The only really effective exclusives are first party. And that's probably how it should be.
[Bloomberg] Sales of FFXVI, VII Rebirth, and Foamstars failed to meet expectations
- Thread starter Clippy
- Start date
Yes. And your information matches the final statement by the company more, in fact. To be honest, my conversation happened in the context of the first two weeks.
Oh fair enough, that's my bad then I must be misremembering it or totally misread it at the time. I won't complain, I'd like to keep some turn based games around
This isn't exactly a truism across the board. Some younger franchises that are still growing do increase installment after installment, but it's not magic. You need to have a product that's appealing and an audience that's ready and interested in buying it, and if any one of those three factors underdelivers, you're screwed.
Look at the Saints Row franchise, as an example. A rollercoaster of a franchise full of ups and downs that ended in the series crashing into the ground at high speed and killed the developer entirely.
FF7 would have been the first FF to release in Europe, so maybe there's a slight bit more love? Hard to say though really, maybe XVI just wasn't as appealing to EU.
I mean do people really say that these days lol?
I remember that being a thing around the first Tomb Raider reboot game, and with regards to their western studio output. However that's honestly like a decade ago. I've not really heard it more recently. More recently most of the comments are about their awful marketing, and their poor exclusivity choices. I don't think anyone has said the games shouldn't be selling better, but they're selling worse because of decisions they made.
Maybe. Maybe not.
I am expecting Persona 6 to be a breakthrough moment for the series. Its reputation, management, and platform selection with near zero stumbles has given 6 that opportunity. This isn't copium, Sega Atlus have earned that possibility. We'll just have to see how it turns out.
I see two main issues:
Platform exclusivity
- It is dumb and needs to go away.
Final Fantasy VII divided into chapters
- When the "remake" was announced in...2016 (?) the hype was gargantuan. When it came out in 2020 the hunger was still there, but now it seems the hype effect is all but gone.
I am going to buy it when it comes out for PC, for sure, but is it my most anticipated release? Nope, specially knowing that yet another chapter is coming out.
Having to wait years for each release fucking kills all momentum..
Platform exclusivity
- It is dumb and needs to go away.
Final Fantasy VII divided into chapters
- When the "remake" was announced in...2016 (?) the hype was gargantuan. When it came out in 2020 the hunger was still there, but now it seems the hype effect is all but gone.
I am going to buy it when it comes out for PC, for sure, but is it my most anticipated release? Nope, specially knowing that yet another chapter is coming out.
Having to wait years for each release fucking kills all momentum..
Oh wow, it's even worse than I imagined. Once I saw the trailer it fell off of my radar and I never looked back. Thanks for the informing me about the additional issues.
Like I know I'm not buying P6 at launch at this point. Boring high schoolers again, combined with Atlus' refusal to let their first release of a Persona game be a complete experience so they can force a double dip a year or two later? No thanks. If I play it at all, it'll be when the fancy double dip rerelease comes out.
I think it would be an interesting case study to figure out how many people would have bought FFVII Remake if it was one game, non-exclusive.
I dunno that they would have sold as much as they did. But then again, maybe the whole thing costs less. You wouldn't even be worried about momentum because you're not waiting in between titles. And how much is marketing over all these years?
Legit think XVI and 7R are the best stuff they've put out since the PS1, but they're stuck in a place where their fan base really atrophied over the course of the PS3 years and the place to get new fans are on PC where they just aren't releasing right now. It'll be a bummer to have them targeting Switch 2 going forward when the high end spectacle has always been the key defining feature of FF, but I think that's probably the fate of virtually every game series over the next few years. You just can't afford to target only the top end anymore unless you have a guaranteed sales floor of like 10 million, which they never have
Honestly, this FF entry needing to be different is a lying retcon. It wasn't so different until 10.
I mean, my guy, FFX is over 20 years old by now. It's ancient lol.
They clearly have gone with a reinvention strategy since then. And the biggest confirmation of this was 16's radical departure.
Even in YoshiP interviews it was very weird. The justification. I still don't get why YoshiP was handed that project when his main series is an MMO and he went character action. It's just bizarre.
So you want them to release an utterly massive game with over 10 years of development, in one go? Sounds like a recipe for disaster and in today's age impossible. The remake would be wildly different and considering Rebirth to many is one of the finest RPGs of all time, I'd much rather it done in parts to help recover costs throughout. You have to wait years for sequels to your fave games. Does that kill your momentum and enjoyment to want to play those games? You simply have to think of Remake as not a single entity because it isn't.
