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Avatar: The Way of Water |OT| Respect Indigenous
- Thread starter ContractHolder
- Start date
- OT
Haha, yeah. When they first showed off a bunch of ships landing and they had people walking around in some plastic suits my mind just thought it looked like some random cutscene from a game.
Lots of footage from the movie in this video that don't show up in trailers, if you want to relive some scenes lol:
View: https://youtu.be/8QLYI_g9HVU
I have to say compared to this video, HFR makes everything look better.
Franglen's stuff is pretty good to be honest, even if it doesn't have the same impact as James Horner' score for the first movie.
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View: https://youtu.be/8QLYI_g9HVU
I have to say compared to this video, HFR makes everything look better.
I think Cameron was too in love with Horner's compositions from the original movie and made Simon Franglen or some assistant (clunkily) insert them into several scenes in the movie. The soundtrack release for WOTW features almost entirely original material with little of the overtly reused cues as they appear in the movie.Whatever happened to this amazing score from the teaser:
Avatar: The Way of Water | Official Teaser Trailer
Set more than a decade after the events of the first film, “Avatar: The Way of Water” begins to tell the story of the Sully family (Jake, Neytiri, and their ...youtu.be
This feels like it captures the wonderous/spiritual quality of some of the underwater scenes yet instead we got a more generic Hollywood score.
Do you think JC asked the new composer to change the compositions to more bombastic to fit the edit?
Franglen's stuff is pretty good to be honest, even if it doesn't have the same impact as James Horner' score for the first movie.
Simon Franglen - Bad Parents (From "Avatar: The Way of Water"/Audio Only)
Listen to the Original Motion Picture Soundtrack from "Avatar: The Way of Water": https://20thcenturystudios.lnk.to/AvatarTheWayOfWater/YouTubeMusicSet more ...
youtu.be
Simon Franglen - Payakan (From "Avatar: The Way of Water"/Audio Only)
Listen to the Original Motion Picture Soundtrack from "Avatar: The Way of Water": https://20thcenturystudios.lnk.to/AvatarTheWayOfWater/YouTubeMusicSet more ...
youtu.be
Simon Franglen - From Darkness to Light (From "Avatar: The Way of Water"/Audio Only)
Listen to the Original Motion Picture Soundtrack from "Avatar: The Way of Water": https://20thcenturystudios.lnk.to/AvatarTheWayOfWater/YouTubeMusicSet more ...
youtu.be
HFR works really well with 3D and i understand why it isnt used all the time, but it was at times jarring going between it and regular
Incredible looking movie and it didnt feel like 3hrs but thats just because they keep delivering crazy stuff more and more throughout the runtime, if you stop looking and think about the plot or pacing for more than a second, just dont, 😂
Might have to go see it again since it wont look as good in Blu-ray
Incredible looking movie and it didnt feel like 3hrs but thats just because they keep delivering crazy stuff more and more throughout the runtime, if you stop looking and think about the plot or pacing for more than a second, just dont, 😂
Might have to go see it again since it wont look as good in Blu-ray
I was hoping that Cameron would change his mind about changing frame rate between takes and scenes for future Avatar films, but this is Cameron. He is a stubborn SOB and no one is going to tell him what to do. He won't admit that he's wrong, even if he knows it.
Watched this on Friday and loved it, but there's definitely a couple aspects which it didn't quite nail in my opinion (kinda like the first one for me).
I thought the film between the opening and them travelling to the islands clan felt fairly long. I think some of this was hard to avoid though since there was a lot of ground to cover and characters to establish before the crux of the story. To me the film really took off once they reached the islands, it's also a lot more obvious here how much of a leap ahead the CGI is over the first film.
Neytiri felt a fair bit under developed in this film. I would have liked to have seen her take part in more scenes just living, or adapting to the island life.
The soundtrack was a weird one for me, I went in hoping they wouldn't throw out the motifs of the original, but it was actually way overused. The film could have done with some quieter scenes for a start, but it felt like it also just lifts and shifts the original soundtrack at points. The whaling scene in particular kinda felt like, "oh shit, sad scene, play the sad song, since the audience is meant to feel sad". I think it might have worked better to use motifs from the original while having a mostly original score.
The only other thing is a case of story and world building. I think there was a ton of cool "things" in this film, crab mechs, new animals, new plants, the recoms, new clan, but the film felt kinda narrow in spite of this. I think I always expected them to really broaden and flesh out the world and lore of Avatar with this film, and it certainly does it to a narrow extent, but I had hoped to see more. While I am sure we will get that in the sequels, it kinda made it clear to me that the take away of this film is meant to be the environmental message and spectacle, rather than deep lore.
Anyway, they didn't really distract from the film as I was watching it, so I still loved it overall. But I hope they are things which are worked on in the sequels. I am pretty tempted to see it again too, so my thoughts might change without the weight of expectation on it again.
