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iamandy

Member
Nov 6, 2017
3,301
Brasil
How did some people understand from this Bloomberg news that 50% of CONSOLES will be defective?

I know the news doesn't say that, I'm curious to understand how people extracted that information from the text. I tried and failed.
 

Brohan

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
2,544
Netherlands
Deflecting what exactly? It's clever wording on Sony's part but they are not denying the bad yields when they easily could. That's all I'm saying. They aren't lying, they are not even misleading.

I have no allegiance to plastic boxes, I know that's hard for most people who are really into console wars to grasp but it's true. Not that writing that out will convince any true warrior battling for their sacred cause.

I stand by what I wrote. The statement doesn't deny the bad yields and is cleverly worded to deny one specifc part of the story.

Actually it does indirectly deny those bad yields. The original report was that they had to reduce their expected number of playstations reduced by March from 15 mil to 11 mil due to bad yields.

Since they are denying the cut in production. There is no reason to still believe in the bad yields. Because how could they still make it to their forecast of 15 mil by March if they have such bad yields. Makes no sense.
 

Chamon

Member
Feb 26, 2019
1,221
Deflecting what exactly? It's clever wording on Sony's part but they are not denying the bad yields when they easily could. That's all I'm saying. They aren't lying, they are not even misleading.

I have no allegiance to plastic boxes, I know that's hard for most people who are really into console wars to grasp but it's true. Not that writing that out will convince any true warrior battling for their sacred cause.

I stand by what I wrote. The statement doesn't deny the bad yields and is cleverly worded to deny one specifc part of the story.
I think it is implied since they say that "the information provided by Bloomberg is false". Also it would be crazy to manufacture so many units with so bad yields. As Mr. Panello said, it will increase a lot the cost...
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Deflecting what exactly? It's clever wording on Sony's part but they are not denying the bad yields when they easily could. That's all I'm saying. They aren't lying, they are not even misleading.

I have no allegiance to plastic boxes, I know that's hard for most people who are really into console wars to grasp but it's true. Not that writing that out will convince any true warrior battling for their sacred cause.

I stand by what I wrote. The statement doesn't deny the bad yields and is cleverly worded to deny one specifc part of the story.
I wasnt talking about you. Sony were deflecting.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,439
When did they announce 15m for end of fy? I always thought it was 10m. ?? I mean the more the merrier 🙂 but I missed that t apparently.
 

RedHeat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,700
So technically could have had bad yields, but that also could've been a while ago and they improved signicantly so they can now ship 15m units.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Well lets wait and see what happens later this year. If the Stock price wasnt dipping they would have said nothing and Bloomberg are not video game journalists. Their sources are much more established in the supply chain
Lol bloomberg has had many joke articles over the years . U need to pay more attention . Anyways for time being all we can go by is the source. And source has denied
 

LordBlodgett

Member
Jan 10, 2020
806
So essentially, any functional chips that don't meet the clock/voltage/etc target would not be listed as a yield problem of the wafer but would still get thrown away?
Chips that are don't meet clock or voltage targets would be listed as a yield problem. If they were a standard CPU or graphics chip they would be "binned" into different categories and only completely useless chips would be tossed. So if, as an example, a chip could only hit target CPU specs on six cores then AMD would bin it and use it for their 3600 series, but if it could hit a higher frequency on all six cores then it would be binned as a 3600 X or 3600XT. Sometimes they will even turn off cores that don't hit spec and use it for a lower end model, so an eight core chip becomes a six core or four core chip. Neither Sony or Microsoft have that luxury. They have nowhere to put parts that don't meet their minimum speeds, so they are just garbage, lowering yields even further from a wafer. As both of these chips push things in different ways I would expect that they would have lower yields than standard CPU or Graphics chips as well. Microsoft is using larger dies, so they have less SOCs per wafer to start with, and they are also only disabling 4 CU out of 56 possible, so they don't have as much room for error. They did go with a much more reasonable clock speed though. Sony went with smaller die and so they immediately get more chips on each wafer, and also they have 4 CU disabled out of 40, which means they have more room for error. Sony went with a really high clock speed though, so that is where I imagine yields are coming down.
 

gzell60

Member
Oct 26, 2017
711
Munich
So still 15 M units by March 2021? They are going to undercut that 499 pricetag, aren't they?
349/449 or 399/449 are not entirely unrealistic.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
Can they lie about this being a public traded company? I thought that was actually illegal.
yeah its bad to lie about this stuff as a company, but also carefully worded things can soften the blow. But this does sound like they had a number in mind since they started manufacturing and they have plausible deniablity since they never gave a number publicly so they are good.
 

