This.
Yes. It is to the general public.
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This.
Yes. It is to the general public.
I mean, its American to its core; I was taught that the Americans had an obligation to murder Native Americans because they attacked 'us' first. Kids games like Cops and robbers. Liam Neelson's resurgence as the angry middle aged white man pushed too far to the Dirty Harry series of the 70's and 80's.
It's very much a society rooted in vigilantism adulteration. A huge hard on for killing 'criminals'
God, looks like most of the deaths are from when he hit the Dancing Granny's. So horrible.
Nothing really feels like enough with some crimes. There's not any kind of justice or revenge that brings people back.
People in the US really buy into the whole Dirty Harry, swift justice bullshit. I have no doubts that if you brought back public hanging, firing squads or drawing and quartering, there would be a massive live crowd for the televised murder sponsored by Nestle.
I do IT work at a correctional facility. I'd consider the facility more a model for how things should be than typical or representative or your average prison or jail.
Part of my job is running various reports for freedom of information act requests, on demographics and sentencing etc (which obviously our facility has basically zero control over).
And for what it's worth, I agree with you here 100%.
Hmmm all this talk about being hard or soft on crimes. I am curious about other places in the world that are super hard on crime such as Singapore. They are famous for being extremely tough on crimes and I am curious about their results. Since I don't live anywhere near there, I don't hear a lot of news from there. But the typical things I hear are mostly that they're very safe and people are happy. So is it truly conclusive that being "tough on crime" can only lead to failure? What are they doing right that the US can learn from?
yeah "justified" unilateral execution is the core of most American media, especially during the formative eras of film and TV
The US prison population (per capita) is ~3.5 times higher than Singapore.
If putting people in prison and having harsh prison sentence made a country safe, the US would have been the safest country in the world.
As someone who has been more closely affected (effected?) by this situation I can tell you that wanting to kill the guy who did it is NOT on top of my mind right now. I don't mentally have the space for that vengeance TBH and it is truly a luxury that all the people here get to speculate and want someone beaten and dead. I am glad you all have the privilege to be disconnected from the situation enough to just keep on going about how we need to kill the killer and beat him every day in jail.
Honestly this is really all just awful. See my previous post, I have literally walked the street it happened on numerous times. This is personal. I am a bit numb to the whole thing right now but I can say that revenge is not top of mind. Now I am just one person and everyone has a completely different reactions and coping mechanisms but from what I can see there are very few locals in here talking about wanting to kill the driver. Most of us locals are just trying to cope with the ongoing tragedy. Justice will come later. At least he was caught and can face judgement so there may be some form of closure for the victims and families of the dead.
Deterrence doesn't work. It's bizarre to imagine that most people who commit crimes plan to get caught and punished, or are in a state of mind rational enough to coolly evaluate the consequences of their actions.
Surprised no one talked about this..
https://nypost.com/2021/11/22/illinois-dem-calls-wisconsin-christmas-rampage-karma/
What a disgusting take on the matter
https://nypost.com/2021/11/22/illinois-dem-calls-wisconsin-christmas-rampage-karma/
What a disgusting take on the matter
Singapore is an incredibly tightly controlled, small city-state that can be policed to a far more exacting degree than a country like the USA, or pretty much anywhere else in Asia or Europe. People aren't discouraged from committing crimes in Singapore by the spectre of punishment, but by the absolutely omnipresence of enforcement and surveillance.
It's tempting to do so, but I don't think you can (or should) use Singapore as an example of a desirable approach. First, because the route they take isn't really feasible elsewhere for practical reasons. Second, because it's also not a level of constant scrutiny that I believe most people in the US / Europe would be willing to live with - even in exchange for greater safety and security - making it culturally unworkable as well.
Probably because it's a a social media director for the Democratic Party in DuPage County, i.e. a fucking nobody.
The NY Post just doing NY Post things.
This. There's a conversation to be had about the failures of the criminal justice system. But this asshole ain't in that bracket. Prison is exactly where he should have been given his history of violence. This dude was on bail for some weed charge.
At the end of the day he made his choice and needs to be removed from society so he can't harm anyone else.