I thought the film between the opening and them travelling to the islands clan felt fairly long. I think some of this was hard to avoid though since there was a lot of ground to cover and characters to establish before the crux of the story. To me the film really took off once they reached the islands, it's also a lot more obvious here how much of a leap ahead the CGI is over the first film.
Neytiri felt a fair bit under developed in this film. I would have liked to have seen her take part in more scenes just living, or adapting to the island life.
The soundtrack was a weird one for me, I went in hoping they wouldn't throw out the motifs of the original, but it was actually way overused. The film could have done with some quieter scenes for a start, but it felt like it also just lifts and shifts the original soundtrack at points. The whaling scene in particular kinda felt like, "oh shit, sad scene, play the sad song, since the audience is meant to feel sad". I think it might have worked better to use motifs from the original while having a mostly original score.
The only other thing is a case of story and world building. I think there was a ton of cool "things" in this film, crab mechs, new animals, new plants, the recoms, new clan, but the film felt kinda narrow in spite of this. I think I always expected them to really broaden and flesh out the world and lore of Avatar with this film, and it certainly does it to a narrow extent, but I had hoped to see more. While I am sure we will get that in the sequels, it kinda made it clear to me that the take away of this film is meant to be the environmental message and spectacle, rather than deep lore.
Anyway, they didn't really distract from the film as I was watching it, so I still loved it overall. But I hope they are things which are worked on in the sequels. I am pretty tempted to see it again too, so my thoughts might change without the weight of expectation on it again.
Pages back I was lamenting how dull the sequel world of Avatar is compared to something like Horizon Forbidden West, pointing out the lack of worldbuilding potential in the sequel, such as Navi confederations, tribal politics, religious cults, guilds (warrior, merchant, etc), traitor clans working for humans, neo-clans blending old traditions with new tech, Navi recreation such as inns, sports, art, whatever. In three hours we simply went from an insular forest tribe to an insular water tribe (well, perhaps not so insular, they allowed strangers in far too conveniently). But a shower thought occurred to me today...
...if Jake is the one to finally create a confederation of disparate Navi to fight back, it will mean Cameron double-downing on the White Savior trope with a vengeance. Like, these natives are so dumb and fractured they need an outsider to bring them together.
All the more a shame, as he could have, if he so wished, pushed Jake to the background in this sequel and Neytiri to the forefront and have her be the one to do it. With 3 more movies on the way, it could still happen, some people think Jake might even die. I'm not optimistic though, I believe he'll be spearheading the rebellion in the next movie (somewhat obligatory as he made a promise to the viewer in the movie's last scene) and so Cameron will cement the White Savior trope rather than veer away from the franchise's popular criticism.
...if Jake is the one to finally create a confederation of disparate Navi to fight back, it will mean Cameron double-downing on the White Savior trope with a vengeance. Like, these natives are so dumb and fractured they need an outsider to bring them together.
All the more a shame, as he could have, if he so wished, pushed Jake to the background in this sequel and Neytiri to the forefront and have her be the one to do it. With 3 more movies on the way, it could still happen, some people think Jake might even die. I'm not optimistic though, I believe he'll be spearheading the rebellion in the next movie (somewhat obligatory as he made a promise to the viewer in the movie's last scene) and so Cameron will cement the White Savior trope rather than veer away from the franchise's popular criticism.
I am fairly unfamiliar with the development of real world tribes etc, but some of it may be down to where they are in their advancement as a species. Where they haven't progressed beyond close knit familiar clans. I did have a kinda similar thought though, that maybe there could be settlements of Navi elsewhere on the planet what are way more advanced that we haven't seen yet.
It's just down to Cameron's whims really. He can type whatever he wants in Final Draft, they're aliens after all. But seeing as he's intent on emulating Native Americans and Maori culture, they did have confederations in the face of coloniser threats, so it's likely we'll see one, but if Jake is the one to make it happen it's just lame in my opinion. He has to though, because he's the protagonist unfortunately. Should have killed him off in the time skip up to Avatar 2...
Regarding clan advancement, it's not just tech but just seeing more weird customs could have spiced things up. The Sullys never really felt like a fish out of water (pun!). Because Cameron's intent on having the planet be a hive-mind of sorts, they all basically follow the same 'religion' of Eywa if I'm remembering this agonisingly long movie correctly. But in our world's history if someone from the Australian land mass flew to Polynesia, he would have had more of a cultural shock than Jake's family encountered I imagine.
edit: yep, this is what the Avatar wiki says
This is my key criticism of the film. Might be just how much I like her character off the back of the first film but I wish we saw more of her in general.
So I woke up thinking and pouring over the movie, a sign that it has that sticky JC magic....gonna have to fit viewing #2 in ASAP.
