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entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
60,816
To be fair, Chang has acknowledge his terribleness.

One of his former employees wrote a review of his memoir on it is not pretty. It's a bummer for me since I've loved his restaurants since they debuted in 2004. The man has been massively influential on the American dining scene as well.

While Gordon Ramsey has made a joke of this. Many professionals hate this valorization of unprofessionalism, including one of my favorites, Kenji Lopez-Alt.

www.eater.com

David Chang’s Memoir Fails to Account for the Trauma He Caused Me

Chang’s memoir "Eat a Peach" grapples with the white-hot fury that defined most of his career at Momofuku. But for an employee on the receiving end of that rage, the book fails to truly reckon with the pain he left behind.

David Chang changed the way America eats. In 2004, Momofuku Noodle Bar, a ramen joint in NYC's East Village, ushered in a style of restaurant that's now recognizable everywhere: food that emphasized "what cooks really wanted to eat" with little regard for existing conventions; unabashed loudness; and a maniacal attention to detail and deliciousness, perhaps best encapsulated in its signature dish, a pork-belly bun that would be imitated across the country.

Along with Momofuku's rise has come Chang's own. He's now attached to some 15 restaurants spanning NYC to Toronto to Sydney (not counting his growing Fuku fried chicken enterprise), is the figurehead of a media and entertainment company, and, thanks in part to well-reviewed shows on PBS and Netflix, has become a recognizable public figure, even among those who have never eaten his food. After 15 years spent in the public eye, Chang has transcended his place in the so-called "bad boy" chef generation, and is now a leader in the restaurant industry. "He is probably the modern equivalent of Norman Mailer or Muhammad Ali in the 1960s and '70s," the New York Times's Pete Wells wrote in 2018, "somebody whose success in one part of the culture allows him to sound off on the rest of the culture and where it is heading."

And Chang does fail again and again, as he recounts in the book, especially when it comes to his anger. His memoir both acknowledges these failures and attempts to move past them, because absolution feels like the true goal here. "I hate that the anger has become my calling card," Chang writes. "With friends, family, my co-workers, and the media, my name has become synonymous with rage." Chang, always seeking to be in control, wants to reassert it over his own mythos, and to that end, he largely succeeds in Eat a Peach — as he always has in telling (and selling) his own story.

After all, the myth of Momofuku did not create itself. It took work. To fuel his high standards of creativity and perfection, Chang needed — and created — a combustible environment at Momofuku, aided by internal and external forces. "Conflict was fuel, and Momofuku was a gas-guzzling SUV," Chang writes. His pursuit of that conflict was often valorized by the media. A few weeks after I began working at Momofuku, Larissa MacFarquhar's March 2008 profile in the New Yorker, "On the Edge," dropped. That profile painted a robust picture of an angry chef who had trouble controlling his emotions: In response to a series of mistakes, none "egregious" in themselves, MacFarquhar writes that Chang had "screamed and yelled until a friend showed up and dragged him out of the restaurant, and his head still hurt nearly twenty-four hours later."

The recipients of Dave's anger — his employees — lack the same power to forget, or to leave the consideration of its impact to others. I vividly remember the day that a line cook, who could not have been more than 22, was brought to tears by Dave's rage for cooking what was deemed a subpar family meal: "I will scalp you," Dave screamed. "I will murder your fucking family!"

At a minimum, Chang has largely left out the problematic friendships that swirled around him during the most meteoric phase of Momofuku's rise. Missing from the majority of the book's narrative are the bad actors who had parties in "rape rooms" and then kicked backed at Ssäm Bar, the ones renowned for their bad behavior. He doesn't get to that part of the story until page 225, tying it specifically to the emergence of the #MeToo movement, and by then it feels like an afterthought.

Great review. A more critical one as memoirs can be very one sided obviously.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
I always roll my eyes at these bad boy chefs. No you are a little bitch with anger problems who nobody can say no to because you are the boss
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
60,816
It was an inside name. Horrible name obviously. We don't know if any sexual assault happened. But basically it seems that was there staff would "mingle".

I worked in the biz for a while and still have many friends who have been in it for more than a decade. I said what I said.

I agree with you, but that's not the point of the piece per se. It's from a perspective of someone at the other end of the tirades.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,349
Gentrified Brooklyn
I like this idea where the victims get to weigh on on people's redemption tours/media. We kind of confuse being sorry to making amends which should also be the goal, not assuaging the abuser's guilt. Particularly since here it looks like the victims are just a stop on his 'being a better person' journey as far as the book is concerned. Talk specifically about the incidents to give them and the victims weight, or at least maybe put them in the book dedication with apologies?

