British pub chain bans mobiles, laptops and tablets from non-smoking areas

LL_Decitrig · Mar 29, 2019

Barry Sandwich said:
This is unenforcable because most establishments aren't going to harass customers and turn away business because of some bullshit "reasonable rule". Our consumer rights haven't been eroded to that extent.

The comparison with smoking doesn't fly because smoking indoors in public is illegal and a health risk.

I'm not comparing use of tablets to smoking. I agree that they may end up having to call the police if you won't leave when asked to do so. They decide who they will allow in their place, and as long as they're not discriminating against you unlawfully you have to leave when asked.

Atomic Playboy · Mar 29, 2019

Maintenance said:
Pubs are not allowed to play music or televisions, while there is also a zero tolerance on swearing.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It's like that Eddie Izzard joke about bars banning smoking. "No smoking in bars, and soon no drinking and no talking."

Napoleonthechimp · Mar 29, 2019

Katonix said:
Why they are going out of business?!

Because no one wants to talk to each other. They're not going to time travel back to the good old days, and when they attempt to people likely won't bother coming back.

travisbickle · Mar 29, 2019

Seik said:
So a pub where you cannot pick your phone, swear, watch TV and/or listen to music sounds really fun! :lol

I respect the ''Here we work ye ole ways'' mentality but this won't stick once the old guard dies and they'll want to lure the new generation in.

There were plenty of pubs like this only like 10 years ago in the uk. For pubs, music and tv licenses cost money, and no one really cared about WiFi when the iPhone had only just been released.

TemplaerDude · Mar 29, 2019

ILikeFeet said:
it's this board come to life. also a good reason to not go there

Are the prices like it's 1995?

Barry Sandwich · Mar 29, 2019

LL_Decitrig said:
I'm not comparing use of tablets to smoking. I agree that they may end up having to call the police if you won't leave when asked to do so. They decide who they will allow in their place, and as long as they're not discriminating against you unlawfully you have to leave when asked.

No business owner in their right mind is going to call the police to enforce such a rule. If I've ordered, or the meal is on the table, then I've entered into a contract with the restaurant - they can't ask me to leave and get paid for the food, so which is their priority? I suspect they're also opening themselves up to legal action.

How do you think the police in Manchester will react being called to these pubs to remove law-abiding customers because they're using smartphones? Unless it's a government-led ban this is unenforcable.

Deleted member 3010 · Mar 29, 2019

travisbickle said:
There were plenty of pubs like this only like 10 years ago in the uk. For pubs, music and tv licenses cost money, and no one really cared about WiFi when the iPhone had only just been released.

Yeah, I agree and understand that, but a lot of things changed in the last 10 years and this likely goes against the flow of what attracts people to go to a pub.

Who knows though, perhaps it can work for hipsters, IDK. :P

Lagamorph · Mar 29, 2019

And it's not like they even have cheap booze either.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 29, 2019

Barry Sandwich said:
No business owner in their right mind is going to call the police to enforce such a rule. If I've ordered, or the meal is on the table, then I've entered into a contract with the restaurant - they can't ask me to leave and get paid for the food, so which is their priority? I suspect they're also opening themselves up to legal action.

How do you think the police in Manchester will react being called to these pubs to remove law-abiding customers because they're using smartphones? Unless it's a government-led ban this is unenforcable.

These things do tend to be self-enforcing. Firstly, those who innocently break a rule are informed and asked to refrain. Those who persistently break the rule, particularly in an obnoxious manner, are warned and eventually barred. Staff will refuse to interact with a barred person, who will eventually have to leave or risk an unfriendly interaction with a police officer.

It doesn't make much difference why the customer is barred. Whether wearing scruffy clothes, swearing loudly enough to be overheard, or refusing to take your mobile phone calls outside, you can be barred at the manager's discretion.

