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Bloomberg: Nancy Pelosi Is Worried 2020 Candidates Are on Wrong Track
- Thread starter Deleted member 22490
- Start date
There's going to have to be massive education on why single-payer is the way. With what I know already, I support it, but I have a lot to learn about it too.
I honestly think you're full of shit. I don't see how anyone who has been effected by this administration could sit this one out. Trump and his goons have made it their duty to wage war on the disenfranchised. They have children in cages. They have ICE, their personal gestapo, dragging people out of their homes and destroying families. They continue to peel back the rights of the LGBT community and redefine what a protected class is. That's only a small fraction of what's going on.
So no, I don't believe you. You don't recognize and acknowledge that and be content to sit out. Not if any of that affects you or those you care about.
I'm not demanding anything. But sure man, don't vote and give Trump a better chance, I'm sure that will work out great. It sure worked in 2016.
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And you'd be entirely wrong. I'm not white and I'm not a liberal. And if it came down to Biden, I'd be very hesitant to vote for him. You bring up ICE raids and children in cages, but Biden would very much still bomb children overseas just like Obama did. Should I vote for someone who would do that?
So basically she's saying play by the book and do the same thing every Democrat does. Or said in another way, be like Joe Biden. Yeeeeah, considering your average Democrat tends to fail to get people fired up, imma go with a no on that one. People want familiar faces or, in troubling times, someone inspiring. Your average run of the mill milquetoast Democrat has no chance against Trump.
At the very least you should do what you can to keep the worse candidate out by any means necessary. Since you live in America and not a place with multiple valid options, you're stuck with the cards you're dealt.
At the very least you should do what you can to keep the worse candidate out by any means necessary. Since you live in America and not a place with multiple valid options, you're stuck with the cards you're dealt.
I assume it's been pointed out already, but in case it hasn't, this goes contrary to her criticism of Sanders and Warren:
That's exactly what Sanders and Warren (among others, <3 Beto) have been doing, so there's a big disconnect here.
Also, I believe this is correct:
If Sanders or Warren don't win against Trump next year, they won't be the problem. It will be proof that the country is the problem.
That's exactly what Sanders and Warren (among others, <3 Beto) have been doing, so there's a big disconnect here.
Also, I believe this is correct:
If Sanders or Warren don't win against Trump next year, they won't be the problem. It will be proof that the country is the problem.
Yours is a made up hypothetical. People are in cages RIGHT NOW. This is happening RIGHT NOW. Do you not care about them either? Biden would have the power to stop the raids. Does that not matter?
yes, we only exist on the internet. none of us interact with the general populace irl
democrats way of voter retention by shitting on its base sure is fascinating
I'm sure they do care, and the detention of minors would likely stop under Biden. The detention of other migrants and mass deportations? Maybe, maybe not. The workplace raids would likely stop, but deportations would remain high because I'm almost positive Biden would return to Obama's immigration policy...which involved mass deportations as well.
Chances of Biden doing things like...punishing companies who bring in and exploit undocumented labor are pretty low. Chances of Biden meaningfully reforming the immigration process are also pretty low. Chances of Biden meaningfully dismantling the war on drugs, massively changing the foreign policy approach to central and south America, expanding the number of refugees we take in from central and south America or taking in economic refugees are also unlikely.
So yes Biden would be an improvement over the status quo (which, to be clear, is an extremely low bar) but I doubt he will meaningfully address any of the substantive issues facing this country or the US role in other countries. I would definitely vote for him if it comes to him and Trump, but I absolutely do not want him to be the nominee. I think that's probably how most people who have problems with Biden feel.
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Made up hypothetical? Biden seemed fine with those bombings while serving as VP. I have no reason to believe that he wouldn't continue our shitty foreign policy. He voted for the Iraq War, after all. In fact, he is a fan of drone strikes. I care about what happens at the border (I'm an open borders kind of guy) so it all matters to me, but it's not the only thing. I also care about what we do overseas. So, please answer me: should I vote for someone who would bomb families?
