Biden Told Latino Lawmakers to Anticipate Executive Action on Extending DACA and TPS, Looking at Options to Forgive Most, if Not All, Student Debt

The Albatross · Apr 26, 2022

bonesawisready5 said:
Honestly even tho you're right, I think if Biden did an EO order to forgive it that no lawmakers or courts would challenge it willingly. That's a poison pill to take away tens of thousands in relief. It would only be fed loans tho. Biden can and has forgiven other student loans this term, why would this be different?

I used to think this way until the child tax credit, which was super popular, died with barely a whimper and barely any notice. A lot of people didn't even know about it, didn't know they were getting it, didn't know 100% of Republicans voted to kill it. A year ago I would have thought that taking $300 or $600/mo away from middle class Americans would have made a dent politically. 2 years ago I would have thought that a Democratic plan to give working families $300 or $600/mo in expanded benefits, slashing hunger and giving families a little more wiggle room, would have paid political dividends.

Seemingly, it didn't and it hasn't. We live in bizarro world where a plurality of Americans think that unemployment is higher now than it was 2 years ago.

Piggus · Apr 26, 2022

Meh. They've dangled the loan forgiveness carrot and kicked the forbearance can down the road to the point where it's hard to feel hopeful they'll actually do it. Would love to be surprised and actually be able to MAYBE buy a house someday. I don't even have that much in student loans relatively speaking but it was still enough to completely shut down an opportunity to buy an amazing townhouse under an affordable housing program several years ago. The student loans wiped out almost all of my buying power and even switching to IBR didn't help much. Now that opportunity is gone. Home buying with student loans feels hopeless.

Ouroboros · Apr 26, 2022

My wife can finally quit her current job she hates so much that she only is staying because it qualifies for her loan forgiveness. She can finally do something she enjoys, that would be amazing.

Deleted member 55524 · Apr 26, 2022

Lord Fanny said:
Oh yeah, of course lol. Biden wants to do all this stuff that everyone wants, but man, those legal challenges!

Okay. Can you please explain why the legal challenges aren't a problem?

Lord Fanny · Apr 26, 2022

GhostBed said:
Okay. Can you please explain why the legal challenges aren't a problem?

Explain how legal challenges to something that can't be done due to legal challenges to something that doesn't exist because of legal challenges that doesn't exist? Sounds kind of like a Catch-22!

Falchion · Apr 26, 2022

Really hope he cancels all that debt.

Crossing Eden · Apr 26, 2022

DarkSora said:
Off topic but this clip always makes me LOL.

Blows my mind how many people were scared by this clip as a KID.

Don't @ me.

GDGF · Apr 26, 2022

Jojolies.gif

crimsonECHIDNA · Apr 26, 2022

I hate that he's effectively treated student loan forgiveness as an "In case of emergency, break glass."

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · Apr 26, 2022

The Albatross said:
I used to think this way until the child tax credit, which was super popular, died with barely a whimper and barely any notice. A lot of people didn't even know about it, didn't know they were getting it, didn't know 100% of Republicans voted to kill it. A year ago I would have thought that taking $300 or $600/mo away from middle class Americans would have made a dent politically. 2 years ago I would have thought that a Democratic plan to give working families $300 or $600/mo in expanded benefits, slashing hunger and giving families a little more wiggle room, would have paid political dividends.

Seemingly, it didn't and it hasn't. We live in bizarro world where a plurality of Americans think that unemployment is higher now than it was 2 years ago.

True and I thought that too. Maybe I'm naive but I would hope ending an extra income refund from the govt would hit harder than wiping out an entire debt balance. I mean, it's really $3600 vs $20-50k so I'd hope there would be a bigger outcry

iksenpets · Apr 26, 2022

Hollywood Duo said:
He's just waiting until midterms to get the most pop

I think that's what they're doing, and that they're way overestimating how much credit they'll get for it and underestimating how much ill will he's built up by keeping people in doubt for a year and a half.

HeySeuss · Apr 26, 2022

My understanding is that even if he does the student loans it's a specific kind of federal loan that counts, not all of them and if you've refinanced it you're boned. My wife owes about 180k from her law degree she got 20 years ago at like 6% apr and hers doesn't qualify.

Enthus · Apr 26, 2022

Ouroboros said:
My wife can finally quit her current job she hates so much that she only is staying because it qualifies for her loan forgiveness. She can finally do something she enjoys, that would be amazing.

Same here for my fiancee. I also have loans but don't qualify for loan forgiveness

VCFL · Apr 26, 2022

Hurry up!

effzee · Apr 26, 2022

The Albatross said:
I used to think this way until the child tax credit, which was super popular, died with barely a whimper and barely any notice. A lot of people didn't even know about it, didn't know they were getting it, didn't know 100% of Republicans voted to kill it. A year ago I would have thought that taking $300 or $600/mo away from middle class Americans would have made a dent politically. 2 years ago I would have thought that a Democratic plan to give working families $300 or $600/mo in expanded benefits, slashing hunger and giving families a little more wiggle room, would have paid political dividends.