It's easy to be an asshole, leverage that assholeness into part of your brand, and disavow it it because it no longer works.
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,424
From what I know about a lot of these big name chefs, it really is a vicious cycle where it's how they were brought up or trainer, so a lot of them don't see it as an issue or perpetuate it themselves.

This dude sounds particularly messed though
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
60,816
Ramsey didn't create the idea of a maniacal taskmaster as a head chef, he was born in that environment; especially when you come from fine dining.
I agree. But he used it as his schtick and made it the mainstream thing.

He's not even that scary. His mentor was way worse and didn't need to scream.

 
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el jacko

Member
Dec 12, 2017
947
Yeah it is so easy to fall into that as the environment is so fast pace, hot, and fear of getting berated from management, front of the house or customers. You just flip out
There's also a need to get it perfect in that moment, so you rely entirely on muscle memory for like fifteen straight hours - and if you screw up, the whole line is screwed as well. It's an incredibly demanding job, especially at the higher end where there's also a ton of money flowing.

Like, a little bit of yelling in the moment is actually fine, I think, but when you see people explode, yell a ton even during breaks, harass subordinates, or physically assault them, then you're crossing a line which also indicates you have structural problems in the restaurant or kitchen management.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Rape rooms?

Fuck this guy.
Okay, what the "rape room" is referring to is this:

nypost.com

Embattled eatery Spotted Pig closes after ‘rape room’ allegations

Embattled West Village gastropub Spotted Pig has shuttered its doors — more than two years after allegations emerged about rampant sexual misconduct and a so-called “rape room.”

Embattled West Village gastropub the Spotted Pig has shuttered its doors — more than two years after allegations emerged about rampant sexual misconduct and a so-called "rape room," according to a report.
...
It was claimed that there was a third-floor room above the hot spot known as the "rape room," where drug-fueled parties were held and public sex was on display, according to the New York Times.

Chef Mario Batali, an investor in the Spotted Pig, allegedly hung out in the "rape room" and was alleged to have sexually assaulted an unconscious woman.
It seems to be saying that people like Tony Nassif and Mario Batali would hang out at Chang's restaurants and that Chang knew they were up to shady shit (although to what extent is unclear), and that Chang doesn't mention them in his memoir because he's whitewashing things -- not that Chang participated in any "rape rooms" himself.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
60,816
There's also a need to get it perfect in that moment, so you rely entirely on muscle memory for like fifteen straight hours - and if you screw up, the whole line is screwed as well. It's an incredibly demanding job, especially at the higher end where there's also a ton of money flowing.

Like, a little bit of yelling in the moment is actually fine, I think, but when you see people explode, yell a ton even during breaks, harass subordinates, or physically assault them, then you're crossing a line which also indicates you have structural problems in the restaurant or kitchen management.
Guys, are you even reading the excerpts lol.

This not just Dave getting heated during service. This is for a damn family meal, which no one gives a fuck about even in fine dining. You scarf it in 5 minutes standing up.

The recipients of Dave's anger — his employees — lack the same power to forget, or to leave the consideration of its impact to others. I vividly remember the day that a line cook, who could not have been more than 22, was brought to tears by Dave's rage for cooking what was deemed a subpar family meal: "I will scalp you," Dave screamed. "I will murder your fucking family!"

No one reads anymore lol.

The article has way more stuff too. Again, this is not a chef screaming at a line cook that got in the weeds.
 

Desi

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,214
You ain't have heat at family meal? People make eachother souffles of coffee grinds (telling em it's a chocolate dish) just to joke on peeps at family meal.

Edit: damn! spotted pig was my joint whenever I was in the city and wanted to grab something to eat. More I can only imagine it like that scene in "Requiem for a Dream"
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
60,816
You ain't have heat at family meal? People make eachother souffles of coffee grinds (telling em it's a chocolate dish) just to joke on peeps at family meal.
A chef never told me he would murder my fucking family at family meal. No. We barely had time to eat it. Nor have I ever seen anyone berated for a shitty family meal. It's family meal. It's just fuel. No one if making filet mignons for family meals. It's ground beef dishes, chicken, rice, bread, soups, the cheap stuff.
 
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astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,253
I worked my fair share of service industry jobs as a teen and in my early 20s. Kitchen porter, chef, waiter, bar tender. It was about 50/50 whether you got a head chef who would lose their shit at you.