Call me cold hearted whatever but him and anyone that does things like this or schools etc..there is will never be enough punishment to fit the crime.They are mentally scarring people for life. You don't see something like that or be part of it and just go on with your days like normal after that..especially all the children there..I'm getting very angry thinking about it.
ugh just read about this.. dude is my age.. can't even imagine what snapped in his mind that he decided to do this. just sickening, senseless.
the only "positive thing" that i can say that at least this doesn't happen often :/ an 8 year old could mass murder like this, such a cowardly chickenshit way to kill people, requires zero effort or planning or anything, anyone capable of pushing down the gas pedal and turning the wheel could do this. just fucking pathetic. so in that sense its good that it doesnt happen often, it could happen hundreds of times every day all over the world because its so easy.. but it doesnt, because the vast majority of us aren't murderous psychos. thank the heavens.
RIP to the victims, incredibly awful way to end a life..
the only "positive thing" that i can say that at least this doesn't happen often :/ an 8 year old could mass murder like this, such a cowardly chickenshit way to kill people, requires zero effort or planning or anything, anyone capable of pushing down the gas pedal and turning the wheel could do this. just fucking pathetic. so in that sense its good that it doesnt happen often, it could happen hundreds of times every day all over the world because its so easy.. but it doesnt, because the vast majority of us aren't murderous psychos. thank the heavens.
RIP to the victims, incredibly awful way to end a life..
You're not cold hearted at all.
This kind of person deserves the worst.
Poor people. He drove through the most vulnerable people possible, horrific.
And all peopleare going to conclude certain spikes in crime just need more prison. It doesnt work. we need way more social programs and get people off the wrong track as soon as possible and create alternate opportunities and ways to express emotional issues etc. But nobody ever wants to take it seriously. Its so dumb.
I didn't read it here but I did read it on Facebook. Disgusting
I think most people are used to this type of behavior on this forum. It's disgusting but it's nothing new.
You raise a good point. So I wonder what other factors are at play here. A place like Singapore clearly has a reputation on being tough on crime. So how come they have smaller prison population per capita compared to US? Is there truly any correlation to population safety and prison population per capita? Could their "prison" be much better targeted at the right people who need to be in prison? Are the US prison more filled due to re-enprisonment? Meaning, repeated offenders? That would suggest that the prisons in US are actively contributing to the worsening of this problem, which may make sense due to its for-profit motive.
Well, I don't think we can conclusively say that one way or another. Tourists in Singapore know not to spit out their bubblegum, for example, because they would get punished for it. So I would say the deterrence works there. But it is likely not something we can generically apply to all situations. So I do hope we can continue to look around the world and find what works and what doesn't. Denmark/Norway are known for being progressive but they are also having covid lockdown riots currently. So hence why I feel like it's not a good idea to generically say "X" definitely works better than "Y". It definitely must be something more complicated than just generically go soft or hard on crimes.
I picked Singapore purely as just an example. I find it helpful to do comparisons and learn what other countries do that work and don't work. You bring up very good points so I thank you for that! I just don't like the broadstroke binary view on "soft on crimes" mean X and "tough on crime" means Y. It's a whole spectrum and I am just curious and want to discuss it!
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Ehh, a Rupert owned media source, particularly the NYPost, talking about a local Dem politician isn't as much of a gotcha moment as one would think.
I haven't really dove deep into the weeds here, but considering the whirlwind of politic takes here along with bans pretty sure the shitshow was beyond posters asking for 'karma' as the sole problem here.
You are always going to have shit takes from all sides, The left is no different.
Unbelievably tragic and gut wrenching situation. Hoping all those with injuries make a full recovery.
Responses like this make me so sad. This is how we get saddled with stuff like minimum prison sentences or huge cash bails for petty crimes. The belief that we should keep more people in jail for longer is misguided at best.
FWIW I'm not defending the perpetrator, and I am fine with him facing jail time. He destroyed so many lives.
That is not the lesson. Locking more people up doesn't solve anything. This person was funnelled in and out of the justice system without ever receiving the help they needed. This might not have ever happened if we were better at rehabilitation.
Responses like this make me so sad. This is how we get saddled with stuff like minimum prison sentences or huge cash bails for petty crimes. The belief that we should keep more people in jail for longer is misguided at best.
FWIW I'm not defending the perpetrator, and I am fine with him facing jail time. He destroyed so many lives.
I mean probably, as long as it was state sanctioned I guess. Because I know if guy got killed in prison by another inmate there'd be people who oppose the death penalty who'd either be posting celebratory gifs or just not care about it, same for anyone the majority hate here.
I mean, its less prison than stopping the problem from growing in the first place. I mean the basic concept of someone being born 'bad' is kind of a basic brush we paint a huge amount of the population here, as if other aspects don't play a part. Like not to say those Scandinavian countries aren't horrific crime free, but it remains a rarity because honestly that pipeline isn't there the way it is in the US.