Barry Sandwich · Mar 29, 2019

LL_Decitrig said:
These things do tend to be self-enforcing. Firstly, those who innocently break a rule are informed and asked to refrain. Those who persistently break the rule, particularly in an obnoxious manner, are warned and eventually barred. Staff will refuse to interact with a barred person, who will eventually have to leave or risk an unfriendly interaction with a police officer.

It doesn't make much difference why the customer is barred. Whether wearing scruffy clothes, swearing loudly enough to be overheard, or refusing to take your mobile phone calls outside, you can be barred at the manager's discretion.

It will only be self-enforcing if the public are on-board. They won't be, and the businesses will either quietly revoke the ban or rarely enforce it. Because ultimately they want to make money, and there is plenty of competition where people can go with their phones/tablets/laptops.

We're clearly looking at this from different perspectives, but I would be incensed if anyone approached me at a pub or restaurant and told me to put my phone away.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 29, 2019

Barry Sandwich said:
We're clearly looking at this from different perspectives, but I would be incensed if anyone approached me at a pub or restaurant and told me to put my phone away.

Then you'd leave and never come back. The product these particular people are selling cannot be created without excluding people who aren't even aware of its value.

Mavis · Mar 29, 2019

I see no issue with this, we have a similar rule at the dinner table. The kids friends come over and are like "WTF? You talk to each other at dinner?". If you don't like it then go elsewhere. People ignoring it and causing a scene despite knowing what may happen need to grow up.

Barry Sandwich · Mar 29, 2019

LL_Decitrig said:
Then you'd leave and never come back. The product these particular people are selling cannot be created without excluding people who aren't even aware of its value.

I'm aware of it's value, it's not something I believe can be enforced or engineered by exclusion.
And we're talking about a chain pub and Frankie & F'ing Benny's.

CherryWoodFuton · Mar 29, 2019

That's some lame shit

LL_Decitrig · Mar 29, 2019

Barry Sandwich said:
I'm aware of it's value, it's not something I believe can be enforced or engineered by exclusion.
And we're talking about a chain pub and Frankie & F'ing Benny's.

Do you sometimes want to take a dog into a pub? If so, what do you think happens after you are told you can't remain with the dog? How about young children in a restaurant? Same question.

travisbickle · Mar 29, 2019

Seik said:
Yeah, I agree and understand that, but a lot of things changed in the last 10 years and this likely goes against the flow of what attracts people to go to a pub.

Who knows though, perhaps it can work for hipsters, IDK. :P

There's an interesting dynamic with pubs. I mean are people really going for WiFi access and being able to watch YouTube? Or are they going for some nebulous idea of "atmosphere", which is easily lost if too many patrons are on their phones not talking and being lively.

Sobriquet · Mar 29, 2019

TheStebe said:
Can't wait for people to bring in their imacs and desktop pc's into the pubs

LAN party!

Barry Sandwich · Mar 29, 2019

I

LL_Decitrig said:
Do you sometimes want to take a dog into a pub? If so, what do you think happens after you are told you can't remain with the dog? How about young children in a restaurant? Same question.

I would never assume a pub is dog-friendly. But a dog presents issues tablets do not.
Same with kids.

I think it's funny you think this measure will achieve the "value" of creating a sociable atmosphere in a screen-free environment. Back in the early 00's a mate of mine would take his laptop to his local pub and nurse a pint whilst doing freelance work, and in no way was it considered anti-social amongst the locals. There was a great community atmosphere and he was very much a part of it.

As a side point the pub chain in question are making the link with the smoking ban by asking mobile users to gather with the smokers. There's no equivalence.

Finally, to the other guy: "no phones at the dinner table" is a low level dictatorship move. Let people do what they like, fucksake.

Muppet of a Man · Mar 29, 2019

ILikeFeet said:
it's this board come to life. also a good reason to not go there

This is great. I think more places should do this.

