Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,174
It was obvious when it officially went on sale 2 months after release. And then went to 40% off. Just recently, it got an even steeper discount at 50% off.

JW3Dgx2.png
That is completely normal for non-Nintendo games lol.

RE4 remake was $20 the other week and that game was a success.
 

ChaosXVI

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,916
Damn. So Rebirth really did do worse than XVI. That is completely insane. Maybe they released too close together. But without a doubt, PS5 exclusivity killed the reach of both games. At least they've already pretty much confirmed that's all over. The next mainline FF will launch day and date on all systems, including Nintendo, for the first time in 30 years.

Overall I think this will do a lot to recover the Final Fantasy brand. Nintendo owns a ridiculous share of the Japanese market, and Xbox is still worth porting to for some western sales.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,112
So all those people who said it met expectations and insisted it as having legs despite evidence to the contrary will surely admit they were wrong now, right?
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
107,187
So despite people trying to push one FF game above the other to fit their narratives, in the end everybody lost...
 

Theiea

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,596
Foamstars being exclusive never made sense to me. Why would you make a GAAS, and only put it on one platform?
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,151
It was obvious when it officially went on sale 2 months after release. And then went to 40% off. Just recently, it got an even steeper discount at 50% off.

JW3Dgx2.png

The goal always was having these types of sales though throughout this time frame. Plus, they are likely betting big on the PC version too.
 

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,654
Utah, USA
These declines taking place across multiple generations, and from one entry in a series to the next, speaks to way bigger issues than exclusivity. Going multiplatform wont stop this decline, they'll just be in decline on multiple platforms.
In the short term, they will see profit gains because the more platforms the game is available on, the more units they will sell. If they sell another 1 million on Xbox and another 2 million on PC, that makes the game more profitable than if they did a PS5 exclusive.

But yes, as games continue to get more and more expensive, this is just a band aid fix and won't actually fix the core issue.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,791
16 did meet sales targets initially. Now it's not. Guessing they planned in a DLC bounce. They're confident it will hit the 18 month mark, guessing that involves the PC port.

Pretty much. It really looked like they were hoping the DLC would revitalize things but it just landed with a complete thud. The SILENCE when they announced the DLC shadowdrop during the Game Awards was tangible. People just did not care.

It almost feels like heavily marketing Rebirth in the middle of XVI's launch months, combined with Baldur's Gate 3 coming out and absolutely turbo-flattening the RPG hype for 2023, absolutely massacred XVI's sales potential.

It also probably didn't help that, as I've been saying for way too long, stylish action games are just not that popular overall. The genre they picked is less popular than FF already was, and it did not help them grow their sales whatsoever.

In the short term, they will see profit gains because the more platforms the game is available on, the more units they will sell. If they sell another 1 million on Xbox and another 2 million on PC, that makes the game more profitable than if they did a PS5 exclusive.

A million copies on Xbox is a very enthusiastic expectation in an era where Xbox gamers expect games to launch on Game Pass day one and throw fits or don't bother playing them at all if they don't.
 
Oct 27, 2017
43,079
Well tbf it did meet initial expectations, but it sounds like it dropped off much steeper than they expected.
Which is basically what people were saying. The goal was to broaden the FF audience and even adjusted for fanbase (PS4 vs PS5) it sold below FF15, so I don't know why it was so contentious for people to admit that
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,151
User warned: Accusations of bias
So all those people who said it met expectations and insisted it as having legs despite evidence to the contrary will surely admit they were wrong now, right?

Need actual data than someone who has not shown clear bias against SE and FFXVI first. We don't know what the expectations even are.
 

oty

Member
Feb 28, 2023
4,628
I doubt a dual PC (or even xbox) release would help them hit the figures they wanted considering they wouldn't get extra cash from sony either, 16's non-RPG direction and 7R's structure/fake out put off a lot of people. It might have helped more than the sony bux alone though.
we have zero idea of their internal figures, but considering 3mil was a hit for XVI, a number that is nothing extraordinary, I'm not sure anyone is expecting some insane reach from SE here

So this is unequivocal proof FFXVI didn't reach sales expectations. At least there wont be any more 20+ page debates about that anymore.
So all those people who said it met expectations and insisted it as having legs despite evidence to the contrary will surely admit they were wrong now, right?
it reached launch sales expectations and didnt hit lasting sales expectations. to say it just didnt meet expectations is like saying Rebirth's sales are absolutely abysmal because they did not even reach launch's target, conveniently forgetting the line where they explicitly state that it doesnt mean it "sold badly".

we can use more than one sentence to explain a game's sales lmfao
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,473
Get FF7RIII to wrap up the trilogy and put a pause on FF development until they can formulate a solid package for a next mainline title that can hit the heights of the classics again. Games like XV and XVI have fallen short in many aspects and damaged the brand. They need to earn it back.

