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ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
It's less then ideal, and will make 7nm SOCs look miles ahead in terms of efficiency. However it is the most realistic option true
I mean, how rare is it that a more dense node is less ideal than a dense one (20nm comes to mind)? But given what we know about 7nm, it was probably too expensive around the time a contract was written up. It's why Nvidia moved to 8nm in the first place
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
Wonder how they perform
The Snapdragon 765 seems to perform similarly to the Snapdragon 835. (I know this is off-topic, but I hope Qualcomm's next upper mid-range SoCs perform competitively against the Exynos 1080.)

I have no intention to bring any drama, so I'm going to put what I'm about to say as a spoiler.
But I wonder if people are going to demand AMD to make an Arm based SoC that's competitive against Nvidia's Arm based SoCs, so that Nintendo can ditch Nvidia for AMD, given Nvidia's really shitty response and action towards Hardware Unboxed, biases aside. Just to be clear, I don't think AMD is competitive when it comes to one feature that I think is important for mobile devices when it comes to game performance, which is a super sampling feature that's similar to DLSS. But don't get me wrong, I'm happy AMD's finally competitive when it comes to consumer GPUs.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
The only reason why AMD would make an ARM soc is to have something in case Windows on ARM takes off. Nintendo business would be icing but not something they'll chase after
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
The only reason why AMD would make an ARM soc is to have something in case Windows on ARM takes off. Nintendo business would be icing but not something they'll chase after
Yeah, AMD was a bad business partner for Nintendo, from my perspective, Nintendo doesn't build GPUs, AMD does, so when Nintendo went to AMD to buy a GPU for a low powered Wii U, AMD gave them a 2008 architecture, and a year later gave Sony a 2012 architecture for less simply because Sony asked for the best GPU available at that price?

Nvidia goes to Nintendo and shows off Tegra K1, Nintendo gets Tegra X1 for half the price of the Wii U's SoC. Nvidia also future proofs the Switch enough that it is able to see ports from modern games. Just a vastly different experience, before Wii U, Nintendo was using ArtX technology that was built for the Gamecube, and then modified for the Wii. I think a major reason the Switch is such a valuable platform, is because of the performance that it can meet, which would have been impossible with AMD at the time, and with DLSS and RT performance being better on Nvidia, as well as lower memory bandwidth and capacity required for Nvidia architecture over AMD, the huge down grade towards AMD would be a death sentence for Nintendo's dedicated gaming business.

I think in just another 10 years or so, graphics will not matter much anymore, it's also worth noting that more and more games are starting to go to mobile, and soon that billion+ user market, will be a big focus for most of the major publishers in the industry, so graphics are not going to win in the end.
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,381
UK
The Snapdragon 765 seems to perform similarly to the Snapdragon 835. (I know this is off-topic, but I hope Qualcomm's next upper mid-range SoCs perform competitively against the Exynos 1080.)

I have no intention to bring any drama, so I'm going to put what I'm about to say as a spoiler.
But I wonder if people are going to demand AMD to make an Arm based SoC that's competitive against Nvidia's Arm based SoCs, so that Nintendo can ditch Nvidia for AMD, given Nvidia's really shitty response and action towards Hardware Unboxed, biases aside. Just to be clear, I don't think AMD is competitive when it comes to one feature that I think is important for mobile devices when it comes to game performance, which is a super sampling feature that's similar to DLSS. But don't get me wrong, I'm happy AMD's finally competitive when it comes to consumer GPUs.
Nvidia have been acting very shady in the industry for 20 years now. One review channel getting burned by them will unfortunately not result in anything in the grand scheme of things.
As for demand for an AMD ARM SOC, i've only ever seen that from fanboys on Reddit. What their customers actually want are new X64 based embedded SOCs, since Intel currently has a monopoly in that segment.
Finally, AMD is currently up to their necks with various X64 and GPU projects, an ARM line on the side would be too much.
 

Onix555

Member
Apr 23, 2019
3,381
UK
There's a rumour that AMD's working on a Apple M1 competitor, although there's no mention on if the SoC is x86 or Arm.

This feels more like an AMD fan that got their pants in a twist over the M1. Which in of itself makes little sense since the M1 is not a commercial chip, as well as the 4700U already being an 8 core 15w SOC.

