Battle Passes are turning games into work instead of fun
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Yep Rockstar ,of all companies, actually got it right on their 1st go
35 Gold to buy it (Which most people would have from the 2x Gold event they had running for 3 weeks prior) and you get that 35 Gold back by the end of the Pass
only 1000XP per level which is really easy due to the new Frontier Pursuits jobs giving huge XP rewards / easy daily challenges
Nearly everything in the Pass is actually useful and stuff you'd actually want
Hopefully they can keep this up for the next Pass because Im all in at this point
This is what I don't get. The game is not taking you hostage. Play as much as you can/as much as you enjoy the game. With Rocket League and the Rocket Pass it is quite easy reaching all the items by just playing the game. If you are a competitive player, it is really just a side project so to speak. I am currently playing Breakpoint and there is a Battle Pass as well, but I am not nervous or anything when playing the game or afraid of missing stuff.
In general, yes, GaaS games are kind of a commitment, but even if you don't have 4 days a week to play x hours, you can still enjoy the game if the core gameplay loop is entertaining.
Edit: What does "FOMO" mean?
This is really hostile and a bit ridiculous at the same time.
For fortnite it's free to download and play as much as you want and if you are playing enough you only have have to spend like £8 once for a battlepass and can get it for free for every season afterwards by the v bucks you unlock.
If you don't want the BP or don't enjoy it then you can still play normally but if you want extra skins, wraps, gliders, pickaxes, music, loading screens etc it's a good way to get them. Better value than buying a skin outright too.
FOMO is real but eventually you just get desensitised to it, I know I have.
There are so many games to play these days, so many movies, tv shows, books, that I'm always going to miss out on something.
Once you accept that entertainment is endless and there will never be enough hours in your life to experience all of it, you start feeling such a wonderful sense of freedom. I don't have to buy your battle pass because who cares. I don't even need to buy your game day one for $60 if I don't want to. Give it to me a year later for $20 or less. There is so much else I can do with my time.
There are so many games to play these days, so many movies, tv shows, books, that I'm always going to miss out on something.
Once you accept that entertainment is endless and there will never be enough hours in your life to experience all of it, you start feeling such a wonderful sense of freedom. I don't have to buy your battle pass because who cares. I don't even need to buy your game day one for $60 if I don't want to. Give it to me a year later for $20 or less. There is so much else I can do with my time.
It's suppose to be hostile, because people are addicted to those passes and now we also get 5$ per month battle passes for Mario Kart. Everyone buying those passes is at fault. People get addicted by buying those passes. It's in no way different than lootboxes except that you really have to work for things you want. Do you even see your mistake? You are forced to play enough to get your moneys worth you have to buy yourself in again. It's not ridiculous. What is ridiculous are Epic Games, EA, Nintendo and other companies forcing people to play daily to get their money worth. For most of those players it's not about fun anymore which videogames are suppose to be about.
More or less ridiculous than defending the honor of a mouse trap?
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Absolutely, I would much rather all games were like the witcher 3 where you knew exactly what you were paying for but even full price games are trying everything to get you to spend more money in game. So this is why I dont think battle passes are the worst option at the moment. Games are often low cost to entry or free and rewards for battle pass are cosmetic.
While this quote is about ads its applicable to microtransations and battle pass content:
"The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads, That sucks."
Oh shit are battle passes the 'seasons' I purchased with D2 Shadowkeep Deluxe? Guess I should have paid a little more attention to the F2P reboot.
The Mass Effect devs stated - re: Andromeda multiplayer - that they were experimenting with how much to make the user sweat. Which, I translate as "how much effort you need to put into a game before you can enjoy it". Which is awful. And I see this becoming the definitive AAA experience. With the next wave of consoles around the corner, we will be looking at the top tier developers to showcase the hardware and I'm not sure how people are going to react to gaming gradually becoming a huge huge marketing pipeline.
I've only experienced this with Apex Legends, and I like it well enough because it forces me to engage with all the content and systems of the game, which I actually really enjoy. Sure helps when the moment-to-moment mechanics never stop feeling fun!