The 7R trilogy has tapped into a lot of that magic of the classics by virtue of having a strong foundation to work from with a team that knew how to reinvigorate for a three part requel. But that clearly has a ceiling in regards to growing the brand, and only an original mainline title that's firing on all cylinders like FF7R has been can do that.
 

Elyian

Member
Feb 7, 2018
2,627
Oufties, BOTH major titles missed the mark(at least long term for one). Though it's a good start, I don't think going multiplat is gonna solve this issue, they REALLY gotta get people to give a shit about this franchise again. We'll see if PC ports can get these two titles to make their long term goals, but I'm really curious on how they'll manage to get this series into being a thing again.
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,165
Seattle
In the short term, they will see profit gains because the more platforms the game is available on, the more units they will sell. If they sell another 1 million on Xbox and another 2 million on PC, that makes the game more profitable than if they did a PS5 exclusive.

But yes, as games continue to get more and more expensive, this is just a band aid fix and won't actually fix the core issue.
I don't think the main issue with SE is the same issue as the rest of the industry.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
117,791
Get FF7III to wrap up the trilogy and put a pause on FF development until they can formulate a solid package for a next mainline title that can hit the heights of the classics again. Games like XV and XVI have fallen short in many aspects and damaged the brand. They need to earn it back.

The 7R trilogy has tapped into a lot of that magic of the classics by virtue of having a strong foundation to work from with a team that knew how to reinvigorate for a three part requel. But that clearly has a ceiling in regards to growing the brand, and only an original mainline title that's firing on all cylinders like FF7R has been can do that.

They literally can't do this. Putting the entire series on hold until Remake 3 comes out means the next mainline FF game won't be out for a decade or more. They cannot let the gap be that wide, the series' mindshare loss would be so catastrophic it would be impossible to ever recover from.
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,750
Genuinely wonder how close to actually hitting 3m sold-through XVI is at this point. I doubt it's actually there, but I wonder how much the DLC pushed it.
 

hersheyfan

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
Manila, Philippines
B-b-but you guys said that it was selling in line with your expectations!

"Yes, at launch. After which, they proceeded to dip below expectations!"

PR doublespeak strikes again! 🤣
 

Jackcent

Banned
Apr 5, 2024
29
I can only assume the reason these games were exclusive to begin with is they assumed the money offered by Sony would eat any sales they would've had in that time period on other platforms anyway. In their brain, since PC is an evergreen platform, releasing late is not big deal.

Hopefully now they finally learned that IS. Brand AWARENESS is so important right now. There are so many games that exist and they're all fighting for our time and money. This situation will only get worse and worse as time continues to move and more and more games get made.

I won't deny that a lot of Final Fantasy fans are likely to own a PS5, but RPGs like this are just as popular, if not more so now a days, on PC. The market has shifted. PS5 isnt popular in Japan and the majority of people in Japan and other countries playing games on their PS5 are playing... well, the usual suspects. AKA not Japanese Action RPGS.

Let me know if my assessment is off base in anyway. But it's hard to shake this sense that the PS5 has become a bit of modern "dude-bro" console. Where a large portion of users are just playing the same thing, not interested in trying different things. To me that's the only way to explain some of this abysmal attachment rates among even niche first party titles like Demon's Souls. The audience simply isn't here, or at least not a large fraction.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,628
Providence, RI
That sucks, given the undeniable quality of both XVI and VII Rebirth.

The obvious problem lies with the exclusivity and it looks like while it worked out for them with Remake, it didn't work out with the new landscape that exists under XVI and VII Rebirth.

And this becomes most obvious when looking at the abysmal state of PS5 software in Japan: XVI and VII Rebirth are the #1 and #2 best-selling PS5 games of all time. Yet they are still not meeting expectations.

My guess is that not only will day-and-date PC releases alongside PS5 be a target moving forward, but Switch 2 versions of their big games will be on the radar as well. I'm not sure how that will work out for games like VII Rebirth but it is literally Square's only option for boosting their sales in Japan.

Xbox is the wild card and I wouldn't be surprised to see it still get skipped for a multitude of reasons.
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,207
Pretty clear this was the case, but their pivot isn't surprising. These games are way too costly to be locking to a single platform.