I'm going to put this in my "believe when I see pile". Reminds me of that dumb "Ryzen C1" leak.
 

fwd-bwd

Member
Jul 14, 2019
726
There's a rumour that AMD's working on a Apple M1 competitor, although there's no mention on if the SoC is x86 or Arm.
Further down the Twitter thread, the person confirmed that it's ARM.
I'm going to put this in my "believe when I see pile". Reminds me of that dumb "Ryzen C1" leak.
It might be a lab project to keep in the vault for the x86 doomsday scenario.
digitimes.com

New Nvidia GPU in short supply due to unsatisfactory yield at Samsung, sources say

Nvidia's new GeForce RTX 30 GPUs have been in tight supply due to unsatisfactory 8nm process yield rates at its foundry partner Samsung, according to industry sources.
A strike against the Samsung 8nm theory?
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
Further down the Twitter thread, the person confirmed that it's ARM.
I assume this is what you're referring to?


digitimes.com

New Nvidia GPU in short supply due to unsatisfactory yield at Samsung, sources say

Nvidia's new GeForce RTX 30 GPUs have been in tight supply due to unsatisfactory 8nm process yield rates at its foundry partner Samsung, according to industry sources.
A strike against the Samsung 8nm theory?
Considering that Nvidia said that "We [Nvidia] do have supply constraints and our supply constraints do expand past what we are seeing in terms of wafers and silicon, but yes some constrains are in substrates and components", I don't think so.

And I imagine TSMC's 7 nm nodes are also seeing supply constraints due to overwhelming demand for the next-gen consoles, AMD's Ryzen 4 CPUs, and AMD's RDNA 2 GPUs. So I think TSMC's 7 nm nodes are an unlikely option for Nvidia.

I do think that Samsung's 7 nm nodes are an option for Nvidia since Qualcomm's using Samsung's 7 nm nodes for the Snapdragon 765/765G/768G.
 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,123
The only reason why AMD would make an ARM soc is to have something in case Windows on ARM takes off. Nintendo business would be icing but not something they'll chase after
The reason is Apple's move to Arm for their laptops and workstations.
Arm being a "clean" RISC architecture always had the potential to scale considerably better in perf/watt not only in mobile (where the winner is obvious for years now) but in DC (where there were several attempts of getting Arm into with the latest and biggest push being Nv's purchase of Arm as a whole) and PC.
The latter two are obviously AMD's bread and butter markets, and with x86 problem being "solved" by them for the time being they could and likely will look into building some Arm-based products too, but not in the form of mobile SoCs.
Apple paving the way here is a huge shift for the whole industry. When you have a laptop from Apple which manage to run twice longer with the same performance as an x86 laptop would there's a huge opportunity for all companies involved. Especially now, with Windows on Arm slowly moving from crap to okay state.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
The reason is Apple's move to Arm for their laptops and workstations.
Arm being a "clean" RISC architecture always had the potential to scale considerably better in perf/watt not only in mobile (where the winner is obvious for years now) but in DC (where there were several attempts of getting Arm into with the latest and biggest push being Nv's purchase of Arm as a whole) and PC.
The latter two are obviously AMD's bread and butter markets, and with x86 problem being "solved" by them for the time being they could and likely will look into building some Arm-based products too, but not in the form of mobile SoCs.
Apple paving the way here is a huge shift for the whole industry. When you have a laptop from Apple which manage to run twice longer with the same performance as an x86 laptop would there's a huge opportunity for all companies involved. Especially now, with Windows on Arm slowly moving from crap to okay state.
Yeah, AMD is starting to experiment with making ARM chips again because ARM has reached a point where it could soon become an existential threat to their CPU business, not because they're trying to get their chips in any particular device (though I'm sure they wouldn't mind increasing their laptop market share). The x86 to ARM transition has been slowly moving for a while, and Apple proving that ARM is viable in PCs is only going to speed things up. We still probably have a few more milestones left to go before things start to completely collapse for x86, but AMD is going to want to be ready before that happens.

Kind of unfortunate timing for them, really. Right as Zen is really hitting its stride, they have to start seriously thinking about having an exit strategy because there's a very real risk the entire ISA could fade into obscurity within the next decade.
 

NineTailSage

Member
Jan 26, 2020
1,449
Hidden Leaf
I mean, how rare is it that a more dense node is less ideal than a dense one (20nm comes to mind)? But given what we know about 7nm, it was probably too expensive around the time a contract was written up. It's why Nvidia moved to 8nm in the first place

It's probably a combination of things, but I don't believe there are any high powered EUV devices made just yet right?
Which is why the technology is used mostly in mobile low powered computing devices (which the Switch would fall into).
Samsung's 8nm and TSMC's 7nm DUV just lends credence to this matter, since the current CPU's/GPU's from AMD and Nvidia are made on these processes.


Yeah, AMD was a bad business partner for Nintendo, from my perspective, Nintendo doesn't build GPUs, AMD does, so when Nintendo went to AMD to buy a GPU for a low powered Wii U, AMD gave them a 2008 architecture, and a year later gave Sony a 2012 architecture for less simply because Sony asked for the best GPU available at that price?

Nvidia goes to Nintendo and shows off Tegra K1, Nintendo gets Tegra X1 for half the price of the Wii U's SoC. Nvidia also future proofs the Switch enough that it is able to see ports from modern games. Just a vastly different experience, before Wii U, Nintendo was using ArtX technology that was built for the Gamecube, and then modified for the Wii. I think a major reason the Switch is such a valuable platform, is because of the performance that it can meet, which would have been impossible with AMD at the time, and with DLSS and RT performance being better on Nvidia, as well as lower memory bandwidth and capacity required for Nvidia architecture over AMD, the huge down grade towards AMD would be a death sentence for Nintendo's dedicated gaming business.