I acknowledge and agree with all of that. I don't want Biden either. But I also think it's strange that people think that he would ignore/can ignore the progressive movement that has grown significantly over the last couple years. I think a Biden administration would be more receptive to ideas than the current one now, don't you think? Regardless, when given the choice between Trump and Biden, the answer should be obvious.
This whole "I would need to sit down and really ponder bringing myself to vote for him" is dripping in privilege and I don't care what the OP says - you couldn't possible possible give a fuck if you can sit out.
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Biden to rich donors: "Nothing will fundamentally change"
Along with praise for the "civility" of racists, Biden assures donors "no one's standard of living will change"
nope, there are numerous signals from dem leadership that they'll tie up any progressive legislation like they have done before.
even this topic is about one. when it comes down it, the dem party is a conservative party that is just a little nicer to the downtrodden to try to stifle an uprising
reducing it to a binary choice [esp regarding a choice that has yet to happen when everything being so far out] is part of the problem. also lets stop trying to count up privilege points please
More receptive than the current admin? Sure, but again that's an extremely low bar, and is not at all an assurance that they will do anything more than pay lip service to the progressive agenda.
Obama largely abandoned the progressive ideals he campaigned on, and Biden has never been a progressive in his political career.
I don't think it's privileged for someone to have to swallow their pride to vote for someone like Biden; plenty of the least privileged people in this country have been harmed by the policies he has championed over his career. Rather, I would say it's easy for privileged people to support Biden, because returning to the pre-Trump status quo is favorable to them even though it was terrible for millions of Americans.
Yes, if the choice is between Biden and Trump, people should choose Biden. But that's not the choice right now, it's specifically the time to PREVENT that from being the outcome because that's what primaries are for, supporting the candidate that best serves your interests.
Where are you from? A number of countries have a mix of public and private healthcare.
Unfortunately, the Supreme Court argument convinced no one in the last election, so I don't think it will work this time :( People get too hooked on their primary candidate, part of the reason I mostly avoid following this bullshit until the primaries actually start. I swear that one of the biggest problems with presidential election cycles is that they go on for far too long. Unfortunately this problem cannot be legislated away.
I think what makes it effective as a means of critique is that voting is like the bare minimum that we can expect from the electorate, which makes an inability or unwillingness to vote more conspicuous. Pragmatically, voting might be nothing more than a decision of which party (of the available options) should form government, like you say, but on the level of the individual voter, I think the act of voting is also interpreted just as much as a positive personal endorsement. And I'm not saying that that's how it should be, but I'm also not sure how you can expect a majority to show up at the polls without this kind of motivation?! That is, if the electorate is not being met with any kind of appeal that positively reflects what they think the future should look like, then they're not going to see much meaning in their actions as a voter period. Appealing only to negative arguments ('keep the GOP out!') seems like it must eventually become depressing or self-defeating if you can't form alongside it some concept of what positive project the act of keeping the GOP out might serve. Like if you're constantly trying to outrun an axe murderer but you never gain any distance from them and they're always just on your heels, eventually if given enough time you'll become so demoralized that you just let him kill you in order to end the constant pointless angst. The Dems just keeping the seat warm so the GOP can later form government again probably shouldn't be regarded as a satisfactory or worthy outcome by anyone, and in which case we should probably expect turnout to be low, because we're doing a really bad job of accounting for the motivations of people to actually extricate themselves from the awfulness and not just gain a few more meager days.
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The problem was that Clinton barely talked about the seat. Did you see a single ad on tv about it? Of the many errors in her campaign, that was one of the biggest. It moves votes if you actually campaign on it.
Hey, moderates - I do not owe you my vote. I never have, I never will. I will not vote for ANY candidate that you put up that is just another shitty, old white piece of shit that bends over for corporations. I am DONE going to the center. I am NOT a number for you. You come to the left, or you don't get my vote at all. I have spent over 3 decades "reaching across the aisle" for compromise only to get fucking Trump and for the left to be constantly told to fuck off.
I will not fall in line. I will not vote for someone who does not represent my interests. Biden is trash. He is firmly in the pockets of the wealthy, not the people. There is not a single thing you can do to get me to vote for someone like that.
Don't like it? Tough shit. I didn't like swallowing the crap you've fed me for my entire life. You will not get me to vote for someone who will continue to pull the world to the right ever again.
