Biden: "Contrary to allegations against Israel...what's happening is not genocide."
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Y'all really surprised Zionist Joe is still Zionist Joe? He is who he is. It ain't an act. It ain't a political move. This is what he truly believes in his bones. He's a Zionist through and through and will happily see Palestine exterminated to give the Israelis their destined land.
Just gotta make it to the election, after that his brain can become applesauce for all I care. Is this long enough to be a worthy reply?
The problem is why are people making this argument now? Why have people been making this argument for months? The initial attacks happened October 7 so there will have been at least 13 months of a response under Biden before elections. All it's done is given him the go ahead to keep sending Israel weapons as they escalate and starve the population. I get how things would be worse under Trump in general. I'm queer and am used to my rights being used as a pawn to get people to fall in line. But things are happening now and have been happening for over half a year already. It's a trolley problem because no one would listen when engineers were screaming to pull the brakes months ago, but no one would out from fear of what would happen if someone else had the controls an entire year later.
You are changing the words that I said. Did I say that Trump would be the same on Ukraine or LGBTQ rights? I said WITH Israel. It is not an undisputed fact that Trump would have handled Israel worse. Biden has one of the worst track records in history.
To imply Trump would have been worse IS cope and denying reality. We're in possibly the worst possible scenario for the Palestinians.
We can protest, sure. But only on the condition that the President misrepresents us, paints as no different than Nazis and sits idly back as the police beat us senseless. Sure, all of our future job prospects are shot, but we were allowed to stand out there.
Can we please drop the charade that those in power give a single fuck about the opinions of their constituents? It's absolutely unreal to me that anyone can still have any faith in electoralism at this point.
Being forced to vote for the guy running on a platform of "I'm not actually going to do anything but at least I won't do awful shit like the other guy" was a bad joke last time around but now it's just absurd. It's pushing the gun to the head threat of trump to the absolute limit, I was pessimistic before but still never imagined being forced to choose someone that's actively funding and publicly denying genocide. I find it very difficult to believe the Biden administration actually even cares about votes at this point and, if so, why should any of us care? It's more clear than ever that the ruling class has nothing but disdain and contempt for us and will not hesitate to sic their police state on anyone that steps out of line
Being forced to vote for the guy running on a platform of "I'm not actually going to do anything but at least I won't do awful shit like the other guy" was a bad joke last time around but now it's just absurd. It's pushing the gun to the head threat of trump to the absolute limit, I was pessimistic before but still never imagined being forced to choose someone that's actively funding and publicly denying genocide. I find it very difficult to believe the Biden administration actually even cares about votes at this point and, if so, why should any of us care? It's more clear than ever that the ruling class has nothing but disdain and contempt for us and will not hesitate to sic their police state on anyone that steps out of line
That I didn't know.
If they don't believe in data then they don't have a framework to even make the correct decisions.
We're going to have post mortems of this whole thing that point to this exact issue being why he lost with a million data points showing all the ramifications.
I mean in this case I can't really blame brainworm candidate for that reaction.
He literally lost his father to that conflict, it's like the position that makes the most sense out of all the candidates.
I'm not saying he's right or rational to think this but it's the kind of vendetta that is actually super common.
Trump is on record saying that he would deport protestors, he could have himself bombed Gaza and sent troops to the ground to further the genocide.
Saying the situation is the worst case scenario shows a lack of imagination.
Dude, it's definitely genocide. If you want to say it's necessary for blah blah blah whatever shitty excuse you want, that's at least a lame argument most people could consider and see some thought in.
But it's definitely genocide, and this is giving "we don't diddle kids, put a line in there about how you shouldn't diddle kids."
But it's definitely genocide, and this is giving "we don't diddle kids, put a line in there about how you shouldn't diddle kids."
We're in the worst possible scenario for the Palestinians yes. But for Ukraine? for 2SLGBTQIA+? For Women? For any other group that would be so much more worse off with Trump in power?
You can tell me that you don't care for any of them by not voting, that's fine. In a just world, you'd have options beyond "Supports Genocide" and "Supports Genocides" but sadly, we're not there, and ultimately the lesser of two evils is still the lesser evil.
Don't dismiss your blessings, at least you can protest, it's not a given.
There's places where that right was taken away AND the US will be part of that group if Trump wins.
You're also speaking Trumps words in a world where Biden's actions already exist. Biden did everything they would have done, so what do you think Trumps reaction is gonna be? The only way to differentiate himself from the actions a fascist would take is to strong man it even more.
This is just nonsense words from him. Trump would have "deported protestors". Where would he even send me? He's just saying words to rile up his base. He can't exactly come out and praise Biden, can he?
Have we considered the possibility that it isn't the official position that following international law is essential?
I think you're downplaying the far more inflammatory rhetoric and full throated support Trump would be giving in this situation
Basically my take as well.
I take no pleasure at all in voting for Biden, but I will do it so that I can try to make sure that Trump doesn't get a chance to get revenge on the rest of the world. I also have 3 sisters and 2 nieces. I would like to see their rights stay as intact as possible going forward.
Biden is bad for Israel. Trump is bad for Israel and the rest of the world as well.