RedMercury · Mar 29, 2019

Well, I suppose that's their call if they want to do it, but I wouldn't go there. I wonder if they have older customers who always complain about those damn kids with their productivity tools haha

The Albatross · Mar 29, 2019

Secondspace said:
They're a real oddity, their bottled beer used to have a great reputation, but rather than being diminished they're completely forgotten. The pubs are cheap and traditional to the point of being old fashioned. It's all their own booze that they sell, which is unheard of these days.

Yeah, samuel smith has really dropped off stateside as well. 10-15 years ago they were considered one of the better imports... Used to love their Samuel Smith IPA, but none of their beers have changed in ... 20 years, and they're all still really old school.

You Are Viewtiful · Mar 29, 2019

ILikeFeet said:
it's this board come to life. also a good reason to not go there

belongs in the boomer comics thread.

Mendrox · Mar 29, 2019

Barry Sandwich said:
I'm aware of it's value, it's not something I believe can be enforced or engineered by exclusion.
And we're talking about a chain pub and Frankie & F'ing Benny's.

Uhm yes it can be easily enforced. If you are in my business and don't follow the rules then you get out of my business. Entitled customers like you are the worse "No I paid for my salad! I am a paying customer and I am the king now!" No. You are just someone and you get banned now from my shop/restaurant.

Deleted member 3010 · Mar 29, 2019

travisbickle said:
There's an interesting dynamic with pubs. I mean are people really going for WiFi access and being able to watch YouTube? Or are they going for some nebulous idea of "atmosphere", which is easily lost if too many patrons are on their phones not talking and being lively.

Both can happen and work, groups of people will go to be social and exchange while single customers can sip a drink while watching TV or the news on his/her phone. It doesn't have to be all black and white, options are seen under a better light than restrictions. That is unless you're aiming at a specific 'theme' for your business, like old school.

LL_Decitrig · Mar 30, 2019

Barry Sandwich said:
I

I would never assume a pub is dog-friendly. But a dog presents issues tablets do not.
Same with kids.

Well there you are, then. You can see why a publican may want to exclude certain activities, even certain people, that would be perfectly legal. Your personal evaluation of the situation happens to be compatible with that of a hypothetical publican in such cases.

Barry Sandwich said:
I think it's funny you think this measure will achieve the "value" of creating a sociable atmosphere in a screen-free environment.

I don't. But it's clear that at least one brewery believes it can play a part and has decided to take a risk in the hope of cultivating such an environment. Neither you nor I will be dragooned into their premises, and there must be thousands of other places to go in Greater Manchester, so it's fine and it won't adversely affect us.

Barry Sandwich said:
Finally, to the other guy: "no phones at the dinner table" is a low level dictatorship move. Let people do what they like, fucksake.

If we visit somebody's house and they insist that we remove our shoes in the porch, that's the same, isn't it? Damn and blast these people we've never met, who insist on having rules we disagree with in their own homes. Seriously?

Mammoth Jones · Mar 30, 2019

Pretentious bullshit. My friends and I always share photos when we catch up for a beer. Kid doing something new/cool. Lemme see. WOrking on a home project I'm interesting in, show me. There's more to using a phone than social media.

hordak said:
if you dont like it, go somewhere else?

but yeah i thought pubs were a place for you to be social? can you not be on instagram or twitter for an hour? if you really do need to make a call, text, check your email, etc, just go outside?

Why should I leave my table to read a fucking text? Or see a photo of my friend's 2 month old kid?

menacer · Mar 30, 2019

I have never heard of a pub chain in either the states or for this matter Europe but when you go to a pub you go with friends and drink and socialize.

Soap · Mar 30, 2019

menacer said:
I have never heard of a pub chain in either the states or for this matter Europe but when you go to a pub you go with friends and drink and socialize.

Yeah, and you can still do that while using a phone? I don't see the harm in using a phone, especially in the example above where w poster says they are sharing photos and videos - also I use my phone waiting for people to get back from the toilet. Pubs are supposed to be places to relax - some people may just want to nurse a pint in the corner, some people may be travelling for work and it's a place to relax and, yeah, a lot of people may want to chat.

joecanada · Mar 30, 2019

Barry Sandwich said:
Let people do what the fuck they want in a free country?

Smoking harms other people.
Using a tablet device does not.

If I was in a restaurant or pub and staff told me to put my phone or laptop away I would lose my shit at them.

And then you'd be kicked out for causing a scene and violating a private business policies . You can tell who grew up with a phone in hand itt they make it sound like using your phone is a human right .
I don't know if I'd like the place but I'm sure not going to cry about their private policies.

Bluelote · Mar 30, 2019

I would love a world without mobile phones, but this hardly makes business sense.

Cocolina · Mar 30, 2019

I don't see them banning newspapers or books, and plenty go to the pub to read. This is an "old man yells at cloud" policy used as marketing material.

TFGB · Mar 30, 2019

LL_Decitrig said:
I like the idea. There are plenty of other pubs.

Exactly.

If people don't like it they have the opportunity to spend their money elsewhere. This company are offering something different and I'm sure their venues will continue to be used not only by some of their regular clientele, but they may also acquire some new customers.

Good for them.

Baphomet · Mar 30, 2019

Those rule are lame but nothing to really complain about, I would just take my business elsewhere.

menacer · Mar 30, 2019

Soap said:
Yeah, and you can still do that while using a phone? I don't see the harm in using a phone, especially in the example above where w poster says they are sharing photos and videos - also I use my phone waiting for people to get back from the toilet. Pubs are supposed to be places to relax - some people may just want to nurse a pint in the corner, some people may be travelling for work and it's a place to relax and, yeah, a lot of people may want to chat.

I tend to agree that say on a business trip you might need to take a call or just relaxing in a pub and news comes a cousin just gave birth to her first daughter (hapoened to me over the phone at a bar stool) but other than that even if it means striking up a conversation with a stranger say there is a baseball game on and you talk about who you think has what it takes to make it to the playoffs, that is the art of interaction not taking a picture of what overpriced burger and fries you ordered and sharing it with friends.

Goodlifr · Mar 30, 2019

No idea why people just don't embrace technical change, rather than trying to fight it.

People want to go to pub and look at their phone? Why would this be an issue to anyone??

menacer · Mar 30, 2019

I mean it wasn't too long ago was it they banned smoking in pubs in Ireland and England, right?

Goodlifr · Mar 30, 2019

Went to one of these speakeasy bars a year or so ago. Few of us went first, rest of the group were joining later.
Owner had a go at me as I was messaging rest of the group to give them directions to this place.. "spoils the atmosphere" or something. We were the only ones in there and just got out and went somewhere else to meet friends.

gcwy · Mar 30, 2019

ILikeFeet said:
it's this board come to life. also a good reason to not go there

Incredibly pretentious and plain wrong. They really only want a certain group of people to come there.

Golden · Mar 30, 2019

menacer said:
I have never heard of a pub chain in either the states or for this matter Europe but when you go to a pub you go with friends and drink and socialize.

Its not like McDonald's. It is a pub chain in thst esch of their pubs only sells their beers, but beyond that there is no visual link between the pubs.
The beer is really cheap as well!

Cocolina · Mar 30, 2019

menacer said:
I mean it wasn't too long ago was it they banned smoking in pubs in Ireland and England, right?

That was regulation, and not just pubs

Stock · Mar 30, 2019

Is this the only or largest pub chain in the country? I don't understand getting upset over an establishment setting upfront ground rules for patrons. Not using a phone for an hour or two is not really that big of an ask.

TFGB · Mar 30, 2019

menacer said:
I mean it wasn't too long ago was it they banned smoking in pubs in Ireland and England, right?

12 years ago now. It wasn't too long after that when I quit. In a way it's a shame as the tobacco at least used to mask the aroma of stale piss and sweat in Wetherspoons.