I'm so sad this is happening. XVI was pretty good and Rebirth was game of the year quality. They are finally getting back on track. I just hope they are truly learning the right lessons here.
Well, in the case of 10-2 and the 13 sequels, I think they were all lower budgeted titles that were quite experimental compared to the mainline - so lower sales were probably expected. IIRC the 13 sequels were done in like a year as well and were important to cover for FF14 1.0 flopping like crazy.
As for Rebirth, there's a huge amount of potential reasons - like banking on nostalgia factor for a 25 year old game 3 times over is probably too much. Also, the whole thing around platform exclusivity certainly isnt helping capturing new audiences (Mass effect was constantly expanding day 1 availability for platforms as it went ahead, ME1 was only on xbox at the start, ME2 was xbox and PC, ME3 was xbox, PC and PS3)
Or just don't bother committing to remaking FFVII at all, since it seems like doing it right in a reasonable amount of time and retaining sales between installments is impossible. Spending (at the end of it all) 15 years of development, and the final years of some of their most legendary creators, on a remake of one PS1 game was a mistake. It never should've been greenlit this way.
An Elden Ring moment in that a popular series becomes even more popular, not literally that it's going to be as popular as Elden Ring. FromSoft games before Elden Ring were selling way more than Persona 5. If Persona 6 sold 5 million in a few months that would be huge.
Perhaps but I selfishly am glad it was done although my dreams of a VIII remake in a similar fashion are dead and buried :)
I don't think this argument is effective when we know what the original story is and how it's being spread across 10 years potentially.
No one told them to add enough content to OG FF7 to fill up 3 separate games, and I'm not even sure most of the fans even had that in mind when saying to themselves "man they should remake FF7".
In my opinion SE needs to do some serious soul searching regarding Final Fantasy (they should have done it years ago but now they have to) sort of like Zelda and Resident Evil did. They need to take a look at their beloved classics, identify the core elements that made them resonate with people and ask themselves how to adapt them to a modern video game context. Simply doing whatever and throwing random things at the wall hoping one sticks isn't working.
I mean, if that's what you're talking about, Persona 5 was that moment.
That's why I don't really consider these typical remakes--especially with KH level wackiness they added to it.
Funny, that was have FF9 was supposed to be haha. Another rumored remake, but less ambitious than FFVII especially.
And people called it concern trolling or doom and gloom whenever the sales discussions would come up. Even tough on surface level it absolutely was concerning.
Just hoping nothing about the third game is compromised. Has been one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time and have been constantly grateful it's been handled the way it has, but obviously chaining it to one platform isn't doing it any damn favors.
Right. And that's kind of the problem. I don't think there is enough of an audience for this kind of "it's a remake but it's also a new game ALSO it's metafiction ABOUT FFVII" game. It's trying to do too much and it's just alienating a lot of potential customers instead of drawing them in.
Like if you took a game that has Rebirth's wide range of content and wackiness and good vibe feels but ISN'T tethered to 25 years of angry shipper arguments and continuity porn and requiring new players to slug through ANOTHER full-length game just to play it, I think it would've done well. Like if you had all of those minigames and world map activities and character bonding exercises but it was ACTUALLY an entirely new game and not a remake of the second quarter of a PS1 game from 25 years ago, I think it would've caught on way more. Look at how much Baldur's Gate 3's charm and characterization resonated with people.
But instead the game has a daisy chain of albatrosses around its neck making it look absolutely impenetrable to anyone but diehard FFVII fanboys. And there just aren't that many of them left, as the sales have now clearly shown.
Pretty funny how myself and others (like GhostTrick ) for years were saying SE doing exclusives was really bad for the long term health of the FF. People here on Era were calling us concern trolls, haters, etc.
And yet here we are. Not the sole factor for underwhelming sales but it is certainly a major factor. SE needed to meet where their customers are and they are just finally realizing that it's not just Playstation.
It's a shame, I like FF and want to see it do well. But these changes I hope will slowly start to turn the series around sales wise.
And yet here we are. Not the sole factor for underwhelming sales but it is certainly a major factor. SE needed to meet where their customers are and they are just finally realizing that it's not just Playstation.
It's a shame, I like FF and want to see it do well. But these changes I hope will slowly start to turn the series around sales wise.
We just didn't have enough data and SE was being coy, as per usual. Meaning they took ages to even address FF16 after the initial sales.
I was there with you. But I don't remember pushback directed at me.
But my biggest argument wasn't the pure sales one. The detractors were focused on the moneyhats and lower Xbox sales by volumes.