Foamstars is just...all around what. A GaaS of all things NEEDS to be given to as many people as humanely possible, even if I don't think this is a concept that would have gained much traction. Just so many dumb decisions.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,026
But Era told me that they are selling well and sales on Xbox and PC wouldn't move needle that much. But on serious note I am glad that Square finally realized one of their biggest issues. But as a PC player I will wait and see if they learned anything about PC releases and taking money from Epic for PC store exclusives. Good move would be getting KH on Steam for start.
 

Charpunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,729
Doesn't make sense to make games exclusive to one platform anymore if you expect to grow your audience.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,070
Rebirth is a long game. I wonder if that turned people off to it? HLTB shows a roughly 90 hour average playtime... it took me 115 and I was nowhere near getting the plat.
 

ze_

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,155
There's more going on with FFVII Rebirth than the game being a PS5 exclusive, though releasing on PC would have helped. This is a game with a very awkward proposition to players—a three part remake of a widely known story releasing over the course of a decade at escalating costs, from 60 to 70 dollars and from the last to current gen—and a sales ceiling set by the first entry. Sequels tend to sell less, and the pressure on players to play Pt 1 is higher than it normally is. They really should've gotten Pt 1 out on other platforms before Rebirth released. But it's a game in general that understandably feels impenetrable to people.

Square must have known there'd be a depreciation in sales. They'd be foolish not to expect it, so I'm curious what their expectations were. I doubt they were lofty but it'd be interesting information.
 
Oct 29, 2017
6,361
But Era told me that they are selling well and sales on Xbox and PC wouldn't move needle that much. But on serious note I am glad that Square finally realized one of their biggest issues. But as a PC player I will wait and see if they learned anything about PC releases and taking money from Epic for PC store exclusives. Good move would be getting KH on Steam for start.

Yeah, the "how" is what will matter most going forward.

Saying it is one thing, doing it right is another.
 

Rainy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,911
Also the problem with the timeline in the future is that they released two mainline FF titles in a span of like 8 months.....I'm guessing if not for COVID, XVI might've released in 2022 but that's terrible because if KH4/DQ12 don't come out in the next few fiscal years yikes.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
107,187
Games like XV and XVI have fallen short in many aspects and damaged the brand. They need to earn it back.

I'm scared to wade into this, XV I get given its troubled development, but I would say XVI is more a case of just failing to expand the audience than actually "damaging" the brand. It's not like it got shit reviews or something, and is also starting off as an exclusive.

We got the Bad Ending

Both sides looking like big losers.

Just a shame how things worked out since both games are great (well I assume Rebirth, haven't played it yet...), but there is a small part of me that finds it all pretty ironic given the endless arguing
 

sonnyboy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,306
FF16 is the game that controversially didn't have any/many POC's in it?

Damn, it's a shame it didn't sell as well as they anticipated. Lol ohwell.gif
 
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Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,750
BTW, it's worth noting that the concerns about XVI's post-launch sales go back to that one IGN article where they had heard that the legs had collapsed only a couple months in. S-E's response was to dodge the main question entirely, and deflect by reiterating that the initial sales met expectations.

That response got stripped of context so it could be spun for months across the internet (including here) as evidence that sales were fine.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,510
"Confident it will hit its 18 month goal"
Adding to that, the people that can't accept 16 was a complete product also can't read.
Accept yall were wrong! But that's not what it said... Accept you're wrong xD. lmfao some people.
Additionally it's not like anyone was wrong given that all we knew before this is what was already restated here that 16 was within expectations.
When new info comes up of course you adjust to that and in this case the info probably means the DLC didn't boost the sales as much as they thought so now it's on the PC version to push the numbers for that 18 month plan.

I'd say at this point in that that is probably overly optimistic unless the PC version really does a lot to be attractive but I don't see the hype for 16 rebuilding to boost the sales by several million. It's probably gonna be a few hundred thousand units extra is what I would guess right now.
 

Bebpo

Member
Feb 4, 2018
4,789
Also the problem with the timeline in the future is that they released two mainline FF titles in a span of like 8 months.....I'm guessing if not for COVID, XVI might've released in 2022 but that's terrible because if KH4/DQ12 don't come out in the next few fiscal years yikes.

Yeah.

If KH4 and DQ12 are in dev hell, hence the lack of showing, then after Dawntrail next month, SE has absolutely nothing for years. They are so.fucked. DQ12 is gonna need to save the company in the short term so they better do everything they can to speedrun that release.