Seemingly, it didn't and it hasn't. We live in bizarro world where a plurality of Americans think that unemployment is higher now than it was 2 years ago.

Yup. And if instead Trump/Repugs were doing this instead, it would have made a huge difference, for them. For most people, Dems just fail to do things, even when they are doing them, and Repugs deserve all the credit when when they kill the initiative(s).

Volimar · Apr 26, 2022

HeySeuss said:
My understanding is that even if he does the student loans it's a specific kind of federal loan that counts, not all of them and if you've refinanced it you're boned. My wife owes about 180k from her law degree she got 20 years ago at like 6% apr and hers doesn't qualify.

That suuuuucks. Advanced degrees are too expensive.

Thordinson · Apr 26, 2022

The Albatross said:
I used to think this way until the child tax credit, which was super popular, died with barely a whimper and barely any notice. A lot of people didn't even know about it, didn't know they were getting it, didn't know 100% of Republicans voted to kill it. A year ago I would have thought that taking $300 or $600/mo away from middle class Americans would have made a dent politically. 2 years ago I would have thought that a Democratic plan to give working families $300 or $600/mo in expanded benefits, slashing hunger and giving families a little more wiggle room, would have paid political dividends.

Seemingly, it didn't and it hasn't. We live in bizarro world where a plurality of Americans think that unemployment is higher now than it was 2 years ago.

Super popular? The CTC did not poll that well. Last few polls I remember, it didn't have more than 50% favorability. It not remaining permanent was polling higher than making it permanent.

TrojanAg · Apr 26, 2022

HeySeuss said:
My understanding is that even if he does the student loans it's a specific kind of federal loan that counts, not all of them and if you've refinanced it you're boned. My wife owes about 180k from her law degree she got 20 years ago at like 6% apr and hers doesn't qualify.

Why wouldn't she qualify if you don't mind me asking? Which federal loans would and wouldn't be eligible? I'm asking because all of mine are federal student loans that I consolidated when I started paying for them back in 2013.

Krakatoa · Apr 26, 2022

Why don't they pass something in the house/senate to fix the DACA issue forever?

etrain911 · Apr 26, 2022

Senator Toadstool said:
Garland is a shit AG and needs to be replaced. Don't put judges who pretend the law is neutral in charge of enforcing it. Was a dumb appointment to begin with to appease People obsessed with 2016

Garland is such a self inflicted wound. Really feels like the Dem version of doing stuff to "own the cons" rather than doing what's effective.

Deleted member 4090 · Apr 26, 2022

Krakatoa said:
Why don't they pass something in the house/senate to fix the DACA issue forever?

Because the Senate exists, and it has a 0% chance of passing there? Republicans will whip against it, so zero Republican votes when at least 10 are needed. No chance at all of it passing even with 100% Democratic support.

mbpm · Apr 26, 2022

No opinion until further information

Euron · Apr 26, 2022

It's such a layup to just forgive a portion of student loans in September then campaign for midterms on the promise of forgiving more in 2023 but I just feel like they'll do nothing and campaign on "we're sorry, we really tried"

Would LOVE to be proven wrong but the Dems haven't shown any promise to get people to think otherwise

The Albatross · Apr 26, 2022

Thordinson said:
Super popular? The CTC did not poll that well. Last few polls I remember, it didn't have more than 50% favorability. It not remaining permanent was polling higher than making it permanent.

In Sept 2021, it had about ~60% popularity. In a deeply polarized country, 60% support for something is pretty damn high.

For some comparison, blanket student loan forgiveness is much lower, generally rarely breaking 20-25% in most polls. Though some debt forgiveness, especially for low income people, has more support, up near 60%.

Thordinson · Apr 26, 2022

The Albatross said:
In Sept 2021, it had about ~60% popularity. In a deeply polarized country, 60% support for something is pretty damn high.

I misunderstood. The expanded CTC did poll well except when asked if it should be extended. Extending it wasn't popular.

Voters Are Divided Over One-Year Extension of Expanded Child Tax Credit

The measure is part of President Joe Biden’s Build Back Better Act, but that legislation – whose popularity has waned – is on hold due in part to West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin’s now-public opposition.

morningconsult.com

Continuing the child tax credit for at least one more year has the backing of 47 percent of voters but is opposed by 42 percent.

A poll closer to the same time as the Reuters one found:

54% support the up to $300-per-child monthly payments; 52% think it shouldn't be permanent

Deleted member 55524 · Apr 26, 2022

Lord Fanny said:
Explain how legal challenges to something that can't be done due to legal challenges to something that doesn't exist because of legal challenges that doesn't exist? Sounds kind of like a Catch-22!

