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Deimos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,782
Input based MM probably isn't possible since BF games have historically supported simultaneous MKB and controller use.

Considering input based crossplay... Is there any software (on PC of course) that lets you "mask" mouse and keybord as a controller? Because that could be a problem.



I'd love to see three levels of crossplay:



1) my console only

2) PS5 + Xbox peeps

3) everybody (that one I don't care about, but to my understanding there are people who want it, so let them have it)



If DICE decides to combine 2 and 3, then I'll stick to 1. I'm not a masochist to play against guys using K+M. I don't like my self-esteem being crushed every match.
There is, but translating mouse to joystick doesn't result in perfect mapping. It's better than native joystick but still inferior to native mouse
 
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Theorry

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,103
Considering input based crossplay... Is there any software (on PC of course) that lets you "mask" mouse and keybord as a controller? Because that could be a problem.

I'd love to see three levels of crossplay:

1) my console only
2) PS5 + Xbox peeps
3) everybody (that one I don't care about, but to my understanding there are people who want it, so let them have it)

If DICE decides to combine 2 and 3, then I'll stick to 1. I'm not a masochist to play against guys using K+M. I don't like my self-esteem being crushed every match.
Its gonna be difficult for BF as it supports both. Lot of PC player for example switch to a controller for plane flying.
 

IceMangooo

Member
Jul 13, 2021
1
I wouldn't be quick to judge other games that have already shipped. It could literally be "impossible" with their current infrastructure.

These features would not be possible with BFV, for example. I mean, sure, we put humans on the moon so obviously renengineering a game's infrastructure is possible, but if you have to invest similar amount of resources as you would for a new game, you may as well make the new game. :D There is a limit to everything.

With crossplay coming to bf2042 and AI soldiers that can't be disabled, I have to ask: is still server browser still going to be a thing? :D
 

Observable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
946
Awesome, this should really be the standard from now on, especially with PC and Console gamers being able to opt out from each other. I'm so glad the industry is going into this direction since Rocket League and Fortnite forced Sony to slowly change toward allowing it.

The cross progression is great as well.
 

BloodHound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,040
Being able to completely disable crossplay is a first party requirement for certification. The question then becomes, do you provide a 3rd option, effectively splitting the player base on each platform into 3 potential buckets just based on their crossplay settings. As with everything else in game development, each choice and option you provide has to be weighted against the wishes of the player base, the needs of the business, and ultimately, the health of the game.

Keep sharing your feedback and thoughts, though, keep us honest.
I'm sure your team has discussed this, but was it a technical or business reason for not utilizing Respawns cross play implementation?
 
Nov 28, 2017
1,362
Being able to completely disable crossplay is a first party requirement for certification. The question then becomes, do you provide a 3rd option, effectively splitting the player base on each platform into 3 potential buckets just based on their crossplay settings. As with everything else in game development, each choice and option you provide has to be weighted against the wishes of the player base, the needs of the business, and ultimately, the health of the game.

Keep sharing your feedback and thoughts, though, keep us honest.


I hope you're not getting hammered with messages from passionate fans, whom sometimes might cross the limit. That is not the intention of any console player or going to get them anywhere.

But, as you said, "the wishes of the playerbase" of each console, console fans who's primary platform is console, and not a PC player who got a console because the player population of a game was low on their platform so they can jump on console to enjoy a game with a high playerbase, are that you implement something you ALREADY implemented, and have implemented INCREDIBLY WELL, in Apex Legends, i.e. ONLY BETWEEN CONSOLES and pc will not be able to participate in console matchmaking, at all, just like the last generation console version of BF2042 that you have in the pipeline.

The solution is to not fix something that isn't broken. No console player is complaining about the crossplay system in place in Apex Legends (or other 3RD party titles with similar kind of crossplay implementation like Rainbow Six Siege, Overwatch, MK11 etc,) and in fact, some console and pc players are unified in asking for a complete console-only crossplay solution for it, compared to the current implementation which allows a console player to participate in pc lobbies and their matchmaking pool.

Please consider and implement the requests of hardware owners who paid for their hardware, when deciding who you're forcing those hardware owners to crossplay with. It's the owners of the hardware who should decide who they WANT to, and which platforms they want to crossplay with. It's THE ONLY fair, rightful way. The unanimous console population wants console crossplay between the PlayStation 5 and the Xbox Series X|S, by default (unlike your current implementation by forcing PC in to the console matchmaking pool to artificially improve PC engagement), and most of them want ONLY console crossplay. Hope it's implemented before launch to avoid any confusion or bad PR.

The game is looking out to be great and a return to the roots of Battlefield (cringy, I know, sorry), and congrats to your team for all the work you've did, especially during these hard times with a global pandemic. Here's wishing you and your team, all the very best for a successful launch ahead.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,037
Being able to completely disable crossplay is a first party requirement for certification. The question then becomes, do you provide a 3rd option, effectively splitting the player base on each platform into 3 potential buckets just based on their crossplay settings. As with everything else in game development, each choice and option you provide has to be weighted against the wishes of the player base, the needs of the business, and ultimately, the health of the game.

Keep sharing your feedback and thoughts, though, keep us honest.

