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BREAKING: Robert Mueller has completed his Russia investigation (SEE STAFF POST)
- Thread starter mescalineeyes
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It's more like everyone trying to shake the same gift under the tree to figure out what's inside, while half the people shaking the box are already disappointed that the wrapping paper doesn't form the shape of handcuffs.
Trump's going to show the world that in America, white wealthy people fail upwards and never suffer, unless they harm the ones who run the stock market.
He could be caught on camera harming children, be it violently or sexually, and the GOP would still defend him. Who here really believed that Trump would be recommended to be impeached by Mueller? The Senate isn't going to have that even if they have tapes of him talking with Putin about all this, and McConnell will make sure it doesn't get anywhere close to being entertained.
Trump's danger has always been in New York, the home of most of his crimes. If the SDNY can dissolve his organization and he doesn't fight back, where the New York Times says he and his family have committed felony fraud against the city and Trump doesn't go after them for libel, there's a mountain of material there that will, at the very least, bring his children down. That's the best thing we can hope for: it's his children who should be undone by his behavior.
He could be caught on camera harming children, be it violently or sexually, and the GOP would still defend him. Who here really believed that Trump would be recommended to be impeached by Mueller? The Senate isn't going to have that even if they have tapes of him talking with Putin about all this, and McConnell will make sure it doesn't get anywhere close to being entertained.
Trump's danger has always been in New York, the home of most of his crimes. If the SDNY can dissolve his organization and he doesn't fight back, where the New York Times says he and his family have committed felony fraud against the city and Trump doesn't go after them for libel, there's a mountain of material there that will, at the very least, bring his children down. That's the best thing we can hope for: it's his children who should be undone by his behavior.
Barr will give Trump the chance to claim executive privilege on specific parts if he thinks there's an issue. Otherwise hands off.
My thoughts as well. Trump is immune to all the bullshit like Stormy Daniels, Hollywood Access Tape, and dozens of other incidents that would have buried anyone else's career. Did anyone think the Mueller investigation would have been any different? His base will stand by him no matter what. How have people not learned this yet? The report will disappoint and be huge ammunition for Trump and the GOP come 2020.
Who knows. My understanding is that Trump COULD if he wanted to, but has probably been advised that he 100% shouldn't.
In the absence of information for us, what is Trump doing this weekend? Is he golfing at Mar-a-lago, all smiles, or is he hiding in the WH residence and rocking back and forth muttering to himself?
Maybe not "cleared" but it's damn hard to go after a President for obstruction. He didn't fire Mueller despite trashing him every day and he has Constitutional authority to fire Comey, despite it being shady.
Ironically I wonder now if the best hope for impeachment was him firing Mueller.
He isn't likely to be *cleared* of anything.
Choosing not to prosecute doesn't clear that person's name (nor prevent you going after them for those same charges later on, so long as the statute of limitations hasn't played out). Was Clinton 'cleared' by the FBI's decision not to prosecute her in 2016?
I've never been sold on the idea Trump knowingly conspired with Russia. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. Maybe this report will confirm the truth, maybe it won't.
But his lawyer went to jail for a felony that Trump ordered him to commit that has nothing to do with Russia or Bob Mueller. That same lawyer told us about other ongoing investigations into Trump (presumably for tax / loan fraud).
Yes GOP politicians and Trump faithful will spin spin spin. They were going to do that even if the Mueller report recommended Trump be indicted the minute he is no longer President and clearly spelled out all his crimes.
I think you may be right. I imagine he was itching to do so on many occasions. Trump not firing Mueller likely saved his Presidency.
I am slightly surprised Kushner and Don Jr it seem to have avoided indictments by Mueller. Maybe he just didn't have enough evidence.
Many of the indictments were for process crimes(Manafort the exception)
Gotta stop putting so many eggs in one basket. Trump is still all the things he is and done all the terrible things he's done. Just because Mueller doesn't indict him for conspiring with Russians to win the 2016 election doesn't mean the report isn't damning in other ways, nor does it halt the other investigations into him.
You're off your rocker. Humanizing the people is never bad. The government isn't synonymous with the people.
Are those things true or not? Genuinely curious.
It is and it will very likely be in the report among a lot of other things related to obstruction of justice. The problem for Trump is that he exhibited a pattern, so it will be difficult to defend him.
His supporters and the GOP will defend him anyway. There is nothing that this man can do wrong in their eyes, and even if there is, they won't say a thing.
Disagree.
Sometimes he disagrees with you and that is okay.
Anyone who thinks he's a secret Russian stooge or right wing pundit is full of it.
There was a lot of reports and smoke around Trump colluding with a foreign government to win the election. So far, there hasn't really been concrete evidence of this. Greenwald may actually be on the right track in terms of criticizing the coverage. I watched the coverage and thought it was only a matter of time before they get something on him.
What we have right now is a situation where we have a scummy corrupt President who thrives in filth, but we don't really have anything to confirm he is a Kremlin asset. This is the leap people like Greenwald refuse to make. We will see what the end result is, but in general, the press was making that leap for us and everyone who wasn't tough on the Reds could be thrown on the pyre as either a secret Russian plant or an unwitting stooge as Twitter Charlatans told daily tales of raids and secret indictments.