I think in just another 10 years or so, graphics will not matter much anymore, it's also worth noting that more and more games are starting to go to mobile, and soon that billion+ user market, will be a big focus for most of the major publishers in the industry, so graphics are not going to win in the end.

Not to mention that Nintendo kind of fell into business with AMD when AMD bought Art-X and rolled them into the Radeon team way back when, but two were definitely not a good pairing.



Further down the Twitter thread, the person confirmed that it's ARM.

It might be a lab project to keep in the vault for the x86 doomsday scenario.
digitimes.com

New Nvidia GPU in short supply due to unsatisfactory yield at Samsung, sources say

Nvidia's new GeForce RTX 30 GPUs have been in tight supply due to unsatisfactory 8nm process yield rates at its foundry partner Samsung, according to industry sources.
A strike against the Samsung 8nm theory?

There's definitely multiple issues mucking things up in the supply chain (this year as a whole doesn't help much either), but it seems like they had much better stock of the RTX 3060Ti over both the 3080 and 3070. A lot of these 200-300 watt monolithic chips were bound to struggle on the smaller process nodes and the Switch using lower power works in its favor to get better yields. I'm sure Nvidia's Hopper and AMD's MCM solution should resolve the larger issue plaguing the more powerful GPU race.
 

fwd-bwd

Member
Jul 14, 2019
726
I assume this is what you're referring to?
"ya"
blogs.windows.com

Introducing x64 emulation in preview for Windows 10 on ARM PCs to the Windows Insider Program

Updated 11/16/2021: x64 emulation for Windows is now generally available in Windows 11. For those interested in experiencing this, a PC running Windows 11 on Arm is required. Today, we're releasing the first preview of x64 emulation
MS just announced their x86 emulation for ARM Windows. I wonder if they are secretly working on Xbox emulation too.
 

Pokemaniac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,944
"ya"
blogs.windows.com

Introducing x64 emulation in preview for Windows 10 on ARM PCs to the Windows Insider Program

Updated 11/16/2021: x64 emulation for Windows is now generally available in Windows 11. For those interested in experiencing this, a PC running Windows 11 on Arm is required. Today, we're releasing the first preview of x64 emulation
MS just announced their x86 emulation for ARM Windows. I wonder if they are secretly working on Xbox emulation too.
They've had x86 emulation for a while, this is for x86_64. That would probably be the most relevant one if they were secretly planning on switching Xbox to ARM, though.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
controversial prediction:

CoD Warfare will be the first (and only) CoD on Switch and will be Pro only. the one thing that's holding this game back is the cpu
 

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
controversial prediction:

CoD Warfare will be the first (and only) CoD on Switch and will be Pro only. the one thing that's holding this game back is the cpu
Warfare? Modern warfare remake?


I do think cod mobile is more than possible on regular switch. 60fps for the multiplayer modes and maybe 30fps for battle royale.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Warfare? Modern warfare remake?


I do think cod mobile is more than possible on regular switch. 60fps for the multiplayer modes and maybe 30fps for battle royale.
I'm not sure at this point. Might depend on how they updated the game over the years. Cpu requirements for mobile games might have gone way up since even mid range phones are sporting A76s and A77s. Genshin Impact still ain't on switch despite it being announced for it, probably for the same reason
 

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
I'm not sure at this point. Might depend on how they updated the game over the years. Cpu requirements for mobile games might have gone way up since even mid range phones are sporting A76s and A77s. Genshin Impact still ain't on switch despite it being announced for it, probably for the same reason
Cod mobile runs on ps3/360 graphics, and Wii u did not have any trouble running cod bo 2 and cod ghosts, from a gpu standpoit. Wii u just had a weak cpu, which caused more framedrops than 360. Switch handheld mode is at least powerful as Wii u, at its lowest profile, but with a much better cpu and faster ram. Should be fine for regular multiplayer modes. I do think there would be issues in battle royale though. 30fps limited with pop ins similar to fort nite.
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
You're probably thinking of the shit my dumbass did.
I overclock my console to 1267MHz GPU + 2295MHz CPU, power consumption was stupid (over 35W with just GPU, though I was doing it somewhat "improperly")
Actually, I think Look over there is talking about a rumour from Clien about Nintendo requesting Nvidia to fabricate the Tegra X1 at TSMC's 7 nm nodes despite TSMC and Nvidia saying that it would be difficult to exceed the Cortex-A57's limit of 1.9 GHz, but power consumption turned out higher than expected, especially when increasing the Cortex-A57's frequency from 1.9 GHz to 2.52 GHz.
 
