At what point in history did movies shift to depicting violence in a realistic way ?

[Deleted member 21339]

Violence in older movies is shown in such a sanitized way. For example, in classic Hollywood epics we never see swords cut into flesh, or arrows pierce armor. They look obviously glued onto wardrobes. Stunt men keel and die over in highly theatrical ways. Was there a watershed moment where things changed? Was it Bonnie and Clyde? Was it the censors holding movies back? Was it a lack of sophistication in special effects technique? Was it the viewing publics tolerance for realistic depicifons of violence in movies? When did the movement for greater realism start?

 

[Froyo Love]

Peckinpah's The Wild Bunch was probably the watershed moment for graphic violence. I don't think Hollywood violence has been "realistic" at almost any point, though.

 

[Deleted member 21339]

Peckinpah's The Wild Bunch was probably the watershed moment for graphic violence. I don't think Hollywood violence has been "realistic" at almost any point, though.

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Well, we have come a really long way from the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s when it comes to violence of a graphic nature, wouldnt you agree?

 

[lobdale]

Bonnie and Clyde, Night of the Living Dead, The Wild Bunch... early movies from New Hollywood kind of defined this switchover in American cinema.

 

[Tom Nook]

SAW franchise IMO. After that, all this torture porn movies comes in.

 

[Crocks]

Peckinpah's The Wild Bunch was probably the watershed moment for graphic violence. I don't think Hollywood violence has been "realistic" at almost any point, though.

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A modern film that I felt like had a different presentation of violence was Taken. I remember watching it and thinning that it, for the most part, has a pretty no-nonsense approach to it, with a lot of single, loud gunshots killing people, rather than the hero spraying a submachine gun from the hip. Probably not what you're asking really, but that was a big departure from the sort of 90s style Brosnan Bond, Die Hard, Arnie style cartoon violence to something more visceral, if not actually realistic.

 

[Begbie]

The MPAA making the early rating system in the late 60s

 

[Deleted member 31923]

I'd say the 70's is when things really took off, and there was more realism in film in general starting then, not just with violence. See The Godfather, Taxi Driver, The Deer Hunter, etc.

 

[andymcc]

SAW franchise IMO. After that, all this torture porn movies comes in.

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LMAO what kind of historical perspective is this?

On topic, though I acknowledge the Peckinpah choices, the earliest Hollywood violence that really was unsettling to me was the ending of Taxi Driver.

 

[Disco Stu]

60s

 

[jph139]

Film in general was more "theatrical" until the 50s and 60s - more akin to a stage play, with heightened reality, than modern stuff that tries to reflect realism in sets and performances (well, usually). I assume that a more realistic type of violence followed naturally from that change in sensibility.

I'd definitely be interested in knowing if violence on film has anything like, say, Brando in Streetcar - where you see the modern approach encroaching on the classics.Night of the Living Dead is sort of that bridge piece for horror, definitely.

 

[Yams]

New Hollywood era.

 

[Stinkles]

Berry Gordy's The Last Dragon.

 

[NealMcCauley]

If you want to go back to black and white Psycho was a watershed moment. You never saw anything but the editing sure made you feel like you did.

 

[Deleted member 21339]

Last night I watched Robin Hood 1938 with Errol Flynn for the first time ever which is what inspired this thread. Actually, I watched Robin Hood 2010, Prince of Thieves and the Errol Flynn version all over the weekend. Got me thinking about how violence and realism has evolved through the decades.

Even Spartacus in the late 50s wasn't particularly graphic or sophisticated in onscreen depictions of violence.

 

[Achtung]

Deadpool

 

[Richiek]

The Hays Code which was took effect from the 1930s to the 1950s was the main factor of self censorship of sex and violence in Hollywood movies. Once the 60s came around, films pretty much flouted and ignored the code leading to more graphic depictions of sex and violence.

 

[Fancy Clown]

The 60's with new wave stuff. Not only was the Hays code out but seeing examples of real violence, both at home and abroad, during the tumult of the era inspired filmmakers handling of violence to better reflect the world around them.

 

[Froyo Love]

Well, we have come a really long way from the 30s, 40s, 50s and 60s when it comes to violence of a graphic nature, wouldnt you agree?

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Last night I watched Robin Hood 1938 with Errol Flynn for the first time ever which is what inspired this thread. Actually, I watched Robin Hood 2010, Prince of Thieves and the Errol Flynn version all over the weekend. Got me thinking about how violence and realism has evolved through the decades.

Even Spartacus in the late 50s wasn't particularly graphic or sophisticated in onscreen depictions of violence.

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What you're describing as progress towards realism is more of a transition from one aesthetic sensibility to another. Kill Bill is bloodier than the 1938 Adventures of Robin Hood, is it more realistic?

 

[Deleted member 21339]

What you're describing as progress towards realism is more of a transition from one aesthetic sensibility to another. Kill Bill is bloodier than the 1938 Adventures of Robin Hood, is it more realistic?

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Not more realistic necessarily but much more graphic. Kill Bill is not a good example as it's highly stylized violence. Compare something like Spartacus to Braveheart. That's the kind of comparison I'm getting at.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Probably Psycho.

 

[SugarNoodles]

I feel like the same could be said for acting in general.

 

[Vampire Chicken]

I'd agree that the New Hollywood/New Wave of the mid-late 60s was the turning point in depicting more gritty/bloody violence in films. Notable films were The Wild Bunch and Bonnie and Clyde (which I do still need to see sometime).

 

[Polioliolio]

SAW franchise IMO. After that, all this torture porn movies comes in.

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Chuckling at the idea of cinema violence going from holding a spear under your arm immediately to the saw franchise.

No I know what you mean.

 

[Livingskeletons]

I feel like the same could be said for acting in general.

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Marlon Brando outclassing everybody in StreetCar Named Desire is brutal.

 

[Froyo Love]

Not more realistic necessarily but much more graphic. Kill Bill is not a good example as it's highly stylized violence. Compare something like Spartacus to Braveheart. That's the kind of comparison I'm getting at.

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Okay, I definitely misunderstood your premise. The increasing sophistication in depicting gore and staging fight scenes over time is absolutely about time granting both institutional knowledge and technological possibilities. Comparing Spartacus to Braveheart is a good example because they're pretty similar movies, in terms of their depiction of violence. They're both clearly aiming for a cinematically enhanced feeling of "naturalism," just with a 35 year gap in technical sophistication.

I still strongly urge you not to conflate violence being rendered in a convincing way with a realistic way. A lot of "gritty, realistic" portrayals in media are completely unrealistic, but pander to a contemporary aesthetic preference. Braveheart being again a good example.

 

[dragonchild]

Realistic?

 

[Dream Machine]

Once the world started transitioning into the 70s.

 

[Fhtagn]

Eyes without a Face, 1960, has an unflinching surgery scene done in an almost modern gore horror style.

Un Chien Andalou (1929) has a really shocking opening 2 minutes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=054OIVlmjUM

Night of the Living Dead is one of the turning points that made this kind of presentation more common, but getting realistic deeper blood colors on film wasn't a widely solved problem until after Dawn of the Dead (1978) (which, like Suspiria, has cartoonishly bright colored blood), but it was by 81 at the latest.

 

[Deleted member 30005]

Violence in older movies is shown in such a sanitized way.

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In some key areas, it still is.

Have you ever seen what happens in the real world when a bullet eviscerates a human skull? The blood loss is astonishing. Like an open tap. Hollwood rarely depicts the reality.