The way S2 had its challenges and progression system also meant I didn't have to play every single day. I would have weeks where I only touched the game on a weekend. Had a whole month where I didn't even play the game, and I still managed to get to Level 100 on the BP.
Like with S1 and S2, I earned enough currency to get S3's battle pass for free.
But yeah, if it's not fun for you, then there's no reason to get it. And I totally am sympathetic to the FOMO and wanting to get some of the cool cosmetics locked behind battle passes. In the ideal world, those items could all just be directly bought with in-game currency or money. As the current compromise with our microtransaction-ladened reality, I'm fine with battle passes.
The way S2 had its challenges and progression system also meant I didn't have to play every single day. I would have weeks where I only touched the game on a weekend. Had a whole month where I didn't even play the game, and I still managed to get to Level 100 on the BP.
Like with S1 and S2, I earned enough currency to get S3's battle pass for free.
But yeah, if it's not fun for you, then there's no reason to get it. And I totally am sympathetic to the FOMO and wanting to get some of the cool cosmetics locked behind battle passes. In the ideal world, those items could all just be directly bought with in-game currency or money. As the current compromise with our microtransaction-ladened reality, I'm fine with battle passes.
Fortnite is a free to play game that holds no game modes or abilities hostage to a pay wall. They are constantly updating it with new modes, weapons, items, map locations, events etc. And all of that is free.
The battlepass is simply there for additional items that are optional. I do appreciate the dangers or loot boxes, I'm a big fan of Jim Sterling so I know all about the issues raised.
We could argue about other games that do it worse or are more exploitative with random chance involved but for fortnite it's a good deal for those who are already playing and simply want to get additional items for a potentially one time small fee.
Again, I agree about the concerns of loot boxes etc. But your comment is too broad and is just insulting for the sake of it.
Mouse trap?
Yup. Monetisation in general has this affect. Fundamental gameplay is altered to point you towards storefronts. Don't believe me? Pick a monetised game and make a conscious effort to count how many times you see something advertised, be that cosmetic or otherwise, that you have the option to spend money on. Opening a Loot crate? You better believe there's an option on that screen to buy more. Home Screen, Look at all these deals we have! Here's your exp, if you bought battle pass you would have all of these items by now.
Doesn't matter if it's only cosmetic, I HATE that excuse. My Nephew got bullied for not having a skin in Fortnite, sure enough my sister caved and bought him the battle pass. Now he gets every new battle pass that comes out.
Doesn't matter if it's only cosmetic, I HATE that excuse. My Nephew got bullied for not having a skin in Fortnite, sure enough my sister caved and bought him the battle pass. Now he gets every new battle pass that comes out.
I really really want to be like this. Intellectually I know it's completely true and yet emotionally I still want the latest cosmetic, or a reward from a full battle pass.
They're designed to transform people into invested players. To suck them in and occupy their time and money.
I'm definitely skipping Destiny 2 because having a game that requires that much investment is just not worth it. It might be fun but I always feel like I'm wasting my time filling those bars and making the numbers grow bigger.
At the end I just feel like I'm wasting my time.
EDIT: Timed missions or goals are a plague as well. All those dailies and shit. I remember putting a bit more time into Destiny constantly just because I was close to finishing those missions and might as well do it. It's a waste of time.
At the end I just feel like I'm wasting my time.
EDIT: Timed missions or goals are a plague as well. All those dailies and shit. I remember putting a bit more time into Destiny constantly just because I was close to finishing those missions and might as well do it. It's a waste of time.
It sounds like the other subscription services. MMOs, I mean. People had to subscribe, and because it was a monthly payment, they imposed themselves the obligation of playing a ton to have the feeling they were really using what they had paid.
They don't want you to play the competitor. All they care is you 'engage' with their product as much as possible and pay as many mtx as you can afford, making it impossible to rotate with other games is a feature to them.
Honestly, I don't bother with Fortnite-like-GaaS but I really don't know how anyone could bother with two or more of those types of games concurrently, it really seems like a waste of time to me, even the OP agrees it's more like a chore than anything.