My argument was a brand equity one. All big third parties are understanding that cultivating brand awareness is very important today.
SE basically got snookered by Sony money to the detriment of their brand equity, which is a longer term play. But SE leadership is clueless. They're not strategic. Same with selling off their Western studios.
Look at all the FF14 players excited to play FF16, but have to wait now. It's a buzzkill.
The whole reason SE sold off their western studios is because even though the games were selling well, the profit margins were extremely tight. Games cost too much. And it was clear there wasn't great communication between west and east.
Taking some time to sleep on this, I am dismayed to see so many people misread the tweet, which seems suspect either way since he even stated he's assuming things in the article. The article and tweet does not say either rebirth bombed, it apparently sold well. It just didn't meet whatever 'expectations' SE had for it. SE has completely misread the market this generation so I am willing to bet their expectations are ridiculous. Even still, though it is taking longer than they wanted, they feel FFXVI will be getting to that level within the next year. I really think the Japanese market completely collapsing for PS5 games is the true culprit here. Each title should have sold a million more in an older time.
It's almost like remakes can't save a struggling studio. You need to look forward, not expect a nostalgia hail mary to attract new customers.
Nostalgia only works when there are nostalgic people who want to buy your product, and 90s gamers are aging out of that category. A lot of us have kids and jobs and can't spare the time to buy a remake of a game we played when we were 10. Much less 3 remakes of the same game split over a decade.
Said it before, FF series isn't gaining new audiences at a rapid pace, it's mostly aimed at those who who are very long time fans. Add to that non Nintendo exclusives aren't big enough to carry your console this gen it's no wonder sales are lower than expected. I think even if FF goes multi again there needs to be a shake up because the mainline series has no identity, I don't think it's even worth calling a JRPG anymore after 16. The FF7 project is keeping the old school going but LBH it's a segmented incomplete remake of a game from the 90s, it's not going to be be that accessible for many.
As for foamstars that was a total disaster. A poorly done rip off of splatoon, MTX galore and locked to 1 platform to limit audience. Genius.
As for foamstars that was a total disaster. A poorly done rip off of splatoon, MTX galore and locked to 1 platform to limit audience. Genius.
if FF7 Remake was a one and done game and released on xbox and PC alongside PS4 day 1, it'd have sold over 10mil by now.
Making it into a trilogy was always a MASSIVE risk, the opposite of an emergency button.
Even with how they did frame it, their stock price plummeted.
If it did bomb, and we can only speculate, I don't think that would be eager to come out and say it.
Their silence around the sales numbers and the legs of Rebirth are why people get the feeling things are worse than they seem.
I don't know who greenlit Foamstars. A much less charming Splatoon ripoff.
Saint's Row 1-3 had ever increasing sales and critical reception though. Only Saint's Row 4 broke the trend by reviewing slightly better than 3 but selling much worse, and the latest game reviewed poorly and sold poorly. Generally the series showed that if you make a good sequel it will sell better.
I mean their HD games were losing money (50 million dollar) in a fiscal year where their two biggest Flagship titles games of the last few years came out. I like to be positive and wish these game will sell well over the years (especially on PC and Switch 2) but I think Square's expecation would be to at least gain money from their releases and not lose it...which seems fair.
I don't think it's so much experimentation, just the way they rotate the games out to different teams. after FFX (or argumentatively, after FFIX) no mainline FF was particularly "iterated" on, unless you count the XIII sequels as mainline games
some will say just go back to the basics like a modern day FFX or something and maybe that'd end up great but that would be pretty boiler plate jrpg stuff this day and age
what I would give to not have to play nintendo games on nintendo hardware
They don't literally have do FFX's system at all, but turned based systems are fine. Heck, even FFVII Rebirth system is more in line with the series than the stuff we saw with FF15 and FF16.
Also Like a Dragon, Persona, and Pokemon have these systems. You don't need stuff shiny and new for every entry.
For real, a Chrono Trigger remake with Toriyama's art style and gameplay like the original would have the potential to outsell recent Final Fantasy games. It of course would have to be well made and they shouldn't overcomplicate things. Just a clean retelling of the story in one package.
The only reason this is even a question is because of hindsight, knowing that the game did get split into 3 chapters. No fan was even thinking of this possibility before it was floated by SE, and every fan would've been over the moon to get a more direct remake of FFVII in one game with less open world bloat added. Remember the days of the Hashimoto troll laugh? This was not an audience that was thinking three games or we riot.