So we really just going full accelerationism all the way now? Okay have fun in the Trump reich hellscape then. I can't believe some people actually think like this...
I mean we're talking about a guy that day1 tried to ban Muslims from entering the US, if you think he wouldn't have tried to pull some other shit like that on top of all the BS Biden did you're not thinking hard enough about the level depravity he usually stoops to.
Think about the worst thing someone can do in a situation and he'll usually surprise you by finding worse.
I'm not sure how to interpret this post in response to mine. But I do agree that its not over until it's over. I don't think everything gets fixed if Biden has another 4 years. I think some things get much better, though! I also think some things will get worse. There's a million things to be done to improve the world. Most will have to be done outside of a single vote every four years. For the question of what choice I make in November? I think there's only one option.
Only if Trump wins? Did you not see the bipartisan support for the antisemitism bill that would effectively criminalize all anti Israel protests?
Saying to the world that one group of people are acceptable sacrifices for the gains of another is doing nothing to protect queer people or any other marginalized group. In another world people are defending an anti gay liberal candidate, because the republicans "are worse"
I'm a queer man in Florida who has been left for the wolves. Everyone tells me that my states oppression over queer people isn't even in Biden's wheelhouse. I'm not buying the idea that voting for Biden is something to protect us. We're already unprotected. Weakest man we could put up to try and fight against fascists. He already conceded on the border, what's next?
I'll confess i'm not omniscient so I missed that.
The good point is that it didn't pass, right?
Otherwise, yay the US gets to follow our footsteps in BS antisemitism bill that actually support antisemitism!
Granted a Trump admin would just ban any form of protesting though.
The Democrats need to find a new candidate for the next election, or they are super fucked.
People aren't going to vote for this guy.
People aren't going to vote for this guy.
I said what I said because some people were literally saying they were gonna skip election day. I don't understand what you mean by the second part. I don't view down ballot voting as a "game"
What does it say about America then, that the two men that would lead it are Trump and Biden.
What a truly demoralizing state of affairs.
What a truly demoralizing state of affairs.
Really don't want Trump to win like the next member here but geez. Also why is there a word count limit for a post in this thread?
I can't with this shit man. I hate this country constantly bending over backwards to excuse Israel's genocide when so many other countries have come out to condemn them.
We aren't fucking blind or stupid. You cannot bury or erase this from history.
We aren't fucking blind or stupid. You cannot bury or erase this from history.
It did pass the house though. It's just waiting on moving onto the senate. That's not a very good point.
If protesting against genocide is illegal, all protesting may as well be illegal.
Fuck this geriatric shill and all his apologists. When this paper-thin candidate shits the bed in November all the pragmatic democrats can cry in their chicken tenders.
Get bent, Biden.
Get bent, Biden.
It's AIPAC. They have a lot of influence in the U.S. gov't. Jimmy Carter spoke about AIPAC in a very notable interview a long time ago on Democracy Now. You can see portions of the interview on Twitter or YT. He also talks about how Israel is an apartheid state. Carter was way ahead of the curve on all of this.
This reminds me, when I was in Egypt this lovely old guy said to you get the leaders you deserve. In the context of the conversation it fitted and his broader point was, I think, these people are a product of the same society.
Obviously that doesn't completely stand up to close scrutiny as a simple saying but it made me think as a youngster.
I mean, if they won't vote for Biden I'm not sure they'll vote for Mayor Pete or the cipher that is Kamala. I guess they could try Hilary again.
No one is saying any of this is acceptable. It's just the unfortunate shit reality we find ourselves in. Regardless of where you are in the US and what your stance is our options are either Biden or Trump. That's it. Who is worse for literally everyone? That would be Trump. It sucks so fucking bad that we find ourselves here in that situation, but that is the reality of the situation.
A vote for Biden is a vote that is trying to stave off complete and utter ruin across the entire political board. Not just a single issue.
The only consolation to me is that I see all of the voices speaking up against it and calling it out for what it is. There has to be hope for the future.
Unfortunate is putting it mildly.
You think that's demoralizing,
the truth of the matter is that the good thing about this time is that both parties aren't hiding who they truly are for once.
The difference is enforcement, then it becomes a game of semantics with the GoP talking about Jan 6 as a pacific walk akin to MLK Jr going to Washington.
I mean the old guy is right, in a democracy at least you get the most popular people and that's about it.
It always was a popularity contest.
That's at least a hope for the future.
then again despite all the progress made, this century the US still was perfectly ok with torture and we have a lot of footage of public officials justifying its use.
You are saying "single issue" in regards to a genocide and all of the mechanations that go into upholding and supporting that genocide. The "single issue" I have is children being blown to pieces.
Hillary would be the most surefire way to lose. There's no way anyone would seriously consider her again. She's political poison. They'd have better odds getting someone new.
As someone who's made this plea before in earlier elections, it's not snarky (at worst, maybe a bit of nagging?). Presidential candidates are like headliners in a concert — they're the big choice and what tends to generate the most enthusiasm (or disgust) to vote.
