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Australian Senate passes motion to investigate Loot Boxes
- Thread starter Mario_Bones
- Start date
I genuinely have no idea how this will go.
Reforms to poker machines - which are a big problem in a lot of communities in Australia - have been halted because some people are getting big lobbying money.
Yet video games don't have the support of big lobbying here, so there is more of a chance something might happen.
Also - the ratings board here is very trigger-happy with banning things (We Happy Few's getting banned, and a lot of Australian games journos that went to E3 this year said that Cyberpunk 2077 will likely get banned) - so if the solution involves them, that's going to be chaotic.
Reforms to poker machines - which are a big problem in a lot of communities in Australia - have been halted because some people are getting big lobbying money.
Yet video games don't have the support of big lobbying here, so there is more of a chance something might happen.
Also - the ratings board here is very trigger-happy with banning things (We Happy Few's getting banned, and a lot of Australian games journos that went to E3 this year said that Cyberpunk 2077 will likely get banned) - so if the solution involves them, that's going to be chaotic.
'Gaming' in Australia is widely known as a pseudonym for betting and especially poker machines.
Not as a reference to video games, usually. Hopefully this doesn't become a problem.
A bit of healthy scepticism here is required, the Greens need a bit of good news, glad to see Senator Steele-John driving this.
Not as a reference to video games, usually. Hopefully this doesn't become a problem.
A bit of healthy scepticism here is required, the Greens need a bit of good news, glad to see Senator Steele-John driving this.
There's something inherently hilarious about politicians seriously discussing video game terminology.
I'm just waiting for the Australian Royal Commission on Bunnyhopping.
As for loot boxes, I wouldn't be sad to see them get regulated out of existence, but I can't help but sneer at the idea of them being some scourge upon society. People do realise that not buying something is an option, right? As is not giving your credit card to your kids?
I'm just waiting for the Australian Royal Commission on Bunnyhopping.
As for loot boxes, I wouldn't be sad to see them get regulated out of existence, but I can't help but sneer at the idea of them being some scourge upon society. People do realise that not buying something is an option, right? As is not giving your credit card to your kids?
Yeah, given the prevalence of pokies & other opportunities to gamble I'm not holding my breath thstbthis will result in any action in terms of legislation- maybe they'll force publishers to slap a 'Gamble Responsibly' splash on the loading credits.
You get outta here with that kind of commie nonsense!
DP because adding a clipped quote on mobile crashed Safari
lol.
Well it took us a decade of campaigning to get an R rating for games but we are only a year behind on the lootbox controversy. I guess you would call that progress.
Go to a drug addict and tell them that simply not taking drugs is an option. Gambling is a disease, and encouraging it from a young age is potentially disastrous,
Hahaha. If someone is so pathetically weak willed that they are buying digital lucky dips with a degree of compulsion comparable to someone with a chemical addiction then I think they're beyond help.
Besides, you don't get addicted to something you don't take, or buy. I honestly don't have much sympathy for anyone stupid enough to think taking crystal meth the first time was a good idea.
Is this a bad joke, satire or serious?
If its really serious please inform yourself about gambling addiction, it has nothing to do with what you win/buy.
You're a human being who resorts to childish insults in place of reason.
Oh? So a person who does not gamble can still get addicted to gambling?
That seems like it would be quite a trick.
I'm rather puzzled as to what exactly it is you're trying to achieve here.
Why do you think people get addicted to gambling? Because of the chemical reaction in their brain that goes off when they get a win. Yeah, it isn't a dependency on a substance but it can still be addictive.
And yeah, someone who doesn't gamble can get addicted to gambling, how do you think addictions start? I'm not hooked on heroin because I've not done it so that means heroin isn't addictive, right?
Wow. You're ignorant and proud of it. I don't think you should be talking about reason.
You're not a qualified professional and it is not up to you to determine this. Addictions are not worthy of derision.
This sounds like some sort of comment out of the Red Pill subreddit.
I think they start by taking an addictive substance or partaking in an addictive activity.
Yes, heroin is addictive. Which is why taking it is a really dumb idea.
Never taking it strikes me as a pretty surefire way to avoid getting hooked on it.
While I'm sure saying, "You're ignorant" is vaguely satisfying for you, I don't really see what you expect to achieve here.
Calling out a person who is utterly lacking in both knowledge about addictions and empathy is very worthwhile. Otherwise people might think your ideas have a place in society.
Huh? Aren't the redpill crowd all about gender issues? Anti-feminism and whatnot? What does that have to do with addiction, gambling and lootboxes?
Righto. Good job on educating the masses then I guess? I'm sure you've struck a great blow this day for the righteous cause of... something.
I mean, if I were a third party reading this I'd probably want to hear an argument more substantive than "you're ignorant", but you do you.
Addiction comes in all forms, one is no lesser than the other. There are few beyond help but it doesn't mean people shouldn't try to help them all the same.
"Stupid enough" isn't the thing for some, some are in a ton of pain, depression, or going through a lot and want an escape to take that away. Some can taper it with hobbies or what not, others don't think anything helps but an altered state of being. It's not like all drug addicts were some freshly-turned 19 going "Yolo" and shooting up.
This doesn't make a lot of sense. A person who has never been to a casino in their life, could still problem dealing with addiction and have gambling impulses. How do you define "gambling" anyway? It can start small - playing a few rounds of cards with friends during a holiday meet up, buying lotto and maybe winning a small prize, making a small bet on a football match, etc. Totally innocuous stuff that regular people do all the time and isn't problematic. People who have a gambling problem fall deeper into it, and if left unchecked they can't control themselves.
Yeah I think that fits what you said perfectly, a group of people that have a serve lack of empathy and understanding of the struggles and plight of others whike simultaneously looks down on others because they think they are better then them.