Nov 1, 2020
685
Yea, I was thinking of that rumor from Clien.
Although cranking up the CPU and GPU like that (on a hacked Switch I presume) would also blow my mind.
 

Vash63

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,682
The reason is Apple's move to Arm for their laptops and workstations.
Arm being a "clean" RISC architecture always had the potential to scale considerably better in perf/watt not only in mobile (where the winner is obvious for years now) but in DC (where there were several attempts of getting Arm into with the latest and biggest push being Nv's purchase of Arm as a whole) and PC.
The latter two are obviously AMD's bread and butter markets, and with x86 problem being "solved" by them for the time being they could and likely will look into building some Arm-based products too, but not in the form of mobile SoCs.
Apple paving the way here is a huge shift for the whole industry. When you have a laptop from Apple which manage to run twice longer with the same performance as an x86 laptop would there's a huge opportunity for all companies involved. Especially now, with Windows on Arm slowly moving from crap to okay state.

I agree completely with this. It's ridiculous that so many people act like Nintendo should jump to AMD just because of all the PS5/XBSX hype. x86 is not something that they're missing out on. Switch CPU isn't weak because it's ARM, it's weak because it's early 2015-era ARM, pre big.LITTLE (and even then I think it does remarkably well compared to last gen's Jaguars).
 

NineTailSage

Member
Jan 26, 2020
1,449
Hidden Leaf
This is an interesting Tweet from kopite7kimi, if true it definitely makes me wonder what's going on at Nvidia to not push for MCM as the next phase if both Intel and supposedly AMD are driving that way. It's definitely way to early for anything to be certain and in stone but interesting nonetheless...

 

dgrdsv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,123
This is an interesting Tweet from kopite7kimi, if true it definitely makes me wonder what's going on at Nvidia to not push for MCM as the next phase if both Intel and supposedly AMD are driving that way.
They probably know that gaming cards as MCM will be a dumpster fire. Or you can argue that random guys on Twitter know better how to design GPUs than Nvidia.

It's definitely way to early for anything to be certain and in stone but interesting nonetheless...
There is nothing new in this tweet.
I've said already a few pages back - we know jack shit about NV's plans.
We don't know what Hopper is and how it is related to Ampere.
We don't know if Hopper is the next gaming architecture or not.
We don't know what NV plans are for the next architecture for either gaming or DC.
NV is using "MCM" in the form of GPU+HBM integration since Pascal but only for DC products.
Will they expand this into several logic dies in one package with Hopper?
Is Hopper a name of the architecture or the MCM with several logic dies on it? Which architecture do these dies use?
How will this affect gaming side of their lineup? It's been almost 5 years since GP100 came out with HBM and yet there are no gaming GPUs from NV with HBM still.
Basically we don't know anything on future NV plans.
And it's fairly clear that kopite7kimi doesn't either.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,056
I agree completely with this. It's ridiculous that so many people act like Nintendo should jump to AMD just because of all the PS5/XBSX hype. x86 is not something that they're missing out on. Switch CPU isn't weak because it's ARM, it's weak because it's early 2015-era ARM, pre big.LITTLE (and even then I think it does remarkably well compared to last gen's Jaguars).

Is there a specific series of posts/discussion on that? I think for the most part, at least here, it's accepted AMD has no competitive SoC package to offer Nintendo, and they do not have a DLSS solution. I have seen tweets and comments around AMD making something for a portable PS5 (though how that's feasible is suspect, even if there is an actual product from AMD, it's probably going to be a portable PS4)
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
a "portable ps5" isn't exactly feasible anymore. the ps5 (and xbox) shot for the fucking moon with their specs. you can get by as long as your game isn't so cpu bound, but that will only go so far. there won't be a portable system from Sony any time soon.

Renoir and its successors could be decent handheld chips, as we've seen from Cyberpunk running on Renoir, but for the sake of battery life, there's no way for x86 to compete there
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
Switch CPU isn't weak because it's ARM, it's weak because it's early 2015-era ARM, pre big.LITTLE (and even then I think it does remarkably well compared to last gen's Jaguars).
I think you're confusing big.LITTLE with DynamIQ, because Cortex-A57 does support big.LITTLE. It's just that big.LITTLE doesn't allow heterogeneous CPU cores to be simultaneously active, which I presume is the reason why Nvidia disabled the Cortex-A53 cores. DynamIQ, unlike big.LITTLE, does allow heterogeneous CPU cores in one cluster to be used simultaneously, but DynamIQ is incompatiable with big.LITTLE and are only supported by the Cortex-A75 and the Cortex-A55, or newer.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
big.LITTLE gen1 didn't however, multiple clusters were available in gen 2 implementations, Switch could have been updated for it, as A57 can do it AFAIK, but wasn't, so the 4 A53 cores, which are still there, but not visible (Nvidia advertises A53 cores @ 1.3GHz in Tegra X1+ "Mariko" for their Shield TV Pro).
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,056
I agree completely with this. It's ridiculous that so many people act like Nintendo should jump to AMD just because of all the PS5/XBSX hype. x86 is not something that they're missing out on. Switch CPU isn't weak because it's ARM, it's weak because it's early 2015-era ARM, pre big.LITTLE (and even then I think it does remarkably well compared to last gen's Jaguars).
iirc per DF's Switch review at launch when they were building a Switch equivalent PC, they commented Switch's A57 cores had better performance compare to Jaguar cores, but Switch's A57 were also only clocked at 1Ghz, meaning per core it matched an equivalent Jaguar core. Had they been clocked higher, the per-core performance on Switch would have exceed the per core performance of the CPU cores in the XONE /PS4. It wouldn't make up for the fewer cores overall and not everything is CPU bound on Switch.
 