Honestly, I don't bother with Fortnite-like-GaaS but I really don't know how anyone could bother with two or more of those types of games concurrently, it really seems like a waste of time to me, even the OP agrees it's more like a chore than anything.
I mean most good games are in some way designed to get people invested to it - if you keep playing games you dont enjoy or dont wanna play thats more of a personal issue.
In combination with FOMO and exclusive/limited content i can see how troubling this can be for players nowadays.....but at the end its your own choice what to spend your time on.
a) you don't have to buy battle passes to play Apex Legends or Destiny 2.
b) you don't have the obligation to grind to gain levels. I don't think a dev will appear in your home and kill you if you don't.
c) you don't have to "max out" your battle pass.
It's curious the obligations people impose themselves. They say to themselves 'I have to buy everything' or 'I have to collect everything' or 'I have to max out my level' and they make the game unfun for themselves. The funnier bit is that I suspect the very same people are the ones who passes on games without no progression/reward mechanics, because what's the point of playing the game, then?
You can make the same kind of dismissal about loot boxes.
Battle Passes are designed to encourage habitual gaming and in some cases that will lead to addiction. It is personal, but these are games being played by tens of millions many of whom are children. The loot box is an aggressive push for the user's money. The battle pass is an aggressive push for the user's time because time spent in games correlates heavily with money spent.
The battle pass very heavily exploits the feeling of a sunken-cost. Once you spend money on a Battle Pass you feel like you have to plunge time into it because otherwise you get close to nothing. The more time you plunge into said battle pass, the more important it becomes that you actually complete it because you haven't got to the really good stuff yet. Obviously once the season nears its end there is then a massive incentive to spend money or gargantuan amounts of time to get the remaining tiers (which is extremely expensive).
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I think they're good, they give you more to do in lifestyle games and gives you periodical rewards as you play and go through all the levels. I've never understood why people feel the need to do them if they don't play the game enough in the first place, they're for the people that play just a few games as lifestyle games.
I'm still a fan of the battle pass idea moreso than the alternatives but I totally understand where everyone's coming from. If a game ever feels like a chore it's wise to drop it.
I wouldnt call it dismissive - its just the reality.
Companies will always try to reward players that invest more Resources (time and money) in their game - battle passes are just a current streamlined form of that goal.
I played Apex on/off for the last season and got to level 75 without actually trying... I don't really believe you haha, i didn't do any challenges at all. I think if I wanted to reach max level i could have easily.
But i do get what you mean, it should cater less to the grind. I had that shit with fortnite, but i really just didn't care for the rewards in apex.
But i do get what you mean, it should cater less to the grind. I had that shit with fortnite, but i really just didn't care for the rewards in apex.
I tend to just ignore them and just do my own thing, hate being forced to use a weapon type or visit a special location, sucks I might miss out on some cosmetics but oh well.
It's why I loved xur , would take me weeks but i could at least get a decent exotic.
It's why I loved xur , would take me weeks but i could at least get a decent exotic.
I feel that your last sentence is pretty disingenuous as one is part of the game itself and there are quantifiable improvements to the capabilities of a player be it new abilities, gear or stat boosts whereas the other costs money, provides mostly cosmetic items and has a time limit to boot.
I agree.
The other annoying thing is there might be something cool at level 20 but level 1-19 all the rewards suck and it just feels like a really long grind to get the item I actually want.
The other annoying thing is there might be something cool at level 20 but level 1-19 all the rewards suck and it just feels like a really long grind to get the item I actually want.
I bought a season and was offered a season in Fortnite and it was nice getting some skins and some v bucks, but the grind was too much and I began to get sick of sinking hours and hours into one game.
I now just log on maybe once a week for a couple rounds of rumble and I'm much happier.
I now just log on maybe once a week for a couple rounds of rumble and I'm much happier.
OP
OP
The problem is when a game is very fun to play, but also imposes weekly chores. I want to play the fun game but I also need to level the battle pass so I won't be seen as an unworthy noob in the game.