You have tried to pull this shit every single year for the entire 36 years I've been alive. No more. I am fucking done with any "Democrats" that demand that I vote for a piece of shit like Biden.
I will not fall in line. I will not vote for someone who does not represent my interests. Biden is trash. He is firmly in the pockets of the wealthy, not the people. There is not a single thing you can do to get me to vote for someone like that.
Don't like it? Tough shit. I didn't like swallowing the crap you've fed me for my entire life. You will not get me to vote for someone who will continue to pull the world to the right ever again.
You have tried to pull this shit every single year for the entire 36 years I've been alive. No more. I am fucking done with any "Democrats" that demand that I vote for a piece of shit like Biden.
OK, enjoy a conservative Supreme Court for the rest of your life. You better not bitch about it when they start stripping protections from minorities and women.
Not my problem, their problem. Sorry I can't do the absolute bare minimum for them and stop a monster like Trump with my vote. Same with kids in cages. Got to spite the Dems that's what's important, to me. And what I want is all that matters.
The thought of voting for Biden makes me angry too. But Christ people, we have a fascist in the office. These aren't normal times. Somebody already tried to argue in another thread that "then this country deserves Trump and needs to make better choices". Won't you be surprised that instead of voting for somebody like AOC in the future we instead get President Romney. That's the problem with instead of doing what you can now you just hope for the best. You can't know what will happen.
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Here is our problem. You vote Biden in and let's just say he wins against Trump. You're basically saying I prefer the status quo right now because Biden is not going to make any Progressive changes. Basically he's going to give you the bare minimum of progress, which of course he'll remove the kids from the cages, but what about our future?
The Man can't even remember the difference between Andrew Young and you want him to run our country is president? You know what's worse than Trump? Having your Democrat voters watching nothing change and getting disgruntled by our congressman and President. Oh and by the way there's an incoming recession on its way.
What it is going to do it's going to have democratic and independants voters sit out the next election after this one and you're going to find out the hard way what it means to have someone worse than Trump.
You're going to find out when you see a super majority of Republicans in the house and the Senate in 2024 how bad it really can get in the United States.
We are just lucky that we have a president that stupid in hiding his crimes. If we ever get a vile president that actually has common sense and know how to hide all the stuff from the public while doing underhanded stuff, it's going to get way worse before it gets better. This is why progression needs to start in 2020 before it can get downright disgusting when climate control starts really hitting this planet.
The Man can't even remember the difference between Andrew Young and you want him to run our country is president? You know what's worse than Trump? Having your Democrat voters watching nothing change and getting disgruntled by our congressman and President. Oh and by the way there's an incoming recession on its way.
What it is going to do it's going to have democratic and independants voters sit out the next election after this one and you're going to find out the hard way what it means to have someone worse than Trump.
You're going to find out when you see a super majority of Republicans in the house and the Senate in 2024 how bad it really can get in the United States.
We are just lucky that we have a president that stupid in hiding his crimes. If we ever get a vile president that actually has common sense and know how to hide all the stuff from the public while doing underhanded stuff, it's going to get way worse before it gets better. This is why progression needs to start in 2020 before it can get downright disgusting when climate control starts really hitting this planet.
Doing away with private insurance is a huge loser in the general election. The "Medicare for those who want it" strategy is the way to go, it comforts those who don't want change and gets people on board with a potential beneficial change. It's also easy policy to communicate. I think Warren's health plan and how it's not really paid for will be a huge drag on her in the general. In this economy there's an awful lot of suburban whites who are comfortable in life and Democrats had better win a healthy share of them or they'll lose.
Doing away with private insurance is a huge loser in the general election. The "Medicare for those who want it" strategy is the way to go, it comforts those who don't want change and gets people on board with a potential beneficial change. It's also an easy policy to communicate. I think Warren's health plan and how it's not really paid for will be a huge drag on her in the general. In this economy there's an awful lot of suburban whites who are comfortable in life and Democrats had better win a healthy share of them or they'll lose.
