• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Lengualo

Member
May 14, 2022
403
UK/Mexico
Great thread! I hope I am not too late to ask my questions.

1, I have worked as a developer in the past but I was never asked to crunch and it baffles me how crunch can lead to a better product. When you work longer hours doesn't the quality of work go down and thus lead to poorer code and design decisions? Is it possible for devs to maintain high standards through crunch time or it is always detrimental to the work?

Well, generally higher stress and pressures leads to poorer quality of output. While in an ideal world quality would come first, games are expensive and launch schedules are tied to a lot of planning. So it's almost just the nature of the beast.

2, There has been a lot of news about abuse of staff in games development companies. How do these abusive people get into management roles and does their presence lead to poorer work being done? I.e. are they any good at their jobs or are they like the Steve Jobs type who just bully others into doing what they themselves are not good at?

This is going to come down to personal experiences, like... a lot. Not every studio is a horrible place to work and different people will have different opinions depending upon their own experiences.

I've also come into contact with the film industry (being an artist), and it can be the same there. I think it's partly down to games being a talent heavy industry. Talent, by its nature, is both a high value and easily exploitable resource. The entertainment industry as a whole is also a honeypot for egos, and people who are trying to prove themselves. This easily leads to abusive environments. It's part of why I started to steer away from the larger studios.

Some of the worst experiences I've had were:

A creative director who thought they were a genius and couldn't take any pushback against their ideas, wouldn't entertain anyone elses ideas, and if anything wasn't working out then the team was doing something wrong, not that their ideas were wrong.

A designer who believed all of their ideas were revolutionary and wouldn't listen to anyone. He would have regular tantrums if his ideas weren't passing. He had worked in a junior role (but within a decision making position) on a really well known title and oh boy, he was on a prove himself mission and thought his experience on this title meant he was better than everyone.
 
Last edited:

dab0ne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
792
Time limits for no game reason.

I remember playing games in the past and missions would have time limits merely for difficulty/padding ( gta 3 comes to mind). Do developers actually play those parts and say "oh man this makes this part of the game so much more enjoyable!!" Or do you guys hate it as much as us?
 

AIan

Member
Oct 20, 2019
4,895
Roughly what percent of a dev team is assigned to curate a game (e.g. fix bugs, bring out patches, etc)? It's a question I've always had.
 

Lengualo

Member
May 14, 2022
403
UK/Mexico
Time limits for no game reason.

I remember playing games in the past and missions would have time limits merely for difficulty/padding ( gta 3 comes to mind). Do developers actually play those parts and say "oh man this makes this part of the game so much more enjoyable!!" Or do you guys hate it as much as us?

Time limits are typically introduced to add challenge rather than pad the content. One problem that can occur is that the people working on a game are better than your average player - they're handling it all the time. If external play testing lacks or there isn't the time or drive to respond to play testing then games can be too challenging.

Another issue many designers can be aware of are players getting through the game without ever really having to challenge themselves and then slating the game as too easy. So particularly challenging points are a deliberate design decision to provide players with walls to overcome.

Bringing these two points together, fairly early in my career we were working on a mobile game. A location around the middle of the game had a difficulty spike, nothing extreme though. We felt that the level was going to be fine for most players, we could all ace it with a little work. When we started play testing with a general public sample, this area was basically impossible for them, and it really threw us. We reduced the difficulty and ran it back and forth with them until they felt it was the right level of challenging but achievable.

Then, when the game launched we started getting some negative feedback that this area was a deliberate wall to buy DLC boosts, it was impossible etc. We had to quickly adjust it in an update to make it even easier. So that can happen too.
 

Katbobo

Member
May 3, 2022
5,431
How much does the length of game dev cycles these days impact you personally in terms of mentality and motivation? I work in research with rapid prototyping so often my work milestones are measured at most a year out. It has meant that I don't get very invested into any given program i'm on, as it's super likely i'll be working on something different in a year or two.

But game dev can have games that take 4+ years to develop. The thought of working on something that long is somewhat scary to me, and investing so much of myself into a project like that. How do you deal with the risk that you might invest literal years into something only to have it end up not being received well?
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,568
I grew up a JRPG player, so alot of game design choices commonly seen in WRPG always irritate me

-Weapon/Armor degredation

Half way through a dungeon, my armor or weapon breaks. I didn't fail a puzzle, i didn't fail to exploit an enemy weakness or misunderstand the combat, i'm just being told to stop what i'm doing and go to a nearby town and have my equipment repaired while naturally playing the game. Why? There doesn't seem to be a lesson to be learned here, no mistake to be corrected, its just irritating me as a player and disrupting the flow of the game.

-Lots of loot, inventory limitations, and weight encumbrance.

I kind of understand the concept of having to carefully choose what you take and what you don't, and i genuinely enjoy inventory management in Resident Evil, but thats typically not how RPGs do it. In RE you occasionally pick up items, each item is important and you sometimes have to make tough decisions or better yet, you shuffle some gear around and get that medicine to fit. In an RPG having every single enemy drop a piece of gear, a piece of junk only good for selling, and maybe something else just leads to me either looting what i can until i'm close to full or ignoring it outright.
 

GameDev

Member
Aug 29, 2018
558
Why do a lot of games not offer customizable HUDs?

Because people who have done UI work winced when they saw this question.

In my experience, UI work is not difficult. It's a very common starting point for new game programmers. What it is though, is surprisingly time consuming.

Unless you want everything to look like a web page with out any CSS applied, you're asking to double the UI budget at a minimum (and that is a very low underestimate).
 

WildArms

Member
Apr 30, 2022
1,202
Hopefully my question is pretty simple. What goes into the decision process on when to show off more of a game that hasn't yet released?

The issue that really bugs me is how early a Japanese game company still announces games before they actually release.

Final Fantasy Versus XIII to Final Fantasy XV (obviously we know now that was development hell)

Granblue Fantasy Relink... Announced 2016

Blue Protocol has been MIA since that game has been announced.

Why can't they just wait until things are more concrete before announcing something rather than set expectations or disappoint by under-delivering or not even delivering at all?
 

PJTierney

Social Media Manager • EA SPORTS WRC
Verified
Mar 28, 2021
3,640
Warwick, UK
Hopefully my question is pretty simple. What goes into the decision process on when to show off more of a game that hasn't yet released?

The issue that really bugs me is how early a Japanese game company still announces games before they actually release.

Final Fantasy Versus XIII to Final Fantasy XV (obviously we know now that was development hell)

Granblue Fantasy Relink... Announced 2016

Blue Protocol has been MIA since that game has been announced.

Why can't they just wait until things are more concrete before announcing something rather than set expectations or disappoint by under-delivering or not even delivering at all?
This is largely down to the publisher and the brand/comms team, and the relationship and alignments they have with the development team.

Before a game is announced, there is typically a plan set out. If we take a normal campaign of 3-6 months that would be something like:
  1. Announce trailer
  2. First gameplay trailer
  3. Features trailer (sometimes this is the first gameplay)
  4. Story trailer and/or trailers about specific headline-grabbing aspects of the game
  5. Launch trailer
Those would be the big ones, and in between those you have media previews, hands-on sessions for creators, reviews etc., along with a bunch of social beats like screenshots, small gameplay clips etc.

Dev team let brand know what's in the pipeline and what parts of the game are locked in design-wise or "in a presentable state" and when they're expected to be ready by. Sometimes brand will request that certain pieces of content be prioritised for key beats in the campaign (for a racing game, you might want the dev team to finish certain cars early because they're the ones that will drive the most hype or be on the cover) but normally it's a case of knowing what's coming up and when is the best time to talk about it.

If everything goes smoothly with the game's development and the game's in a good enough state to show off, and your media team has the time and resources to make all those assets, happy days. If stuff "comes in hot" (happens more often than you think) or the game's development hits a few snags, you have to pivot but normally things go to plan.

That's for a "normal game" with a short news cycle to maximise pre-orders and launch sales.
Games that are announced years in advance, those are trickier.

Some studios do it to make the hiring process easier, as it can be more attractive to know you may be working on Grand Theft Auto 6 instead of "an upcoming AAA project" when you see a job posting for Rockstar Games for example. This is why you see so many "CGI logo reveal" trailers.

Some brands have a big enough following to the point where a game can be 5+ years in the making *and* they can drop 1 trailer a year at E3/Gamescom/TGS to keep the hype train rolling (Final Fantasy is a good example), and then when they're allowed to do pre-orders (roughly 6 months before launch) they turn the wick up and do your traditional multi-beat campaign to cash in on the years of hype.

The tricky thing is that (as this thread has shown) making videogames is hard and things don't always go to plan. If you've already announced your game early that can cause the various issues you mentioned.

  • Maybe a studio isn't confident in the stuff you haven't seen yet and it isn't ready to show off.
  • Maybe the scope of the game has changed drastically and it would be better to wait.
  • Maybe the game's in development hell or has been cancelled.
  • Maybe the game has an important relationship with a first-party and has to wait for their big June show before they can make a reveal.
  • Or maybe the studio feels that the long silence is actually *building* hype so they may as well wait until pre-orders are ready before they make another push.

Every game and studio is different, and there's no definitive template because of that. Even franchises you could set your clock to (like Forza, which would always announce at E3 and release in October, every single year) will mix it up depending on what games they're working on (again looking at Forza, 2 Horizon games have released since the last Motorsport did, and Motorsport fans are on for an almost 6 year wait right now).

Hope that explains things in some way, there's a lot of moving parts and thought that goes into the promotion of games. 🙂
 

WildArms

Member
Apr 30, 2022
1,202
Wow... very thorough and amazing explanation and helps put things more into perspective. Thanks for such a detailed answer!
 

Lengualo

Member
May 14, 2022
403
UK/Mexico
I grew up a JRPG player, so alot of game design choices commonly seen in WRPG always irritate me

I don't think there is a satisfying answer to this question.


-Weapon/Armor degredation

Half way through a dungeon, my armor or weapon breaks. I didn't fail a puzzle, i didn't fail to exploit an enemy weakness or misunderstand the combat, i'm just being told to stop what i'm doing and go to a nearby town and have my equipment repaired while naturally playing the game. Why? There doesn't seem to be a lesson to be learned here, no mistake to be corrected, its just irritating me as a player and disrupting the flow of the game.

There can be several reasons for equipment degradation, some are fine, others not so much.

1. Sometimes It's just for realism
2. To limit powerful equipments use (like a medieval equivalent to ammo availability for that super powerful weapon).
3. If there is extensive usage of a crafting system, sometimes it's to encourage use of the crafting system. Relevancy of crafting systems in particular games are their own problem
4. It can also be to add challenges as the efficiency of equipment degrades, battles become harder - which is functionally similar to MP pools and the likes in JRPG's.

Sometimes though, it's exactly what you probably think it is. It's to pad out gameplay and bring content into large or open worlds whilst loosely satisfying the above 4 things, and it really isn't the best game design.


-Lots of loot, inventory limitations, and weight encumbrance.

This is another matter entirely. There are technical limits to how much inventory a game might want to be storing, so adding limits - be they a hard limit or weight encumbrance - is a perfectly natural thing to do. JRPG's also have inventory limits too.

Inventory limitations are not the problem here though. It's the loot, where a number of different problems can occur, such as:

1. Open Worlds in particular need content to fill into those worlds and this often leads to a lot of junk inventory while you're spending time exploring. I believe this has been discussed already in the thread.

2. Players not engaging with crafting or equipment customisation mechanics leading to a build up of junk in your inventory. If the game wants you to upgrade your equipment, and you're not really engaging with those systems because maybe they're confusing, or a poor use of your time when you can wait it out for something cool later, then obviously you're going to have a loot problem.

3. The game not balancing loot well, leading players to end up with a lot of junk even if they are engaging with crafting or equipment customisation mechanics. Often a result of mob drop rates being overly giving, or giving a lot of junk drops before giving you something good.

4. A disconnect between intended and player behaviour is another, for example; the devs intend for players to sort through chest loot for stuff they want. But players tend to just empty the whole lot.

It's not just WPRG's that have these problems though, Tales of Berseria for example is pretty well known for breaching the 2nd and 3rd problem. The equipment customisation system in that game is kind of confusing and unless you're on the highest difficulties it isn't really necessary to create custom gear that's powerful. Couple that with mobs dropping too many items on a roulette system (where you're mostly getting rubbish, but occasionally get something awesome) and you have a problem.

Atelier games have an issue with it too. Not because they're using bad mechanics but because players start to disengage with certain materials as they progress through the game, but because you don't want players to get the best materials from harvesting points every time, you end up with junk the game intends you to offload to merchants or reduce to gems. But after a point, players get diminishing returns, so the inventory builds up.

What causes it? Usually the developers know the games have these problems but just haven't been given the time to action feedback. Balancing is complex because it has to cover many different types of player, and predict how people will play a game. Also, how a game balances loot has to conform to progression. But, devs have deadlines.
 

Moebius

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,407
Another question.....why don't more devs put in playstation button prompts as an option in their game on pc? There must be a large percentage who prefer playstation controllers on pc like I do.
 

Cameron122

Rescued from SR388
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,289
Texas
The PC game Ultimate Epic Battle Simulator 2 uses the GPU to compute AI stuff for its units, which allows for troop counts in the hundreds of thousands if you have Direct X 11.1 or above, could we see something like that on Series or PS5? I know XS uses a form of direct X 12 but what about PS5? I'd like to see some bigger rpg battles and filled out cities this gen, maybe not in the millions like UEBS2 but anything more than Skyrim's civil war would be nice
Im on the Creation Engine defense force btw
 

Manta_Breh

Member
May 16, 2018
2,548
Not sure if this question applied to you because it's more toward art/design.

