So happy with the EU Luke getting respect :)
I picked Anakin, but if we're including EU Luke, forget that
I picked Anakin, but if we're including EU Luke, forget that
At the end of the day, who was a more competent Jedi Knight - Anakin before turning into Vader, or Luke?
- Thread starter SolVanderlyn
- Start date
Luke essentially saved all his most beloved friends (with the exception of Obi Wan), with -- all things considered --, minimum casualties and without losing himself in the process: while also proving to be wiser than the 3 top Jedi's we have seen in movies so far.
Defeating "The" Empire (with its myriads of planets/systems) dwarf any accomplishment Anakin ever had.
On the other hand, in the Disney's era we learn that such feat not only was short lived, but that the Empire was still pretty much alive, and just biding its time.
There, Luke not only is easily outmaneuvered by not-even-the-main-villain, but he is so naive and unrefined as to allow himself to be distraught by "visions" (something he should have learned to handle in ESB), knowing how powerful and cunning the dark side is. And when things goes south by his own actions, he immediately runs away from his responsibilities and abandon his friends at the moment they needed him the most, reneging of the institution he was suppose to rebuild, and during all these events he never --not even once--, has the most basic of common sense to consult his actions/suspicions with all the beyond-comprehension guides he should have had at his disposal.
In contrast, Anakin lived though a much more complex and difficult times, constantly achieving the "impossible" in every situation and conflict he comes across, saving and freeing millions of lives a myriads of times, sometimes by strength, but also using diplomacy.
All of that, while he is constantly lied, kept at bay by this own friends, never really receiving basic depression treatment/counseling; even though all his mentors knew *for a fact* that by his very own special nature, he was incredibly susceptible to strong emotions swirls, and thus manipulation. Basically, a live ticking bomb.
The key word is "competent", and neither ended up having the consistency to be fully dependable. Luke original achievements were pretty impressive (before being retconed), but there is also no denying that he had a much more easier path than his father.
But then again, his story is not done yet (maybe for either?), so who knows.
Defeating "The" Empire (with its myriads of planets/systems) dwarf any accomplishment Anakin ever had.
On the other hand, in the Disney's era we learn that such feat not only was short lived, but that the Empire was still pretty much alive, and just biding its time.
There, Luke not only is easily outmaneuvered by not-even-the-main-villain, but he is so naive and unrefined as to allow himself to be distraught by "visions" (something he should have learned to handle in ESB), knowing how powerful and cunning the dark side is. And when things goes south by his own actions, he immediately runs away from his responsibilities and abandon his friends at the moment they needed him the most, reneging of the institution he was suppose to rebuild, and during all these events he never --not even once--, has the most basic of common sense to consult his actions/suspicions with all the beyond-comprehension guides he should have had at his disposal.
In contrast, Anakin lived though a much more complex and difficult times, constantly achieving the "impossible" in every situation and conflict he comes across, saving and freeing millions of lives a myriads of times, sometimes by strength, but also using diplomacy.
All of that, while he is constantly lied, kept at bay by this own friends, never really receiving basic depression treatment/counseling; even though all his mentors knew *for a fact* that by his very own special nature, he was incredibly susceptible to strong emotions swirls, and thus manipulation. Basically, a live ticking bomb.
The key word is "competent", and neither ended up having the consistency to be fully dependable. Luke original achievements were pretty impressive (before being retconed), but there is also no denying that he had a much more easier path than his father.
But then again, his story is not done yet (maybe for either?), so who knows.
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OP
OP
I think this attitude is a major issue; too many people are viewing them through a lens of power alone.
Well yeah, what else matters
In all seriousness the Jedi path is flawed. Not as flawed as the Sith path but still flawed, and it's those flaws that led to Anakin's downfall. Luke had similar issues but it didn't come back to bit him as hard as it did Anakin
I think it's about who's a better Jedi, not the better warrior. Yoda even smacks down Luke, who thinks being a Jedi is all about being a great warrior when he replies, "Wars not make one great."
Luke is not an all-powerful "badass"; he's a naive dreamer who was seen by both sides as a pawn to be manipulated to advance their respective agendas, until he finally asserts himself on the second Death Star and opts to go his own way. It's a completely unexpected move-- no one, not the Emperor, nor Obi-Wan, nor Yoda, nor Vader expects him to reject all of their personal agendas and toss his lightsaber aside. It comes completely out of left field. Everyone involved in the story except Luke thinks in terms of killing to acquire ultimate power, or killing to prevent the acquisition of ultimate power. It never occurred to them that a father might have some love for his son, and that his son could bring it out of him. It never occurred to them that Luke Skywalker wasn't just a new hope for the galaxy, he was a new hope for Anakin Skywalker.
He didn't go to the second Death Star so he could start slicing people en masse like some kind of whirling dervish of death. He didn't go there to demonstrate his power through wanton violence. In a complete 180 from the first film, he went to the Death Star to save someone, and he was fully prepared to sacrifice himself in the process. This is a man who loves his friends and wants to protect them. He gives himself up to Vader so he won't jeopardize their mission. At this point, he knows he's either going to bring his father back to the Light and free him from the Emperor, or he's going to die on the Death Star when his friends blow it up. Either way, he's buying them time to complete their mission by handing himself over to Vader.
Luke Skywalker is not a whirly-twirly "badass"; he's a Shield. If Luke were to die, he would do it by sacrificing himself to save his friends, which is exactly what he did. He may not have been the Chosen One, but he was the fulfillment of the Jedi's principles and Code.
Definitely Anakin. He was a highly accomplished Jedi in his time as a general in the clone wars. His training was comprehensive compared to Luke's meager lessons, and his life among his peers clearly aided his development.
Surprising no one, this is hardly conveyed in the prequels themselves. You have to look to the Clone Wars series for a substantive and coherent picture of Anakin's standing in the Jedi order before his fall.
Surprising no one, this is hardly conveyed in the prequels themselves. You have to look to the Clone Wars series for a substantive and coherent picture of Anakin's standing in the Jedi order before his fall.