It's like certain people hope things get so bad that the American people just start crying for somebody like Bernie or Warren. The problem there is, it's almost as if they don't pay attention to politics to know that near 50% of the population will always blame Democrats for everything no matter how bad shit gets. Republicans are quite good at playing at the fears and hatred of America. They prey on the uneducated. This fantasy is never going to play out. They won't demand a Bernie, they will just be that much angrier at Democrats and nod their head when politicians start talking about how maybe it's time we gave up on this whole Democracy thing and just let Republicans govern.
Australia. As I said we have both, but people are deserting the private system and they're turning to government to save them. Recently the head of one of the insurers started petitioning the government to give them control of the public option because they can all see the writing on the wall.
Keeping the private system is a nice sentiment but it achieves little and its not worth the risk.
Considering the option in that case is between someone who would do drone strikes and someone who would do drone strikes and get Kurds massacred, put kids in cages, whittle LGBT rights, destroy the supreme court for decades to come, repeal the ACA, burn more fossil fuels, not less, and leave millions uninsured, and is quite literally a criminal, yeah, yeah you should.
There's a misconception here. People telling you to vote for Biden if he wins are not fans of Biden in the least.
Biden is a bandaid being put on a gunshot wound. Eventually you will either bleed out slowly or someone will come back with a Gun and finish you off.
That's why I am saying that everyone is putting their hope in Biden is just delaying the inevitable destruction coming our way.
2016 is an example of people sitting out and not voting while the uneducated and spiteful and hatred voters came out of the woodwork and made their point.
I can see 2024, some Republican, possibly young, will restir the base of the uneducated, spiteful and hatred...and this time, the right will have alt-right/white disgruntled youth prepared as voters.
Republicans actually go out and vote. But I can see democratic white voters and independents skip out in 2024.
Even as a black man, I'm having a Hard time voting for Biden because I know there will be no progress in my race except for the status quo. But if he's the primary candidate, I have no choice but vote for the bandaid. Eventually I'll have to decide if I want to leave this country if no progress is made in the next 8 years.
Nothing gets people out to vote more than a quote from Biden saying he will fundamentally change nothing.
I mean really Obama was a bandaid when you think about it. Our country is facing a serious problem right now, it either embraces progress or it regresses and we lose Democracy. I'm not sure anybody can say for sure which way it is going to go.
Given carte blanche Obama would've done a thousand times more than he did. Dude had a massive recession and only a few months with a super majority. The only President that had "I can do whatever the fuck I want" political capital was FDR. Republicans even voted in line with him.
Of course. But my point was, this country right now is embracing the status quo and doesn't seem to want to change much of anything. I'm hoping beyond hope we get past Trump and start moving in the right direction again even if it's just to stop things moving backwards for a bit. Just standing still or even taking a few steps forwards is a hell of a lot better than kids in cages and the attacks on civil rights of people that aren't White. People just don't stop existing and can wait it out. "Not as bad" is always better than "so bad it hurts".
What's frustrating is that people kinda ignore the history of it, the reason why things didn't get done, and instead insist that it's entirely the democrats fault and that nothing would change even if dems that are "centrist neolib scum" were given enough power to work with. Having an entire party whose entire argument is "government doesn't work" and who work hard to insure that it doesn't is crippling.
I hear you. And I'm not blaming the Democrats. I'm blaming the voters that keep voting to stop progress. They are voting for the death knell of Democracy and they seem perfectly ok with it. Democrats can't do much when near half the population doesn't want them to.
And aren't you ignoring the first two years of Obama's presidency when he had a Dem majority in the House and 60 votes in the Senate?
He had 60 for less than a year, Kennedy died, remember? Aren't you ignoring something that happened between 2008 and 2009?
Oh, and if you want to look into it, Kennedy dying is what murdered the public option.
I already addressed this but fuck it.
The fact that you're one who doesn't have to consider their reproductive rights,
You're one who's doesn't have to worry that who they love can effect their right to work
You're one who doesn't have to tell their kid to put their hands on 10 and 2 when they get pulled over.
Shows that's you're privileged, and that you're the exact kind of Democrat that some African-Americans are aware of.
Like we vote 97% Dem for no reason, fuck outta here.