Is there no way to create a way to allow next gen player to at least opt in or join their friends on last gen games/servers? Can understand they can't play the next gen versions, but with most of my friends on last gen, I wish I could have the option to join them at least and play in smaller matches
 

Z6E1Z9O

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 28, 2017
451
Not implementing an input based matchmaking method would be stupid, im a pc player that always plays with a controller and even i still get stomped by ps/xbox players, however i have way better chances with those than with my fellow pc players that use mouse+kb
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Being able to completely disable crossplay is a first party requirement for certification. The question then becomes, do you provide a 3rd option, effectively splitting the player base on each platform into 3 potential buckets just based on their crossplay settings. As with everything else in game development, each choice and option you provide has to be weighted against the wishes of the player base, the needs of the business, and ultimately, the health of the game.

Keep sharing your feedback and thoughts, though, keep us honest.

Could this work?

Playstation 5 buckets

1. Crossplay off. Only other PS5 users who have PS5. (I get that it is a requirement to have off)

2. Crossplay on. Only Playstation and Xbox users. If a playstation user invites a PC user to the party, then they will all be put into the PC bucket.


Xbox Buckets
Same thing


PC Bucket


1. They play other PC users and console players that were in a party with a PC user.

PC bucket gets the full PC playerbase, negating the probably lower player population versus console. While console players have 2 buckets that splits the userbase, but will most likely have higher player counts, also making the 2 buckets work.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,471
Houston, TX
Where is that Flick Stick support to put controller above M&K and finally solve all our problems
As someone who used the controls keep quite often, I'm not sure if it beats mouse & keyboard. That said, gyro & flick stick does come close enough to where controllers can hold their own against mouse & keyboard players. But so far, only Boomerang X natively supports flick stick (with more games apparently being on the way).
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
A lot of regions don't have enough current gen consoles to make 128 player viable. So it becomes a choice between playing against bots or PC for them.

Even the regions where the console sold well might have a problem, because there are only about 20 million of those things in gamers' hands and they're obviously not all buying the current gen version of Battlefield 2042. Some aren't interested and some might even choose to play the last gen version with their friends. So if DICE added the consoles only option, there would end up being four player pools on the same hardware: same platform only, current gen consoles only, last gen, and one for current gen consoles + PC. For a game that might only move 2 or 3 million current gen console SKUs at launch.

So I can see where DICE is coming from with their current approach. But of course the differing input options have to be balanced and competitive for a free for all to work.
 
OP
OP
Theorry

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,103
A lot of regions don't have enough current gen consoles to make 128 player viable. So it becomes a choice between playing against bots or PC for them.

Even the regions where the console sold well might have a problem, because there are only about 20 million of those things in gamers' hands and they're obviously not all buying the current gen version of Battlefield 2042. Some aren't interested and some might even choose to play the last gen version with their friends. So if DICE added the consoles only option, there would end up being four player pools on the same hardware: same platform only, current gen consoles only, last gen, and one for current gen consoles + PC. For a game that might only move 2 or 3 million current gen console SKUs at launch.

So I can see where DICE is coming from with their current approach. But of course the differing input options have to be balanced and competitive for a free for all to work.
Worked fine with BF4 and next gen consoles. And that game released even on launch day of new consoles and not a year later and one of them was even Xbox One.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
Worked fine with BF4 and next gen consoles. And that game released even on launch day of new consoles and not a year later and one of them was even Xbox One.
Nothing about BF4 worked fine at launch.

And there weren't any 128 player matches back then, which is 2042's standout feature for current gen. If I was paying $70 for 2042 I would want the full experience.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
13,987
I just hope the SBMM isn't brutal. It's really hard to want to jump into CoD when you have to play against 6 high skilled players everytime. Don't get me wrong, SBMM should definitely exist, but it should not be as strict and merciless as CoD.
SBMM will not be a thing in the sense that COD has it. Whether you join a server through the server browser or through mm, the game will balance you onto the team where you skill level makes sense. In BF4/1, I believe the stats for balancing were kills, k/d, and spm from the previous game which was ok but needed further tracking. If they used those same stats from overall and recent games the balancing could be great in 2042.
 
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OP
Theorry

Theorry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
61,103
Nothing about BF4 worked fine at launch.

And there weren't any 128 player matches back then, which is 2042's standout feature for current gen. If I was paying $70 for 2042 I would want the full experience.

That has nothing the do with it. We were talking player numbers. And BF4 released on next gen consoles day on of release of the consoles and not a year later.
One of them was even Xbox One and but Xbox and PS4 didnt struggle with player numbers from day one. BF2042 will be fine even with 128 players wich is compared to BF4 just two servers into one.
 

petethepanda

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,185
chicago
Such great news. A long way from the Battlefield Premium days on PC, where the playerbase would be split to hell just a few months in thanks to paid maps, let alone the lack of crossplay.

I know COD's SBMM gets a lot of flak, but as a middle-of-the-road player, it's done a fantastic job of keeping different input methods fair. I don't feel like I'm dominating with m/kb, and I don't feel like I'm hopelessly outmatched by mouse players when on console/controller.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,039
Worked fine with BF4 and next gen consoles. And that game released even on launch day of new consoles and not a year later and one of them was even Xbox One.

Exactly what I was going to say.

Had 64 players per match at launch and a ton of full servers.

But now on these next gen systems, there aren't enough players for 128 when combining xbox and ps5?

Nahhhhhhh
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,630
Being able to completely disable crossplay is a first party requirement for certification. The question then becomes, do you provide a 3rd option, effectively splitting the player base on each platform into 3 potential buckets just based on their crossplay settings. As with everything else in game development, each choice and option you provide has to be weighted against the wishes of the player base, the needs of the business, and ultimately, the health of the game.

Keep sharing your feedback and thoughts, though, keep us honest.
PS5/Series or Console only cross play is big one since the addition of PC is really killing Warzone since activision isn't taking cheating seriously.