And its funny how right wing media -almost- gets it but makes it a personal or parental failing as far as a pipeline existing to criminality. Not sure in this case, this asshole might have been a terrible individual out the womb and this might have been an inevitability no matter where he was. But, the things that are proven to stop crime worldwide, robust social safety nets, a focus on rehabilitation, readily available mental health and substance abuse services, etc…are pretty non-existent here. Might not have stopped this crime, but it would stop most.
Dude was accused of a DV dispute last week where it was alleged he ran over someone. Christ. Right before he drove thru the parade he was involved in another domestic incident.
He never should have been released on bail.
He never should have been released on bail.
Do you know how many thousands of people go through the justice system every month? Keeping every single accused person locked up until their trial is cruel and inhumane. There are thousands of people facing similar charges to this man, but none of them will drive their fucking car through a parade. It is fine if they are out on bail.
Locking up everyone with "just in case" reasoning is a really terrible way to run a prison/jail/justice system.
What more is there to even talk about at this point? This idiot from Illinois approached the topic in the same way numerous assholes online have.
Anytime there's a tragedy of any kind you're going to get people like this latching onto it who just HAVE to put in their two cents or get their snarky take on the matter heard…
Woah don't quote me on this please. I am 100% anti capital punishment and I am even against mandatory life sentences. I live in a country where executions have not been a thing since the 60s and it hasn't had a single impact on the crime rate in this country.
In regards full life sentences - I believe you can have a sentence that exists that keeps people locked away for enough time that they pay for their crime and still have the ability to be rehabilitated. We had a recent case here where a murderer was released on license but immediately started stalking women so was returned to prison.
Rehabilitation doesn't always work so life sentences should exist. My original point was that I can understand people involved in the case, either by relations to victims or even the area, being vengeful. I'm not saying you are all out for blood.
Oh my bad I was agreeing with you and your post. I was more trying to affirm what you said instead of counter it. I was just heated in the moment and didn't say that in the beginning. Sorry about the confusion!
yeah, especially when the right were trying to steer the narrative right from the beginning lol
This.
Not to mention, people will be found innocent of the charges and are falsely charged. People think everyone should be locked up "just in case" until it happens to them or their family and friends.
A few people in this thread made the same shitty "joke".
Sometimes I feel like humanity is incompatible with the internet as a concept. All this instant access and live coverage of events encourages people to say whatever is on their mind with no filter and this thread is a great example of it.
God, I just… I absolutely fucking hate the lust to know the killer's name and all their life details in situations like these. BREAKING! BREAKING!
Pieces of shits should not be made famous for killing people. I know that's just never gonna happen, that the people love their information and history logging, but fuck. Giving these assholes the infamy they want enrages me. They do not deserve wikipedia articles.
Pieces of shits should not be made famous for killing people. I know that's just never gonna happen, that the people love their information and history logging, but fuck. Giving these assholes the infamy they want enrages me. They do not deserve wikipedia articles.
Would bet this fuckface isn't wasting a single thought on the physical and mental trauma hundreds of people in that parade will have to live with for the rest of their lives.
Find a hole and throw him in it to be forgotten like the piece of trash he is.
Find a hole and throw him in it to be forgotten like the piece of trash he is.
It's the hot takes and assumptions that every catastrophe is an opportunity to reinforce that your view of the world is just that correct. It's one thing to get facts wrong as they emerge (which can even be dangerous) but to do so deliberately because, "if X was true that would really confirm my beliefs about Y". And at the end of the day, letting everyone know you're right about Y is more important than whatever tragedy.
Just look at the whole Timothy Simpkins thing, in which the takes flowed as narratives were built. Then those narratives imploded--even the bullying angle--until people had to concede the situation reeaaally wasn't great at proving whatever thing they wanted to prove and the story vanished into the ether.
I said in the post you quoted that social media posts don't count as a receipt. And in another post, you cited something from the fucking NY Post. Pretty damn irresponsible of you to be dropping takes in here from disreputable news sources. This is how disinformation gets spread.
This has been awful to read, and I can't possibly imagine the grief and trauma that everyone affected is going through. I hate sitting here not being able to do anything, and I hate that these terrible events will happen no matter what.
However, I will never support the death penalty and it is never appropriate.
However, I will never support the death penalty and it is never appropriate.
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