Barry Sandwich · Mar 30, 2019

Mendrox said:
Uhm yes it can be easily enforced. If you are in my business and don't follow the rules then you get out of my business. Entitled customers like you are the worse "No I paid for my salad! I am a paying customer and I am the king now!" No. You are just someone and you get banned now from my shop/restaurant.

The rules a business enforces can be logical to prevent harm or inconvenience to other customers, or in this case, arbitary and imposing inconvenience on specific customers. You are there to serve salad, a customer pays you to provide a service, not to pass comment on their lifestyle or throw a "ban" around like you're some king.

LL_Decitrig said:
I don't. But it's clear that at least one brewery believes it can play a part and has decided to take a risk in the hope of cultivating such an environment. Neither you nor I will be dragooned into their premises, and there must be thousands of other places to go in Greater Manchester, so it's fine and it won't adversely affect us.
If we visit somebody's house and they insist that we remove our shoes in the porch, that's the same, isn't it? Damn and blast these people we've never met, who insist on having rules we disagree with in their own homes. Seriously?

"Play a part" in what? Increasing social conversation? I'm amazed a user of ResetERA would support such technophobic views. Bear in mind there was a rush at one point for pubs to provide wi-fi etc. to entice customers. The serious point is this is an anti-intellectual, anti-consumer, regressive stance. I personally don't think it will work, but we'll see.

joecanada said:
And then you'd be kicked out for causing a scene and violating a private business policies . You can tell who grew up with a phone in hand itt they make it sound like using your phone is a human right . I don't know if I'd like the place but I'm sure not going to cry about their private policies.

A business is declaring they are going to confront patrons for how they use their personal time in their business. This is a policy which restricts the personal freedoms of paying customers and customers should vote with their feet. Giving them verbal feedback isn't crying, it's a consumer right.

hateradio · Mar 30, 2019

I heard of a few places in LA that make you leave your phone at the door. One of these places in particular refuses to have an online presence, too. So it's "harder" to know where it is, because you have to talk to someone to know.

The interesting and over the top thing about that place is that they also don't have any "digital" music. All they play is on vinyl.

menacer · Mar 30, 2019

TFGB said:
12 years ago now. It wasn't too long after that when I quit. In a way it's a shame as the tobacco at least used to mask the aroma of stale piss and sweat in Wetherspoons.

I was never a native Irish but I do have family there and it was a big deal. Do you really want someone shouting over music next to you while drinking a beer on the phone just yammering about stupid shit on the phone that they can easily take outside.

Arkestry · Mar 30, 2019

Sam Smith's pubs are a fucking refuge, at least in London. No music, lots of seats, fairly inexpensive booze. You can go there and actually have a conversation with your buds instead of getting drowned out by shitty pop music, it's great.

Got no real problem with this, knowing the Sam Smith pubs I've been to, I'm pretty sure this rule is just so that if someone is being obnoxious with their device, they can get them to leave. Someone quietly reading a Kindle isn't going to have a problem.

PinkSpider · Mar 30, 2019

Great pub (cheap as fuck). Stupid rule. They won't enforce it in most pubs. I swear fairly often in my local and that's banned too.

menacer · Mar 30, 2019

So uh sounds like a great place. Like the TGI Fridays of England.

"In October 2017, the brewery issued a chain-wide ban on the use of profanity in its pubs. The "zero-tolerance" policy calls for employees to cut off service to customers who use offensive language. "

Kaede · Mar 30, 2019

As a Londoner I can confirm these pubs are great. Cheap good beer, the closest you can get to a spit and sawdust pub in the modern era in Central London. They thrive as a post work drink up location, no-one specifically goes there for a night out. There is literally nothing to get offended about here.

Duffking · Mar 30, 2019

What's with people pretending that people in bars just sit there on phones not talking? It's always struck me as one of the weirder things to lie about.

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