I've no idea what it's like now, but it did feel like a lot of head chefs were using this meme to justify being an abusive fuck.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,161
This not just Dave getting heated during service. This is for a damn family meal, which no one gives a fuck about even in fine dining. You scarf it in 5 minutes standing up.
Are you sure that's right as I read it as the meal his chef made was so poor that it wasn't even good enough for a family dinner never mind a professional restaurant?
 

Deleted member 46493

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I'll be honest - have met many male chefs and they all have anger issues like there. Not excusing it, but not surprising.
 
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entremet

entremet

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Are you sure that's right as I read it as the meal his chef made was so poor that it wasn't even good enough for a family dinner never mind a professional restaurant?
No one gave a shit about family meal and I worked at a top restuarant. One better reviewed than David Chang joint. It's a misplace of priorities.

They cared about service. Again, family meal was just fuel and you ate it in minutes, rushing to get back to your prep or get a cigarette break.

Kitchens do have different cultures. That is true.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,161
I've definitely noticed a change in the types of chef you see on TV now, hopefully it's representative of a change in the actual industry.

I've read some horror stories about not only mental bullying but physical abuse. I remember reading about Tom Aikens holding a burning hot pallet knife onto a young lads arm because he didn't have enough burns on him to work in his kitchen!
 

Deleted member 8468

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Oct 26, 2017
9,109
Not defending it, but this happens in probably over 90% of restaurants worldwide.

Bullshit stat of course, but I've worked in restaurants long enough. It is not a kind job to anyone involved.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,161
No one gave a shit about family meal and I worked at a top restuarant. One better reviewed than David Chang joint. It's a misplace of priorities.

They cared about service. Again, family meal was just fuel and you ate it in minutes, rushing to get back to your prep or get a cigarette break.

And again, that's not how you treat an employee either. Come on.
Don't "Come on" me, I wasn't justifying or condoning his actions just pointing out that my interpretation differs from yours.
 

Deleted member 2317

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Oct 25, 2017
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As someone who's worked line cook and expo in New York City, yeah, people in the kitchen get off on being fucking psychopaths. Sure, they may hate themselves afterward and start drowning it in alcohol or drugs, but kitchens are full of power tripping bosses and egos, this place is made for that shit.

I still love/hate kitchens though.
 
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entremet

entremet

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As someone who's worked line cook and expo in New York City, yeah, people in the kitchen get off on being fucking psychopaths. Sure, they may hate themselves afterward and start drowning it in alcohol or drugs, but kitchens are full of power tripping bosses and egos, this place is made for that shit.

I still love/hate kitchens though.
I agree. I only left because the pay was crap. Especially when using hours worked formula. Many chefs, and it takes time to be a chef, make around 100-120k at restaurants. Some more. Hotels pay the best since many are unionized.

But you're working 80 plus hours weeks.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Guys, are you even reading the excerpts lol.

This not just Dave getting heated during service. This is for a damn family meal, which no one gives a fuck about even in fine dining. You scarf it in 5 minutes standing up.



No one reads anymore lol.

The article has way more stuff too. Again, this is not a chef screaming at a line cook that got in the weeds.
A close friend has worked the kitchen, line cook and then pastry chef, at a couple three Michelin Star restaurants in NYC, so I've loved to hear his war stories.

He's never had a war story about a head chef going apeshit like this about a kitchen family meal thing.

Messing up for customers, sure. But not for the staff.
 
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entremet

entremet

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Oct 26, 2017
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A close friend has worked the kitchen, line cook and then pastry chef, at a couple three Michelin Star restaurants in NYC, so I've loved to hear his war stories.

He's never had a war story about a head chef going apeshit about that kitchen family meal thing.
Of course not. No one cares about family meal other than David Chang apparently.

Many cooks skip it completely due to work pressure. You're tasting crap all day anyway. You're not always hungry for it. And it's a restaurant. There's food everywhere lol. You're not starving.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,113
I've definitely noticed a change in the types of chef you see on TV now, hopefully it's representative of a change in the actual industry.

I've read some horror stories about not only mental bullying but physical abuse. I remember reading about Tom Aikens holding a burning hot pallet knife onto a young lads arm because he didn't have enough burns on him to work in his kitchen!
you come at me with a hot knife you better know how to fucking fight with it
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Of course not. No one cares about family meal other than David Chang. Many cooks skip it completely due to work pressure. You're tasting crap all day anyway. You're not always hungry for it.
Yeah the only thing he cared about was the post-work 2am drinks, which I attended once with him and you people are alcoholics. I'll have to ask him if he's heard stories like this from people he knew who worked in the Momofuku kitchens.

