coulda been clearer. Point is an artist picking and choosing who pays is perfectly valid and shouldn't be a factor to the issue at hand.

 

[Syriel]

I think if you're going to take another artists work and use it in your work, you should compensate said artist. Having said that, if the original fan artist isn't compensating the original artist who's work the fan art is based on, then I don't know that they would have much of a leg to stand on with regards to ownership.

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I imagine he will, though it doesn't remove the copyright strikes on the account the guy is still using the keep the channel hostage.

The videos using said image have already been deleted.

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I'm ridiculously protective and defensive about an artist's right to their work, especially with several creative endeavors of my own frequently shared/copied/posted all over the internet without credit, but the steps taken towards this Jesse Cox character seem a bit extreme. That said, the artist DID still try to reach out to him personally to solve things cordially so... I dunno, it's messy.

Click to shrink...

A YouTuber with as much reach and money as Jesse Cox should probably do better than taking random Images from the Internet to bolster the production value of the show he likely makes a significant amount of money with.

Pay the dude. Not because the law tells you to, but because its the right thing to do.

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It is very likely that the law would see this as a series of derivative works, and not transformative works, which would require the permission of the original copyright holder (likely Lucasfilm, possibly also the creator of the ship if this wasn't a work-for-hire).

Should credit be given? Sure. Payment? Unless all the rights are cleared, then no. It shouldn't be sold.

From the OP, the YouTuber himself further modified the art to make it work with the game he was playing.

This is akin to a Let's Player doing a video of a game with a sprite recolor, and having the creator of the recolor issue a copyright strike.

TBH, if I were in the YT'ers position here, I would counter claim and force the copyright grifter to sue.

 

[Tygre]

Wow. What a shitshow.

Someone of Jesse's means shouldn't just be grabbing random art off the internet and using it without credit. That's shitty.

Someone who recoloured an image of someone else's render of someone else's concept art and added a floorplan shouldn't be in a position to shut down the Youtube channel of a person who uses that recolour as part of a larger work.

All of this is of course sitting at the feet of a 900lb Mouse who could sue everyone involved into the Shadow Realm if it noticed or cared about
them.


Jesse should pay to make this go away quietly, lest the Mouse be roused. The recolorer might be grifting, but they have immeasurably less to lose if this story gets big.

 

[Faddy]

Apparently it seems like the youtube guy re-colored the picture. If they are invested in keeping their channel they should dispute the claim and claim ownership of their own edit.

It is unlikely to escalate further imo since Disney owns the ship art and someone else owns the original fan art.

 

[collige]

Well do note that the bigbangdesignguy.com person isn't the one doing the copyright, it's the second fan artist, Daerevon

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Edit my post for clarification, since I think some thought the original fan artist was the one doing the copyright strikes when it's the person who made the modification of said fan art.

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Ohhh OK. so to summarize:
- Disney designs this ship
- Fan who is a CG artist (Ravendeviant) models the ship, puts renders online
-Daerevon comes up with their own design for the ship internals, and then overlays it on top of Raven's render (with the watermark removed)
-That second image is then used as the basis for the map in the stream

In that case, I think the complaint here is a bit more valid since Daerevon actually came up with the unique design for the map itself and that is valuable to the stream. I thought that the map was made by the streamers themselves. Daerevon still seems like a douche though, so I'm going with "everyone sucks here" now.

This is really about YouTube strikes. YouTube can shut down your channel at their own ruling. Basically the guy has his channel hostage and demanding payment.

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They can, but they largely follow the DMCA for stuff like this which has legal remedies in cases where the validity of a claim is disputed. I doubt anyone is gonna lawyer up over this though.

 

[Kalentan]

In that case, I think the complaint here is a bit more valid since Daerevon actually came up with the unique design for the map itself and that is valuable to the stream. I thought that the map was made by the streamers themselves. Daerevon still seems like a douche though, so I'm going with "everyone sucks here" now.

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Eh, kind of?

This is what he said for the interior:

I did base the Plan on what I did see of the Episode Bloodsisters of the Star Wars Rebels Series, and on the few Concept Arts for the Episode,

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So the layout he made is based on the official thing.

 

[kyle mechlachlan]

DnD guy did a dumb mistake.

Copyright person is being a malicious piece of shit who also stole art, so fuck them.

Youtube enabled all of this to happen with their horrible copyright strike system.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

He didn't make the original, and apparently he picks and chooses who he's okay with using it? An apology seems required, but money? Nah.

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oh damn. i watch mathas once in a whole but I don't think I've heard him drop F bombs lol.

 

[astro]

I don't care what the laws are.

If you take someone else's art, modify it slightly, then say you are "glad someone is using it" to one person... if you copyright strike and try to get money just because another person uses it who has a following, you're a total arse and you deserve fuck all.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Edit: I'm so confused

I wonder how much money is being asked.

 

[Kalentan]

Edit: I'm so confused

I wonder how much money is being asked.

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So there's basically 3 people here.

Ravendeviant makes a fan art of the ship.

Daerevon takes Ravendeviant's art modifies it to show the interior (of which he based on Rebels and concept art from the episode where it showed up).

Daerevon also seemingly is fine with people using it and modifiying it (per the comments on the art's page from 2019)

JesseCox unaware it's fan art, uses Daerevon modified work to use in his Star Wars DnD sessions.

Daerevon then issues copyright strikes on JesseCox's channel for using his art.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

So the guy made a fan art of an existing Star Wars canon ship, and the youtuber used it and now the guy who made the art wants him to pay?

If anyone should be paid, shouldn't it be Disney? So should Disney be issuing copy right strikes?

 

[Kalentan]

So the guy made a fan art of an existing Star Wars canon ship, and the youtuber used it and now the guy who made the art wants him to pay?

If anyone should be paid, shouldn't it be Disney? So should Disney be issuing copy right strikes?

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If you wanna go down that route, yeah. After all it's just fan art. Which is why in this case the guy has basically put them all into hot water by demanding money.

 

[laikalot]

It's been amicably resolved between Jesse and the artist: