Have any marketers ever anonymously confessed this before? I mean, I'd believe it, I'm just interested in reading their individual remarks.
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Assassin's Creed and female representation
- Thread starter Persephone
- Start date
I see Ubisoft once again erased the female character in their marketing of the viking game.
Literally nowhere to be seen in the reveal.
Even in their spreadsheet overview of the editions of the game we only get like a small statue image whereas the dude gets fancy artwork across 5 banners:
Do people realize how sexist this is? Both that male consumers think like this and that Ubisoft thinks like this?
Literally nowhere to be seen in the reveal.
Even in their spreadsheet overview of the editions of the game we only get like a small statue image whereas the dude gets fancy artwork across 5 banners:
Do people realize how sexist this is? Both that male consumers think like this and that Ubisoft thinks like this?
You would also think it's counter-productive as a marketing strategy - because they are basically not featuring the female protag in their marketing strategy you actually have to look at third party info (I think I found it in a eurogamer article) rhat you actually have a choice to play a female protag at all, whic means you need to know there's a possibility of it to look up, otherwise from the marketing you'd think the protag was only a buff bearded dude. It's not even on the game's description on the Ubisoft website.But I bet they'll take it as a reason not to have a sole female protag if not many players select female protag even if they haven't marketed that there even is a female protag.I see Ubisoft once again erased the female character in their marketing of the viking game.
Literally nowhere to be seen in the reveal.
Even in their spreadsheet overview of the editions of the game we only get like a small statue image whereas the dude gets fancy artwork across 5 banners:
Do people realize how sexist this is? Both that male consumers think like this and that Ubisoft thinks like this?
Like the choice to do endless fetch quests that have no impact on the story or character development. Ubisoft is known for terrorizing games with such based features.
I have seen alot of angry comments already about them not advertising female Eivor. Surely Ubi must have seen this coming?
Why can't they advertise her? Why did we only get two things (a screenshot and a statue) It's beyond me.
Why can't they advertise her? Why did we only get two things (a screenshot and a statue) It's beyond me.
Exactly this. Ubisoft designs games by focus groups, questionaires and comittee's. If they see that the demographic wants to play as male they will put that in their game. If they see it sells less when only a woman is playable, they will make sure a male character is also playable.
Its pathetic and its saddening.
Because focus tests indicated that two third of players chose Alexios
Ubisoft keeps track of basic player choices and they have said roughly 2/3'ds of players choose Alexios, and thats in a game where a ton of people said Kassandra was the better/funner character. That happens over and over again, similar stats are for Mass Effect, Dragon's Age, etc, etc. Something like 82% of players chose a male Shepard in Mass Effect 3.
Assassin's Creed Odyssey Director Reveals How Many Players Picked Alexios
Assassin's Creed Odyssey director Scott Phillips reveals how many players of the action RPG chose the protagonist Alexios and how many chose the protagonist Kassandra.
gamerant.com
As it stands, the player usage stats indicate that the player divide between the two protagonists is "two-third Alexios" and "one-third Kassandra." Considering that Kassandra is the canon protagonist, one can definitely understand Phillips' surprise.
Its like polling, people will tell you one thing but when they actually get down to make real choices they do what they prefer. Marketing is about figuring out what people really do, not what they say they will do.
So you think Witcher 3 would have been better if it had the choice to play as a female witcher?
No, Witcher 3 is good because it has a clear defined main character which has its hooks in the story and people react to the character in a realistic manner.
As the op points out, with two interswappable characters this can never be.
So you're saying Odyssey would have been a better game if Ubisoft stuck with only Kassandra and not putting Alexios in to appease those who couldn't fathom playing as a woman in their "historically accurate" videogame?
It could absolutely have been a better game if they stuck with one protagonist. Either Kassandra or Alexios.
I definitely want more games that have exclusively female characters. Write a story with a female protagonist in mind. If AC went back to having only one gender for the protagonist, I expect it'll probably just be a guy again though.
Honestly, there's something about playing a female Assassin or any female character that I find so empowering.
AC: Odyssey felt really good in that department. It also reminds me that playing Femshep in Mass Effect is such a wonderful experience.
More of that would be great, yes please.
AC: Odyssey felt really good in that department. It also reminds me that playing Femshep in Mass Effect is such a wonderful experience.
More of that would be great, yes please.
I think having the option between two protagonists (male and female) should be the standard going forward. Even though it's a bit more work, it makes your game much more accessible and can add a variety of replay value.
As far as the marketing, I understand why Ubisoft chose to not show the female version of Eivor, but I don't agree with it. At all. You can't succumb to the trolls, you have to keep fighting against them.
As far as the marketing, I understand why Ubisoft chose to not show the female version of Eivor, but I don't agree with it. At all. You can't succumb to the trolls, you have to keep fighting against them.
What you're saying is wrong. It all depends on how each experience is handled. Then it is also opinion. Some people will like the male playthrough and some the female.
One experience will be superior if the developer was bad and simply created one experience and copy paste the other in. But if they put the effort in both will be on par.
2/3 of players picked Alexios. I'm even pretty sure the default character choice when selecting between the two was Kassandra. When it comes to massive AAA games where every decision is focused tested and researched to maximize profits, even a 10% difference in sales and revenue is unacceptable for a lot of shareholders.
Arguably its the driving issue with capitalism. Business and marketing dilutes creative, innovative, and progressive ideas. At best, you can have companies like Naughty Dog or Guerrilla Games that are willing to push for more diverse representation, but even those companies had to toe to company line until they could build up enough influence and reputation to actually push those changes through, and those are just for first party studies. I can't imagine how draining it would be working for a third party company like Ubisoft whose literally homogenized their games both gameplay wise and creative wise to the the point where it completely backfired with Breakpoint.
I just want AC to go back to having one protagonist, whether it's a male or female. I feel like we will never have character development as good as the Altair and Ezio days with the current system.
Its sad that I consider myself a huge AC fan and had to google what the hell the names were of the protagonists in Syndicate and even Odyssey. I know I will enjoy Valhalla, but I guarantee that in 1-2 years after release I will be asking myself "What was the guy's name?" if I play as the female and vice versa.
Its sad that I consider myself a huge AC fan and had to google what the hell the names were of the protagonists in Syndicate and even Odyssey. I know I will enjoy Valhalla, but I guarantee that in 1-2 years after release I will be asking myself "What was the guy's name?" if I play as the female and vice versa.
I recently replayed the game and it defaulted to Alexios for me. I was actually surprised by that, because I thought it was Kassandra as well.
Edit: That siad, I often fiddle with the analog sticks in cutscenes and the like, so maybe the pointer ended up on Alexios because of it.
No, what I am saying is not wrong.
What I am saying is that if you create one character instead of two, you can put more time and effort into that one character, than you can with two.
That makes sense doesnt it?
As long as we have a choice it's all good. Some prefer to play as a bearded man and that's fine, same goes for those who love their female characters.
I played as Alexios in Odyssey and I just can't describe my feeling once I've found out that Deimos is actually my sister. I'm a brother in real life and it was really special trying to get her back to the family.
I played as Alexios in Odyssey and I just can't describe my feeling once I've found out that Deimos is actually my sister. I'm a brother in real life and it was really special trying to get her back to the family.
I don't get why some people argue so hard against this thought, as if a female-only protagonist means something is being lost for them. Everyone loves Horizon, Control, Life is Strange, etc. and no one was mad at those games for the MC's being female or had dumbass arguments like "company Directors are more commonly men so you should play as a man in Control."
AC is heavily story-driven and creating an original character and writing around them is paramount in making story heavy games memorable. Kudos to Ubi and their representation but I think they've had so many male lead's that we've seen every male personality archetype done to death in this one series. Just make it a fucking female and write an appropriate script and get rid of this vague "neutral" bullshit that creates holes in immersion at different points throughout.
AC is heavily story-driven and creating an original character and writing around them is paramount in making story heavy games memorable. Kudos to Ubi and their representation but I think they've had so many male lead's that we've seen every male personality archetype done to death in this one series. Just make it a fucking female and write an appropriate script and get rid of this vague "neutral" bullshit that creates holes in immersion at different points throughout.
The lack of the female Viking in marketing is mind blowing to me. How are companies still aversive to the idea of marketing with a woman lead when other games have done it to great success?
Ubisoft is surely aware of this but they are too worried about scaring off the men who are - God forbid - put off from playing as a woman
Because the people who work in marketing think that male gamers are less likely to buy the game if it stars a woman.
In a gen with LiS, Control, TLOU2, Horizon and the like, some of which are massive commercial successes despite potential outcry...
How have they, as one of the biggest publishers, not sat down and reassessed? Inexcusable doesn't begin to describe it.
Tomb Raider sold millions 25 years ago, yet that didn't convince publishers.
- Publishers, developers, and marketing firms are mostly run by men who have biases about what sells.
- Some companies conduct player tests and focus groups that somehow confirm that some male gamers don't want to play as women (the methodology and the sampling could probably be criticized)
- Financial risks mean that investors will always try to play it "safe", no matter how sexist or racist the product will be.
So the problem is: who is making the decisions, their epistemological toolsets, and the economic system motivating the (sexist) status quo.
Remember, Microsoft used a spreadsheet to calculate the sales of their products. When a female protagonist was introduced, it meant lower sales:
'It was the right choice': how the Gears 5 team built a credible female hero
Kait Diaz is a success as the protagonist in Gears 5, but the process of getting her there went back years and involved cultural change for the game’s developer
www.theguardian.com
Tomb Raider sold millions 25 years ago, yet that didn't convince publishers.
- Publishers, developers, and marketing firms are mostly run by men who have biases about what sells.
- Some companies conduct player tests and focus groups that somehow confirm that some male gamers don't want to play as women (the methodology and the sampling could probably be criticized)
- Financial risks mean that investors will always try to play it "safe", no matter how sexist or racist the product will be.
So the problem is: who is making the decisions, their epistemological toolsets, and the economic system motivating the (sexist) status quo.
Remember, Microsoft used a spreadsheet to calculate the sales of their products. When a female protagonist was introduced, it meant lower sales:
'It was the right choice': how the Gears 5 team built a credible female hero
Kait Diaz is a success as the protagonist in Gears 5, but the process of getting her there went back years and involved cultural change for the game’s developer
A lot of women also already expect, that they have to play as a men, since they always had to, while playing as a woman, who isn't Lara Croft is still a foreign concept for a lot of men.
"The dude" is called Eivor though, which is a woman's name in the north, and Ubi said that we would have to play the game to see the trick they use to have both a male and female character canon. So they might have something interesting going on here that we don't know about yet.I see Ubisoft once again erased the female character in their marketing of the viking game.
Literally nowhere to be seen in the reveal.
Even in their spreadsheet overview of the editions of the game we only get like a small statue image whereas the dude gets fancy artwork across 5 banners:
Do people realize how sexist this is? Both that male consumers think like this and that Ubisoft thinks like this?
I have and I'm questioning the OP's idea that proper representation lies in removing gender options.
Quote from the OP:
Additionally, a selectable protagonist isn't representation because to avoid a ridiculous amount of work, it necessitates "gender-neutral" writing, and writing that is "gender-neutral" is actually just male-centric. Let's consider Odyssey specifically. Ancient Greece outside of Sparta was kind of hideously sexist, yet Kassandra's gender is never remarked upon, even when it really should be: For example, women competing in the Olympics wasn't just illegal, it was punishable by death - and you even get a sidequest dealing with that very subject... WHILE PLAYING AS KASSANDRA, A WOMAN WHO COMPETED IN THE OLYMPICS AND NO ONE SAID BOO. It breaks immersion completely and makes no sense. At the same time, Greece has a number of important, revered mythological and religious figures who are women, so the intersection of that and everyday sexism would have added a fascinating element to Kassandra's story.
I'm not saying I want Kassandra to have been treated like shit, called a bitch and a whore and threatened with rape every five seconds. However, considering that AC does tackle social issues, often with the subtlety of a sledgehammer (Syndicate's tagline was literally "Oppression Must End"), it seems extremely weird that her gender is never even remarked upon. She could have been an Atalanta-like figure, overcoming sexism and being badass despite being shit on by society. And that's where the "male-centric" writing complaint comes in: having your gender ignored entirely is a luxury only people who aren't oppressed because of their gender (i.e. cis men) are afforded. In that way, playing Kassandra doesn't accurately represent the female experience. "It's a power fantasy!" Sure, but you know who else is a power fantasy? Aloy. Just like Kassandra, Aloy is strong, smart, pretty, gets hit on by almost everyone she meets, and is cooler than everyone around her. I love her for it! And Aloy's gender is kind of really important in how it shapes her story and how the world around her reacts to her. Kassandra may be "canon", so why does it feel like the game was written for Alexios, and then she was hastily shoved in for diversity points?