Also -- is the candy and a case of Tecate (or any beer) for the kitchen staff a standard industry thing? I've gotten used to bringing his crew gifts... and then getting the VIP treatment.
 
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
60,816
Yeah the only thing he cared about was the post-work 2am drinks, which I attended once with him and you people are alcoholics. I'll have to ask him if he's heard stories like this from people he knew who worked in the Momofuku kitchens.

Also -- is the candy and a case of Tecate (or any beer) for the kitchen staff a standard industry thing? I've gotten used to bringing his crew gifts... and then getting the VIP treatment.
Not the kitchen I worked it. I worked for Jean George. French, old school dude. He ran a tight ship organizationally. He was not running kitchens anymore. His chefs did. But he would come over and inspect his kitchens. Great dude, too. Intense, but not a screamer.
 

TheLetdown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,818
I worked in the biz for a while and still have many friends who have been in it for more than a decade. I said what I said.

Same and I am with you that I've seen some real aggressive shit. Not just the threats of violence and several instances of actual violence but also heavy sexual harassment, from the top down.

Some good times and camaraderie, too. It's not all hell.


With respect to the topic, Chang has been honest and vocal about this for many years, and often discusses it while talking about his mental health struggles. This abusive behavior being part and parcel with that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,595
Racoon City
Yeaaaaaa see I would have lost my job and probably gone to jail because one thing you're not going to do to me is yell at me any kind of way. My own father and drill sergeants would never yell at me so I'll be damned if "bad boy" chef did.

He needs to take his millions and take his ass to therapy. Personally I'll never feel bad if any of these chefs gets their shit rocked
 

Duane

Unshakable Resolve
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,470
I was in the business for years (front of the house, but still), and saw a disproportionate amount of the "total asshole on a never ending power trip" head chefs. Not All Head Chefs, etc, of course, but I can anecdotally support the notion that it's a position that gets more than its share of assholes.
 
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Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,161
https://britishstreetfood.co.uk/2011/09/stand-away-from-the-palette-knife-tom-and-nuno/

Osborne, who was in the kitchen during the 'branding' incident, understands what stress can do. "I showed my sous chef – and best friend – how to plate a dish a couple of times" says Osborne. "But one day he went to plate it a different way. In a fit of rage I picked up a whole pile of plates, and hurled them onto the floor." At the time, Osborne was working from 6.30am to 1am – six days a week – and struggling to hold on to Pied A Terre's two Michelin stars. "Stress cost me my best friend" he says. "And that still hurts."

"All I did was bark" says Wareing. "Hour after hour after fucking hour. My kitchen was almost a torture chamber. Barking was the only way I knew how to get [the staff] to do things. I didn't dare love them. I didn't dare become their friend. It didn't cross my mind to get know them as individuals. It was 'I'm going to torture you to get what I want out of you. And when you're on the floor, at your lowest, I'm going to leave you there.' I was meant to bring them back up, and dust them down. But I didn't always do it…..

"Until there was just the two of us" says Wareing. "Me and my sous chef – a French Algerian. Hard as a brick wall. A skinhead with hobnail boots. Number one and number two, and the kitchen was scared shitless of both of us. Everyone left. And, when they were all gone, I was like 'Why the fuck have they left me?'". The frightening thing was that it took Ramsay, a man not noted for his inter-personal skills, to tell Wareing that he needed to calm it down. But it worked. Wareing is now a shining example to his industry.

But the physicality of Le Gavroche was always part of the fun. Marcus Wareing remembers seeing his friend, chef Stephen Terry, getting stabbed in the leg with a fork by a young female chef. "Whether it was an accident or not, I don't know" says Wareing. "Fucking hilarious, because it was Stephen Terry. I remember Michel Roux used to walk past all the cooks with a blow torch under their arses. He would stop at one until his pants were fucking on fire. You shouldn't put a flame under someone's arse, but it was hilarious…."

And, as Gordon Ramsay found out when he trained at Joel Robuchon in Paris, chefs in France didn't have it any easier. Not during service. "Robuchon got hold of the plate, and threw it at me" said Ramsay. "It hit the side of my face. My ear was blocked with hot food, my face was burnt, and there was ravioli all over the place. I apologized, and started all over again." At Guy Savoy, Gemma Tuley – now Head Chef at Arch One – was dragged round the kitchen by her pony tail. All because she didn't speak French. So she cut off her hair.