Apr 11, 2020
1,235
Is anything actually using 7LPP (Samsung)?

I thought it kind of faded out of existence in favour of 5LPP.

It's less then ideal, and will make 7nm SOCs look miles ahead in terms of efficiency. However it is the most realistic option true.
E990/ snapdragon S76x series and E1080/2100/S888 and the new S86x series will use 1 Samsung 7 / 6 / 5 EUV node which is the same node with different add-ons.
 
Apr 11, 2020
1,235
why expect 7nm? TSMC's capacity was filled up, Nvidia was beefing with them over price, and whatever slots open up that Nvidia can fill will probably be taken up by the A100, which they are behind on supply
Samsung have plenty of capacity. Especially on their new V1 line. 7/6 and 5 nm are all available. Yield will be good for <130mm2 chips.
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
Jon from Spawn Wave uploaded a YouTube video today talking about what he thinks the next Nintendo Switch model releasing in 2021 would be. I'm sure many people would disagree with Jon, but I thought it was worth discussing. (The bolded is my opinion.)

  • Jon thinks Nintendo would name the next Nintendo Switch model releasing in 2021 the "New Nintendo Switch" since he thinks it worked for the New Nintendo 3DS, but he wouldn't mind it being called the "Super Nintendo Switch" (I disagree with Jon about the "New" moniker working for the New Nintendo 3DS)
  • Jon thinks there are two things Nintendo doesn't want to do with the next Nintendo Switch model
    • Jon thinks Nintendo doesn't want to spend a lot of money on the next Nintendo Switch model since Nintendo would prefer to spend a lot of money on the successor as technology continues to improves throughout the years leading up to the successor
    • Jon thinks Nintendo doesn't want the performance jump between the Nintendo Switch and the next Nintendo Switch model to be too big since doing so would make the performance jump from the next Nintendo Switch model to the successor seem like less of a jump, which he argues is the case when going form the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X (I completely disagree with Jon about the performance jump between the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X seeming like less of a jump since the CPU on the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X is significantly better than the CPU on the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X)
  • Jon thinks Nintendo isn't too interested about third party developers developing games exclusive to the next Nintendo Switch model since it didn't work out for the New Nintendo 3DS (except for Minecraft since Minecraft sells no matter the hardware)
  • Jon thinks people who want the next Nintendo Switch model wants Nintendo Switch games to load faster and run better, which is the case for Nintendo 3DS games running on the New Nintendo 3DS
  • Jon says he could see Nintendo increasing the bus width from 64-bit to 128-bit, increasing the RAM amount from 4 GB to 8 GB, and slightly overclock the CPU and GPU on the Tegra X1, since it's cheaper than designing a brand new SoC from scratch (I have no idea if the Tegra X1 supports a 128-bit bus width; if the Tegra X1 doesn't support a 128-bit bus width, I don't think his argument stands)
  • Jon thinks Nintendo will continue to use a 720p display since he thinks Nintendo doesn't want to spend money on things where Nintendo doesn't have to
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo shouldn't go for a mini LED display for the next Nintendo Switch model, but rather Nintendo should go for the mini LED display for the successor; instead wait for Apple to incentivise more companies to manufacture more mini LED displays before Nintendo starts using mini LED displays
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo would price the next Nintendo Switch model at $349.99 and thinks the next Nintendo Switch model would eventually replace the revised Nintendo Switch model
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo might release a TV-only model for $149.99 at the end of the Nintendo Switch's life cycle
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo is going to use the same form factor and same heat sink for the next Nintendo Switch model since it needs to use the same dock and use the same Joy-Cons (I think Nintendo needs to redesign and reengineer the Joy-Cons to make the Joy-Cons less susceptible to drift)
  • Jon thinks it's going to be very difficult to change the look of the next Nintendo Switch model; he thinks that changing the logo and having new housing colours might help differentiate the next Nintendo Switch model with the Nintendo Switch (I think new housing colours are more helpful in terms of differentiating between the next Nintendo Switch model and the Nintendo Switch than changing the logo since I doubt people are going to notice the logo)
  • Jon predict Nintendo's going to release the next Nintendo Switch model on 14 May 2021; he also mentions that an autumn 2021 release is also possible
  • Jon thinks Nintendo's probably going to announce the next Nintendo Switch model in April, potentially giving consumers and retailers around 40 days to pre-order and to process pre-orders respectively
    • Jon mentions Nintendo doesn't tell retailers about any new hardware until after Nintendo announces new hardware
  • Jon thinks the next Nintendo Switch model simply needs to be better than the Nintendo Switch (I don't think that's enough of a reason for me to buy the next Nintendo Switch model)
  • Jon thinks third party developers might release a native version of games on the next Nintendo Switch model whilst releasing a cloud version of games on the Nintendo Switch
E990/ snapdragon S76x series and E1080/2100/S888 and the new S86x series will use 1 Samsung 7 / 6 / 5 EUV node which is the same node with different add-ons.
Where have you heard about the new Snapdragon 86x SoC? I've only heard of the Snapdragon 865 and the Snapdragon 865+.
 