Is there a process to how artists come up with like crazy, outlandish, out of this world, original designs?

Bloodborne for instance has some of the best and freakish/scary looking enemy designs ... How do artists even come up with those in their head and start to draw them lol .. is there a lot of acid hits being taken in the artists corner or something lol.

Also how do artworks get chosen for the final game, like enemy designs and stuff... Does a higher up design or does everyone come together to vote or does the artist just provide his best work and everyone rolls with it?

And lastly, does some designs get toned down/made simpler because even though it looks super cool, it might be hard to animate within the game or something of that makes sense
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
34,432
Another question.....why don't more devs put in playstation button prompts as an option in their game on pc? There must be a large percentage who prefer playstation controllers on pc like I do.
As a fellow PS controller user, that's a really good question, especially considering that in my experience, indie games are much better at supporting the DS prompts than AAA games are.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,875
Another question.....why don't more devs put in playstation button prompts as an option in their game on pc? There must be a large percentage who prefer playstation controllers on pc like I do.

During the days of PS4, Sony did not provide native support for their controllers on PC, and players often had to install third party apps and drivers to make them work. Due to this requirement, PS4 controllers were really not seen as an official thing on PC.

Not sure if things have changed now and if the PS5 contollers are a simple plug-and-play. But at least the above was the case during the PS4 days.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,875
And lastly, does some designs get toned down/made simpler because even though it looks super cool, it might be hard to animate within the game or something of that makes sense

Yes, this happens all the time. You need to keep design, art, audio, vfx, animation, tech and quality all in sync. If some crafts start pulling forward too much, that would add more scope and more work to the rest of the crafts, scope that they may not be able to afford to handle as they may have other work that they would need to also do.

Cuts happen all the time and that's a good thing for everyone involved.
 

THANKS

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 22, 2018
1,375
Also how do artworks get chosen for the final game, like enemy designs and stuff... Does a higher up design or does everyone come together to vote or does the artist just provide his best work and everyone rolls with it?

And lastly, does some designs get toned down/made simpler because even though it looks super cool, it might be hard to animate within the game or something of that makes sense

Quick answer to these two:
Concept artist does a bunch of variations. Art Director, Art Lead and Creative Director pick a direction based on initial sketches. Narrative Director probably involved too. Then a final look is worked on until happy with it in 2d. Then turned into a game model by 3D Artist. More feedback. Then iteration based on tech, bugs or in game feedback.

Somethings that I've seen cause a character to change:
- cool cloak/hood doesn't look good in game or constantly clips
- hairstyle doesn't look good in engine or with hair tech
- character body shape changed due to technical animation constraints - likely to happen with very overweight characters
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,581
This is something I've always wondered about and I have a pretty good idea why this is the case, but getting clarification on this would be great. In a game like Doom or Doom Eternal, after you kill an enemy, their corpses don't remain on the ground. They all disappear. This happens in other games as well. I know - sort of silly observation, but for me, it sort of ruins the immersion. In the old Doom's on PC, the corpses remained on the ground and would not disappear.

I'm assuming the reason for this is to free up system resources, so that the frame rate can be kept high and doesn't get bogged down by the amount of dead corpses in a game. Is that correct? :)
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
9,875
I'm assuming the reason for this is to free up system resources, so that the frame rate can be kept high and doesn't get bogged down by the amount of dead corpses in a game. Is that correct? :)

Two things, usually done for performance reasons, but also can be done for gameplay reasons.

* Performance reasons should be obvious, everything that is added into a level raises the memory (RAM), rendering (GPU) and simulation (CPU) requirements for that level, obviously different depending on the game. The more corpses are spawned / preserved, the more memory the game needs to use to keep track of those, the more the GPU needs to render, the more the CPU needs to simulate (if they have some active ragdoll / physics).

* Gameplay reasons, to keep the play spaces clean and more readable, to not ruin movement (if corpses have active ragdolls), and similar.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,581
Two things, usually done for performance reasons, but also can be done for gameplay reasons.

* Performance reasons should be obvious, everything that is added into a level raises the memory (RAM), rendering (GPU) and simulation (CPU) requirements for that level, obviously different depending on the game. The more corpses are spawned / preserved, the more memory the game needs to use to keep track of those, the more the GPU needs to render, the more the CPU needs to simulate (if they have some active ragdoll / physics).

* Gameplay reasons, to keep the play spaces clean and more readable, to not ruin movement (if corpses have active ragdolls), and similar.

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation! :)