Atherton, who is a Ramsay protegee, has witnessed violence in kitchens all over the world. "Once I was beaten to a pulp. But the restaurant I was working in at the time had a three-year waiting list to get in. I wasn't just going to give up. I asked if I could change my jacket – it was hanging off my back. But it was 'No – finish fucking service'. I came home with bruises all over my chest." He was rewarded with a Head Chef's position by the age of 24. "But I had guys by the throat" he says. "I remember head butting a guy and knocking him down the fire escape. I couldn't control myself."

Heston Blumenthal has always struggled with his anger. "It's one thing to go across to someone and smack them" he says. "When I was younger, that's what I did. But the really psychotic stuff started around the opening of the Fat Duck. I was running out of money. And I was stressed. I could have hurt somebody really badly and enjoyed it. I chased somebody in the car – in reverse. And I ran a Bedford Rascal off the road." It's difficult to believe that this is the man who has created one of the world's most elevated dining experiences. "I don't know where it all came from" he says.

That attitude isn't dead. Not quite. Despite the fact that women have better palates than men, and a greater eye for plating up, they are still under-represented in the kitchen. "They just don't have the physical strength" says [Marco Pierre] White. "It's a man's world. They're not as physically strong. You do have to be physically strong. All the pans you have to pick up – the hours you have to work. Look at the Olympics. What time does a woman run the 100 metres in? Compared to a man? You have to be physically and mentally strong in a kitchen."

Times are changing. And there are now kitchens out there noted for their sense of calm. Including the Fat Duck – Blumenthal hasn't raised his voice in six years. But amongst some, there is nostalgia for the old ways. "When I cooked, what did I look like?" asks White. "Why? I worked hard. What do today's chefs look like? Do they look like they give of themselves? Like they break their balls? Ask the boys how hard I worked. You don't see the burns on the arms. Look at a chef's hands, and see how hard they work. The cuts. The scratches. It's a different breed these days."
The article's a few years old but it's disappointing to see how many chef's still seem to look back fondly at those times and hold views that I'll politely call outdated!
 

Alucrid

Chicken Photographer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,492
good read

Some have asked me what I, personally, would like to see as the denouement to this story. What does restitution look like to those of us harmed by Dave and what he built? Yes, it was different then, and our culture has changed, and I understand that he is working toward becoming a better person. I also believe that he owes a tithe beyond an apology. (Releasing every former employee from any nondisclosure agreement that prevents them from talking about what they experienced at Momofuku might be a start.) For all that Dave has edited in and out of this narrative, what he cannot change is the trauma left in his wake. The one thing he can offer up that is commensurate with the scope and scale of the grief he has caused is the space he occupies in restaurants and in culture: He can cede it to someone who will use it to change this toxic industry that has broken so many of us.

hope that happens.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
I vividly remember the day that a line cook, who could not have been more than 22, was brought to tears by Dave's rage for cooking what was deemed a subpar family meal: "I will scalp you," Dave screamed. "I will murder your fucking family!"
What the fuck. What a piece of shit.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,343
The restaraunt industry is a toxic boys club. anthony bourdain became famous writing a book selling this behavior as sexy back in the 90s. Its not surprising, most chefs were trained in kitchens exactly like this and perpetuated the behavior when they got one. It's changing nationwide right now (Paul Qui lost his empire completely).

It seems like from all the interviews Ive seen with Chang he seems to know who he was and has worked on what decisions and personal trauma got him to that point. He seems like he's worked hard on not being that person anymore, but I also agree with the author that it doesn't clear him of what he did to people and his tell-all shouldn't be a one-sided narrative.
 

Night

Late to the party
Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,219
Clearwater, FL
I love cooking. I'm pretty good at it and from a young age I considered becoming a chef but a lot of these horror stories (even back in 2005 they were around) scared me off from the world of cooking. I'm not into masochism.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,343
Yeaaaaaa see I would have lost my job and probably gone to jail because one thing you're not going to do to me is yell at me any kind of way. My own father and drill sergeants would never yell at me so I'll be damned if "bad boy" chef did.

He needs to take his millions and take his ass to therapy. Personally I'll never feel bad if any of these chefs gets their shit rocked

I mean, to be fair, he did that. He had an abusive father and he has admitted to mimicking behavior from his childhood and without specificity has said this kind of stuff happened in his kitchen, and has semi-recently been diagnosed as bipolar and at least *seems* to have made changes in his life to become better to those around him. From the outside it appears he had some really severe mental health issues that were undiagnosed and untreated and he took it out on those around him. Which is obviously not an excuse for hurting those around you, and I absolutely think part of his current press junket needs to include those left in his wake and not just a pat on the back for Chang.

Of course, its a media empire at this point so a callous worldview could say that its an image rehab around someone who is now the head of a 9 figure empire.