Last edited:

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
Jon from Spawn Wave uploaded a YouTube video today talking about what he thinks the next Nintendo Switch model releasing in 2021 would be. I'm sure many people would disagree with Jon, but I thought it was worth discussing. (The bolded is my opinion.)

  • Jon thinks Nintendo would name the next Nintendo Switch model releasing in 2021 the "New Nintendo Switch" since he thinks it worked for the New Nintendo 3DS, but he wouldn't mind it being called the "Super Nintendo Switch" (I disagree with Jon about the "New" moniker working for the New Nintendo 3DS)
  • Jon thinks there are two things Nintendo doesn't want to do with the next Nintendo Switch model
    • Jon thinks Nintendo doesn't want to spend a lot of money on the next Nintendo Switch model since Nintendo would prefer to spend a lot of money on the successor as technology continues to improves throughout the years leading up to the successor
    • Jon thinks Nintendo doesn't want the performance jump between the Nintendo Switch and the next Nintendo Switch model to be too big since doing so would make the performance jump from the next Nintendo Switch model to the successor seem like less of a jump, which he argues is the case when going form the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X (I completely disagree with Jon about the performance jump between the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X seeming like less of a jump since the CPU on the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X is significantly better than the CPU on the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X)
  • Jon thinks Nintendo isn't too interested about third party developers developing games exclusive to the next Nintendo Switch model since it didn't work out for the New Nintendo 3DS (except for Minecraft since Minecraft sells no matter the hardware)
  • Jon thinks people who want the next Nintendo Switch model wants Nintendo Switch games to load faster and run better, which is the case for Nintendo 3DS games running on the New Nintendo 3DS
  • Jon says he could see Nintendo increasing the bus width from 64-bit to 128-bit, increasing the RAM amount from 4 GB to 8 GB, and slightly overclock the CPU and GPU on the Tegra X1, since it's cheaper than designing a brand new SoC from scratch (I have no idea if the Tegra X1 supports a 128-bit bus width; if the Tegra X1 doesn't support a 128-bit bus width, I don't think his argument stands)
  • Jon thinks Nintendo will continue to use a 720p display since he thinks Nintendo doesn't want to spend money on things where Nintendo doesn't have to
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo shouldn't go for a mini LED display for the next Nintendo Switch model, but rather Nintendo should go for the mini LED display for the successor; instead wait for Apple to incentivise more companies to manufacture more mini LED displays before Nintendo starts using mini LED displays
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo would price the next Nintendo Switch model at $349.99 and thinks the next Nintendo Switch model would eventually replace the revised Nintendo Switch model
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo might release a TV-only model for $149.99 at the end of the Nintendo Switch's life cycle
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo is going to use the same form factor and same heat sink for the next Nintendo Switch model since it needs to use the same dock and use the same Joy-Cons (I think Nintendo needs to redesign and reengineer the Joy-Cons to make the Joy-Cons less susceptible to drift)
  • Jon thinks it's going to be very difficult to change the look of the next Nintendo Switch model; he thinks that changing the logo and having new housing colours might help differentiate the next Nintendo Switch model with the Nintendo Switch (I think new housing colours are more helpful in terms of differentiating between the next Nintendo Switch model and the Nintendo Switch than changing the logo since I doubt people are going to notice the logo)
  • Jon predict Nintendo's going to release the next Nintendo Switch model on 14 May 2021; he also mentions that an autumn 2021 release is also possible
  • Jon thinks Nintendo's probably going to announce the next Nintendo Switch model in April, potentially giving consumers and retailers around 40 days to pre-order and to process pre-orders respectively
    • Jon mentions Nintendo doesn't tell retailers about any new hardware until after Nintendo announces new hardware
  • Jon thinks the next Nintendo Switch model simply needs to be better than the Nintendo Switch (I don't think that's enough of a reason for me to buy the next Nintendo Switch model)
  • Jon thinks third party developers might release a native version of games on the next Nintendo Switch model whilst releasing a cloud version of games on the Nintendo Switch

Where have you heard about the new Snapdragon 86x SoC? I've only heard of the Snapdragon 865 and the Snapdragon 865+.