This is nonsensical. The EO would be challenged on the basis that it messes with federal money, which is congress's job. That would go up to the Supreme Court, who will strike the EO down.

mztik · Apr 26, 2022

bonesawisready5 said:
BAH GAWD LOOK WHO IT IS! ITS STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS WHAT HE'S DOING HERE???

THAT LOAN'S DEBT COLLECTOR HAD A FAMILY GOD DAMMIT KING!!!!

HeySeuss · Apr 26, 2022

TrojanAg said:
Why wouldn't she qualify if you don't mind me asking? Which federal loans would and wouldn't be eligible? I'm asking because all of mine are federal student loans that I consolidated when I started paying for them back in 2013.

From what she has researched she said only certain federal loans apply and once you've consolidated or refinanced them with another lending company they are no longer considered federal loans. And there was something about the age of them too.

Kemal86 · Apr 26, 2022

HeySeuss said:
From what she has researched she said only certain federal loans apply and once you've consolidated or refinanced them with another lending company they are no longer considered federal loans. And there was something about the age of them too.

this is correct, the loans must be currently held by the government. consolidating/refinancing with another company means the government has already been paid back, and you owe the money to a private entity now.

Mariachi507 · Apr 26, 2022

There's that carrot on a stick.

onadesertedisland · Apr 26, 2022

GhostBed said:
This is nonsensical. The EO would be challenged on the basis that it messes with federal money, which is congress's job. That would go up to the Supreme Court, who will strike the EO down.

That Biden still floats the concept means that his admin seems to think otherwise.

I don't see how debt held by the DoE has any affect on the federal budget. All it would do is add to the fictional 'deficit'.

HammerOfThor · Apr 26, 2022

This is fine, but honestly, we need to fix the root cause otherwise, we wind up here again in a few years. This gets to the point of why even issue these loans to begin with, just autopay the tuition or something instead of doing this stressful and dumb song and dance.

jerf · Apr 26, 2022

falling for "hope" again

ThisThingIsUseful · Apr 26, 2022

I am 100% expecting this to happen.

Lord Fanny · Apr 26, 2022

GhostBed said:
This is nonsensical. The EO would be challenged on the basis that it messes with federal money, which is congress's job. That would go up to the Supreme Court, who will strike the EO down.

Of course it's nonsensical, because you're putting up a scenario that doesn't exist. There can not be legal challenges to a situation that has not happened. Like a lot of things with addressing Biden and his admins failing, it's just an excuse that sounds good for policy wanks, but it doesn't mean anything because it's not happened. Biden is going to face legal challenge no matter what he or his admin does in this situation. There is no path that isn't going to be challenged because there are too many vested interests in making sure loan forgiveness can't go there, so it's just fud to try and talk about legal challenges for situations that haven't even happened yet.

ThisThingIsUseful · Apr 26, 2022

LanceX2 said:
So is this making college free? Will my wife get paid back for what we paid for her college?

Paying off current debt does nothing for future students

Paying off current debt and fixing problems inherent in the system are two different things and are not exclusive to one another.

Forgiving debts is good economically and good for young adaults now.

Fixing structural problems is good for future young adults.

He can't get free college with this Congress. He can help with the debt issue.

It should be done regardless.

LegendofJoe · Apr 26, 2022

I expect nothing, so anything more than that would be great.

Friskykillface · Apr 26, 2022

Why use that ace now
Save that for 2024

Pretty much all talk

Hollywood Duo · Apr 26, 2022

Friskykillface said:
Why use that ace now
Save that for 2024

Pretty much all talk

If the Dems get wiped out in midterms his agenda is dead and hurts his chances in 2024.

The Adder · Apr 26, 2022

onadesertedisland said:
I'm not sure that federal student loans are dependent on any budget?

Forgiving loans is the same, as far as budget is concerned, as spending however much those loans total up to.

The executive cannot decide how money is spent. That is the purview of Congress.

Not every dollar Congress dispenses to specific things. There is discretionary spending.

Without an act of Congress allotting funds to federal loan forgiveness, any EO would have to use the discretionary funds alloted to the education department. (Or, if they could find some way to bullshit it as spending from another department, those discretionary funds).

If the executive spends more than that, it can be challenged in court by parties interested in doing so, and in all likelihood it will be struck down. Because the constitution pretty firmly gives control of the country's purse strings to Congress.

I'm guessing they're planning on pulling some legal prestidigitation to siphon off spending from other departments for this.

Thordinson · Apr 26, 2022

LanceX2 said:
So is this making college free? Will my wife get paid back for what we paid for her college?

Paying off current debt does nothing for future students

This doesn't make college free. He would definitely need Congress to do that.

Why would your wife get back what she paid? I didn't get back what I paid when my alma mater went tuition free. Everyone who paid medical bills without get reimbursed if socialized medicine passes.