A lot of people may know there are down ballot races, but may not actively go out to vote for them for any number of reasons (safe seat, annoying electoral procedures, etc). And those down ballot ones are the ones where people have more impact — and may be the only things that stop things from getting worse (reducing funding to Israel's destruction, putting roadblocks in place, rejecting some unqualified nut job nominee, local propositions, etc)
In theory, it isn't. In reality, it depends. If you're in a swing state and Trump wins, it's effectively a vote for the winner. Not voting is a choice and has consequences, and it just depends where you live to some degree whether or not how much of an impact it has.
And I get it…I'm voting for genocide Joe because that's the least worst option, versus super genocide Donald, which will be worse in pretty much every other aspect of domestic and foreign policy. I didn't vote for Biden in any primary, because I'd like to see more progressive candidates everywhere, but fuck if I'm going to relive 2000/2004 again. We're here in good part because of what happened then.
I know it's exactly zero consolation to what's going on, but this is the most push back we've ever had to Israel, which has been violating international law for decades via illegal settlements, regularly engages in foreign extrajudicial killings that are regularly celebrate for some weird reason, and which we subsidize as if it were the 51st state instead of an overseas ally, while we throw Puerto Rico to the wolves.
US policy has long been fucked up towards Israel, and especially to Palestinians, and I'm grateful to everyone leading the charge and calling their reps to try to force a change.
You guys do you, but my general advice is to to vote in every election, and especially in primaries, voting for the least worst candidate always sucks and never feels good, and keep calling your reps (www.5calls.org) because if you're their voter, they will tend to listen and those levers are easier to pull and influence than the presidential one.
"Single issue" is such a dehumanizing fucking phrase when speaking about a genocide.
It makes me sick and really shows you how people view these things
Versus just protests that democrats don't like, hmm.
It passed with a majority in the house & still has to go through the Senate yet.
It honestly doesn't matter how much Era vote-shames others, this has been a wake up call for the generation younger than us (one of many) and it's hard to put the hypocrisy on display by our elected officials back in the metaphorical bottle.
Is Biden a hardcore zionists or a paid Zionist supporter? I can't see him being happy him losing the youth vote every time Israel commits genocide and he has to keep allying with them while losing his voters.
Why not both? I cannot fault anyone having MASSIVE misgivings about voting for Biden given his stance on the Palestinian crisis but we're likely to have only 2 viable candidates for president on the ballot in November, so the practical impact of not voting for one is that it very inherently helps the other, regardless of one's personal intent or motivation. You can't simply divorce your choice from that outcome, esp. when your criteria is the harm/loss of innocent life - Trump will do/enable far worse, foreign and domestic.
Joe would probably rather lose the election while supporting Israel unconditionally than win the election while dialing it down to like 95%.
I honestly can't blame people for holding out on their votes because of this.
I mean we had decades of "single issue" voters where the "single issue" was women should die more.
I mean we had the whole war in Irak and marching enthusiastically to the slaughter of hundred of thousands not even that long ago.
The hypocrisy was always there.
You heard em, kids. Get onto the pile of corpses, you're the acceptable sacrifice to achieve a better tomorrow (well not really, just a less bad tomorrow).
Wouldn't want the inconvenience of this "single issue" of tens of thousands of dead and dying Palestinians to muddy the good vibes.
Both. He's been hardcore zionist for a long long time, but also recieves a ton of money from them.
At this point I don't even know if he cares he's losing voters. I don't know what he is thinking other than keeping israel in power as long as possible.
How should people refer to a salient topic that drives peoples votes when talking about electoral politics? "Single issue" is extremely common parlance for those things.
In that they proved effective in some sense.
Yeah that is likely true, but the Dems wouldn't go down that line if it came to it.
What a fucking piece of shit.
As for the people saying "Trump would be worst". Yes, it's true. That's a fucking lameass excuse though. People are right to demand better instead of "the lesser evil" especially when the so called lesser evil is litterally complicit and an avid supporter in a genocide.
Although I doubt this would be debate if this happened outside of Middle East.
As for the people saying "Trump would be worst". Yes, it's true. That's a fucking lameass excuse though. People are right to demand better instead of "the lesser evil" especially when the so called lesser evil is litterally complicit and an avid supporter in a genocide.
Although I doubt this would be debate if this happened outside of Middle East.
Like I keep seeing the argument that things will get worse if we skip on voting but we're already getting the police called on us, we're assaulted on video while they cheer against us, we're getting words and phrases that show support for the victims banned, all while our tax dollars are being used to fund a genocide, every time I hear dialogue about " vote for Biden or it'll get worse for us too " it comes off as if they're asking me to sacrifice the Palestinians, I don't know what I'm going to do on election day, if I'm going to vote for Biden or not but I ain't going to blame anyone that skips because it really shouldn't be this way :( I really don't want the Democrat party to get the message that this is acceptable
If that's the case then not voting at all for President inherently helps both making it a wash.
In reality it isn't. But using your logic, if Biden wins a swing state where I didn't vote, then I voted for Biden. In which case, I should get credit for Biden winning, yes? Except that's never how it goes.
Calling my GOP reps won't do anything, sadly.
I don't get the argument of how Trump wouldn't be worse and far more destructive to Palestinians
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