I like Jon. He doesn't push conspiracy theories and has fairly sound predictions. BTW, I think he meant GPU jump from last gen pro models to current gen XSX and PS5.

To be fair, if we get A78s and ampere next year, the jump won't be so huge in power from 2021 to 2023-2024. A78s and ampere should be considered next gen (switch 2) though, since architecture is leagues above and TX1 likely can't go about 1 TFLOP for GPU.

If the TX2 can support 128 bit, I don't see why the TX1 can't.
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,056
Jon from Spawn Wave uploaded a YouTube video today talking about what he thinks the next Nintendo Switch model releasing in 2021 would be. I'm sure many people would disagree with Jon, but I thought it was worth discussing. (The bolded is my opinion.)

  • Jon thinks Nintendo would name the next Nintendo Switch model releasing in 2021 the "New Nintendo Switch" since he thinks it worked for the New Nintendo 3DS, but he wouldn't mind it being called the "Super Nintendo Switch" (I disagree with Jon about the "New" moniker working for the New Nintendo 3DS)
  • Jon thinks there are two things Nintendo doesn't want to do with the next Nintendo Switch model
    • Jon thinks Nintendo doesn't want to spend a lot of money on the next Nintendo Switch model since Nintendo would prefer to spend a lot of money on the successor as technology continues to improves throughout the years leading up to the successor
    • Jon thinks Nintendo doesn't want the performance jump between the Nintendo Switch and the next Nintendo Switch model to be too big since doing so would make the performance jump from the next Nintendo Switch model to the successor seem like less of a jump, which he argues is the case when going form the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X (I completely disagree with Jon about the performance jump between the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X to the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X seeming like less of a jump since the CPU on the PlayStation 5 and Xbox Series X is significantly better than the CPU on the PlayStation 4 Pro and the Xbox One X)
  • Jon thinks Nintendo isn't too interested about third party developers developing games exclusive to the next Nintendo Switch model since it didn't work out for the New Nintendo 3DS (except for Minecraft since Minecraft sells no matter the hardware)
  • Jon thinks people who want the next Nintendo Switch model wants Nintendo Switch games to load faster and run better, which is the case for Nintendo 3DS games running on the New Nintendo 3DS
  • Jon says he could see Nintendo increasing the bus width from 64-bit to 128-bit, increasing the RAM amount from 4 GB to 8 GB, and slightly overclock the CPU and GPU on the Tegra X1, since it's cheaper than designing a brand new SoC from scratch (I have no idea if the Tegra X1 supports a 128-bit bus width; if the Tegra X1 doesn't support a 128-bit bus width, I don't think his argument stands)
  • Jon thinks Nintendo will continue to use a 720p display since he thinks Nintendo doesn't want to spend money on things where Nintendo doesn't have to
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo shouldn't go for a mini LED display for the next Nintendo Switch model, but rather Nintendo should go for the mini LED display for the successor; instead wait for Apple to incentivise more companies to manufacture more mini LED displays before Nintendo starts using mini LED displays
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo would price the next Nintendo Switch model at $349.99 and thinks the next Nintendo Switch model would eventually replace the revised Nintendo Switch model
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo might release a TV-only model for $149.99 at the end of the Nintendo Switch's life cycle
  • Jon thinks that Nintendo is going to use the same form factor and same heat sink for the next Nintendo Switch model since it needs to use the same dock and use the same Joy-Cons (I think Nintendo needs to redesign and reengineer the Joy-Cons to make the Joy-Cons less susceptible to drift)
  • Jon thinks it's going to be very difficult to change the look of the next Nintendo Switch model; he thinks that changing the logo and having new housing colours might help differentiate the next Nintendo Switch model with the Nintendo Switch (I think new housing colours are more helpful in terms of differentiating between the next Nintendo Switch model and the Nintendo Switch than changing the logo since I doubt people are going to notice the logo)
  • Jon predict Nintendo's going to release the next Nintendo Switch model on 14 May 2021; he also mentions that an autumn 2021 release is also possible
  • Jon thinks Nintendo's probably going to announce the next Nintendo Switch model in April, potentially giving consumers and retailers around 40 days to pre-order and to process pre-orders respectively
    • Jon mentions Nintendo doesn't tell retailers about any new hardware until after Nintendo announces new hardware
  • Jon thinks the next Nintendo Switch model simply needs to be better than the Nintendo Switch (I don't think that's enough of a reason for me to buy the next Nintendo Switch model)
  • Jon thinks third party developers might release a native version of games on the next Nintendo Switch model whilst releasing a cloud version of games on the Nintendo Switch

Where have you heard about the new Snapdragon 86x SoC? I've only heard of the Snapdragon 865 and the Snapdragon 865+.