Doubt much or anything will come from this. Loot boxes don't appear appealing to problem gamblers because there's a ceiling with what you can get. I could see addicts betting over what they would get from each box. At best, they're impulse buys and not an addiction.
So if we ban loot boxes does that just mean that games that have them aren't allowed to be released here?
Isn't that just more censorship ?
I don't think it's going to stop them from existing. Just stop them being released here.
Or am I wrong? Genuinely asking
Isn't that just more censorship ?
I don't think it's going to stop them from existing. Just stop them being released here.
Or am I wrong? Genuinely asking
Perhaps you missed the 'kids' bit in the brief
"use of loot boxes in video games, whether they constitute gambling, and whether they are appropriate for younger audiences"
Kids + Anything that even remotely close to anything adult (drugs/sex/gambling/violence) + Australia is frowned upon.
I think we are going to see the ACB get some new guidelines in a year-ish.
Wait developers hate them? Developers hate essentially free money that can sometimes be the only hope they have of making their game profitable? Developers hate having a quick and easy way to keep engagement numbers high? Somehow I don't think so.
As an Australian, this is terrible. Out of all the governments in the world, ours is the last one you would want getting involved in gaming regulation. They are terrible. They royally fucked over our what would have been almost world leading National Broadband Network to the point that by the time it's completed 10+ years late it will have cost tens of billions of dollars more than it should have, and will only be delivering speeds that are about 20% of what they should have been. They've just put new tax cuts in place that will see billions wiped from their budget, and are now looking at doing big corporate tax cuts as well, so bye bye public services and road etc upkeep. They finally gave us an R18+ rating, but it's basically just a re-badged MA15+ and has still had a number of games refused classification. Online gambling was recently made illegal here too.
Under our current laws loot boxes are not gambling. This isn't debatable, it's not even questionable. Loot boxes are not gambling. What is gambling is the systems on a handful of PC games that then enable you to trade/sell the contents of loot boxes. They already meet the legal definition of digital gambling according to law, yet nothing has been done about them.
You might think that loot boxes are unethical or predatory, but if you think that then really so are things like levelling up in COD, RNG loot in games like Diablo and Destiny, and so on.
I 100% disagree that loot boxes need to be regulated. The methods to sell the contents need to be cracked down on as they are 100% gambling.
OP
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Hard to say just yet. Instead of a ban they could force loot boxes to be incorporated into the classification process, meaning they could raise the rating of a game or at least be required to be listed on the box.
Oh, plenty. It's by no means universally applied though.
Oh, I wholeheartedly agree. By all means, give them whatever help can be given.
I wouldn't have much sympathy for someone who injured themselves because they thought it would be a good idea to stick their dick in a conveyor belt (true story), but I'd never say they shouldn't get hospital treatment afterwards.
Does being addicted to drugs ever help those people or improve their situation? Are the drugs ever a smart decision?
See, all those things seem varying degrees of dumb to me. Essentially harmless, yes, but still dumb.
You're spending money on a small chance to get some more money back. You might as well be throwing it a bin and hoping you find some more on the footpath down the street. If the odds were in your favour then the gambling business wouldn't exist.
I used to play cards with friends. We bet beans. All the fun, none of the risk. The thought of bringing real money into it would have been ridiculous. Quickest way to take the fun out of a friendly card game and risk things turning nasty and resentful.
Oh boy. This conversation is going places. Okay. Well, I think you sound like a Trump supporter. Because... oh, let's see... because you accuse people you disagree with of looking down on others. There. Nailed it. Makes about as much sense as what you're trying to come at me with.
The Senator in question is 23 years old and is a disability advocate, and has supported the government doing more to help the games industry in the past.
Some people feel the same way about those who waste their precious time with childish things like videogames or superhero movies when they could be spending it on something more productive and beneficial to society and self. Essentially harmless, yes, but still dumb. How do you feel about such an opinion?
Oh, they hate it so much. It's not like there's individual people in those companies with different thinking about this, right. Or that many of it is a bonus.
I feel nothing about it. They're entirely free to think whatever they please.
If I were to be preoccupied by the disapproval of unknown people then I'd never get anything done. Sounds like a thoroughly miserable way to go through life.
But yet you are preoccupied enough by random people on a gaming forum telling you that your opinion is lame. You feel the need to reply to each and every one trying to defend your position or accuse them of being rude to you. Sounds like a thoroughly miserable way to go through life.
Hahaha. You... you do realize you're here too, right? Doing the exact same thing?
And I for one find online textual sparring to be thoroughly enjoyable in controlled doses.
Industry self-regulation would have made government regulation unnecessary.
When an industry is slower to act than the government you have a problem that needs fixing.
Yeah but I care about what other people say. And I don't find it miserable. :)
If you have an addictive personality, there aren't many options. One mistake can lead to a lot of problems.
It's utterly disingenuous to say it's as simple as not buying something. Not only is addiction a real thing (and the bigger problem) but loot boxes, at least the way they're usually incorporated, ruin the experience. It's one thing when they're only for cosmetic items, but there's been a rise in games where the game is based around them - Shadow of War, whatever crap EA churns out, etc. Regulating them out of the industry is a boon for everyone.
Nah. I mean, if you wanted to actually research this, you could have done it yourself. I did 5 minutes of googling and I found several articles with passages such as
https://www.helpguide.org/articles/addictions/gambling-addiction-and-problem-gambling.htm
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-the-brain-gets-addicted-to-gambling/
But hey, fuck people born with poor impulse control that predispose them to be more likely to develop an gambling addiction, they aren't all internet strongmen like you.
So yea, instead of arguing, I'm just here to say you lack in empathy, and that makes for a poor human being.