Paying off current debt isn't meant to help future students. It's meant to help people now.

The Adder said:
I'm guessing they're planning on pulling some legal prestidigitation to siphon off spending from other departments for this.

Would there even be enough money to try and do that if it's all or most student debt?

The Adder · Apr 26, 2022

Thordinson said:
Would there even be enough money to try and do that if it's all or most student debt?

If they can justify pulling it from, say, Defense? Absolutely.

Thordinson · Apr 26, 2022

The Adder said:
If they can justify pulling it from, say, Defense? Absolutely.

Isn't there something like 1 trillion in federal student debt?

Hellwarden · Apr 26, 2022

Rep. Tony Cardenas (D-Calif.) initially raised the issue with Biden during the meeting at the White House. In an interview, Cardenas said he first asked the president to extend the moratorium past the Aug. 31 expiration date, and Biden responded with a smile, "Well, Tony, I've extended it every time."

Cardenas said he then urged the president to issue an executive order to relieve at least $10,000 in student loan debts. In making his case, Cardenas said he told Biden that Latinos in the U.S. who are carrying student debt still have more than 80 percent of their bill due after more than a dozen years.

Biden was "incredibly positive" about the idea, Cardenas said.

Another lawmaker in attendance, Rep. Darren Soto (D-Fla.), said Biden's response to lawmakers' requests to cancel at least student debt was essentially that he would like to do it sooner rather than later. The president suggested he is looking to take the executive action soon, telling the Hispanic lawmakers that they would be very happy with what he does next, according to aides briefed on the meeting.

I want to believe.

Cantaim · Apr 26, 2022

bonesawisready5 said:
Honestly even tho you're right, I think if Biden did an EO order to forgive it that no lawmakers or courts would challenge it willingly. That's a poison pill to take away tens of thousands in relief. It would only be fed loans tho. Biden can and has forgiven other student loans this term, why would this be different?

I don't know if it would be that bad of a pill to take for republicans. Like if you actually wanted student loan debt forgiveness you were never voting republican in the first place. Worst they'd lose are some independents. but if you were in a deep red state. Would that even matter?

Merv · Apr 26, 2022

Biden tells alot of people alot of stuff, especially right before elections.

Doran · Apr 26, 2022

Believe him after he actually does it.

Diarrhea Day-Lewis · Apr 26, 2022

Cantaim said:
I don't know if it would be that bad of a pill to take for republicans. Like if you actually wanted student loan debt forgiveness you were never voting republican in the first place. Worst they'd lose are some independents. but if you were in a deep red state. Would that even matter?

I think they'd be more concerned about corporate donors who will benefit so much from forgiveness. There is no way execs aren't working on plans to capitalize on revitalized spending once forgiveness goes thru.

It's not just the public bad pr, their biggest donors will benefit tremendously. They can complain all they want and look like conservative heroes against rampant federal spending but then reap the benefits of the new money that people with forgiven loans will spend on travel, Cars, houses, and even new smaller loans with banks

Thordinson · Apr 26, 2022

bonesawisready5 said:
I think they'd be more concerned about corporate donors who will benefit so much from forgiveness. There is no way execs aren't working on plans to capitalize on revitalized spending once forgiveness goes thru.

It's not just the public bad pr, their biggest donors will benefit tremendously. They can complain all they want and look like conservative heroes against rampant federal spending but then reap the benefits of the new money that people with forgiven loans will spend on travel, Cars, houses, and even new smaller loans with banks

There's a lot of money in buying and selling student loan debt.

Deleted member 55524 · Apr 26, 2022

Lord Fanny said:
Of course it's nonsensical, because you're putting up a scenario that doesn't exist. There can not be legal challenges to a situation that has not happened. Like a lot of things with addressing Biden and his admins failing, it's just an excuse that sounds good for policy wanks, but it doesn't mean anything because it's not happened. Biden is going to face legal challenge no matter what he or his admin does in this situation. There is no path that isn't going to be challenged because there are too many vested interests in making sure loan forgiveness can't go there, so it's just fud to try and talk about legal challenges for situations that haven't even happened yet.

This is still nonsense. You're argument is basically "try it and see what happens", but there are consequences to trying and failing. Think of what people will do when debt forgiveness goes through: they'll buy a house or decide to have another kid or finally get a new car. They'll use the money that was previously occupied for loan debt for other things. But once the SC strikes down the EO several months later, suddenly all those people with new expenses will be resaddled with their old loan. It could lead to extreme financial hardship for millions, much worse than what they are dealing with now while loans are paused.

I understand that you want action, even if risky, but the risks in this case fall on the electorate more so than the administration.

Biden Told Latino Lawmakers to Anticipate Executive Action on Extending DACA and TPS, Looking at Options to Forgive Most, if Not All, Student Debt

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