Honestly despite my small issues I noted last night, this thing blows me the fuck away. The sheer size and boldness of it, Cameron effortlessly weaving three excellent children characters into the tapestry and making me care deeply for all of them, the way he's so far ahead of the rest of the action film genre that he should have his own damn genre, just all incredible stuff.
Honestly despite my small issues I noted last night, this thing blows me the fuck away. The sheer size and boldness of it, Cameron effortlessly weaving three excellent children characters into the tapestry and making me care deeply for all of them, the way he's so far ahead of the rest of the action film genre that he should have his own damn genre, just all incredible stuff.
The younger son kept fucking up though so it wasn't just bad parents but the younger kids doing stupid shit too.
An unfortunate side effect with how much of an ensemble piece this movie is. She steals the movie every time she shows up though lol.
Yeah Neytiri (and even Jake too) got the short end of the stick here in a movie where Cameron was obviously more interested in the children characters (and the oceans), but I don't doubt for a second that they will get their time to shine in Avatar 3.
I don't see Cameron dragging Quarritch out for 5 movies, and given that Cameron himself is open to handing off directing duties after 3, I suspect that 3 will effectively close the Jake/Neytiri/Quarritch trilogy of sorts, and that 4 and 5 will focus solely on the children and a new threat, or something else altogether.
I don't see Cameron dragging Quarritch out for 5 movies, and given that Cameron himself is open to handing off directing duties after 3, I suspect that 3 will effectively close the Jake/Neytiri/Quarritch trilogy of sorts, and that 4 and 5 will focus solely on the children and a new threat, or something else altogether.
There are parts that look bad in HFR (hobbit level), while others look absolutely amazing. The good outweighs the bad.
But it's noticeable throughout, specifically with switching.
Going back tonight. All I can think about is this movie, man.Avatar fans after getting home from TWOW.
I peaked into this thread a few days ago and saw people complaining about Spider.
I kept waiting for the annoying to start, but I actually liked his character? What happened at the end was super cliche, and a postal stamp on his basic ass character arc spelled out in one of his opening scenes, but it wasn't enough to make me dislike the character or anything.
Anyone care to explain why people dislike Spider?
I kept waiting for the annoying to start, but I actually liked his character? What happened at the end was super cliche, and a postal stamp on his basic ass character arc spelled out in one of his opening scenes, but it wasn't enough to make me dislike the character or anything.
Anyone care to explain why people dislike Spider?
This withering New Yorker review (paywall) further articulates my own thoughts about the blandness of Navi culture.
Spider was great, as were all the kids. Such a great and naturalistic family dynamic between them all.
This man I can't hahahahaha :D
View: https://twitter.com/up2anth/status/1604443552905252865?s=20&t=mO9vsCh8C3-YKJ1l_DmExw
View: https://twitter.com/up2anth/status/1604443552905252865?s=20&t=mO9vsCh8C3-YKJ1l_DmExw
She does, and it is. I wouldn't have cut anything we did see either, as I think exploring the world of the Metkayina through the adventures and open wonder of the children was clever and worked well. So really it just comes down to 'do I want an extended cut' and the answer is yes, yes I do.
I see you, I'm going back Monday night myself.
They did use crafted beads and charms, almost like a Pandora bracelet (🤯), in combination with song to record their personal journey through life. It's an interesting criticism though, and it would be nice to see more of Na'vi life and culture outside of that which is in direct service to Jake.
I've seen that before but he's something else. Nobody puts as much thought and R&D into their movies. Don't think we'll ever have another with his fascination and engineering approach to filmmaking. His skillset is bonkers.
I think Robert Rodriguez said it best that most Filmmakers get a a new piece of film technology and incorporate it into their films. Jim looks at and says that's great but how can I reengineer it to suite my needs. hahaha
Saw with a group yesterday. Mixed reception with a few enjoying it despite some clear flaws, while the rest of us ambivalent and not really liking or disliking(how i too felt of the first).
I was ambivalent, mostly disappointed the scope of the plot didn't blaze anything new. I didn't really follow any news or info leading in and so was shocked this was a literal awkward revenge story that mostly felt like a vain absurdist remake in a way with everyone back for round two.
It was often nonsensical but the production held it together with good acting and effects. The newcomers(kids) were good and I usually glaze over bombastic action scenes that engulf third acts of blockbusters, but here it actually perked me up and engaged me more than the buildup.
Still, nothing I'll ever rewatch, much in the same way I felt about the first, that said, others among us quite enjoyed it.
I was ambivalent, mostly disappointed the scope of the plot didn't blaze anything new. I didn't really follow any news or info leading in and so was shocked this was a literal awkward revenge story that mostly felt like a vain absurdist remake in a way with everyone back for round two.
It was often nonsensical but the production held it together with good acting and effects. The newcomers(kids) were good and I usually glaze over bombastic action scenes that engulf third acts of blockbusters, but here it actually perked me up and engaged me more than the buildup.
Still, nothing I'll ever rewatch, much in the same way I felt about the first, that said, others among us quite enjoyed it.
It bothers me that Cameron had a TV writers room worth of people to bounce ideas off, and a 3 hour runtime at his disposal. The movie should have had more depth.
I can't really predict what the other movies are going to be like, because I feel like I don't know Cameron anymore lol. Instead of adding depth like we expect, maybe Avatar 3's plot will be staunchly simple and just be straight up "Jake gathers an army and attacks the human HQ and they depart Pandora". Which would be insane and hilarious to me. Literally remaking the end of the first movie's climax all over again lol.
I think certainly he's the most complex emotionally. Image being Spider? You live along the Na'vi your whole life. Your biological father was killed by the person who raised you and now your pops has come back to life as a Na'vi trying to kill your non biological parents. Fucking hell man! lol
People preempetively complained about the runtime but the fact is WOTW could be improved by being even longer.
Yeah I suspect Spider and Neytiri will have a pretty complex relationship going forward lol
They've already set up that conflict with
neytiri using the knife on spider and not liking him to begin with. He will likely be the villain at the end of the whole series is my guess
That's a thought I haven't entertained, but yeah probably.
Yeah I agree he is probably the most interesting character in the whole movie because of the circumstances surrounding him.
I thought the scene with neytiri in the end was one of the best in the whole movie because of that seesaw past and relationships. I hope they explore that even more in the 3rd and beyond.
I think a big part of the overall plot that I'm sort of scratching my head at, because it would be a huge fucking deal…
unobtainium wasn't even uttered, and we don't even hear about the yellow goo stuff until like halfway in. If the yellow goo stuff was way more important, I feel like it should have been mentioned/explained way sooner?? Stopping aging seems a bit more of a better motivator than moving all of humanity to pandora, which doesn't even have an atmosphere made for humans? Some of that stuff feels a bit like throwing spaghetti at the wall
And humans have all of this fascinating biotech stuff, they can't replicate this stuff on their own or grow tanook(sp?) clones on their own to farm them?
And humans have all of this fascinating biotech stuff, they can't replicate this stuff on their own or grow tanook(sp?) clones on their own to farm them?
Finally saw it Friday night. Went in with tempered expectations but I was totally blown away. Massive improvement over the first.
Sigourney's the MVP. The most surprising thing though was how well Spider's arc worked for me. Hopefully Neytiri gets more time to shine in part 3.
Can't wait to see it again. James Cameron truly is the master.
Sigourney's the MVP. The most surprising thing though was how well Spider's arc worked for me. Hopefully Neytiri gets more time to shine in part 3.
Can't wait to see it again. James Cameron truly is the master.
At the end of the day he's pushing this environmentalist message analogous to our relationship with earth. And with that comes the realization that there's multiple resources being exploited for different uses. (And naturally they would be doing research into making the place inhabitable for humans as well)
Definitely agree with the latter part though. Feel like it should be briefly elaborated more on in the next one too
Lol yeah it's a complete after thought despite on paper being something of enormous consequence. And unobtanium is completely forgotten.
Watched this in 4dx. Was amazing. Initially hated the kids but ended up loving them all as it went on. Movie knew what it wanted to be and delivered.
I find it more likely Jake is dying in the next movie and Lo'ak is taking over as Our Guy after a timeskip (JC has already mentioned waiting to film 4&5 once the kids have aged).
I think it is worth rewatching before so you are emotionally invested in the characters
Well, yeah, of course I get the environmentalist messaging here, and it's about the only thing that you can really take away from the meta narrative. I mean they slaughter humans for about an hour straight and make them all look like assholes lol
Saw the move last night in high FPS, IMAX 3d. Thought the movie was visually beautiful, especially the water and sea creatures. The film was at it's best when it slowed down. Unfortunately I thought the story was trash, the characters mostly unlikeable/forgettable, with some weird/dumb twists like kid Tarzan even existing and the bad guy coming back. Jake is not a compelling character at all. I'm glad he took more of a back seat in this movie, but his whole arc was dumb. I don't think I'm interested in seeing the next one in theaters. The visuals aren't worth it to sit thru the rest.
Just got out and first impression is Cameron made a bad sequel. I think this is a step back in all regards compared to the first.
Visually I think the first film in more impressive. The art in that blows this movie out of the water.
I found myself bored during this and didn't think the action during the last act was impressive enough to make up for the rest of the movie. The action was better in the first also.
I want to see more of this world but really disappointed in this.
Visually I think the first film in more impressive. The art in that blows this movie out of the water.
I found myself bored during this and didn't think the action during the last act was impressive enough to make up for the rest of the movie. The action was better in the first also.
I want to see more of this world but really disappointed in this.