Deusmico

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,254
Chips that are don't meet clock or voltage targets would be listed as a yield problem. If they were a standard CPU or graphics chip they would be "binned" into different categories and only completely useless chips would be tossed. So if, as an example, a chip could only hit target CPU specs on six cores then AMD would bin it and use it for their 3600 series, but if it could hit a higher frequency on all six cores then it would be binned as a 3600 X or 3600XT. Sometimes they will even turn off cores that don't hit spec and use it for a lower end model, so an eight core chip becomes a six core or four core chip. Neither Sony or Microsoft have that luxury. They have nowhere to put parts that don't meet their minimum speeds, so they are just garbage, lowering yields even further from a wafer. As both of these chips push things in different ways I would expect that they would have lower yields than standard CPU or Graphics chips as well. Microsoft is using larger dies, so they have less SOCs per wafer to start with, and they are also only disabling 4 CU out of 56 possible, so they don't have as much room for error. They did go with a much more reasonable clock speed though. Sony went with smaller die and so they immediately get more chips on each wafer, and also they have 4 CU disabled out of 40, which means they have more room for error. Sony went with a really high clock speed though, so that is where I imagine yields are coming down.

ps5 using 36 out of 40cus is bigger leaway than the xsx of 52 out of 56. along with much smaller size in one of the reasons a much lower price can be achieved, if there are no problems. we will know all when price is revealed...
 

OtterX

Member
Mar 12, 2020
1,795
Can they lie about this being a public traded company? I thought that was actually illegal.
It's not necessarily illegal if the increased production wasn't officially communicated. It was a Nikkei and Bloomberg report that Sony never commented on. You'd have to prove it somehow. Good luck with that.

Either way, Sony needs to get out in front of this because their stock was taking a beating from the news this morning. They have to say something about it, and they have an interest in denying the bad news. That's not to say they are lying, but the wording does conspicuously cover them either way.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
I think it's pretty obvious from Sony's wording that they aren't lying...they can't be lying, they've never publicly announced their manufacturing numbers and they have not disclosed any yields. It's a very direct comment. No planes have changed. (We havent shared our plans so no one would know them anyway)
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
It's not necessarily illegal if the increased production wasn't officially communicated. It was a Nikkei and Bloomberg report that Sony never commented on. You'd have to prove it somehow. Good luck with that.

Either way, Sony needs to get out in front of this because their stock was taking a beating from the news this morning. They have to say something about it, and they have an interest in denying the bad news. That's not to say they are lying, but the wording does conspicuously cover them either way.
Their stock was not taking a beating.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,600
I think it's pretty obvious from Sony's wording that they aren't lying...they can't be lying, they've never publicly announced their manufacturing numbers and they have not disclosed any yields. It's a very direct comment. No planes have changed. (We havent shared our plans so no one would know them anyway)
So still 60 planes :-p
 

CrispyGamer

Banned
Jan 4, 2020
2,774
This information is so easily verifiable if an investigate journalist wanted to investigate, Sony can't lie about something this big move on and keep believing whatever you want to believe
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I think we'll know tomorrow
it would be interesting if they do say how many they plan to have available. But price def will give a clear ass picture.

It fell, so not exactly good news for them.
intraday stuff on the market isnt a big problem, they probally recover it all back if prices are in line with estimates.
ive been an investor when PS was only 20 bucks a share, im at like close to 80 Bucks now they are fine lol. and today its only a 1.62% today.