Kassandra is still written like a man, because it takes to much effort to writte two different chracters, so both chracters are written for a male character,
but one character has a woman skin on.
User Banned (1 month): Sexist trolling in a thread regarding female representation
I mean, I'm all for proper writing and all. Damn, I want NPCs to comment on my ridiculous helmet and flaming horse!
But I think, first, we are not there yet. Second, I doubt many people want that type of "realism" in terms of gender/race in games.
Getting back to Cyberpunk 2077, people were furious over goons yelling c-word while shooting at female protagonist.
Or Tomb Raider 2013. Lara's gender is mostly ignored throughout the game, but there was that controversy over a cutscene with rape-y undertones.
the only way to get "there" is to make a concentrated effort to reach that goal not small half-measures like whatever ubi has been doing for the last 5 years. if they want to make a female-lead mainline AC game then...they have to actually do that?
Yeah. I'm all for choice but the more I think about it, the more I realize how interesting and unique the story could be if it was about a shield maiden navigating that world as opposed to another male viking story or a character that is 95-99% the same person regardless of gender.
I agree completely OP. I love playing as a woman in games because I want to explore that perspective on life but I never really "feel" like I'm playing as one unless it's addressed every now and then.
I really hope Cyberpunk is different in that your gender actually makes a difference and causes the NPCs to acknowledge you as whatever you present as.
The developers promised long ago that it would, but things may have changed.
I really hope Cyberpunk is different in that your gender actually makes a difference and causes the NPCs to acknowledge you as whatever you present as.
The developers promised long ago that it would, but things may have changed.
It only makes sense if I give you 1 cup of boiling water to make 2 cups of tea...
What I'm saying is I will give you 2 cups of boiling water.
Same here. Female V, especially the first design they showed, always struck me as a more interesting character than the male version. I'll definitely be playing as her when the game comes out. (For the record, I did play Kassandra in AC:O).
I wish there were more games written specifically with women/queer/trans/non-binary/or even just minority perspectives as the central perspective. Character creation options are nice, but they're starting to feel increasingly like a half step towards real representation. Especially when Odyssey decided to ignore player choice in regards to sexual preference in their DLC. It clearly showed that they are not writing their stories with anything other then the hetero norm in mind.
So if they're not going to write their stories to accommodate the character creation options they provide, then they need to either change the way they're writing their stories, or go back to more focused protagonists. My only worry is if they chose the latter option, they would go back to almost never making a woman be the main character.
So if they're not going to write their stories to accommodate the character creation options they provide, then they need to either change the way they're writing their stories, or go back to more focused protagonists. My only worry is if they chose the latter option, they would go back to almost never making a woman be the main character.
I would prefer a solo female protagonist, but I'm also extremely shallow because I think the modern "big muscley guy with shaved sides/fauxhawk + braided beard" viking look is so viscerally unappealing on a visual level it just makes me completely lose interest before I can even generate a second thought about the game.
Wasn't it pretty public that they adjusted the Bioshock Infinite cover to be more bro-like? Or am I confusing things there.
That's the most known example my brain can think of. Though generally its sadly pretty obvious how much marketing is catered towards that. Which seems weird considering how much people like the gender options in games like this or female lead characters in general (Aloy is probably the most recent western example?). I want that to change. Not only would give it better representation but also cooler game covers. It's a win-win in my eyes.
Like Cyberpunk 2077 has so many talented artists working on it and their cover seems so bland but it will probably do its job well. Kinda sad.
The original cover for Infinite was supposed to show Booker and Elizabeth but the publisher was "concerned" Elizabeth's presence would make the game sell worse so they cut her and replaced Booker's original pose with the "Grim, sad guy in front of explosion" art instead.
Eurogamer noticed the lack of female Eivor in Valhalla's marketing thus far as well:
Seems like the perfect topic for a featured article somewhere in the near future.
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It's like the jury table for the world's most obnoxious hipster contest. Even that poor dog doesn't fully escape it with that dumb head paint.
Seems like the perfect topic for a featured article somewhere in the near future.
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It can work quite well for real life actors like the cast of Vikings, I think. But yeah, there's something so visually unappealing about video game characters carrying that look. Or Ubisoft characters at least, because I had the same issue with Far Cry 5.
It's like the jury table for the world's most obnoxious hipster contest. Even that poor dog doesn't fully escape it with that dumb head paint.
Same here. The male warrior viking is such a generic character key visual. It so boring.