I don't see the issue. Destiny already had pinnacle weapons you had to grind tons of if you wanted them. This seems like more casual and additional way to acquire loot. I never got pinnacle weapons and won't max battle pass either.
I don't see myself missing out on anything.
I don't see myself missing out on anything.
All games have been designed to "hook" people in since people started designing games.
Connectivity has just made it easier. I don't think BP make games "addictive" the combination of a BP and a game people enjoy might though. But the issue then is whether that is inherently bad? It completely depends on the context. People used to be addicted to Halo - no BP there. And loads of articles about how bad it was that people were addicted to shooting aliens.
Yeah, I've gotten pretty tired of the "games as a service" thing already. If I want to play more of a game, I'll play it because it's fun, not because it's wanting me to repeat X activity 10 times within 7 hours to unlock something.
I hear ya on that. I've played so many games (mostly mobile) that were giving me daily chores I just had to quit them. I still enjoyed playing them but felt pretty much required to spend time every day, no matter what , to get the dailies done. There came a point that my dislike for these daily chores out weighed my enjoyment of the game so I dropped them cold turkey. However I completely understand the compulsion to get every reward possible in your current game of choice. The developers know we act this way and that's what these grindy, time consuming, dailies, exp bars and battle passes are for. To keep us engaged and hooked because if we're playing the game already they know we're going to want every last possible reward. It takes a lot to change ones mind set since we're so conditioned. More power to those that can completely ignore it.
Now excuse me while I go back to Mario Kart Tour to make sure I max out on coins and exp for the day. Fml
Pretty much why I stopped playing Fortnite. It became more about grinding the daily and weekly challenges, instead of actually playing the game for fun.
The thing is... if the Daily/Weekly challenges were actually achievable by playing the game normally, it wouldn't be so bad, but they are often not and they ask you to do the most annoying things in the game, like shooting dummy targets, solving puzzles, finding hidden objects and other things, which interrupt the actual gameplay. Every time a new set of challenges dropped, you'd see half the map swarming to specific locations, because that's where challenges would take place. I feel like this is so counterproductive and just hurts the game.
The thing is... if the Daily/Weekly challenges were actually achievable by playing the game normally, it wouldn't be so bad, but they are often not and they ask you to do the most annoying things in the game, like shooting dummy targets, solving puzzles, finding hidden objects and other things, which interrupt the actual gameplay. Every time a new set of challenges dropped, you'd see half the map swarming to specific locations, because that's where challenges would take place. I feel like this is so counterproductive and just hurts the game.
I guess dropping support after a game ships is better. Right?
They keep me hooked but ultimately push me away in the end. If I miss out on a pass or don't complete one the spell is gone and I pretty much drop a game forever. Probably says a lot about whether I'm actually enjoying a game or not. I keep playing rocket league without a battle pass but once I dropped fortnites pass I took a hard exit. Red dead onlines seems the most fair so far but I expect that to change with the next one
I don't often play online games, much less GaaS games - a lot of the time for things like this. I don't have the time to deal with a game that's more work than fun, so it doesn't interest me.
I will say though, as some have mentioned - the Outlaw Pass in Red Dead Online has been great. I got sucked back in to playing that recently upon several recommendations and I have to say the pass is great. It's easy to progress and gives meaningful rewards and your initial contribution is paid back by the end of the pass.
It's funny to see Rockstar being the ones doing it right in this area for a change. It was actually a lot of fun getting through all of the rewards instead of an anxiety inducing work-like checklist. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they make future passes more difficult in light of how relatively easy this one was.
I will say though, as some have mentioned - the Outlaw Pass in Red Dead Online has been great. I got sucked back in to playing that recently upon several recommendations and I have to say the pass is great. It's easy to progress and gives meaningful rewards and your initial contribution is paid back by the end of the pass.
It's funny to see Rockstar being the ones doing it right in this area for a change. It was actually a lot of fun getting through all of the rewards instead of an anxiety inducing work-like checklist. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they make future passes more difficult in light of how relatively easy this one was.
No, but designing the game as a one and done from the ground up like the old days is better.