What happens is you are giving countries like Russia too much credit and influence. You are playing into their hands. Putin is now being seen as a puppet master of the leader of the free world by the left and Russia can use this to project power. I want to see what the findings of the report are first, but Greenwald's statement that based on the evidence the coverage and fervor of pundits has not matched the actual evidence.
A Kremlin asset, no, but he did publicly and openly ask Russia to hack Hilary's emails, and they did.
He did publicly and openly admit he fired Comey because of the investigation into his involvement with Russia
He colluded, and he obstructed justice, and how we know is, he did both on TV in front of the world.
He did publicly and openly admit he fired Comey because of the investigation into his involvement with Russia
He colluded, and he obstructed justice, and how we know is, he did both on TV in front of the world.
I'm suprised we haven't seen any Trump tweets yet... Tomorrow morning should tell us if its a good or a nothingburger report..
No indictments today makes me pessimistic. Feels like they couldn't make a strong enough legal case to charge conspiracy (even though there's already easily enough public evidence in court documents, etc, to see what happened)
So, no legal recourse. And as far as Congress doing its duty... The GOP is happy to die on this hill, they've already shown it. And I get the feeling the Dem leadership (e.g. Pelosi) would rather Trump stay president so they have a "better" chance in 2020.
feelsbadman
So, no legal recourse. And as far as Congress doing its duty... The GOP is happy to die on this hill, they've already shown it. And I get the feeling the Dem leadership (e.g. Pelosi) would rather Trump stay president so they have a "better" chance in 2020.
feelsbadman
I think charging POTUS was never on the table. No matter what he did. He would need to be impeached first. I also think they wouldn't go after his family while he was still in office.
It's not this. Trump is a bad President. We don't know what the results will be of the Mueller report, but Greenwald's reaction is legitimate.
Dude is living in Brazil in opposition to a fascist Trump-inspired bigoted leader. People are on here acting like he's a Russian stooge because he disagrees with the premise that a thread exists to prove Trump and his campaign colluded with a foreign power to win the election. We are still waiting to see if the Mueller report finds this information.
People don't like him because he criticizes Democrats and I understand that people want everyone to support the team, but there is a lot of shit to point out and it isn't just a "both sides" thing. He probably shouldn't go on Fox News or RT, even though he isn't invited on CNN or MSNBC or any of the network news broadcasts, but he does. That's a legitimate criticism, but there is a weird sentiment that he is somehow a right-wing partisan when it couldn't be further from the truth.
Also, I will step down now, because this is getting closer to the Maddow discussions from before. I await the results of the Mueller report. I hope Trump is pinned with a crime and he is removed from office to stop his shitty policies and toxic, dividing actions/words, but the press should be honest and held to a responsible standard.
I feel like there is a better chance of showing he obstructed justice based off the evidence we have seen through public statements etc.
Would just like to note that since the Justice Department's policy is that you can't indict a sitting president it would be a waste of time to recommend an indictment of Trump. Junior is a different matter and I don't know if the opinion of Mueller will be that perhaps Junior was a pawn in the Russian game without realizing it. Basically becoming an unwitting asset.
The report will hopefully still show that Trump was actively obstructing the investigation, lied multiple times about the nature of his personal relationships with Russia, and generally shows that at the very least his campaign was highly influenced by Russian interference, if not outright collusion. That would still raise concerns about his still current cozy relationship with Putin. How he may be aware that this happened and is now giving preferential treatment to the country that "helped" him secure the election.
Also let's not forget that the House and Senate both have their own investigations going. At least the House I'm sure will inevitably subpoena Mueller and his team to ask them questions about the investigation and what was going on behind the scenes, while also subpoenaing documents related to the report, if not the report itself from the Justice Department.
Even when Barr gives his briefing regarding what Mueller's conclusions were, this still ain't over. Barr certainly doesn't have any obligation to say anything other than potentially "Mr. Mueller has found that there is insufficient evidence to prove collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians" or something to the effect without going into details about what he DID find. Either things that could lead to further investigations or already have been turned over to organizations like SDNY, and so forth. He could potentially also skim over any allegations of obstruction by the President, or outlining the inconsistencies between what he's said to the public and what he's found.
The report will hopefully still show that Trump was actively obstructing the investigation, lied multiple times about the nature of his personal relationships with Russia, and generally shows that at the very least his campaign was highly influenced by Russian interference, if not outright collusion. That would still raise concerns about his still current cozy relationship with Putin. How he may be aware that this happened and is now giving preferential treatment to the country that "helped" him secure the election.
Also let's not forget that the House and Senate both have their own investigations going. At least the House I'm sure will inevitably subpoena Mueller and his team to ask them questions about the investigation and what was going on behind the scenes, while also subpoenaing documents related to the report, if not the report itself from the Justice Department.
Even when Barr gives his briefing regarding what Mueller's conclusions were, this still ain't over. Barr certainly doesn't have any obligation to say anything other than potentially "Mr. Mueller has found that there is insufficient evidence to prove collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians" or something to the effect without going into details about what he DID find. Either things that could lead to further investigations or already have been turned over to organizations like SDNY, and so forth. He could potentially also skim over any allegations of obstruction by the President, or outlining the inconsistencies between what he's said to the public and what he's found.
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