I like Jon as well. And I don't think anything he says here is controversial actually.

If Nintendo sticks to a die shrunk TX1, they can OC it as much as they can and get maybe 2x performance overall on the GPU side, maybe also 2x on CPU with 2x bandwidth and 2x the Memory, and call it a day. It will immediately smooth out a lot of performance issues while allowing devs to release patched up games running at a solid 30fps at 720/900 otr even 1080p or a dynamic 60fps. I'm thinking service games like fornite, warframe will all get 60fps /high resolution patches.

Sticking to TX1 also means they can bring the successor with the full suite of more modern GPU features, DLSS 2.0+ (or 3.0), and improvcements such that even if it's only a 4-5x improvement in flop performance over OG Switch (or 2.5 to 3x more powerfil than the Pro), its more modern architecture and GPU features would still be significantly more powerful than Pro could ever be.
 

Hermii

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,751
I like Jon as well. And I don't think anything he says here is controversial actually.

If Nintendo sticks to a die shrunk TX1, they can OC it as much as they can and get maybe 2x performance overall on the GPU side, maybe also 2x on CPU with 2x bandwidth and 2x the Memory, and call it a day. It will immediately smooth out a lot of performance issues while allowing devs to release patched up games running at a solid 30fps at 720/900 otr even 1080p or a dynamic 60fps. I'm thinking service games like fornite, warframe will all get 60fps /high resolution patches.

Sticking to TX1 also means they can bring the successor with the full suite of more modern GPU features, DLSS 2.0+ (or 3.0), and improvcements such that even if it's only a 4-5x improvement in flop performance over OG Switch (ot 2.5 to 3x more powerfil than the Pro), its more modern architecture and GPU features would still be significantly more powerful
Not to mention, if it's the same chip just faster then there is very little extra dev work required to take advantage of it. Which is welcome for devs who have enough skus to worry about as it is.
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
Sorry. I meant snapdragon 775 series using Samsung 6 nm node.

Spawn wave is making the error to think that TX1 could be overclocked to 2GHz / use 128 bit / use its 8 cores.
Got you. On an unrelated note, I'm surprised that Qualcomm didn't announce the rumoured Snapdragon 775 alongside the Snapdragon 888, considering Qualcomm announced the Snapdragon 765 alongside the Snapdragon 865 last year. And I hope that the rumoured Snapdragon 775 is at least competitive, performance wise, to the Exynos 1080, since I'd love to see mid-range smartphones next year performing very similarly to better than smartphones with the Snapdragon 865+ (going by how the Exynos 1080 compares to the Snapdragon 865+ on AnTuTu).

Jon never mentioned overclocking the Tegra X1's CPU to 2 GHz and using all 8 CPU cores on the Tegra X1 in the video. Jon only mentioned a slight overclock of the Tegra X1, which I guess means clock frequencies between 1.1 GHz to 1.7 GHz for the CPU, which is a very far cry from 2 GHz. (I believe some games run at 1.785 GHz for the loading screens of certain games, like Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, and Dragon Quest XI S, if I recall correctly.)
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
using a die shrunk, faster TX1 just tells me we'll see a Switch 2 in 2022. that said, Nintendo can get away with a light upgrade if they used a 4-core A78 and 384 ampere cores. would still get them over 2x performance. and for Switch 2, an 8-core A78 and 1280 ampere cores would still be a colossal jump. especially if they move to 5nm
 

Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
using a die shrunk, faster TX1 just tells me we'll see a Switch 2 in 2022. that said, Nintendo can get away with a light upgrade if they used a 4-core A78 and 384 ampere cores. would still get them over 2x performance. and for Switch 2, an 8-core A78 and 1280 ampere cores would still be a colossal jump. especially if they move to 5nm
And if the successor releases in 2022, there's a chance Nintendo might use UFS 4.0, with twice the data transfer speed of UFS 3.1 (4.8 GB/s vs 2.4 GB/s), instead of UFS 3.1 for the internal flash storage, since UFS 4.0 is planned to be announced in 2H 2022.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987

Deguello

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
269
Releasing a "Pro model" and then a successor in a year would be pretty bad juju. Prolly best just to release a straight up successor using whatever process is available in the early part of the year, on ampere/turing making sure DLSS is part of the equation.

Switch will top 80 Million units by fiscal year end. Around when the GBA topped 60 million they announced the DS, and the GBA was just cut down and replaced with the DS. They said "third pillar." They even made a new model of GBA the next year (Micro). But they just moved on to the next platform with only a few GBA games nearing the end of development and never looked back.

Wasting R&D money on making a "premium feel" instead of making the guts go harder would be the absolute worst application of R&D money ever. Form follows function. Get those specs up, get that mini-led in, before you worry about glass screens and metal bodies.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
this is probably the best showcase of why the Switch Pro/2 needs DLSS (5:40 if timestamp doesn't work). also, an 8-core Pro/2 will be a godsend for many games

 
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